Ache/crampiness on outsides of feet...shoes too narrow?

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I have wide feet...not so much my heels (they are actually a hair on the narrow side), but definitely the front half. Think of a duck's feet. If I had webbed toes I'd be a freaky-good swimmer.

I have found that after about 2 hours the outside of my feet start to hurt--particularly on my larger/wider foot. The area is generally right around the peroneal tendon. Here you can see photos of my feet (I recently sprained my left ankle and my left ankle and foot are pretty swollen, but you can see how paddle-like both of my feet are):
click...kinda big to embed (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs018.ash2/34253_1497470801042_1362296891_1327657_2815123_n.jpg)

My shoes are Sidi Dominator 5s, size 40 (I typically wear from a 7.5-8.5 wides when I can find them, depending upon manufacturer...at least for running shoes). Length is good, but I have always thought they were a hair narrow...though I know they aren't supposed to fit like running shoes. I have the 2 velcro straps across the forefoot about as loose as they can go and still stay put. The upper doesn't feel terrible, but what seems to be the issue is the plastic sole piece. It feels like the outer edge is cutting along the underside of the lateral edges of my feet.

After today's 71 miler this area is actually pretty red and swollen on my right foot--even on the top of my foot.

I otherwise like the shoe and the length is good. I'm thinking I probably should have gone with the men's version, though, as I wear a D width in running shoes and D is a men's medium (women's mediums are Bs) and am thinking I may go ahead and order a pair of the same shoe in a men's model (assuming the heel fit wouldn't be too loose). Or maybe look at a different brand entirely. If I did that, can anyone recommend a shoe that would be similar to a size 40 Sidi Dominator, only wider through the forefoot?

Thanks, ladies! :)

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To add...a related question. Since I am currently using MTB shoes with my road bike. I am content (and adept) with SPD pedals, but this does limit my shoe selection. Hubby thinks I should stick with SPDs--he is a MUCH more experienced cyclist and I am FAR faster clipping in from stops with my current pedal set-up. He is of the mind that by switching to a true road shoe and changing to a non-SPD pedal that I may end up unhappy.

Is there any major benefit to honest-to-goodness road shoes/pedals vs. MTB shoes and SPDs? Eventually I would like to dabble with cyclocross, so it seems like having the same type of shoe/pedal on all of the bikes in my "stable" might be a good idea. Yes? No?

[softthings]

i just switched to mens shoes. i had the womens' specialized torch shoe and now i have the mens elite shoe. i think i am going to like it better. i have wide feet and my boyfriend told me mens' shoes are wider than womens'. i don't have room to move my feet around in the show when i am really digging in. i usually get cramped, tingly feet. so, mens' shoes might be an option for you. hth.

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Yeah, men's shoes are a definite possibility, though I'm not sure that heel fit will be good, as men have wider heels. I really wish there were wide-width women's-specific cycling shoes.

[Ambikes]

I have duck feet too! I ALWAYS have problems finding running shoes that don't give me pinky toe blisters. I had that problem with hiking boots also, until I got a pair of Garmonts (which I highly recommend if you're ever in the market for hiking boots).

I've found that Shimano shoes tend to have a wider toe box than the other brands my LBS carries (Specialized and Adidas, I think). I have two different Shimano models, and one is definitely a little wider through the forefoot than the other, so it might depend on the particular shoe model also.

Lots of people use MTB pedals on road bikes. My riding partner has Speedplay Frogs on both of her bikes. I ride SPDs on the MTB and Look Keos on the road bike, but only because I have problems with numb toes after a couple of hours on the SPDs. The larger platform of the Looks keeps my feet much happier.

[OakLeaf]

partial hijack ...

I can't help you with cycling shoes - my Spec Torch shoes are narrow but acceptable to me, with the buckle positioned in the tighter position and cinched all the way tight.

But for running shoes, try the Nike Zoom Triax Structure 13. Seriously, Nike. I was like, "What?" when the salesman brought them out, but they have a VERY square and wide toe box, plus the overlay is set farther back than in many shoes, so they don't irritate my incipient tailor's bunions, yet with the proper lacing my heels don't slip, either. They come in women's Wide, which is what I wear.

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Oak, I wear a Nike running shoe (Run Avant+...now replaced by the Lunarfly+). Yep, they fit better than current wide-width NBs. NB messed up their entire product line about a year-and-a-half ago. I used to wear their wides, now they no longer fit.

