Do I have a saddle problem? Recommendations?

[trista]

I ride my road bike just about every morning, generally 20 miles at a time, but sometimes 16. My regular 20-mile route is 1 h, 15 min. So that's usually the longest I stay on the bike at a time. For now, anyway, I don't have much more time than that to ride.

I am using the stock saddle. It seemed fine. I am generally fine in any kind of shorts - even unpadded, though that's not my preference. So anyway, no real problems.

But, I do have a very high pain/discomfort tolerance, so I thought, after reading a few saddle threads, maybe I should check the size. Plus, my lack of problems could just be because I'm not spending a lot of time in the saddle in a single ride. What if I wanted to go on a long ride - I may be just miserable.

Sometimes the pressure on the soft tissue is enough for me to notice it. And I don't like noticing things - I don't like to be aware of anything when I excercise except for the task in front of me. I do shift around, a LOT. I shift back, and back, and back... I scoot, I wiggle.

Using my kids play-doh, my sit bones measured 133 mm from center to center.

I think my saddle may be too small. I can't tell how wide this saddle is, because it curves down on the sides and it is very squishy. The sides give easily with just my thumb.

I do seem to like the shape. I'm considering trying the Terry Butterfly Ti Saddle, but I'm up for suggestions.

Here is the saddle, with pennies depicting where my sitbones hit (highly scientific):


11630

11628

11629

[trista]

damn, 37 views and no one has advice....

maybe if i rephrase the question....

my sit bones are:
17 cm on the very outside to outside
82mm on the very inside to inside
and 133mm from center to center

Would I be best to start with a 143 or 155 saddle?

[Thorn]

Ok..I'll bite...I'd definitely be looking wider than that one. You're not sitting on the flat bit--it is already rounding down which is going to put more pressure where pressure shouldn't be.

Go for a saddle where those pennies end up centered on the flat part.

[KnottedYet]

Yup, I recommend the same thing.

[OakLeaf]

I would start with a 155 (since you're looking at Spec' line), or generally something 150'ish. 143 sounds too narrow, and yeah, what you're riding is definitely too narrow for you.

The good news is that you're obviously sitting well far back on that saddle, and you haven't described any butt-crease issues, so the shape of it seems to be working well for you. It does look pretty T-shaped from the pictures, so Specialized saddles are probably a good place to start.

[trista]

Thank you. I wasn't sure between the 155 and the 143 so that helps a lot. I would really like to try the Ruby, but couldn't find it in stock anywhere in the color I want, so in the meantime I'm trying the 155 mm Terry Butterfly Ti.

[dianne_1234]

damn, 37 views and no one has advice....

maybe if i rephrase the question....

my sit bones are:
17 cm on the very outside to outside
82mm on the very inside to inside
and 133mm from center to center

Would I be best to start with a 143 or 155 saddle?

Ischial Tuberosity Spacing among women:
5th percentile 112 mm
50th percentile 130 mm
95th percentile 148 mm

I guess I'll dissent with some of the other posters a little and suggest you might already be on (nearly?) the right saddle. Here's my reasoning:

1. The Bontrager R1 saddle that come stock on Trek's WSD bikes nowadays is their mid-width shell, which is 150mm. It looks like that's what you have. (The width should be molded into the plastic shell on one of the rail sockets in the back.) Bontrager aimed that width at the 50% percentile.

2. You measured your sit bones center to center at 133mm. That's only 3mm more than 50% percentile, which is 130mm for women.

Based on 1 and 2, I'd say the width is about right.

3. You have no major discomfort issues.

So it might not be too bad!

That said, the stock Bontrager R1 saddle is a bit squishy. If you generally like it in other ways (IMHO it's fairly T shaped, it has a groove in the middle, etc.) then consider trying one of the Bontrager aftermarket versions of this saddle. They're called inForm. The inForm R is a little firmer than yours, and the inForm RL slightly firmer still.

[OakLeaf]

Yeah, maybe we should back up a bit ...

I don't think "high discomfort tolerance" would let you tolerate what many of us have experienced with too-narrow saddles, i.e. labia that look like they've been roadrashed after every ride :eek:

If the pennies are sitting where the very outside of your sitbones fall on the saddle, and most of your weight is a centimeter or two inboard, you're probably fine with that width. Maybe a different cutout or a slightly different shape.

How did you determine where to place the pennies? Are they placed your measured 133 mm apart? (If so, that's no 150 mm saddle.) If you make a tracing of your butt-print and lay it over the saddle, do the centers of the ovals fall where the pennies are, or closer to the center?

Do you feel like your weight is on your sitbones, but the saddle is just too high in front for your soft parts? Maybe a tilt adjustment could help, or a saddle with a deeper channel or larger cut-out.

