Giving up on SPDs

[laura*]

I'm giving up on clipless (SPD) pedals and going back to toe clips. Trying to go clipless has totally zapped my riding confidence. I'm having a horrible time clipping in and can't unclip for an emergency. I've had two notable incidents related to clipless pedals:

Last summer I stopped to rest part way up a steep grade. It is so steep that getting started requires turning crosswise across the trail. I clipped in my lead foot, pushed off to continue riding, but was unable to instantly clip in my second foot. That meant I couldn't move my weight forward which meant my CG was behind the rear wheel. Thus my front wheel lifted and I almost did a backwards endo down a 30% grade (or over a cliff). Luckily, mid-endo I tipped over toward the uphill side. With toe clips this incident would not have happened.

Two weeks ago I was riding a path on a roadway that washed out decades ago. The "line" through one spot is only 3 or 4 inches wide. To the right, broken asphalt forms a curb, and to the left there's a pit. My front wheel bounced off the curb and dropped out from under me into the pit. Forward motion stopped and I started tipping to my right. Unfortunately, the right pedal and my heal were on the ground. Because I was already tipping over, I was unable to turn my heal out to unclip. I could do nothing but yell expletives as I fell over. With toe clips, I'd have been able to get a foot on the ground, and probably muscled the front wheel back on route without even stopping.

Clipping in has been a continuing problem. Often in urban riding, half a city block after a stop sign or light, I'll still be stomping, wiggling, and sliding a foot around trying to find just the right spot to clip in. This is not safe because it means I'm not watching out for traffic. Unclipping in normal conditions works just fine. I can ride up to a stop sign, come to a complete stop, and then unclip. However, it seems I'm unable to unclip for an emergency.

Looking back, my riding confidence is seriously hurt. I used to sometimes enjoy popping a wheelie going uphill leaving my driveway. Now I walk the bike up to the road. I figure there's a 95% chance of not clipping in the second foot, and thus a 100% chance of stopping, and then a 50% chance of falling towards the clipped in side. I've also started walking my bike around various trail obstacles.

After the second incident above, my emotions bounced between anger and crying. This was the last straw and hence I'm giving up on SPDs. I feel ripped off and conned by the bicycle industry. They portray clipless pedals as a superior replacement for toe clips. Shimano doesn't even make a two sided pedal compatible with toe clips. Four pairs of shoes, three sets of pedals, and an expensive tool to fix the pedals - and I find they don't work for my style of riding. (OK, two pairs were clearance sale shoes and one shoe/pedal combo is for an indoor trainer so the lost investment isn't all that big.)


So - are there any good premium platform (rat cage style) pedals compatible with toe clips? Cheap department store bike type pedals probably won't survive my riding. I notice that WTB's "Momentum" pedals are listed as being toe clip compatible. Is anyone here familiar with them?

[MtnBikerChk]

DId you practice?

I always tell people to put your bike in the house - preferably in front of the tv in a doorway so you can hold yourself up and just clip in....clip out....clip in....clip out. It's about muscle memory!

And SPDs can be adjusted so the tension is really loose. I wouldn't give up - in the long run, they're much safer than toe clips.

Of course you could always try a frog or a time which have no tension.......

[laura*]

DId you practice?

I've had the SPD pedals (Shimano M324) on the bike for more than a year. The situation has not been improving. As I wrote, in normal conditions I can unclip just fine. But if I'm already falling, I don't have time for two motions (unclip and then sticking a leg out). In the second incident there was no way of unclipping - my foot was trapped.

As for clipping in, sometimes my shoe will click right in. At other times, I just can't find the right spot.


And SPDs can be adjusted so the tension is really loose.

Oddly enough, I found it easier to clip in with the tension turned up quite a ways. And this higher tension doesn't seem detrimental to clipping out.

For the riding I do, I'd almost say I need "downhill" (platform) pedals, except I'm more often than not going uphill.

[Aggie_Ama]

I had a terrible time unclipping with Crank Brothers Candys, I wrecked at least 3 times that I remember. Was ready to throw in the towel on clipless too. My husband told me to give Times a shot and they are wonderful. They clip in surely, even when I have mud on the cleats and feel secure clipped but not stuck like the Candys. They also release without question but don't release when I am not expecting them to. I am riding the Time Atac XL.

[KnottedYet]

For the riding I do, I'd almost say I need "downhill" (platform) pedals, except I'm more often than not going uphill.

I have Crank Bros 5050X pedals that I love for all riding.

