Inclines, Hills and shifting [Archive] - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

schnitzle

07-16-2010, 08:47 AM

Hi! It's been a while since I posted, sorry. I'm blaming it on school, but also on being lazy ;) (oh! and on the almost constant rain until July! Yeah, that's the ticket!)

So, I finally went for my first "big" (for me) trail ride yesterday and it was great! However I don't know how to best get up inclines and hills. I have a Jamis Citizen 1 with 7 gears. Originally I had thought that I was supposed to shift into HIGHER gears to go up a hill. That was pretty funny! Now I know to be in a lower gear so I'm spinning more, but I'm still confused how that helps.
The friend I was riding with has a 1 speed, so she couldn't offer much advice.

My fitness level is pretty bad, and I'm hauling somewhere around 250lbs + bike up these gentle inclines and hills, so it's quite challenging for me. But in a good way!

Should I ideally be standing to pedal up hills?

Sorry for the dumbo questions :rolleyes::p

Owlie

07-16-2010, 08:56 AM

I don't stand. It hurts and the bike feels wobbly.

Spinning in a low gear means you're taxing your cardiovascular system rather than your quads. Most people's muscles fatigue before their lungs do. Also, it's much easier on your knees.

And they're not dumb questions. :)

schnitzle

07-16-2010, 09:01 AM

Thanks Owlie! Yes I'm afraid I might fall off if I stand to ride, at least at this point. That's what my 1 speed friend does though so I thought maybe I should have too? It makes sense about the cardio lasting longer than the quads. I ended up walking up half of the last hill because my muscles just didn't have anything more to give.

maillotpois

07-16-2010, 10:18 AM

Yes I'm afraid I might fall off if I stand to ride, at least at this point. That's what my 1 speed friend does though so I thought maybe I should have too?

Your 1 speed friend doesn't have any choice. You do. :)

annielynn

07-16-2010, 10:35 AM

Don't stand up. It raises you heart rate up and that isn't necessary. Start into the incline gently. Keep spinning until it becomes too hard then shift down. Do this until you are in your largest gear and don't have anymore. Then just try and keep an even cadence and keep going.

I had to climb but I am training for a big hilly event in September. So I am learning a lot about shifting and candence. Keep it up and you will be a climber in no time! :)

schnitzle

07-16-2010, 08:02 PM

Your 1 speed friend doesn't have any choice. You do. :)

True, true haha!

Don't stand up. It raises you heart rate up and that isn't necessary. Start into the incline gently. Keep spinning until it becomes too hard then shift down. Do this until you are in your largest gear and don't have anymore. Then just try and keep an even cadence and keep going.

I had to climb but I am training for a big hilly event in September. So I am learning a lot about shifting and candence. Keep it up and you will be a climber in no time!

So if I'm on say 3 when I see the hill coming, get momentum, keep spinning as far as I can then when it gets too hard to go 2 (faster spinning, less...er is it called "mashing"?) and go to 1 if nessesary, or go up to 4, 5 etc? Sorry, I'm trying to make sure I understand correctly :)

What hilly event are you doing in September? Sounds like a good challenge!

Owlie

07-16-2010, 08:16 PM

I cannot remember for the life of me which way the gears are numbered. (I want to say the smallest is 1 and it works up to bigger ones?)

Say you're in a middle gear approaching the hill. Depending on how steep the hill is and your fitness level you could either a) try to make it partly up the hill and shift into a larger* cog (easier) when you feel yourself running out of steam, or b) shift into the larger cog BEFORE you get to the hill (it puts less strain on your chain, then shift into still-larger cogs as necessary.

Mashing is exactly as it sounds--"mashing" at the pedals is just applying tons of force to them to try to get you up the hill. You're taxing your muscles there.

Regardless of numbering, just make sure it gets easier!

*not necessarily number. I said above that I don't remember HOW they're numbered!

Road Viexn

07-16-2010, 09:10 PM

One thing that I remember when I am climbing it to let my gears climb for me. I have not been climbing long at all. I am a heavier ride too. I try to remember when I am in a climb to sit a little farther back on my saddle, keep my breathing under control, get in my lower gears and let them do the work. I may climb slower than most, but I can actually feel my bike and body working together. I don't get as tired and can last up most of the climbs I have been doing. 6-9% grades. Nothing huge but I am working towards bigger climbs each time I do something harder.

makbike

07-17-2010, 12:23 PM

Learn to anticipate the hills - set up in a gear that will allow to spin. As the hill's slope increases and/or your legs begin to talk shift to a larger cog (move the chain in toward the bike frame). You don't want to mash your way up a hill it will take a toll on your knees not to mention your spirits. Start with some smaller/easier hills and practice on them until you feel like you have a good read of them then move to a slightly bigger hill and practice your shifting and anticipating. Really half the battle in climbing is learning to anticipate the terrain and utilizing your gears to the max.

