Floyd Landis speaks...

[arielmoon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100520/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_landis_doping;_ylt=AjH7arSyx80.Ur.P7o4YkTwLMxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJpOXBka2dkBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTIwL2N5Y19sYW5kaXNfZG9waW5nBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNyZXBvcnRsYW5kaXM-

[zoom-zoom]

What a tool. So he's admitting he's a liar, then throwing his friends under the bus? Who does he expect to believe him?

[BikeDutchess]

Guess my copy of "Positively False" is on its way out to the recycling bin...

[Thorn]

When all this started, one of the biochemists here on TE said of the results
...so this either means Floyd is a plant or Floyd cheated...*

Well, ladies, it looks like we can finally rule out that he's a plant :eek:

*(http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=105391 post #10) -- one of my all time favorite TE quotes.

[Biciclista]

I just cannot understand what possesses healthy people to stick needles into their arms and.... ugh...
Why can't people just compete without all the BS?

[TrekTheKaty]

This really PEEVES me off! I always gave him the benefit of the doubt. I read the book (but didn't pay retail, just in case he DID cheat). He was so convincing. Even Lance stood up for him.

I had wondered what happened to Floyd. He hadn't been around racing this year. Is this for attention? Money? Another book? Blackmail? Why now?

Not the black eye for cycling we need while fighting the cancellation of state funds for the Tour of Missouri.

[Biciclista]

This really PEEVES me off! I always gave him the benefit of the doubt. I read the book (but didn't pay retail, just in case he DID cheat). He was so convincing. Even Lance stood up for him.

I had wondered what happened to Floyd. He hadn't been around racing this year. Is this for attention? Money? Another book? Blackmail? Why now?

Not the black eye for cycling we need while fighting the cancellation of state funds for the Tour of Missouri.

yeah really. Glad i didn't buy his stupid book. OR read it.

[Nanci]

Great timing, too. I bought his book and believed him.

[Triskeliongirl]

That was me:o

I hate to do the 'I told you so' but I have long given up on the idea that any of these guys are riding clean.

But to me its not just the riders fault, its the fans fault too, and what has become of the sport. They don't blow up those mountains on gu and water.........


When all this started, one of the biochemists here on TE said of the results

Well, ladies, it looks like we can finally rule out that he's a plant :eek:

*(http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?p=105391 post #10) -- one of my all time favorite TE quotes.

[maillotpois]

Great timing, too. I bought his book and believed him.

Me too.

(HI NANCI!!! :D )

[Triskeliongirl]

But you guys know, now I do admire Floyd for speaking out because he is trying to clean up the sport. Better late than never, like the rest of these guys.

[PscyclePath]

I had wondered what happened to Floyd. He hadn't been around racing this year. Is this for attention? Money? Another book? Blackmail? Why now?


OUCH_Bahati is a fairly small team... He was up here in northwest Arkansas the week before last, racing in the Joe Martin Stage Race there.

I bought the book, and pretty much believed it... but apparently even CyclingNews.com and VeloNews have their doubts about the latest story. And there _is_ apparently some sort of book deal in the works here.

[Biciclista]

wow, there was a Nanci sighting!!

Yes, right Trisk. But he came to our town, and looked into all of my friends' eyes and implored them... that makes me pretty mad.

[ny biker]

But you guys know, now I do admire Floyd for speaking out because he is trying to clean up the sport. Better late than never, like the rest of these guys.

I disagree. Anyone who keeps on lying and lying and lying while asking total strangers to donate money to pay his legal bills deserves nothing. I just feel bad for his mother.

David Millar did it right -- confessed immediately and was one of the first big names to join the first team that was built on an anti-drug policy.

And p.s. if DZ needs drugs then Garmin would be the last team he would want to race for.

[Nanci]

I disagree. Anyone who keeps on lying and lying and lying while asking total strangers to donate money to pay his legal bills deserves nothing. I just feel bad for his mother.


I agree. He's gotta be getting a huge paycheck for this. Probably an even better book deal; Poor Little Floyd Tells All. Insider's Guide To TDF Doping.

[TrekTheKaty]

I disagree. Anyone who keeps on lying and lying and lying while asking total strangers to donate money to pay his legal bills deserves nothing. I just feel bad for his mother.


What she said.........

[AMP]

Actually, I'm proud of Landis. I believe him when he says that he has to get it off his conscience. He's lately been working with underprivledged at risk kids, and it's my belief that he knows he can do no good with them unless he quits lying. And, trust me, he's about to be crucified publicly. Much like Greg LeMond who spoke out against blood doping and has lost most of his business and been dragged into ruinously expensive lawsuits. I'm proud of LeMond too.

