"Eating animals", about factory farming

[lph]

I just picked up this book out of random curiosity. It's about eating meat, a little about cultural and historical reasons, but mostly about how meat is produced in the US today. It's not a case for vegetarianism, but it is a case against factory farms. (And for "family farms").

And I've got to say I'm appalled :eek: I won't go into details, but the writer has hardly one positive thing to say about factory farming, except maybe that the meat is cheap and plentiful.

I think conditions are better in Norway, but to be honest I don't know much about it. This book will have me checking closer, though. I'm comfortable with eating meat, but not with causing massive amounts of suffering for it, or a disproportionally large ecological footprint.

I don't want to start any flame wars here, but it seems there are a fair amount of vegetarians and some farmers here. Anyone read this book? Anyone have an opinion they'd like to voice? I'd be interested to hear the choices some of you have made.

[bmccasland]

There was a TV documentary, or maybe it was a movie, that made it to the small box, on a similar vein. Definitely made one think about where your meat came from. And in the U.S. some of the factory farms also recruit labor south of the border, then are *shocked* when the same workers get busted for being here illegally.

I can buy family farmed meat at my farmer's market, IF I make it to market. I generally don't buy my meat there, but I do buy my milk from the market. I know one local grocery chain carries the smaller dairy products, so if I miss market I can get my milk at the grocery. I ought to check to see if they get some of their meat locally too.

Having family farmed food available at local grocery stores is going to help the farmers stay in business. Not everyone will go out of their way to find farmer's markets, or will have schedules that permit them to get to the market on the specific day. Mega-marts aren't as willing to buy local, but the smaller chains can. Then it's up to us consumers to support them.

[KnottedYet]

I buy local grass-fed beef even though it's 2-3x more expensive than factory farmed beef flown from miles away.

I did grow up in farm country, we ate meat from animals we raised (and named, often as not). The different conditions animals and the workers experience are certainly at the forefront of my mind when I choose which critters to eat.

Similarly with fish. Salmon used to come up the creek by my mom's house to spawn. It was great to watch them leaping the falls and spy on them resting in the quiet pools. Until the county decided to put in a man-made gated "salmon spawning habitat" down stream where the water was slow and sluggish and exposed to eagles, and that "habitat" killed off all the salmon. Now you have to go to the river to see a salmon. Not sure what the bears are eating now instead of the salmon that used to come up the creek. Well-meaning city folks sure can make a mess of things.

Well, that was kind of a rant on salmon environments, but what I meant to say is I will pay extra for local wild-caught Pacific salmon rather than buy the cheaper farm raised Atlantic salmon that have been fed dye to make their flesh pink.

And if I can't find "good" meat, I just don't eat meat.

[rubywagon]

I haven't read that book in particular, but Fast Food Nation and the Michael Pollan books are similar. People always assume I am a vegetarian because of animal cruelty (which is true to a small extent) but my main reason is how big food corporations take advantage of farmers and destroy the environment. Definitely eye opening once you start to examine where your food comes from.

[Trek420]

There was a TV documentary, or maybe it was a movie, that made it to the small box, on a similar vein. Definitely made one think about where your meat came from.

Probably thinking of this: http://www.foodincmovie.com/


And in the U.S. some of the factory farms also recruit labor south of the border, then are *shocked* when the same workers get busted for being here illegally.

I'll probably get flamed for saying this but that's partly or largely because working conditions in factory farms and in the fields are so bad few here would take the job. Pay is low, conditions are worse than dangerous. :(

There's a high cost to cheap food whether it's lamb chops or lettuce. It's one of the reasons that I try to shop locally raised, smaller farms when I can.

But they are hiring. For those looking for work the UFW says please, come http://www.takeourjobs.org/

[PamNY]

I haven't read that book in particular, but Fast Food Nation and the Michael Pollan books are similar. People always assume I am a vegetarian because of animal cruelty (which is true to a small extent) but my main reason is how big food corporations take advantage of farmers and destroy the environment. Definitely eye opening once you start to examine where your food comes from.