Hope this helps.

KnottedYet

07-17-2010, 12:27 PM

As you go up hill, keep shifting into larger and larger cogs in the back (less and less pressure needed to turn the pedals) until there just aren't any cogs left.

Then get off the bike and walk.

I've met lots of nice people while walking my bike up hills. It's a nice break. Take a drink or two of water, make a phone call to your beloved, sing a song, admire some gardens.

Life is good.
Ride your bike.

tctrek

07-17-2010, 12:39 PM

Then get off the bike and walk.

I've met lots of nice people while walking my bike up hills. It's a nice break. Take a drink or two of water, make a phone call to your beloved, sing a song, admire some gardens.

+1 on that! My problem is I ride 3 mph better than I walk up hills. So, I have mastered sitting up, gripping the bars and mozying up the hill at speeds slower than most people walk!

RolliePollie

07-17-2010, 03:25 PM

+1 on that! My problem is I ride 3 mph better than I walk up hills. So, I have mastered sitting up, gripping the bars and mozying up the hill at speeds slower than most people walk!

This made me laugh because today I was trying to catch up with some people walking up a hill a ways up ahead of me, but at about 3.8 mph, I could not for the life of me catch up to them. It made me seriously consider getting off and walking. Although it is hard to walk in cycling shoes.

Back to the shifting thing...I like to spin fast and easy instead of trying to stay in a harder gear. And I can't stand up and pedal...don't know why but I just can't do it. I find that I make it up the hill in about the same time whether I am spinning or mashing. And mashing is too hard and it hurts my knees. All in all though, any way you get to the top is fine. Walking the bike or riding the bike...it's getting to the top that counts.

Catrin

07-17-2010, 04:17 PM

Today I rode on "real" hills in southern Indiana - I was in the granny gear more than the entire time that I've been riding! Ok, so that has only been 7 months but work with me here :)

I only had to walk one of the hills - it was on a detour I wound up making... I could have ridden the remaining couple of hundred feet but I was going 2.9 mph and could no longer hold anything remotely resembling a line. It was a narrow twisty road and I was having to weave back and forth in the lane to keep going. I pictured a pickup truck barreling up the hill...and walked it to the top :o

My "detour" kept me from climbing the 1.5 mile hill that I was told about, but there certainly were some pretty strong hills on my detour - though probably not the same.

WolfGirl

07-17-2010, 05:18 PM

I'm not enjoying the hill thing at all this summer, and I don't think I know what "spinning" actually is. I tend to ride at whatever gear allows me to cruise along pretty easily and quickly; I like speed with reasonable effort. But I was wondering about my approach a couple months ago when I happened alongside a woman going about my pace, but her pedals were going around a lot faster than mine. This was on roughly a flat bit for maybe 10 seconds total where we kept abreast (until the urge came over me and I pulled ahead :D). My question is, am I doing it "wrong"? Should I be aiming for more spinning in a lower (easier, whatever) gear than pushing my muscles harder force-wise against the pedals? What IS spinning?

Which gets me back to the hills thing; I'm wondering if I aim for more spinning, if it might help me with hills somehow? I have a commute to work that's less than a mile and a half, but on the way home it's almost entirely uphill, and a fairly steep hill at that. I was slogging my way home in the lowest gear the other day when some guy on a road bike (mine's a flat-bar road bike) CRUISED past me up the hill and away. I'd have thrown my pannier at him if he'd not been in the next county by that time. Am I just so out of shape? I mean, I'm not exactly lean and mean right now, but...really? :confused: What am I doing wrong?

tctrek

07-17-2010, 05:21 PM

I suck on hills, but I know that the only way to get better at hills is to ride hills. Experiment with gears and cadence that work for you. Figure out how to get up the hill without blowing up your heart rate too much. I used to attack every hill, now I mozy up the hills and live to ride another day.

Crankin

07-18-2010, 09:29 AM

Yes, if you practice spinning (using a higher cadence as you described the person you saw) on flats, it will be easier to climb doing this. It works for me and while I can often drop people on climbs, I think it's time to work on a little endurance... today a group of 3 pretty fast riders passed me at the bottom of a small hill I am very familiar with. I decided to catch them, which was not that hard, as they slowed more than I imagined they would. I hung with them until the top, but they shot away from me when they got to the flat. Since I was riding with people, I didn't try, but I am basically lazy when I get on the flats.
Spinning really does save your knees.

katherine

07-18-2010, 02:00 PM

If you're riding on trails, you might find this helpful.
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=38316

kcmpls

07-19-2010, 06:31 PM

Last spring I was 263 pounds and couldn't get up hills very well at all. I ended up walking a lot of them. I'm down to about 247 and, with practice, I'm flying up hills.