They go downhill AND uphill.

It's great being able to adjust the placement and height of the traction pins, and I bought an extra pack of tall and regular pins which allows me to customize the surface of the pedal even more.

http://crankbrothers.com/pedals_5050x.php The 5050XX are lighter and have sealed bearings (and cost more). You can buy plate kits to change the pedal colors, too. Lots of fun!

Honestly, I like them better than my Speedplay Frogs and MUCH better than the toeclips I used for decades.

[Chicken Little]

I second the Crank Bros.

However, riding should be fun. If you want to go back to platforms, do it. No harm, no foul, no shame. You could always get those double sided ones with the clips on one side and the platforms on the other. Do whatever make you feel comfortable.

[Cataboo]

I use speedplay frogs on my road or mountain bikes... They're easy to get into and out of - lots of float for my knee. I had my share of clipless pedal falls in the beginning, but they're pretty 2nd nature by now.

On my commuter or bikes that I use platform pedals on, I use VP bear trap/cage pedals - you can get 'em on ebay in various fun colors, and you can hook toe clips to them (least they definitely have the holes to do it):

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=vp+bear+trap+pedals

[Catrin]

I use speedplay frogs on my road or mountain bikes... They're easy to get into and out of - lots of float for my knee. I had my share of clipless pedal falls in the beginning, but they're pretty 2nd nature by now.

On my commuter or bikes that I use platform pedals on, I use VP bear trap/cage pedals - you can get 'em on ebay in various fun colors, and you can hook toe clips to them (least they definitely have the holes to do it):

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=vp+bear+trap+pedals

Do you get bites from the bear trap pedals? How sharp are the edges? Does your foot slip off? I have regular BMX pedals and I love them because my foot hardly ever slips off - but those for metal thingies (technical term) have added to my collection of scars (from chain and chain ring).

[Biciclista]

you're right. Don't use the things if they make you uncomfortable. Life is too short. It took me years to get the courage to try them (SPD's) and I took a class - a one hour session with a private instructor... which helped immensely. I have mine set as loose as they can possibly be.
good luck. enjoy cycling - and it sounds like you have the sense to discard what doesn't work for you.

[Irulan]

Another alternative is to give up on any kind of attachment. Many riders do just fine with a MTB specific flat pedal ( not the original bear traps that come with the bike) and a bike specific flat shoe. 5/10 makes some great shoes - they resemble skate shoes but the sole is very stiff, and sticky. They are sticky enough that the pedaling efficiency argument is pretty much a non-starter

At any rate, I'd suggest ditching toe clips. If you have any aspirations towards technical riding they are pretty worthless. Why?
The time that it takes to get in and out of a toe clip is vital time where you could be already putting a foot down.
If you are strapped into a toe clip, it's really no different that being clipped in: you are still attached to the bike when you may not want to be.
The bear trap pedals that toe clips attached to are like meat grinders on your legs.
The pedal is not balanced. It's guaranteed that when you want to put your toe in the cage, the cage will be flipped to the down side and you'll need to waste time flipping it around with your toe so you can get your foot in it.
Again, flipping the cage around is wasted time when you might need to be focusing on the trail, an obstacle, anything but what you are doing with your feet.
Last but not least, if you are riding on the flat side of the pedal (don't want to be in the cage) with the cage on the downside....well.... any one ever notice all the broken bits of toes clips along the trail? They get caught on things, bounce off rocks, break, reduce clearance...

Don't let people tell you that you have to be attached to the bike somehow. Many strong successful riders use flats and sticky shoes and do just fine.

Great article by Lee McCormack, http://www.leelikesbikes.com/benefits-of-flat-pedals.html

http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/shimano%20mx30%20pedals%2004.jpg


Notice how the shoe has ankle coverage on the inside...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519zmf0n5aL.jpg

[Zen]

I like those shoes. What are they?

never mind (http://www.zappos.com/womens-five-ten-shoes)

[katherine]

I think SPDs are about my favorite part on my mtn bike. They are the only component that I can use as a bottle opener. :)

[Irulan]

I like those shoes. What are they?

never mind (http://www.zappos.com/womens-five-ten-shoes)

Five Ten Karver.

[Cataboo]

Do you get bites from the bear trap pedals? How sharp are the edges? Does your foot slip off? I have regular BMX pedals and I love them because my foot hardly ever slips off - but those for metal thingies (technical term) have added to my collection of scars (from chain and chain ring).