+1 to this. I don't eat meat, but I do buy commercial dog food.

I haven't read this book, but I want to. I also want to read this one (http://www.amazon.com/Love-Dogs-Pigs-Wear-Cows/dp/1573244619), which explains why (in our culture) it's okay to eat pigs but not dogs.

[NoNo]

I just finished some bacon from a local farm:) I like meat, but I can understand how some people turn to vegetarianism when you learn about factory farm conditions. Since I sell at a farmer's market, I buy produce and meat there, and also get a little discount from my fellow vendors. I think if you eat meat, you should be aware of the whole process and if you can live with that process, go for it. Thankfully, even in the winter I can get local meat from the farm delivery service, along with dairy, herbs, veggies, and any number of other Connecticut grown/made products. It's a cool program and more farms seem to be getting on board, which is good to see.

[HoosierGiant]

All four of us have read the book -- loved it!!! It's the one title we recommend to anyone who expresses an interest in learning more about the subject. Without being overly technical and/or preachy, Jonathan Foer does a superb job of presenting the issues involved in factory farming. After the birth of his first child, he began wondering about the sources of the food they were eating. That curiosity, combined with investigative work and personal stories morphed into a wonderful read.

For those interested, here's a link (http://www.eatinganimals.com/site/book/) to info on the book.

[Thorn]

I haven't read that book in particular, but Fast Food Nation and the Michael Pollan books are similar. People always assume I am a vegetarian because of animal cruelty (which is true to a small extent) but my main reason is how big food corporations take advantage of farmers and destroy the environment. Definitely eye opening once you start to examine where your food comes from.

Well said.

I think that this is just one view of a larger problem--knowing the true cost of things, be it food, drink, the clothes we wear, the bikes we ride, etc.

If one item costs significantly less than another, we should be asking ourselves why and asking ourselves if we can justify it or whether we really need it.

Now, not everyone can afford to pay the higher price, but we can all ask whether we really need the item.

[tiva]

We have a small farm, and I'm also a professor of wildlife and forest ecology at a huge midwestern university. Factory-farming methods are appalling--except for broiler chickens. Laying hens are abused quite horribly in factory farm conditions, but broilers are treated in factory farm conditions pretty much the same way they're treated on free-range farm (they have a huge hoop house with lots of straw bedding, and they run around in flocks until it's time to eat them. Not a bad life for a flocking creature.) So I'll buy supermarket chicken meat, but no other meat from supermarkets. Instead, buy locally.

If you're in North America and you go to www.eatwild.com you can find great local sources of grass-fed, free range meat. Buying grass-fed, free-range, humanely treated meat directly from the small farm usually costs less than buying nasty meat at the supermarket. Support your local humane farmers! And eat great food in the process. Get a freezer cheap from craigslist so you can always have a supply of good meat from the local farm.

And best of all, grow your own little garden, get a small flock of laying hens, feed them the garden scraps and your own food scraps, compost the chicken manure, return it to your garden for more food, and create a self-sustaining cycle. Laying hens make great pets, and many towns now allow a small flock in your town garden. Plus the eggs taste a million times better than any supermarket egg.

[Grog]

I will make the case in favour of expensive food to anyone who will listen. All the things that have made food cheap, i.e. efficiencies, have ruined the good stuff. Cheap food allows us to displace our $$ from food towards consumer goods that further destroy the planet and its people through mining (ever heard of coltan mining?), intercontinental commerce, etc. Sure some people can't afford to buy "happy" food, and I won't make them feel bad about it. But I can afford it, so I will as much as I can.