Well, I'm flying up some hills. I did have to walk up one this weekend.

But practice is the key. Downshifting is good, but it won't make up for endurance. What I did was make sure there was at least one big hill in every ride I took. I'd get the bike in a hard to pedal gear and get up speed before I hit the hill, then I'd slowly downshift until I either hit the top or got off and walked.

Catrin

07-20-2010, 02:33 AM

I certainly got a LOT of practice on the club GT ride Saturday - the one that I got separated from and was lost for a time. (Grand Touring rides aren't marked). In that part of Indiana there is no flat ground, it is either up or down :D

One of the hills I found on my "detour" was a bit*h, it seemed like I was climbing forever - though I am sure it wasn't longer than 7 or 8 minutes - and then it got steeper for the last couple of hundred feet. At that point my speed was down between 2.9-3 mph and I could no longer hold anything remotely like a line.

The only way I could keep going was to weave back and forth in the lane and I was in the lowest gear I have. I got to thinking about a truck barreling up behind me on that narrow twisty road and chose to walk the remaining 100 feet or so. I am pleased that was the only time I had to walk in 3+ hours of riding - I don't care how slow I was going uphill most of that time.

My assumption is that this was a strength issue - the entire purpose for my going south to ride is to find my hill-climbing legs.

In this kind of situation, is this where standing would be helpful? I am NOT doing that yet... but we get stronger by staying in our saddle, yes?

Veronica

07-20-2010, 04:52 AM

My assumption is that this was a strength issue - the entire purpose for my going south to ride is to find my hill-climbing legs.

In this kind of situation, is this where standing would be helpful? I am NOT doing that yet... but we get stronger by staying in our saddle, yes?

Staying in the saddle does not necessarily make you stronger. It does keep your heart rate down.

Veronica

Catrin

07-20-2010, 05:04 AM

Staying in the saddle does not necessarily make you stronger. It does keep your heart rate down.

Veronica

I literally can't stand on the bike yet - though I am getting to where I can brace myself and raise my butt a little. I tried to stand on the trainer :eek: it did not work well, it felt awfully unstable and it was on the trainer! Of course I know it can't feel the same as on the spinning bike, but didn't expect it to feel quite that unstable.

Cait

07-20-2010, 09:55 AM

[QUOTE=Catrin;521924]Today I rode on "real" hills in southern Indiana - I was in the granny gear more than the entire time that I've been riding! Ok, so that has only been 7 months but work with me here :)QUOTE]

Any suggestions on routes with good hills? I've never ridden southern Indiana before but I'm doing the Hilly Hundred this year and need some practice.

Veronica

07-20-2010, 10:01 AM

I literally can't stand on the bike yet - though I am getting to where I can brace myself and raise my butt a little. I tried to stand on the trainer :eek: it did not work well, it felt awfully unstable and it was on the trainer! Of course I know it can't feel the same as on the spinning bike, but didn't expect it to feel quite that unstable.

What do you mean "brace yourself"? Are you trying to use your arms to help you stand?

Veronica

Crankin

07-20-2010, 10:12 AM

I also could not stand until I had been riding 3-4 years. And I still can't get myself up on a very steep climb, which is why I spin up. I lose so much power if I stand, I am not sure it's worth it. I do stand sometimes on shorter, easier climbs, to change position and rest my back. I guess I am just weak, despite all of the stuff I do!
Catrin, I know what you mean about the trainer. I find it feels very weird and almost unsafe. I have to put it in such a hard gear to avoid that feeling that my cadence plummets.

Catrin

07-20-2010, 10:17 AM

What do you mean "brace yourself"? Are you trying to use your arms to help you stand?

Veronica

I am unsure - I think that I am more "bracing" my legs - and am only trying to raise my butt a little. Will pay closer attention the next time I do this. I WANT to ride tonight, but am tired and my legs are telling me it is time to rest them...

[QUOTE=Catrin;521924]Today I rode on "real" hills in southern Indiana - I was in the granny gear more than the entire time that I've been riding! Ok, so that has only been 7 months but work with me here :)QUOTE]

Any suggestions on routes with good hills? I've never ridden southern Indiana before but I'm doing the Hilly Hundred this year and need some practice.