I've never gotten bikes from the bear traps and haven't had my feet slip off - the metal spiky things are flat on top so they aren't actually spiked, but it's enough to hold to my shoes. It could just be that I've been lucky though.

I just use those on my commuter bikes - originally 'cause I could get them in red and they're a nice wide platform. So I can't say i've really done more than 25 mile rides on them.

The times I've crashed with them, they haven't done any damage to my legs, but it was probably the way I crashed or something.

My brother has a set of mine that unfortunately were the only set of pedals i had handy or could find when I was bringing him a bike over that a friend was selling - so he's been mountain biking with the bear traps for a couple of weeks now without marking up his legs (believe me, I told him a few times to be really careful about that and he probably really shouldn't use them mountain biking). But I found my spare cage pedals, so this weekend I'm gonna go swap 'em onto his bike 'cause I want my orange bear traps back! (he's probably scraped them all up!)

I have a couple chain ring scars.

[KnottedYet]

Do you get bites from the bear trap pedals? How sharp are the edges? Does your foot slip off? I have regular BMX pedals and I love them because my foot hardly ever slips off - but those for metal thingies (technical term) have added to my collection of scars (from chain and chain ring).

The platform pedals I use (Crank Bros 5050x) have pins instead of teeth, and they cause me fewer boo-boos than my old bear traps. I think the pins grip better than teeth for the way I ride, too. (see the pins on the Shimanos that Irulan posted)

[Irulan]

The platform pedals I use (Crank Bros 5050x) have pins instead of teeth, and they cause me fewer boo-boos than my old bear traps. I think the pins grip better than teeth for the way I ride, too. (see the pins on the Shimanos that Irulan posted)

The riders I hang with use a shin pad, something like, "veggie Skins" by 661
http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/661-veggie-shin-main.jpg

[Irulan]

I use speedplay frogs on my road or mountain bikes... They're easy to get into and out of - lots of float for my knee. I had my share of clipless pedal falls in the beginning, but they're pretty 2nd nature by now.

On my commuter or bikes that I use platform pedals on, I use VP bear trap/cage pedals - you can get 'em on ebay in various fun colors, and you can hook toe clips to them (least they definitely have the holes to do it):

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=vp+bear+trap+pedals

ack! I looked at those, I can't believe someone would use those for mountain bikes. They look like cheese graters.

If you want fun colors, there are all sorts of really cool mtb flats out there, made of anodized metals and colored plastics

http://bicycle.co.nz/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/w/e/wel26pedsealpur.jpg

[MyRubyE]

When I first started riding clipless on my mountain bike, I agree, it took all the joy out riding from me and I asked myself why, why was i doing this to myself?? Then the light went on - I didn't have to stay clipped if I didn't want to when hitting the gnarly stuff. I clipped out and planned ahead and clipped back in when I was ready. Sometimes our brains tell us that we have to stay clipped in for every inch of trail, but you don't have to ride every bit of trail clipped in. And when I did clip in yes, it made me a better and stronger rider on sections of trail that I was comfortable riding when clipped in.

That's why I love the Crank Brother Candy pedals because of the platform and having the ability to clip out when required and still continue to ride. I know there are a few people on the forum who have a bad experiences with the Candy's and that's perfectly ok. You have to go with what's comfortable for you. Even if you have to go back to platforms. That's perfectly fine - I almost did as well.

[laura*]

You could always get those double sided ones with the clips on one side and the platforms on the other.

That's what I have now. I use the bike in question for commuting and errands and thus it must be rideable wearing regular sneakers.


On my commuter or bikes that I use platform pedals on, I use VP bear trap/cage pedals - you can get 'em on ebay in various fun colors, and you can hook toe clips to them (least they definitely have the holes to do it):

Oooh! Lots of color choices! OK, these are now on the list of possibilities.


Another alternative is to give up on any kind of attachment.

I climb up so many steep grades that I must be able to apply power on the upstroke. This means some sort of attachment. When using this bike for commuting, I'm terrified of dropping a foot off the front of a pedal while spinning out in top (MTB) gear racing a city bus to the next bus stop. This also calls for attachment.


The pedal is not balanced. It's guaranteed that when you want to put your toe in the cage, the cage will be flipped to the down side and you'll need to waste time flipping it around with your toe so you can get your foot in it.

I had toe clips for 19 years. This was rarely a problem.