I love meat, red meat in particular, rare or raw if possible :) but I almost never buy it anymore, unless I know where it's from. I eat as little chicken as I can, although I do eat eggs and cheese regularly, from a place where the chicks are sent to Montessori preschool or something like that. Most meals I cook at home are vegetarian now, it's also cheaper and I'm getting pretty good at making it tasty. I'm always surprised at how few people of my parents' age group even consider cooking a meal without meat. Most people are having meat at least twice, if not three times a day!! When my parents were visiting last summer I cooked a tofu dish that even my dad thought was great. He was pretty surprised. [And there is a lady near here that makes local tofu!! I couldn't believe how good it was compared to the regular stuff.]

However one looks at it, the environmental cost of meat - even family-farmed - is totally excessive. I increasingly see it as fit for special occasions, as it used to be.

Oh, and salmon..... I love, love, love salmon. But I'd rather leave it for the bears and eagles. I do buy it two or three times a year, but much less than before. Worldwide fisheries are collapsing... So many people and other species depend on fish protein more than I do.

Cycling reference: I get produce delivered from this guy. http://www.grocergunst.com/ It's an amazing concept, and the food is really good. Pretty inexpensive considering what we're getting, too.

[divingbiker]

We have a small farm, and I'm also a professor of wildlife and forest ecology at a huge midwestern university. Factory-farming methods are appalling--except for broiler chickens. Laying hens are abused quite horribly in factory farm conditions, but broilers are treated in factory farm conditions pretty much the same way they're treated on free-range farm (they have a huge hoop house with lots of straw bedding, and they run around in flocks until it's time to eat them. Not a bad life for a flocking creature.) So I'll buy supermarket chicken meat, but no other meat from supermarkets.

Of course, this doesn't consider the inhumane way the assembly line workers at the chicken processing plant are treated. I became a vegetarian in 1991 after reading about the limbs that were lost by the mostly immigrant workers when they were caught in the fast-moving machinery at the plants.

[badger]

I'm mostly vegetarian. I have issues with meat in all sorts of ways, mostly borne out of the cruelty they face, but also because of all the other issues mentioned.

It's interesting to note about the boiler chickens, though. Chicken's probably the only meat I'll eat if given a choice so at least it'll give me some comfort knowing they weren't horribly abused. I buy my eggs from a reputable local free range farm that uses organic vegetable feed.

I rarely ever buy meat, and the times I eat it, it's because it was offered to me.

I'm getting super weird about fish, too. Fishery is a whole other can of worms that affects everything from fishers, environment, and the animals in it. What is actually ok these days that aren't harmful to them or to us? We've been abusing our oceans for so long we're starting to see how sick it's getting :(

[zoom-zoom]

If you're in North America and you go to www.eatwild.com you can find great local sources of grass-fed, free range meat. Buying grass-fed, free-range, humanely treated meat directly from the small farm usually costs less than buying nasty meat at the supermarket. Support your local humane farmers! And eat great food in the process. Get a freezer cheap from craigslist so you can always have a supply of good meat from the local farm.

Great link--thanks for posting! There are several resources there that we should look at in our area. I think I finally have DH convinced that small chest freezer would be a useful appliance.

[Owlie]

One of my majors was environmental studies. The year I took the required seminar course, the topic was food. I think everyone in it felt guilty about eating anything for a while. We read The Omnivore's Dilemma, as well as a book about how humans have basically been depleting fisheries for about 1000 years (can't remember the title). Scary stuff.

Living in Ohio, you'd think we'd have more local produce or meat. Nope. Of course, it doesn't help that I live on the East (read, poorer) side of Cleveland. If I can make it to our food co-op, which in summer does tend to have some local stuff, I go there.

Meat...If I had money, I'd definitely pay for free-range grass-fed beef or free-range chicken. As it is, I can't. I'm certainly eating less meat, although that's a function of trying to keep food costs down. I love salmon and tuna, but save the occasional piece of fish or a sushi date with DBF, I don't eat much at all, for both cost and environmental reasons.

