B17 problem

[Catrin]

My LHT has a B17 saddle. Prior to the bike conversion the saddle gave me no problems that I can recall - but considering how much pain OTHER parts were in it may have simply been that it wasn't up to the same level.

I did 26 miles today and noted rather significant discomfort (won't call it pain yet) way forward - how to describe this - not actually my soft girly bits, but before there - probably more of a pubic bone issue perhaps? There was some tissue involved, but that seemed secondary to the problem.

My fitter took a great deal of effort to make sure my saddle is level, so we know that. Would lowering it just a scooch take care of this, or cause others?

[KnottedYet]

Did your fitter measure the outside span of your sitbones, and the center-to-center span?

Don't forget the outer 1cm of each side of the saddle is metal cantle plate, and your body will tilt the pelvis or shift forward if that plate is too close to your sit bones. (it hurts)

And the big question is: did your fitter level THE WHOLE SADDLE or the NOSE ONLY?

If he's not familiar with Brooks, he might have missed that part. Which would make you hurt even if the saddle is the right width for your bones.

[KnottedYet]

BTW, you are best off starting with the NOSE ONLY levelled on a Brooks. The cantle should actually start off *higher* than the rest of the saddle.

Sounds to me like he leveled the whole saddle (pain in the front), but I am only guessing since I can't see it.

[Catrin]

BTW, you are best off starting with the NOSE ONLY levelled on a Brooks. The cantle should actually start off *higher* than the rest of the saddle.

Sounds to me like he leveled the whole saddle (pain in the front), but I am only guessing since I can't see it.

Yep, he leveled the entire saddle and measured the center-to-center span.... so he must not be aware of the difference. I am relieved about that, there were many fit issues with this bike before the fitting - which led to different bars and shifters. I so want this saddle to work that when it was the only part of the bike that hurt after I got my bike back that I wondered if I had just missed it before due to it hurting less than other things.

The cantile is the back of the saddle? So you are saying that the nose should be a little lower than the back or do I have this backwards?

Apparently my sit bones are 110.5 - which seems a little narrow to me. We did this twice, but I have wondered if my sit bones are a little close to the metal plate.

[Catrin]

I took my LHT back to the fitter today before riding. He was actually not surprised to see me - he had removed a tilt from the saddle the other day. He said that so much had changed with the bike that he wanted to start with a level saddle and go from here.

He was able to set it back to those first measurements from his notes and then we will see if more tweaking is needed. My LBS guarantees the fit for the life of the bike - any tweaking at all for any reason (including new parts) is free once that initial fitting has been paid for.

I did have a short ride this afternoon to just stretch some sore muscles from yesterday - and at least in that short distance it seemed fine. As I remember from yesterday the discomfort came after a few miles, but of course the real test will be a good longish ride - hopefully Tuesday evening.

Thanks for the input Knotted - and my saddle no longer looks level - the nose is just a little lower than the back.

[KnottedYet]

Yeah, that sounds better.

The nose of the saddle should be level, and the cantle rises up a bit above it. It's a common mistake, so no-one should ever give up on a leather saddle due to front-end pain if they haven't checked the saddle tilt first.

110 mm is probably your center-to-center measurement. Remember, the ischial tuberosities are kind of like the rockers on a rocking chair: they get wider apart as they move back. Depending on what part you actually sit on, it can be different.

Your outside-to-outside is likely not radically different, maybe a couple cm wider.

Lets play with the numbers, assuming 110mm for c-to-c, 130mm for o-to-o. A B17 is about 170mm wide. The cantle plate takes away the outer cm on each side, so the "sittable" portion is about 150mm. Your c-to-c needs to fit within that sittable range. 110mm easily fits within 150mm. Your o-to-o needs to fit within the over-all width of the saddle, with maybe some extra wiggle room if you worry the outsides of your ischial tuberosities will wollop the cantle plate. Assuming a 130mm or so o-to-o, you still have about a cm of wiggle on each side before you even get to the plate edge.

Rule of thumb:
o-to-o + a couple cm wiggle room = over all saddle width
c-to-c = center of saddle "cheek" to center of saddle "cheek."

This gets modified a bit when you look at Brooks, because of the cantle plate.

In any case, it sounds like the width of the B17 is fine for you. If you have problems later (and I mean later: break the saddle in first!) you might want to look at the "T" vs "pear" aspect. B17 is a bit more of a pear than say a B68. Pear shape might shift you forward and cause some trouble (but honestly, if you ride the saddle enough it will conform to your hip motion so the pear bit might not matter much unless it's drastically wrong for you). A B68, B18, or any other saddle from that family will be a bit more "T" shaped, but the width might just drive you nuts. (210mm vs 170mm)

Teach your fitter about leather saddles, and then ride Ride RIDE!

[indysteel]

Catrin, are you sure your fitting for the life of the bike at Nebo covers new parts? That is not my understanding of their policy.

[Catrin]

Catrin, are you sure your fitting for the life of the bike at Nebo covers new parts? That is not my understanding of their policy.

Yes, that is how both the fitter and the owner explained it to me. Jonathan said that has served them well in customer satisfaction and loyalty. I was surprised so repeated my understanding back to both fitter and owner to make sure that I had not misunderstood. Once the $200 fitting fee has been paid, OR if one purchases a bike from their store, no further fitting fees will be charged for that bike (same life-time fitting is free if you get your bike from them). This is great customer service as parts and labor are expensive enough! Jonathan said that when they go to conferences that other stores are always surprised that they offer such an extensive fitting service.

[indysteel]

Yes, that is how both the fitter and the owner explained it to me. Jonathan said that has served them well in customer satisfaction and loyalty. I was surprised so repeated my understanding back to both fitter and owner to make sure that I had not misunderstood. Once the $200 fitting fee has been paid, OR if one purchases a bike from their store, no further fitting fees will be charged for that bike (same fitting is free if you get your bike from them). This is great customer service as parts and labor are expensive enough!

I'll take your word for it, but having paid for a few parts out of pocket after fittings, that policy is news to me.

[Catrin]

I'll take your word for it, but having paid for a few parts out of pocket after fittings, that policy is news to me.

Ahh, perhaps I was unclear - it is the fitting fees that are not charged again - I did not mean the parts themselves. So they don't charge for adjusting the fit after putting new parts on the bike - for the life of the bike/your ownership. Sorry for any confusion. My first LBS would charge multiple fitting fees outside of the parts/labor - this is one of the reasons I switched...though not the main reason.

[Catrin]

Knotted - your advice was spot-on with my Brooks. The more I ride it after my fitter returned my saddle to how the FIRST fitter adjusted it the better it feels :)

I had no money for Proofhide after the rain last weekend, but did use some mink oil just to put something on the saddle after it got drenched. I will be getting Proofhide this weekend as everything I have read seems to indicate that it really is better to use than mink oil. Unsure why, but it isn't that expensive...

[Catrin]

Strange thing today at the Tour de Cure at which I rode 25 miles. At the end of the first 10 miles, my girly bits were quite uncomfortable. I stopped, took a 7-8 minute break, then continued. The remaining 15 miles were fine with no discomfort that I remember.

This seems odd to me, if nothing else I would expect the second half of the ride to be more uncomfortable than the first... thoughts anyone?

As uncomfortable as it became, it was still better than last Saturday before we adjusted the tilt of my saddle.

Added --->>> It just dawned on me what the problem probably is, the saddle probably just isn't broken in yet! I've had so many fit issues that my first assumption was that the saddle needed tweaking. I now have 150 miles on this saddle (110 miles in the last 8 days). so hopefully we are getting there.