Last but not least, if you are riding on the flat side of the pedal (don't want to be in the cage) with the cage on the downside....well.... any one ever notice all the broken bits of toes clips along the trail? They get caught on things, bounce off rocks, break, reduce clearance...

This was my primary motivator to trying clipless. Not so much for trail riding issues, but more for carving high speed turns on roads. My old toe clips were getting horribly scratched up from dragging on pavement when not clipped in.


Then the light went on - I didn't have to stay clipped if I didn't want to when hitting the gnarly stuff.

That's what I've been doing now - clipping out of the SPDs for the gnarly stuff. However, the resulting reduction of control makes the gnarlies even gnarlier.

[Catrin]

I've never gotten bikes from the bear traps and haven't had my feet slip off - the metal spiky things are flat on top so they aren't actually spiked, but it's enough to hold to my shoes. It could just be that I've been lucky though.......

I have a couple chain ring scars.

I have an entire assortment of chain and chain ring scars - but if that is the price of gaining bike skills then I happily will pay it. My pedals look very much like the image that Irulan posted - and while the metal spiky thingies are flat on top the edges get me almost every time. It generally happens when I have to walk my bike for some reason and a pedal brushes my leg - it doesn't take much as I think the edges are sharper than they appear to be.. At least I haven't gotten any new chain ring scars in two weeks :)


The platform pedals I use (Crank Bros 5050x) have pins instead of teeth, and they cause me fewer boo-boos than my old bear traps. I think the pins grip better than teeth for the way I ride, too. (see the pins on the Shimanos that Irulan posted)

Knotted - those pedals look interesting. I seem to be slowly mangling one of my current pedals from previous inelegant dismounts and the occasional falls over the last few months - it hits the ground when I lean my bike over for mounting. I may well replace them with these pedals - it is good to hear that they cause fewer boo-boos.

My LHT deserves good looking pedals as well as other parts - when I finish re-learning how to stop/dismount - having to break a very bad habit that I've had from the beginning... The Wanderer deserves to look good!

[Irulan]

This was my primary motivator to trying clipless. Not so much for trail riding issues, but more for carving high speed turns on roads. My old toe clips were getting horribly scratched up from dragging on pavement when not clipped in.

What kind of mountain biking are you doing that involves carving high speed turns on roads?


That's what I've been doing now - clipping out of the SPDs for the gnarly stuff. However, the resulting reduction of control makes the gnarlies even gnarlier.

Standing on your little SPDs? Yes, that would give anyone problems.

My DH has the crank bros combos.. those work too but it sounds like you don't really want to do anything different.

[MtnBikerChk]

I've had the SPD pedals (Shimano M324) on the bike for more than a year. The situation has not been improving. As I wrote, in normal conditions I can unclip just fine. But if I'm already falling, I don't have time for two motions (unclip and then sticking a leg out). In the second incident there was no way of unclipping - my foot was trapped.

As for clipping in, sometimes my shoe will click right in. At other times, I just can't find the right spot.



Oddly enough, I found it easier to clip in with the tension turned up quite a ways. And this higher tension doesn't seem detrimental to clipping out.

For the riding I do, I'd almost say I need "downhill" (platform) pedals, except I'm more often than not going uphill.


You completely missed my point. Practice and take all the other elements out of the picture. There's no pressure in your living room. You won't fall. You will find the right spot with practice.

I was hit by a car - on the road - and I "had time" to unclip. It becomes second nature. Unclipping and putting your foot down is 1 motion.

You've already made up your mind so go to flats - but it really just takes practice - just like riding a bike......

[laura*]

What kind of mountain biking are you doing that involves carving high speed turns on roads?

99% of my riding is on pavement. I ride a MTB because of the monstrously steep grades - and because the occasional offroad connection avoids traffic and/or a long detour.

Even though I live in what some would consider a mountain biking mecca, there are very few off road areas* that allow bikes.


Standing on your little SPDs? Yes, that would give anyone problems.

They're combination pedals - SPD on one side, and a platform on the other.


it sounds like you don't really want to do anything different.

I don't like toe clips, but clipless has been a disaster so far. I'd love to find something clipless from which I can unclip as easily as from toe clips. That probably means being able to move my foot in one continuous motion with no resistance from the pedal to the ground. I'd also have to be able to clip in instantly 99.9% of the time.