[Eden]

I don't know about chickens.... The chicken farm (broilers) that was visited in Food Inc was *horrifying*. I've never thought chickens were incredibly high up in the brain power area, so not having an enriching environment perhaps isn't so abusive (unlike pigs which are as smart as dogs...), but the factory farming of those chickens was disgusting - dark, dank, overcrowded, lots of sick, dead and dying chickens - many that could barely move. Put me waaaaaay off chicken. Then they go to processing factories which are a whole other horror in themselves.

I do think that the area that the farming is in may make a difference. The farm visited in Food Inc was in the south and producing for one of the huge conglomerates - Purdue maybe? I think chicken farms up here are better, but I still don't eat much chicken and spring for free range, organic when I do.....

A friend of ours who's a chef says he can tell the difference. He said they usually get Washington chickens, but occasionally they are not available and they are sent southern chickens. He says he can tell when he's breaking them down when they are southern ones - he says the joints are very tight and the legs don't move freely.......

As far as beef goes - the whole feed lot, slaughter house thing was just so incredibly nasty I won't buy anything but local, grass fed meat that was killed and butchered on the farm where it was raised. Needless to say I don't eat much beef....

[abejita]

We used to eat meat every day for lunch and dinner because that is how I grew up. Over the last 7 or 8 years we have been progressively eating better and better. For a long time I knew that grass fed beef was much better for us, but the expense always put me off. Then we watched Food Inc and we made the commitment to eat better meat. To keep our grocery bill from spiking too much, we started eating less meat but buying grass fed and pastured. Right now, we usually have seafood one night, meat maybe twice and the rest is vegetarian. We are lucky to live in Dallas where these things are readily available and reasonably priced. We can order meat to pick up with our co-op shares or go to the Farmer's markets to pick it up. Even Whole Foods carries grass fed beef along with pastured pork and lamb.

[NoNo]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs050.snc4/34838_1522181224670_1538774168_31331993_4484720_n.jpg

I just picked these from my aunt's backyard coop. I had to fight a hen who was sitting on 20 of them! I asked if we could eat them when their egg-laying cycle was over, but was told they wouldn't be very good except maybe for soup. I can tell you a coop has quite an odor after a week of 90-100 degree heat!:eek:

[tulip]

As far as beef goes - the whole feed lot, slaughter house thing was just so incredibly nasty I won't buy anything but local, grass fed meat that was killed and butchered on the farm where it was raised. Needless to say I don't eat much beef....

Farms typically don't have slaughter facilities on-site. They have to ship the cattle elsewhere. The slaughter (or "processing" as it's euphemistically called) facilities have to meet FDA standards, and often take animals from many different farms. They are still small-scale operations compared to the large commercial facilities, but they are not on-site at the farm.

I get my beef and bison from farms. I go to the farm to pick it up the beef, and I buy the bison at the farmer's market. The cattle and bison are raised on the family farms, but they are slaughtered and processed a few hundred miles away. The bison is processed in Pennsylvania, the cattle in Virginia. Both types of meat are frozen at the plants and delivered back to the farms in Virginia. The meat must be frozen per FDA regs.

I like beef and bison. Local farm-raised meat is so much more flavorful and tender than the grocery store stuff. I have no problem eating meat, but do my utmost to avoid factory meat whenever possible. Luckily, the good stuff is getting easier to find.

NoNo--that's a great photo. I would love to keep chickens, but I travel too much. I do have neighbors who keep them, though. And ducks.

[Eden]

Farms typically don't have slaughter facilities on-site. They have to ship the cattle elsewhere. The slaughter (or "processing" as it's euphemistically called) facilities have to meet FDA standards, and often take animals from many different farms. They are still small-scale operations compared to the large commercial facilities, but they are not on-site at the farm.


Indeed - it is not particularly easy to find, nor is it inexpensive, but the co-op that I've been doing a lot of shopping at carries beef (as well as pork, chicken and game hens) from a fairly local farm - I think its less than 50 miles from my house - that has a mobile slaughter operation come to their farm to process their beef. There's a guy who sells beef and lamb at most of the local farm markets that says he slaughters on site too. I wouldn't be too surprised if both farms use the same service. I'm sure one farm only could never support a business like that.