I also can't tell from looking at those pictures whether the whole area between the trim in the middle is a channel? So that the potential seating area is very small?

[trista]

No, I'm definitely not getting any roadrash. The pennies are placed 133mm apart and exactly where my pointy bones hit. I know this because, well, I'm there every day pretty much ;), and also because if I put my buttprint there, the pennies are in the middle of the ovals. My sitbones hit at the very very inside edges of the saddle (the plate inside).... if it were a few mm narrower, I'd be off the sides, but yes, the weight is on my sitbones. However, the saddle is so squishy that there is still a great deal of weight also on my softparts. I think a cutout would help, or a firmer saddle.

Keeping the current saddle is now, not an option. I just noticed today it has a hole in it :(. It must have happened during my last fall and somehow I missed it :(. So now I HAVE to get something new.

Oakleaf, the channel extends to about 1 inch before the cut-in at rear of the seat.

It is 150mm, I just measured the plate underneath, but because the padding tapers in on the sides, it gives the illusion of being smaller.

Thank you Dianne, I put the inForms on my list of saddles to try. I would never have thought about that. And yes, I do seem to like the T-shape

[OakLeaf]

Okay, I was at an expo today where they had some Trek WSD bikes you could sit on and try, and I'm pretty sure they had the same saddle.

It's considerably narrower than my 155 Jett.

My sit bones were on it, but just barely. Probably about where yours are.

Get something a little wider.

[dianne_1234]

Okay, I was at an expo today where they had some Trek WSD bikes you could sit on and try, and I'm pretty sure they had the same saddle.

It's considerably narrower than my 155 Jett.

My sit bones were on it, but just barely. Probably about where yours are.

Get something a little wider.

My 140mm sit bones like the 160mm inForm better than the 150, and the 155 Jett better than the 143. So I think we agree. :-)

Not saying the OP needs to stick with 150; as KnottedYet points out, extra width isn't necessarily bad if other aspects of the saddle's design make it okay.

[trista]

I put on the Butterfly Ti and rode 16 miles this morning. Didn't like it. My butt fit fine on it - it was the cutout that I didn't like and irritated me. The stock saddle fits me better - I think I like the channel better than the cutout. So, I'm going to give the inForm a try, probably the R first, then the RL if that's still too squishy. I'll go with the 150 since the next step up is 160 and i think that would be too big for me.

[trista]

Not thread-jacking :)

The Madone came with a Bontrager R1 150 mm, and according to Diane, all the WSD Treks come with that saddle. I definitely don't hate it (esp. now comparing it to the Terry Butterfly, the R1 fits me much better). In fact if the R1 wasn't so squishy I imagine it'd be perfect for me. So I'm pretty excited about the inForm, which as Diane pointed out is the aftermarket version of that saddle. It is on the way and I'll post how I like it when i get a chance to test it out.

ETA: here's a blog post that a bike shop guy posted about the inForm that I thought was interesting: http://www.bikegallery.com/blog/2009/product-review-bontrager-inform-saddles/

[dianne_1234]

I just looked at a picture of the Bontrager Inform and it looks pretty nice to me:)

Question: can anyone tell me what Bontrager that comes stock on Treks everyone hates? What about that saddle hurts. A LBS carries a lot of Bontrager saddles, and I can't even look at them without hurting after everything I've heard here. (If this is thread-jacking then maybe I should post separately, just asking).

Not fouund on this current Bontrager saddle web page:
http://bontrager.com/products/components/saddles

Maybe one of these older "Select FIT" models?
http://treknology3.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=406&Itemid=160

[trista]

I got the inForm last night and took it out for a few miles this morning. LOVE IT. I can't believe how perfect it fits & feels. I'm anxious to take it out for some longer rides. It's the same size & shape as the stock saddle but much firmer, so I'm not squishing into the middle. So the channel is actually effective. I really like it a lot - so far it seems to be just what I was looking for. Thanks for the great advice!

[ny biker]

I tried the Inform RL a couple of years ago, and found the nose to be very comfortable but the overall shape didn't work for me. I'm currently trying the Evoke RL, which is designed for mountain biking/more upright riding. It is a much better shape for me and is very similar to the shape of my old worn-out saddle. However the indentation in the Evoke's nose (a bigger indentation than the Inform) might be a problem for me over long rides. I'll know more in 24 hours since I'm doing 70 miles tomorrow morning.

If the Evoke doesn't work out, I will probably keep it for my mountain bike, since the saddle on that bike is also wearing out, and try the Affinity when it becomes available in late August. The Affinity has a similar shape to the Evoke and is also intended for a more upright riding position, but is considered a road bike saddle so I'm hoping the nose padding will be closer to that of the original Inform.

If the Affinity doesn't work, I'm not sure what I'll try next. Specialized is out since they all have cut-outs.