* Offroad (non)possibilities:
State park half a mile away. One 2 mile paved MUP with serious grades. One 1 mile dirt trail that requires fording a river and the end of which is essentially a dead end for bikes. Two trails that allow bikes but which are impassable because of too much sand.
State park 1.5 miles away - no bikes allowed.
County park 2 miles away - closed 2 out of every 3 years and no bikes anyway.
City park 5 miles away - no bikes except for a half mile connecting trail.
Railroad tracks with a path alongside - NO TRESPASSING under threat of federal prosecution.
State university 1 mile but an hour of strenuous riding away - maybe 4 miles of flat wide gravel fire roads - gotta get there first.
State park also 1 mile and 1 hour away, or 10 miles by car - plenty of bike trails but the local microclimate is perpetually freezing.
Forest - No trespassing, logging area.
Forest - No trespassing, quarry area.
Forest - No trespassing, watershed area.
Forest - No trespassing, pot growing area.

[Cataboo]

She's been riding clipless on SPDs for a year - so it's not like she hasn't given these a chance.

So either clipless isn't going to work for her or the SPD style of clipless isn't going to work. I don't think spds are goign to get any easier for her with practice.

I know my speedplay frogs are an awful lot easier to get out of than the few days that I tried spd cleats - I can get in them instantly and out of them instantly. It did take a couple weeks to get to that point - but definitely not a year.

[KnottedYet]

She's been riding clipless on SPDs for a year - so it's not like she hasn't given these a chance.

So either clipless isn't going to work for her or the SPD style of clipless isn't going to work. I don't think spds are goign to get any easier for her with practice.

I know my speedplay frogs are an awful lot easier to get out of than the few days that I tried spd cleats - I can get in them instantly and out of them instantly. It did take a couple weeks to get to that point - but definitely not a year.

Ditto for my Speedplay Frogs. http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.frog No moving parts, passive release. Gotta love it in my little universe! I like showing off how easy they are to get in and out of by "clicking" my empty shoe in with a gentle 2-finger push, and "clicking" out by letting go of the shoe and letting it just untwist itself right off the pedal and fall off.

Thank you for clarifying what you were looking for, Laura.

Speedplay Frogs are ABSOLUTELY easier for me to get out of than toe clip/cages. I used cages for many years, and I was pretty darn good at managing them, but Speedplay Frogs had them beat all hollow within a couple weeks.

[BikeDutchess]

Same here. Once I tried Frogs I never looked back. I use them on my road bike and my MTB.

When I take spin classes I don't like those SPDs at all - glad the spin bikes don't tip over.

[rocknrollgirl]

I did not read all of this thread, so I do not know if this was mention.

Don't change the spd...change the cleat. They make a muti-direction release cleat that I have been using for 5 years. You do not have to twist your heel. Any way you pull it will release, and it do not come out unless you want it to.

It is a 20 dollar item and it changed my life.

trust me and give it a try.

[Catrin]

Ditto for my Speedplay Frogs. http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.frog No moving parts, passive release. Gotta love it in my little universe! I like showing off how easy they are to get in and out of by "clicking" my empty shoe in with a gentle 2-finger push, and "clicking" out by letting go of the shoe and letting it just untwist itself right off the pedal and fall off.

Thank you for clarifying what you were looking for, Laura.

Speedplay Frogs are ABSOLUTELY easier for me to get out of than toe clip/cages. I used cages for many years, and I was pretty darn good at managing them, but Speedplay Frogs had them beat all hollow within a couple weeks.

Interesting....how far do you have to twist your foot to get out of them? My fitter would like to see me eventually try the Speedplay cleats, but not the frogs - there is another kind that he likes can't think of the name of them. He did say that you have to twist your foot further to release them because of the increased float.

Eventually I am going to try clipless again, though I already have SPD pedals, cleats, and shoes I am not sure that I want that on my bike again.

[Selkie]

Laura --- Do what works for you.

I'm a fan of SPD pedals---have MTB SPD pedals on all of my bikes (road, cross and MTB). Like some of the other posters, clipping out has become instinctive for me. Second nature. When I first converted to clipless, I was extremely mindful and I anticipated situations where I thought I might need to unclip. In addition, I keep my cool and do not let myself panic. I think these are the primary reasons that I have never taken a spill due to forgetting to unclip or not clipping out in time. My one clipless incident was due to neglecting the check the tension on newly mounted SPDs. Big mistake---it was so high that I could not unclip. I told myself, don't panic....pulled up next to a parked car, stopped, leaned against the car, and took off my shoes! I used my multi-tool to correct the pedal tension and was on my way.