[NoNo]

I also picked a boatload of lettuce, the last of the summer I think, and stringbeans. My fridge is packed with them, and I'll be giving a lot away. I think you're better off knowing someone who has chickens and will give you eggs than having to clean, feed, and protect your own.

The woman at the market also sends her animals off to be processed. She said the plant in Connecticut kills them (and she watches) and then sends them to another place to be processed. The plant in New York will kill and process there. I'm having the Italian sweet sausage for the first time, and it's very tasty. A little salty, but so yummy! I swear I'm eating far more meat now that I'm at the market every week and it's right there. I like to peek into her cooler and figure out what I want to try that week (I do the same with the veggie stand on the other side of my table) :D

[lph]

All these posts about ethical eating are very heartening to read, I'm still feeling a bit sick to my stomach after reading that book. Haven't finished it yet, but I will. I'm not ready to give up meat completely, nor do I really feel it imperative, but I most certainly will be investigating how to get hold of meat from animals that haven't suffered unduely. At the moment I don't feel like eating meat at all.

What bothers me most, I think, is realizing that there most probably will always be a market for factory farm meat. There will always be enough consumers who don't have the time, money or patience to choose anything but the cheapest and most easily available food. So it feels a bit pointless, as if I can buy myself a better conscience, but it won't really do much about the process.

[abejita]

There will always be enough consumers who don't have the time, money or patience to choose anything but the cheapest and most easily available food. So it feels a bit pointless, as if I can buy myself a better conscience, but it won't really do much about the process.

But it is not pointless!! 1.) It is so much better for you health wise. Grassfed beef is leaner, has more 'good' fat and you have almost no chance of salmonella or mad cow disease. 2.) It sends a message. The more people who seek our and buy these products, the more large companies realize that people are not willing to accept the conditions that these animals are raised and slaughtered in. Just look at how many things you can find at main stream grocery stores that are labeled natural or no hormones added. You didn't see any of that stuff 10 yrs ago, but it became important to main stream consumers and you started to see manufacturers complying. You vote with your money!

[arielmoon]

I am vegan and although I dont not encourage people to eat animals, I am also a health foodie so I try to suggest grass fed/ free range/ organic to those that are going to. For your own sake.

Food Inc is another good film about factory farming that does not encourage vegism but rather moving away from factory farming. As a human being I found so much of the practices truly disturbing.

[blumensh]

I'm a raw vegan but my kids eat some meat (one of my kids could easily be a vegetarian but thee other is a meat eater) and my husband eats some fish but he's mostly vegetarian. The more you learn about meat processing the more it oogs me out. We try to stick to farmer's market meats and free range eggs but it's not always easy to find.

[tiva]

Broiler farms probably do vary a lot from location to location--here in southern WI, they follow fairly reputable practices, but they may be awful in other locations. But at least hoop house chickens here are treated in ways that respect their evolution a bit, as flocking creatures that need to move and peck (they have litter; they can dig and peck; they can interact with each other). Factory layers are kept alone, in tiny cages where they can't move, and it drives them insane, sometimes literally. Some slaughterhouses follow good practices; others don't. Processing plants are notorious for treating workers horribly.

So what do we do? Consumer pressure really makes a huge difference, so it does matter what you buy, and how you use your political and economic influence.

[Norse]

We eat a lot of chicken, veggies, some fish (DP doesn't like as much), followed by pork and lastly, red meat. We support sustainable local farmers and try to buy all our meat and egg products from them, and veggies when in season and not available from my garden. While I like my veggies, I also like meat but, like many, want to know that the animals were treated ethically. I highly, highly recommend The Compassionate Carnivore by Catherine Friend for those of us who eat meat. http://www.compassionatecarnivore.com/

[badger]

What bothers me most, I think, is realizing that there most probably will always be a market for factory farm meat. There will always be enough consumers who don't have the time, money or patience to choose anything but the cheapest and most easily available food. So it feels a bit pointless, as if I can buy myself a better conscience, but it won't really do much about the process.