I only just made my first trip to Brown/Batholomew Counties on Saturday with the CIBA ride. There are CIBA group rides that head south (next one is July 31) that you might want to check out - I am looking forward to this ride :)

I am told the hills in Bartholomew County are better for training than Brown County - but I am a pretty new cyclist. I bet that the Bloomington Bicycle Club has maps on their site - I just haven't had a chance to check.

indysteel

07-20-2010, 11:30 AM

I only just made my first trip to Brown/Batholomew Counties on Saturday with the CIBA ride. There are CIBA group rides that head south (next one is July 31) that you might want to check out - I am looking forward to this ride :)

I am told the hills in Bartholomew County are better for training than Brown County - but I am a pretty new cyclist. I bet that the Bloomington Bicycle Club has maps on their site - I just haven't had a chance to check.

Catrin, just a head's up that the route on July 31st isn't hilly. It's more scenic than anything, with just a small hill or two.

To answer Cait's question, check out CIBA's weekend ride calendar. Almost any ride that starts in, or travels to, southern Johnson County, Bartholomew, Morgan or Brown County will have hills. A few upcoming rides that comes to mind are the Mann Road Meander, the Bear, and Max's Mystique Menagerie. Earlier in the year, look for JAWS, Crankin' around Cordy, and the Wall.

The Bloomington Bicycle Club offers rides almost every weekend. Most, if not all, are hilly. Bloomington Parks Deparment is also offering a ride called the Brown County Hills Challenge the first weekend in October.

From my own experience, Brown County's hills are the toughest. Some are downright cruel. Do not be surprised if you have to walk some of them; they have grades in excess of 15%. Bartholomew County's hills are slightly kinder and gentler, but there are exceptions to that. I've climbed a few nasty ones there as well. There are a few hills in Indianapolis, mostly on the northwest side, in and near Eagle Creek Park. CIBA rides that start off of Lafayette Road (usually from the Fishback Academy) typically travel over some of them. There are a few hills near Fort Ben, too.

Remember that what goes up, has to come down. You will have some fast and steep descents with speeds that, if left unchecked, can exceed 40 mph.

You might find some routes on mapmyride.com. Just type in Martinsville, Columbus, Bloomington and the like and see what comes up. Check this out, too: http://www.rsdesign.info/gt_maps.html

The Dogwood and Summertime Hill rides are very nice (and hilly).

Cait

07-20-2010, 12:20 PM

Thanks for all the info, it is very helpful. I've been wanting to do more CIBA rides, just have to make the time. As for the 31st, I already planned on doing the Great Greenway Tour. Its my first time and I'm super excited, hope it goes well :)

schnitzle

07-21-2010, 03:00 PM

Wow so much good information! Thanks everyone!

Congrats on the cycling and weightloss kcmpls :D I've been reading your thread about commuting to work. I'm excited to see how things go for you on Tuesday!

Muirenn, that is a fantastic article. Thanks :D

I have to get out and practice so I can bug you guys with more questions. heh heh

OakLeaf

07-21-2010, 06:50 PM

Catrin

07-22-2010, 02:37 AM

Catrin, I wouldn't necessarily try standing until you've mastered clipless.

It can be done (you see little kids doing it all the time), but there's always the chance your foot will slip.

JMO, and others may disagree.

Good point - I hadn't considered this.

I am still not quite ready to try clipless again yet. I do like Knotted's advice to someone in another thread about getting a nice long pedal wrench and learning how to use it. When I am finally ready to try it again I think it help in the confidence department to know that I have the ability to change pedals without paying/asking someone else to do it for me.

On a positive note, I visited my favorite local park last night for intervals and to practice on the major hill it has. Apparently my body learned something from all of the hills in southern Indiana Saturday. It was easier to climb the steepest parts of the hill, and went faster down hill than I have in the past. Not saying that the fast boys and gals weren't still passing me going up the hill - sure they were - but my body felt much better and my speed was a little higher. All good!

Owlie

07-22-2010, 05:21 AM

You know, I'm starting to think I'm living in the wrong place if I want to keep riding...

lizbinsocali

07-26-2010, 08:56 PM

Glad I saw this thread. I just joined a cycling club and they have lots of great rides on the weekends with plenty of hills. And honestly, if I'm riding by myself, I just won't do them!! Yesterday, on our club ride, we went up a canyon road in Malibu, CA. It took me TWO HOURS to climb that sucker since my ave speed was between 4-5 mph (and sometimes even 3.5!) and the stretch of road was about 10 miles long. Whew!! And yea, I did have to stop a few times and it was hard, but I DID IT!! It has motivated me to take on more hills, even by myself. So I appreciate all the advice and tips here!

Will be doing my first organized century ride in about 3 weeks and there will be some climbing although not as much as what I did yesterday!

Happy climbing everyone!
Liz

schnitzle

07-26-2010, 09:50 PM