[withm]

Interesting....how far do you have to twist your foot to get out of them? My fitter would like to see me eventually try the Speedplay cleats, but not the frogs - there is another kind that he likes can't think of the name of them. He did say that you have to twist your foot further to release them because of the increased float..

Frogs are by far the easiest of all pedals to clip in/out. I have them on ALL 3 of my ROAD bikes, as do most of my friends. Had them on my hybrid too but kept them when I sold that bike. Took them to Europe on my bike vacation as well and put them on the rental bike. I will never go back to any other pedal.

[WindingRoad]

Laura - the 324 is the campus pedal SPD and it has a lot of 'stuff' around it to get snagged up on your shoe treads. I have experience with SPD and I have found that sometimes certain shoes just do NOT play well with them. I have also discovered that the Crankbrother's Eggbeaters (the one's with no platform) are super easy to get in and out of. They also have 4 sided entry which is nice. I use them for commuting and they work great, I don't have to think about it i just put my foot up there and 99.9% of the time they clip right in. I sounds like by the way you said you were stomping to get into the spds that the rubber on the shoe was interfering with the cleat and pedal actually touching. There's no shame in using platform pedals either but I was just trying to give you another option before you gave up on it completely.:)

[laura*]

Don't change the spd...change the cleat. They make a muti-direction release cleat that I have been using for 5 years. You do not have to twist your heel. Any way you pull it will release, and it do not come out unless you want it to.

I have the multi-release cleats already. They have proven to release with an upward pull. On one of my first SPD rides, I didn't properly execute a slow 180 turn on a driveway. With a panicked upward YANK! I managed to just barely get a leg out in time to keep from falling.


Laura - the 324 is the campus pedal SPD and it has a lot of 'stuff' around it to get snagged up on your shoe treads. ... I sounds like by the way you said you were stomping to get into the spds that the rubber on the shoe was interfering with the cleat and pedal actually touching.

It could very well be that there is some shoe to pedal interference.

The bike in question must be rideable in street shoes. The M324 and a few other SPD pedals are the only choice in a platform/clipless combo.

[snowroo]

I had lots of difficulty too till I switched to multi directional release.I don't even have to think of unclipping. My foot comes free just from pulling in any direction. Oddly they stay in when pulling for up hills and my feet don't slip when I'm going down a tricky part.

[Skierchickie]

If you don't like them, ditch them! However, I really don't see how toe clips are in any way easier. I always found them to be a pain in the ***. How on earth can you get into them starting up this 30% grade you mentioned?

My own experience: My first SPDs came on my previous MTB. They were lower-line Shimanos, and absolute death traps! I knew I would die with those, and was ready to go back to toe clips. DH & I replaced both of ours with some cheapie Nashbar ones, which were great. My current MTB came with Shimano M520 pedals, and they have been wonderful. ALWAYS there when I need them - I never have to hunt. Always pop right out when I have half and instant to think to do it. I did, however, break an ankle a year ago today sailing forward off the bike when it stopped on a dime and I didn't. No time to think - to even realize what was happening. It was a straight up & forward motion - I didn't have a chance. That was when I switched to the multi-directional cleats, and haven't had a problem since.

If you really have to be able to pull up AND wear street shoes, I'm not sure you have a lot of options. I suspect the combo-type aren't likely to be the upper-level pedal (just thinking of the night & day difference between my old pedal and my current ones).

Maybe what you REALLY need is to add a road bike to the stable! :D Then you could have good clipless on the MTB and whatever you need on the other bike.

I like my 520s well enough that I put them on my touring bike, and got some shoes that look more like normal sneakers (similar to what Irulan posted) that I can walk around in. I say get some good quality clipless pedals that you can use both ways (i.e. with shoes that will clip in, yet you can walk around in).

[KnottedYet]

Or you can buy a $10 pedal wrench and a tube of grease and change pedals depending on how you want to ride that day. It isn't hard to do.

"The bike in question must be rideable in street shoes. The M324 and a few other SPD pedals are the only choice in a platform/clipless combo."

Didn't someone post a link to a Crank Brother clip-and-platform system? Those are not SPD (SPD is Shimano's system, and if you know you don't like it you can ditch it). Maybe you'll have better luck with the same pedal style, just different brand and attachment system. http://crankbrothers.com/pedals_mallet.php

[sundial]

I have tried both SPDs and platforms on my mtb and I've gone the way of platforms. :) I had Speedplay Frogs on my mtb but I found the pedal is NOT good at shedding mud which can make clipping in a little difficult. On the upside they were the easiest to clip in and out of. If you decide to go with platforms, the 5.10 shoes that Irulan posted have a super sticky sole and will really grip the pedal. Just know that you will have to deal with the pins kissing your shins and you will want to plan accordingly.

