Grocery bag panniers?

[mariposa]

Hi,

I'm getting a rear rack with pannier stays for my bike. My bike has 27" tires, but a short wheelbase.

So now I'm trying to figure out panniers.

Here is what I am thinking about the panniers:

1. Most common use of the panniers would be to (a) pick up groceries or shopping items; or (b) having a place to stash/lash my commuter backpack when it's heavy and I don't want it on my back.

2. I do *not* want to get a backpack/messenger bag style pannier. I have a ton of backpacks/canvas shopping bags already, and want to use the ones I have, rather than adding to the list. Also, the panniers don't need to have a top/rain cover...I don't often commute in the rain, and if I do, I'll improvise something.

3. So I'm wondering if I should just get two, sturdy "grocery" style panniers, that are plenty deep wide enough to just throw any backpack into them.

Or maybe I'd get a grocery pannier on just one side; and simply lash my backpack to the other side, sans pannier. (Although, there are backpack straps that could dangle into my wheel; don't want that.)

Also, since I have a short wheelbase, what do I need to do to ensure no heel strike?

Ideas? Specific brand/model recommendations? (And, I'd prefer to buy used, so I'll probably look on Craigslist, or maybe someone here has some panniers they want to sell :)

Mariposa

[Melalvai]

Have you considered a rear basket? I like the Wald's largest pizza-box-size basket, with a mesh bungie thrown over it. I pile stuff up, and stretch the bungie over it all.

[mariposa]

Hmmm, rear baskets. This Kettler one looks great - anyone tried it?

http://www.amazon.com/Kettler-8985-600-Rear-Bicycle-Basket/dp/B000BTEODY/ref=pd_sbs_sg_5

This Cardiff one looks really nice, too:

http://www.amazon.com/Basil-Cardiff-Rear-Basket-Black/dp/B000YO7LTK/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4

Mariposa

[Slowspoke]

ohh I like that Kettler shape!

[Blueberry]

I'm sure this isn't what you're looking for, but I'm totally fascinated with it: http://www.burley.com/products/cargo-utilities/travoy.cfm

It's a trailer/grocery cart contraption that seems to carry quite a bit and without much difficulty. Folds up small. My LBS has one. I was tempted. But I don't need it...

I have the basic fold up nylon grocery panniers (Novara, I think). They aren't holding up terribly well (I bought them 2nd hand). They also have a boxy shape that makes heel strike a problem for my DH on his shorter wheelbase bike. I'd rule those out. I also have the Ortlieb grocery shopper. It's small, and difficult to load (but is water proof).

[WolfGirl]

ooh, that Burley looks really neat! I've been wondering how to haul stuff if we do biking/camping trips...that looks great.

I have a Trek grocery bag pannier (here (http://store.trekbikes.com/jump.jsp?itemID=350&itemType=PRODUCT&path=1%2C2%2C5%2C35%2C187&iProductID=350)) that holds a lot, but I do have some heel clearance issues at times. (It's inconsistent.) In case you were pondering a backpack pannier, I have an Arkel one that I actually don't like that much; it doesn't hold a lot and I wouldn't use it for groceries. I'm pretty happy with the Trek one, and probably if I adjusted it I wouldn't have the clearance issue.

[NbyNW]

That Burley trailer looks cool!

I have an Arkel shopper (http://www.arkel.ca/ca_e/all-categories/laptop-bicycle-pannier/the-shopper-foldable.html). It's quite roomy and has adjustable clips so you can move it back to avoid the heel strike issue.

My bikes tend to also have short wheelbases, so I always look for adjustable clips on my panniers.

[mariposa]

Thanks for replies so far.

I live in a city where useful items left on one's locked up bike - saddle, front light, back light, water bottle, etc. - are tempting to thieves.

So, I would like for the pannier or basket that I get to look like something nobody wants to detach and steal. (I want to be able to leave it on my bike - I hate the idea of having to detach a pannier and take it with me EVERY time I lock up my bike!)

Anything nice that folds over, or looks like a backpack, just looks to a thief like...A nice backpack that might have some nice stuff inside it. Stealable.

I like the very basic canvas grocery panniers and the basic baskets, because they won't look like anything special to a thief.

Mariposa

[TsPoet]

well, the leaving it on the bike changes my recommendation a little.
I have these
http://robonza.blogspot.com/2007/06/review-nashbar-townie-basket-aka.html
I got them on sale for about $25, looks like they are on sale now
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_170997_-1

They are nice, simple... They can be stolen, but fold flat when not in use and are unobtrusive so maybe wont be. They are also really really easy to remove, I use them as my shopping bag so I don't need to get "paper or plastic". But, I've recently switched to these
http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=93&idproduct=1445
Quite a bit more expensive and huge. I got these to bike camp with when we started riding out after work Friday, camping, and riding home again - nice simple bags for that and they make really nice big carry all grocery bags, too.