I think we have to remember that we're pretty much like-minded here where we care about fitness and health, and for the most part I think we all care about animals and the earth we live on.

I know a lot of people don't care about animals or environment and wouldn't bat an eyelash if they were told of the conditions these animals are subjected to. They might say "oh, that's too bad", but they'll still buy cheap factory meat, and lots of it.

***

When I clicked on the link tiva posted about pasture meat, the farm that could deliver to me employs a mobile abbatoir. I thought that was great, because I can imagine the panic the animals feel when they're loaded up in those awful trucks to the slaughter house. It doesn't matter how low on the "intelligence" scale they are, they all know something bad is up, so the less time they feel that, the better.

[GLC1968]

What bothers me most, I think, is realizing that there most probably will always be a market for factory farm meat. There will always be enough consumers who don't have the time, money or patience to choose anything but the cheapest and most easily available food. So it feels a bit pointless, as if I can buy myself a better conscience, but it won't really do much about the process.

But it will. As others have said - you vote with your dollars. Just look at how many people here are eating better because their eyes were opened by such books as the one you are reading. If that person thought 'well, what good will it do if I write a book, so many will still want cheap meat that it won't affect anything' then you'd never even be questioning it, right?

The more people who demand humanely raised meat and locally grown produce, the more it will be available. The more that's available, the better the chance that more people will buy it. Look at the organics market - it's the fastest growing segment of the produce market in this country. No, it's not perfect, but it's still a better choice than round-up ready corn, right?

And HFCS - look at how so, so many producers are moving away from it because word is now out that it's bad. And RBGH - it's being dropped by so many dairy farmers because WalMart refuses to carry milk that contains it because that's what their customers demanded. There is power in numbers.

The reason meat is so cheap is because the public demanded it and the government complied (overly simplified, of course). If the public demands quality and IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT, then we can get it. We just have to be vocal about it and our voice is our cash. We can afford it (collective 'we') by limiting the amount of meat we eat and accepting that our food costs should be a larger portion of our budgets than previously accepted.

The Omnivore's Dilema quite simply changed my life. It's the reason we now own a tiny farm, drink raw milk, eat our own eggs from our own chickens, grow about 50% of our own veggies and about 75% of our own fruit. We also will eventually be producing our own chicken meat. What we can't produce, we buy locally first from people we know, secondly from farmers markets and thirdly from local grocerers. Worst case, we buy from regular grocery stores and choose local/organic when possible.

And just so you all know, factory farm broiler chicken is no better than other factory meats. I don't care that their conditions are better than the layers - the birds themselves are a genetic distortion that should never have been created. Have you ever seen them up close? They can't walk like a normal chicken - hell, half of them can't even stand up because their breasts are so huge and their legs are so weak. They eat literally 24-7 and hardly ever sleep because they are always eating. They live exceedingly short and ackward lives and then are killed for their breast meat only. It's sick. What kind of animal gets to 'maturity' in 8 weeks and then dies if left to live longer than that? It's so, so, so wrong. When we get to raising our own chickens, we will be raising heritage breeds that are 'dual purpose'. The girls will be kept as layers and the boys will be raised on free-range until natural maturity and then humanely killed for meat. It's much more expensive to raise chickens like that, but I will not be party to those 'franken birds'.

[GLC1968]

Oh, and one more thing - genetic diversity.

The more factory farmed food (meats and produce) we buy, the less genetic diversity that is out there. Without diversity, we are without protection from disease and other disasters. Did you all know that something like 95% of all the broccoli sold in this country is the exact same type? All of the chicken and all of the turkey meat sold in the US (through traditional sources) is the same breed - all of it. There are only about 20 types of apples commercially produced in this country? 20! There used to be over 200 varieties grown commercially! The vast majority of the eggs commercially produced in this country is from one single type of bird. This is monoculture and it is killing our food supply.