[laura*]

How on earth can you get into them starting up this 30% grade you mentioned?

Bike semi-crosswise to the grade. Brakes on. Butt on saddle. Right pedal raised with right foot in toe clip. Left pedal turned to position toe clip for entry. All at once release brakes, push off with left foot, and push pedal down with right. Swing/kick left foot into toe clip as it comes around in time to push left pedal down. Steer toward uphill, move hands to L-bend bar ends, and lean forwards off the saddle.

Occasionally, my left foot would miss the toe clip. In that case I'd simply stop, set up, and try again.


They were lower-line Shimanos, and absolute death traps! ... My current MTB came with Shimano M520 pedals, and they have been wonderful.

Hmmm, the M520's are Shimano's current lowest end double sided SPD pedals. Might your previous bike have had the discontinued M505 or M515's? Looking at the exploded parts lists, the M520 style pedals have a different style cleat holder... while the M505/M515 use the exact same part as my M324's and several other models across the range.


Maybe what you REALLY need is to add a road bike to the stable! :D Then you could have good clipless on the MTB and whatever you need on the other bike.

In that case the "road bike" would need to be another nearly identical MTB. One could be set up for errands and the other for sport rides.

After having toe clips for 19 years (and never crashing that I can remember!), having to sometimes flip pedals around is second nature. I thought I could meet both needs with a combo style pedal.


I ... got some shoes that look more like normal sneakers (similar to what Irulan posted) that I can walk around in. I say get some good quality clipless pedals that you can use both ways (i.e. with shoes that will clip in, yet you can walk around in).

I have a prior year of these "clipless" shoes (and hey, they're on sale here!):

http://images.teamestrogen.com/ri/650/650/2009_Spring/PI-5742-589.jpg

They're OK for a quick errand, but not if I'm going to spend many hours on my feet off the bike.


Maybe you'll have better luck with the same pedal style, just different brand and attachment system. http://crankbrothers.com/pedals_mallet.php

Are those rideable wearing regular sneakers? Don't the eggbeater loops stick up above the platform?

[KnottedYet]

Well, I am tapped out. There are tons of reviews of the Crank Brothers Mallet out there (4,000 plus) according to google. I don't know how to post all the links. Yes, you can use soft shoes. Yes, the eggbeaters stick up.

Many of us will take a second pair of shoes while riding in bike shoes if we want something that will be comfy on our feet for hours off the bike.

If you don't find the pedal you want from all the generous postings people have given you, can you ask your LBS?

Good luck on your search.

I am done.

[Irulan]

Well, I am tapped out. There are tons of reviews of the Crank Brothers Mallet out there (4,000 plus) according to google. I don't know how to post all the links. Yes, you can use soft shoes. Yes, the eggbeaters stick up.

Many of us will take a second pair of shoes while riding in bike shoes if we want something that will be comfy on our feet for hours off the bike.

If you don't find the pedal you want from all the generous postings people have given you, can you ask your LBS?

Good luck on your search.

I am done.

lol, I know the feeling.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Laura, you said you don't actually do that much mountain or off-road riding, but that you want a mtn bike because of the hills. Why not just put sturdy tires and low gears on a regular bike or road bike? I have mtn gears and kevlar tires on my road/touring bike.
I also like wearing my normal shoes to bike and get around on, not special clipless shoes. So I use PowerGrip straps, not clipless, not cages, not clips. You can adjust them snugly and pull up on them when pedaling. Your feet won't slip off the pedals ever.
Just a thought.

[Irulan]

I am very genuinely curious... where are you riding that has 30% grade? Straight up Filbert street in San Francisco? That one is a 31% grade, and is known for being the steepest street in the city.

found this little gem:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Grades_degrees.svg/300px-Grades_degrees.svg.png

[Skierchickie]

Hmmm, the M520's are Shimano's current lowest end double sided SPD pedals. Might your previous bike have had the discontinued M505 or M515's? Looking at the exploded parts lists, the M520 style pedals have a different style cleat holder... while the M505/M515 use the exact same part as my M324's and several other models across the range.