BTW I think the Affinity is the new stock saddle on some Trek bikes. My LBS manager just got a new Madone and he said it came with an Affinity.

[nscrbug]

I tried the Inform RL a couple of years ago, and found the nose to be very comfortable but the overall shape didn't work for me. I'm currently trying the Evoke RL, which is designed for mountain biking/more upright riding. It is a much better shape for me and is very similar to the shape of my old worn-out saddle. However the indentation in the Evoke's nose (a bigger indentation than the Inform) might be a problem for me over long rides. I'll know more in 24 hours since I'm doing 70 miles tomorrow morning.

If the Evoke doesn't work out, I will probably keep it for my mountain bike, since the saddle on that bike is also wearing out, and try the Affinity when it becomes available in late August. The Affinity has a similar shape to the Evoke and is also intended for a more upright riding position, but is considered a road bike saddle so I'm hoping the nose padding will be closer to that of the original Inform.

If the Affinity doesn't work, I'm not sure what I'll try next. Specialized is out since they all have cut-outs.

BTW I think the Affinity is the new stock saddle on some Trek bikes. My LBS manager just got a new Madone and he said it came with an Affinity.

Hmmm...that Affinity saddle looks interesting. I may have to stop by my local Trek dealer to take a closer look at it. I'm currently riding a Specialized Toupe 155, which is "okay" for the moment, but I'm always looking for something better. Even though I do require a cut-out, I wouldn't mind trying out that Affinity since it does look to have a deep enough center channel. Plus I love the black/white look of the RXL version.

[ny biker]

Hmmm...that Affinity saddle looks interesting. I may have to stop by my local Trek dealer to take a closer look at it. I'm currently riding a Specialized Toupe 155, which is "okay" for the moment, but I'm always looking for something better. Even though I do require a cut-out, I wouldn't mind trying out that Affinity since it does look to have a deep enough center channel. Plus I love the black/white look of the RXL version.

You might want to call the shop first -- I asked at my LBS last Saturday and they said they would have it in stock at the end of August.

One thing I'm pondering is how you decide how much padding you want. I think the different versions of all these saddles (RXL vs RL vs R) vary largely in the amount of padding, and I don't think I've ever read anything about how to decide when you have too much or when you don't have enough.

[dianne_1234]

One thing I'm pondering is how you decide how much padding you want. I think the different versions of all these saddles (RXL vs RL vs R) vary largely in the amount of padding, and I don't think I've ever read anything about how to decide when you have too much or when you don't have enough.

I think you're right ny biker - amount of padding seems a main variable.

For me, the less padding the better (helps maintain clearance under my pubic bone!), until my sit bones hurt. Then I want more padding! :D

[trista]

I had trouble deciding how much padding to go with on the inForm, and decided like Dianne, the less padding the better unless it hurts. So I went w/ the RL and figured I could exchange it for the softer R if needed. Plus I wanted a white & blue saddle to match my bike and the R only comes in black :o.

Rode another 20 miles on it this afternoon and OMG I could not be happier. Also, when i put it on, I put it an inch further back from where my other saddle was. It seems perfect

So the padding is great for me, on the RL. It's a firm seat but not crazy hard. I really, really like it.

[kermit]

Hey Trista, are you still happy with the RL? I am considering trying one. I measured at 150 on the Specialized butt-o-meter, have you ever measured with it? I don't know if I should go with the 150 or the 160? I should probably go see my friend Rob at the Trek dealer. How much do you feel the sides of the indent? I have a saddle with a large cutout now, but am getting a little chafing and wondering if the cutout is the cause? Thanks.

[tzvia]

It seems that I'm not the only one who loves that RL/RXL 'Unisex' Inform. I think they changed the look a little, as Trek had a blow out sale on the 2010 model at a local LBS. I picked up two RXLs for 50 bucks each. They ran out, or I would have ordered more. The first one I bought over a year ago cost me 150 bucks.

Muirenn- I think the saddles from Bontrager that aren't so hot are the NON Inform models, those come on many of the Trek bikes like the Bontrager R that came on my brother's Fuel EX8. He hated that saddle and it took some convincing for him to buy an Inform RL to test out. Well he loves it and now has several. Some women here (like myself) can't stand the thick padded WSD ones; I think Bontrager goes over the top on that foam crap they fill saddles with. The saddles like http://bontrager.com/model/07136 have almost a hammock affect, the shell gives a little bit almost like suspension but it's firmer where my sit-bones are, and the center is a bit softer (can't stand cutouts). Hard to explain, but it absorbs a lot of pounding without transmitting it to my rear, all while looking like a nice racing saddle and not a beach cruiser seat. It's also lightweight. I love this saddle (in case you haven't noticed :D.) After decades of pain from all the saddles I have tried, to find a saddle that just disappears under me is awesome.