It's not just about animal conditions (though, of course, that's a concern), it's also about the lack of diversity and long term sustainability.

Anyway...I'll stop here before I get too worked up... I do have work to do today, afterall. :o

[smilingcat]

+1 to GLC

One comment which I read once but struck me is "treat all meat like a caviar." What he meant was, treat it as an expensive delicacy to be enjoyed in small quantity. Afterall, there is no such thing as cheap meat. It's heavily subsidized by your tax.

[Atlas]

I cringe every time I drive up the interstate here, passing hog confinements every dozen miles. Factory farming and processing is one of the most horrific jobs. Imagine being surrounded by so much pain and suffering, of both the human and animal variety. Those are not the well paid and sought after jobs of the mid 20th century.

I'm vegan for animal rights, human rights, and the health of the planet. While the only livestock I ever own will be rescued from such horrific operations, it is heartening to hear other people think of livestock as living things that don't deserve the appalling conditions they are stuck in. I really do think we vote with our dollars (almost more so than with our votes) so I can only hope the non-factory-farmed meat standards can come up a little.

Right now the USDA sanctioned 'free-range' only regards poultry, so any free-range pigs, eggs, cows - that's all marketing. Similarly 'natural' can be whatever the producers want it to be. Hopefully other certifiers, like Oregon Tilth, will become more common for livestock like they have for other products. They seem to have much higher standards than the USDA regulations.

[tiva]

Right now the USDA sanctioned 'free-range' only regards poultry, so any free-range pigs, eggs, cows - that's all marketing. Similarly 'natural' can be whatever the producers want it to be. Hopefully other certifiers, like Oregon Tilth, will become more common for livestock like they have for other products. They seem to have much higher standards than the USDA regulations.

Free-range is NOT all marketing if you follow the basic guidelines outlined in Jo Robinson's book and website www.eatwild.com:

buy locally
visit the farm before you buy
talk with the farmers about their practices
I'm married to a farmer and I live in a farming community. Some farmers treat their animals far worse than they treat their machines. Others treat them with respect and concern.

[smilingcat]

directly from USDA definition of free range free roaming (http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Meat_&_Poultry_Labeling_Terms/index.asp) Producers must demonstrate to the Agency that the poultry has been allowed access to the outside.

The key point here is that poultry has access to the outside generally understood to be three feet by three feet chunk of dirt outside a poultry house which houses 20,000+ birds. Birds don't have to go out there. They were allowed access!

My girls peck for earwigs, other bugs, table scraps and supplemented with chicken feed. Not the other way around.

As for CAFO, they are just awful!! nothing humane about that.

Tiva, you are right some farmers are really bad about animal husbandry others are really good. Like everything else, there are those who are respectful to the animals, polyfarm guy is an example and there are those who are really bad.

[Atlas]

Some farmers treat their animals far worse than they treat their machines. Others treat them with respect and concern.

I know many farmers too and I believe some genuinely respect their animals. I was just saying that according to the USDA free-range only applies to poultry, so there is no knowing what free-range means on anything else. And like Smilingcat pointed out, free-range isn't the open farm yard most people envision when they see the words on the label. I'm sure there are producers who are indeed free-range, but there are also ones who pervert its meaning. I would love it if everyone who ate meat went to the farms and met the people and the animals that make it possible, but most people don't. They read labels. And labels are not always as accurate as we'd like them to be.

[Kiwi Stoker]

One thing I love about NZ is that all beef and lamb is free range grass feed. We have the space and the animals get to live a relatively normal life roaming around, interacting with each other and being outside.

Recently some big farming company wanted to introduce shed dairy farming in the South Island. Their arguement was that the South Island is cold (it snows in winter) and being inside is better for the animals. However they still wouldn't be outside in the summer.

Thankfully there was a huge out cry- NZ has never had huge factory shed farming for dairy and it would impact on our marketing that we are free range for our cows and sheep and the government has managed to put a stop to it.