I think those were the M505 pedals - both those numbers sound familiar, but I do think it was 505. Total death traps! I had one ride where I probably toppled over 10 times, all because I couldn't unclip. Even if I knew I was going to have to stop well in advance. The last crash of that ride was on flat pavement with a stop sign ahead. I'd been riding clipless on my road bike for about 10 years at that point, so it wasn't a matter of total newbiness. Those things would NOT release.

I really don't have ANY problems with the 520s (and they are always right there and clip right in - I never have to hunt for them), but if stiff bike shoes, even with recessed cleats, won't work for you, then it does sound like no clipless pedals will work. And some sort of containment is necessary to meet the pulling-up requirement. I think I'd try Bleeker's suggestion and get some Powergrips. Okay - I'd get some sort of awesome climbing bike, but that doesn't solve the pedal/shoe issue.

[Miranda]

Hmm, that's interesting comment on M505s.... that's what I have. And I use the spd SH56 cleat which is the multidirectional release cleats... like em way better than the single release SH51.

Something that I think releases multidirection similiarly, buts bit easier to find entry cuz it's 4 sided, vs 2 sided, is Crank Bros regular eggbeaters.

Those you can set release tension degrees-angle to make em come out easier... sorta like concept of the SH56 cleat.

Toe cages... no maam, not for me. Puke.

[indigoiis]

I am still learning on my mb and have spd pedals. My mb club leader kept telling me to stay clipped in on technical bits and fall with the bike if I fell - that to clip out and ride clipped out on the pedal can be cause for an accident - and that sticking a leg out at the wrong time during a fall could break something. Did I listen? Nope. Tried to clip out during a rocky upgrade, and in the twisting out action fell with the bike on to the left ankle and busted it. In the middle of nowhere. So, lesson learned.

When I get back on the bike this fall, I am going to look in to some of these other pedal options, as the left twist thing is no longer going to work for me. But I know now what I didn't then. I plan on staying clipped in through as much as I can from now on. I also like the idea of the flat pedals with pins. I may have to try those out.

Thanks for the great advice and to the OP for posting the question!

[Irulan]

tay clipped in on technical bits and fall with the bike if I fell - that to clip out and ride clipped out on the pedal can be cause for an accident - and that sticking a leg out at the wrong time during a fall could break something.

Um, wow that is some interesting advice, not what I would give a beginner. I

[laura*]

Yes, you can use soft shoes. Yes, the eggbeaters stick up.

Yours was the first suggestion I've ever heard that a Crank Brothers clipless pedal w/ platform surround could actually be useful with non-cleat shoes. Previously I thought that the platform on those pedals simply was for extra stability while clipped in.


Laura, you said you don't actually do that much mountain or off-road riding, but that you want a mtn bike because of the hills. Why not just put sturdy tires and low gears on a regular bike or road bike? I have mtn gears and kevlar tires on my road/touring bike.

The bike in question is a mid 90's steel frame rigid fork MTB. In today's market it might be grouped with flat bar road bikes. So, in a sense, I've already followed your suggestion except that the frame's MTB heritage means it is longer. I think that is useful for me when climbing hills.


I am very genuinely curious... where are you riding that has 30% grade? Straight up Filbert street in San Francisco?

Filbert street is less than 100 miles from here. The steep grade is in a state park. The trail is climbing out of a river valley. From a creek crossing to a leveling of the trail, a USGS topo shows a 100 foot rise in a run of 500 feet. That's 20%, except the climbing is compressed into less than 500 feet.


I think those were the M505 pedals ... Total death traps!

I really don't have ANY problems with the 520s

Hmmm. So not all Shimano SPDs are the same. So maybe that's my problem. (The M324's have been sort of OK for my urban riding...)


My mb club leader kept telling me to stay clipped in on technical bits and fall with the bike if I fell

In my teens, I learned to "fall off" my bike when I crashed. I could usually "make like a cat" and land on my feet. And my bike, because it no longer had my weight on it, wouldn't be hurt either. But being attached to the pedals definitively gives more control for the technical bits.

[meggybikes]

I just want to echo the calls on here for Speedplay frogs. There is no spring in the system, you simply move your heel over a little bit to get out, and lift up your foot, and your'e out. I'm not sure how many degrees you have to move your heels, but I can tell you that they are the easiest pedal in the world to get out of. I dont' even think about getting out of them, I just put my foot down, they are that easy. Oh, and I should add that I worked at a bike shop for 5 years and recommended these to everyone who couldn't get used to spd's, and no one ever returned them. You can find them used on Ebay pretty regularly. Good luck!