I have a friend with a wide foot who just got Shimano shoes, so I'm definitely looking at those. I wish there were more places near me that carried lots of shoes to try on.

[softthings]

i got my mens spec shoes. i love them. i don't notice that the heel area is too wide either. i also got a carbon shoe. good luck finding a good fit!

[nscrbug]

Take a look at Northwave shoes. I absolutely LOVE my women's Northwave Velvet SBS road shoes...wide in the toe box, narrower in the heel...perfect! I'm not sure what Northwave carries in the way of women's MTB shoes, but if you are even thinking about switching over to road shoes, I would definitely recommend checking out the Northwave line. This is the shoe I'm currently wearing -

http://www.realcyclist.com/roadbike/Northwave-Bike-Velvet-SBS-Cycling-Shoe-Womens/NTW0033M.html

[Aggie_Ama]

Sidis are some of the narrowest shoes out there, they also have a pretty basic stock insole. I replaced my Sidi insole with Aline orthos. My LBS actually does shoe fits, maybe you can find one that offers this?

As for the other question about mountain vs road.... A stiff shoe will help you get the most of out your effort. I also find it more comfortable for me. My mountain shoes (Specialized Riata) have a fair amount of flexing, I wasn't too happy using them on my old commuter especially if I got out of the saddle. That being said some of the mountain shoes are made with a stiffer sole so it may be a different feel. Many people use mountain shoes on their road bikes, it just isn't for me. But then again you may hate trying to walk in road shoes or putting your foot down to stop, it is a different feeling from mountain shoes.

[OakLeaf]

OTOH, the wide Sidis ("Mega" width) are some of the widest ones out there. I can get away with Spec', but Sidi Mega are the only ones my sister can wear.

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Ok...I think we have figured out my problem and it's not shoes that are too narrow (I picked-up a pair of Specialized mtn. shoes on eBay for a good price...strangely, they are narrower than my Sidis. Did a short ride with those and had numb feet the entire way. :rolleyes: ).

I started Googling for info. re: sore outer arch area from cycling and MANY of the threads I found pointed to supination issues (interesting, as I am a mild overpronator when I run). The solution was placing a wedge between the cleat and shoe, on the medial edge.

I ordered a pair of SPD mtn. cleats with a 1º wedge built-in (plastic wedges apparently do not work well with the small platform of mtn. cleats, otherwise). While I wait for those to arrive DH made a small, thin, angled piece of aluminum with a hole drilled in the center to stick under the medial bolt.

Today I did a short ride, but it was pretty apparent immediately that pressure was redirected to the center of the ball of my foot, instead of under my baby toes. Sweet.

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So I'm back to this. My right foot has been extra annoyed of late AND I'm starting to get numbness in that foot even when I'm not on the bike. I picked-up a pair of Northwave "Shiver" MTN bike shoes...they are nice, but still a hair too narrow AND my heel slips out of them, so back they're going to have to go.

I guess my next option is men's shoes, since Northwaves appear to be the widest women's shoes out there.

I guess now my issue is finding a men's shoe that has narrow heels. Something for "duck feet." Any suggestions? I'm limited in my ability to try things on locally, unfortunately, since most bike shops are a minimum of an hour away and I'm guessing my 39ish feet are not going to be a commonly stocked size in men's models...

[GLC1968]

I'm sure this will come as a huge surprise to you (not) but we apparently have the same feet too. I've got duck feet as well, but mine are smaller than yours (37 - 38 depending on brand).

For cycling, I wear Specialized men's - both MTN and Road versions with carbon soles. The MTN ones are a touch too narrow, but I fasten them loose enough that they work for shorter rides (less than 90 min). My road shoes I wear for longer rides and they have definitely stretched out since I got them. Still, after about 3.5 to 4 hours - my feet ache just like what you described. It's actually gotten worse since I started barefoot running as my feet have spread. My podiatrist has suggested that if it gets any worse, then I should bring my shoes to him and he'll cut them up for me to give me more room (and still allow them to work). I'm not sure how I feel about that but I suppose it's an option.

I also just bought a pair of the Keen cycling sandal in a size too large to use to try 'cutting' to get me more room (I got a deal on SAC). We'll see. I may just have to accept that I can't ride for longer than about 3.5 hours which isn't the end of the world for me in the current state of my life.