But, based on leaving on the bike, the townies are nice, light, simple, functional, and relatively inexpensive.

[NbyNW]

Maybe some thing like this (http://www.waldsports.com/index.cfm/wald582rearfoldingbasket.html), then?

And then you could just keep your ordinary shopping bags handy and put them inside.

[mariposa]

Wow, thanks everybody.

More questions:

1. What is it about panniers that can cause a heal clearance problem? Is it really long panniers (lengthwise parallel to the bike); really fat panniers (stick out a lot from the bike); or really deep panniers (vertically)?

2. I heard the best way to distribute weight is to get a pannier on each side. Is it bad to get just one pannier on one side? What about getting one of those baskets that go *on top* of the rear rack - I like the look of those a lot - but is the weight then too high off the ground?

3. Can I just lash my backpack to the side pannier stays on my rear rack? How do I keep it from bouncing around and getting into the wheel? Impossible?

Thanks again...
Mariposa

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Here are the grocery bag panniers I put on my bike:
http://harmonias.com/bikes/
See the blue Rivendell Rambouillet there.

They stopped making my panniers, but the others already pointed out on this thread are similar folding ones. You can put extra zip ties in several underneath spots which will deter impromptu thieves from just grabbing them and walking off. Then just take your grocery totes in with you.
I'd think that anything looking like a nice backpack left on your bike would get stolen more quickly.

[NbyNW]

Wow, thanks everybody.

More questions:

1. What is it about panniers that can cause a heal clearance problem? Is it really long panniers (lengthwise parallel to the bike); really fat panniers (stick out a lot from the bike); or really deep panniers (vertically)?


I'll give it a shot, and others might have other knowledge/experience to share. I think it's all of the above, combined with the dimensions of your bike. Probably safe to say most panniers are designed to fit on bikes sized for the middle of the bell curve and not have heel strike issues. If you have a smaller than average bike, you might have problems.

When I did my first trip with my shopping panniers folded in, I didn't notice them. Unfolded and full, I had a bit of heel strike, easily remedied by my foot position until I got home. Good thing it's not a far trip to the store. Later, I adjusted the clips as I mentioned above, so no more problems. So maybe that example addresses the fore/aft dimensions as well as "fat" dimension.

As for verticality, when I carry a pannier on my folder with 20" wheels, then the vertical dimension is an issue because the pannier is mounted from a lower point and thus you get heel strike. My folder is a Dahon, so I am essentially riding the same bike as someone who is maybe a foot taller than me. That tall rider is also having the same problem. I think on another thread a Bike Friday owner said they did not have this problem because their bike was custom designed to avoid this conflict.



2. I heard the best way to distribute weight is to get a pannier on each side. Is it bad to get just one pannier on one side? What about getting one of those baskets that go *on top* of the rear rack - I like the look of those a lot - but is the weight then too high off the ground?


Probably true, but I ride with one pannier all the time. Haven't felt really imbalanced, and I even carried a 3L jug of vegetable oil + veggies on my last trip to the store. Maybe it's more an issue if you're doing long-distance loaded touring?

I have an on-top basket I've clipped to the rear rack of my Dahon. (Haven't tried it on my mtb which is what I now use for shopping) It does move the weight up when it's loaded, and it's really noticeable since the Dahon's center of gravity is really low when it's not loaded. I figure if I didn't have anything to lean the bike against, a kickstand might come in handy. But so far I've managed with no problems.



3. Can I just lash my backpack to the side pannier stays on my rear rack? How do I keep it from bouncing around and getting into the wheel? Impossible?


You could try, maybe with a bungee cord? You'd want it to be really secure so that the backpack doesn't drop down. Or if you had the Wald folding baskets that I linked to above, the backpack would probably fit in one of those. I've seen people do that on campus. Those little bungee cargo nets are great for keeping things from bouncing out of the basket, BTW.

[mariposa]

Found a GREAT grocery pannier, long, deep and wide, used, at a bike parts store today. Not sure of the brand. But it's perfect. I could put my whole 33-liter backpack into it, full; and that's a pretty big backpack!

There is plenty of heal clearance - at least 4 inches. Turns out (according to my mechanic) I have a *great* rack for avoiding heal clearance...It is set back quite a bit from the saddle. It's the Axiom Strealiner series - made for (road & mountain) bikes that have neither the braze-ons nor the threaded dropouts usually found on commuters:

http://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Streamliner-Road-Rear-Black/dp/B0025UCXEO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1277001057&sr=8-1

As for other panniers: If I decide to get one on the other side...I think my heart is settled on one of those Basil Cardiff rear baskets.

- Mariposa