Pigs and chickens are a bit of a different matter but free range is becoming more and more popular.

One farming method I probably do agree with would be fish farming. Natural fish populations are pretty much depleted and to be able to keep on eating fish I think raising fingerlings to adulthood in a safe, non-polluting manner is the way to go. Maybe we could even release fish into the wild as well.

[Owlie]

The problem with farmed fish (I'm thinking in particular salmon) is that they aren't eating their normal diet, they're crowded and much more stressed than their wild cousins. This means they're much more vulnerable to parasites and disease (and roaming jellyfish swarms), and they're fed dyes to give their flesh that pink color.
I don't know about other fish like tilapia, though.

Now I feel like I can't eat anything again. :|

[sgtiger]

...they aren't eating their normal diet, they're crowded and much more stressed than their wild cousins. This means they're much more vulnerable to parasites and disease...:|

Because of this they are also regularly given antibiotics. And they are know to infect local populations of fish further threatening their survival. Most marine wildlife conservation societies recommend steering away from farmed fish for this reason, especially if they're grown in open nets or cages. There are some exceptions, but again it depends on knowing where the seafood is coming from, the farming practices of the farmers, and the regional legislation that protects the local waterways.


http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/sfw_gear.aspx
http://www.greenerchoices.org/products.cfm?product=fishfarms
http://www.surfrider.org/files/aquaculture/IATP%20aquaculture%20report.pdf
http://www.oceanconservancy.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14083


Sustainable seafood guides:
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/cr_seafoodwatch/download.aspx
http://www.oceanfutures.org/action/sustainable-seafood/sustainable-seafood-guides

[Thorn]

As a vegetarian mostly for environmental reasons, I get frustrated when someone does the, "but you will eat fish, right?" Uh....no. Environmentally speaking, pretty darn bad, particularly, as SGTiger stated, if it is farmed.

That said, I've been keeping an eye on some of the work on closed-circuit fish farming case studies. They're taking old warehouses and creating closed environments for freshwater fish that include water-treatment via plants, including herbs and salad greens.

[shootingstar]

One comment which I read once but struck me is "treat all meat like a caviar." What he meant was, treat it as an expensive delicacy to be enjoyed in small quantity. Afterall, there is no such thing as cheap meat. It's heavily subsidized by your tax.

Treating meat as "precious" when eating a small amount, is a good approach/attitude.

I confess that we cannot afford to buy organic. But I only eat meat 3-4 times per month or less. He eats meat even less frequent.

[SaNdEe]

OMG - like minds! I've just "converted" my husband to the slow food mindset. We read Michael Pollan's Omnivore's Dilema, saw Food, Inc, read Salatin's Everything I want to do is Illegal. Also Temple Grandin's books are enlightening.
Central Florida is a very hard place to find fresh local food (odd, we have the longest growing season in the US). The number of markets swelled but has since subsided - they have them during the week and don't veryify the food is not re-sale. There's also a resistance to the organic/natural movement (I guess they envision stoned hippies dancing around). People at work assume I'm a vegetarian because I like fresh vegetables and have a yard-garden. And coworkers brag, really and for real brag, about not eating vegetables (and then wonder why they get sick, gain weight, etc). On our quarter acre suburban lot we grow loquats, peaches, collards, tomatoes, oregano, rosemary, thyme, cilantro, stevia, lavendar, bell pepprs, hot peppers - and more. Many plants are worked into our landscaping and the yard looks really nice. We might add chickens (no rooster).
Local, non-processed food just TASTES better. I'm so thankful that my husband and I can afford good food. It can be expensive, but many places are lowering their prices (Crone's Cradle in Citra, has very affordable veggies, eggs, etc).
I'd really love to get kids turned on to farming and growing things. I feel like the next generations are missing this essential survival skill.
Along with safe cycling, of course ;)

[berkeley]

If anyone is looking to source local, pastured/grass fed/free range meat- check out www.eatwild.com .