[zoom-zoom]

Dang...so even Specialized men's shoes might not be wide enough for me?! :eek:

Right now I'm thinking a pair of custom Bonts don't sound so bad... :rolleyes:

Have I mentioned how much I hate my feet? I'm just thankful that the NB 905s fit me better than the 904s did...I missed my duck feet shoes when they went all narrow with their women's Ds. :p

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Oooh...now these LG mtn. shoes (http://crossbikereview.com/clothes/reviews/louis-garneau-t-flex-300-road-shoe) are intriguing. Even DH thinks they sound good on paper. Sounds like they would work for my heels, too...and I'm hoping to get into cyclocross either this year or next, so they would likely work just as well for that as they would on the road.

Hmmm...now I just wonder what size. My Sidis are 40s, the Northwaves I tried are women's 39s...39 in men's LGs? No matter what I will order from a retailer with a good return policy. There are only a few places on this side of the state that carry LG, but I don't know that anyone carries actual shoes, just clothing.

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So I ordered a pair of the LG shoes in 39...and they fit better than my Sidis (they should, since they are men's standard D width and my Sidis are women's standard B)...but I think may be a hair short/narrow, especially since the toe box feels to have pretty low volume (my feet are not only wide, but fat, heh).

Just how much room should a cycling shoe have beyond the toes? I can never find any hard/fast rule on this. Right now I'd say I have <cm. The next size up is 40, which is about a CM longer. The heel fit is excellent...better than my Sidis and better than the women's Northwaves I tried. I have a stupid narrow heel that slips out of a lot of shoes.

I would like to be able to wear these in the Winter, too, with a heavier sock. Right now I have a relatively lightweight Smartwool cycling sock on.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Most boot and shoe retailers say a thumb's width at the end of a closed toe shoe.

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Most boot and shoe retailers say a thumb's width at the end of a closed toe shoe.

I keep reading conflicting info. re: cycling shoes...some places say they should fit in length like running shoes, other things I read suggest that there should be very minimal room beyond the toes. But the new shoes are definitely a hair too short and narrow to feel "right" on my feet.

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So I ordered the LG shoes...the 39s were too small, so I went up to the 40s (same size as my Sidis)...what a different fit from the Sidis! Length is about the same, but they are generous through the midfoot and forefoot, narrow through the heels. No pointy toe, a very gentle, rounded toe. The shape of the shoe is also more straight-lasted, while Sidis are curved lasted--I have never been able to wear curve-lasted shoes. These shoes feel like snug, stiff racing flats, instead of tight, pointy-toed women's dress shoes.

The LGs feel great on my feet and are heat moldable, so I heated them up and put them on for 20 minutes while they were soft and flexy. They stretched in just the right spots. Plus the toes are designed to flex for running off the bike...I hope to try cyclocross this Fall.

And I have room for a slim pair of blue Superfeet insoles and forefoot shims. I can't wait to see if this improves my mechanics on the bike...I can now tweak things to adjust for a suspected shorter/functionally shorter left leg. Hoping to do at least 30 miles in them, tomorrow.

[Desert Tortoise]

Zoom-zoom, glad you found some shoes that seem to work. I know how you feel, I too have duck feet.

By the way, just noticed this thread. Thanks for sharing your search. I need to get shoes and I've been putting it off because finding a heel that does not slide out is such a pain.

Curious, what is straight-lasted and what is curve-lasted?

DT

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When you look at a shoe does it go pretty much straight from heel to toes, or does it curve towards the big toe, some? I find that the shoes that work best for me are generally wide and straight...like Dansko clogs, Keens, and New Balance or Nike running shoes. I can't wear Asics...they are almost all too curved for my foot.

First ride in the shoes (46 miles) went reasonably well--no more overlapping and cramping toes. I still had to loosen the toe straps after about 9 miles, since my feet were swelling. They are definitely not too wide. I'm not sure how I rode in women's Sidis for so long.

I still have to tweak a few things. I need to move my cleats back a bit more and I think the combo of Superfeet insoles and forefoot shims was a bit much. I'm leaving the shims out for my next ride to see if I like that better. That will give my feet a bit more room, too.

They seem to absorb road vibration better than my Sidis. Heel fit is better and I felt more airflow around my feet, too--though I will not be happy about this come Winter...but I should be able to wear a heavier sock and can always do full shoe covers.

[Desert Tortoise]

Oh, I never really thought about the curve/straight thing. I'm going to look at that next time, thanks.

These shoes seem to be working out. Good luck with the tweaks and happy riding! :)