In the AMGEN Tour, Dave Zabriskie is wearing the yellow jersey and Levi Leipheimer is right at his heels. Two of the individuals Landis named. Folks are NOT going to be happy.

This month's copy of Bicycling magazine has Armstrong mentioned 60 times.

There is enormous money behind the scenes: Trek, Oakley, fi'zik, Radioshack...so many others.

Then we get to Lance's work with cancer research and his foundation. And we have to ask ourselves if the good that comes out of blood doping outweighs the bad. Incredibly tough moral/ethical landscape to navigate. But I also believe we MUST examine these issues; you and me, the ordinary people. And I insist that we must inform ourselves dispassionately: read, read, read; examine sources, and think, reason our way through.

On Sunday I stood with crowds in my small sweet town of Auburn as we watched the AMGEN tour race through. I whistled for Fabian Cancellara and team SaxoBank. I had tears in my eyes as I took in all the little children wearing jerseys and helmuts, dressed like their heroes to cheer the race, waving American flags.

Blood doping is the destruction of this sport and will ultimtley turn it into no more than pro wrestling.

BICYCLING MAGAZINE this month has an article about amateurs injecting steroids to win over a pair of socks. (Yeah, I know it's not the socks, it's the ego, but it's a compelling read.)

What gets me about blood doping is that a rider still has to train just as hard, and actually, can train harder and recover faster.
Should r-EPO be legalized? What will it take to level the playing field? Should there be two standards? One for riders who train naturally and one for those who use steroids and r-EPO?

Two months ago when I started to get back into cycling, I started reading and what I found sickened me. Try googling "blood doping, cycling." For once in my life I didn't shy away from what I didn't want to know, didn't want to hear. And this was one of those times I went from being a girl to being a woman. There is doping and it is terrible.

Getting back to Landis who "drank the kool aid," got caught, tried to bluster and lie, and utimately told the truth. Now watch the show as he gets his skin flayed off. Whoosh.

I'm such a coward I'm debating whether I can post this.

As Bob Newhart said, "I make a motion that we face reality."

[kacie tri-ing]

This really PEEVES me off! I always gave him the benefit of the doubt. I read the book (but didn't pay retail, just in case he DID cheat). He was so convincing. Even Lance stood up for him.

I had wondered what happened to Floyd. He hadn't been around racing this year. Is this for attention? Money? Another book? Blackmail? Why now?

Not the black eye for cycling we need while fighting the cancellation of state funds for the Tour of Missouri.

NOOOOOO I believed him too!!!!! I really really did :-(

I checked it out of the library, BUT I still believed him. I am so sad!!!

[Biciclista]

AMP of course you can post !
Lance could have been a hero without the dope. Maybe he wouldn't have won so many times.

[TrekTheKaty]

Getting back to Landis who "drank the kool aid," got caught, tried to bluster and lie, and utimately told the truth. Now watch the show as he gets his skin flayed off. Whoosh.

I'm such a coward I'm debating whether I can post this.

As Bob Newhart said, "I make a motion that we face reality."

Excellent point. So maybe Landis shouldn't have been stripped of the TDF win. He beat all the other dopers fair and square. He just got caught because he was the winner.

I do realize that the whole sport is corrupt. I think the public was naive to think they could clean it up all in one year. I believe Lance is innocent, too. I was hoping he came back to prove he could race against all the "newer, cleaner" riders. But maybe it's all a joke on us.

I also experienced a local bike race, where there was a kids race during the intermission. Little boys and girls in their (at the time) Discovery "kits" throwing elbows just to get to the start line. How do we explain that to the kids? I don't know.

I'd go back to Nascar, but they just threw out Jeremy Mayfield. Apparently, there's more than moonshine and "black gold in them-there-hills".

[kacie tri-ing]

I am just posting again because I am still so upset! :mad::mad::mad:

[arielmoon]

Another article here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100520/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_landis_doping;_ylt=AjH7arSyx80.Ur.P7o4YkTwLMxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJpOXBka2dkBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTIwL2N5Y19sYW5kaXNfZG9waW5nBGNwb3MDMQRwb3MDMgRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3J5BHNsawNyZXBvcnRsYW5kaXM-

"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport," McQuaid told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Thursday. "If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it."

"What's his agenda?" McQuaid said. "The guys is seeking revenge. It's sad, it's sad for cycling. It's obvious he does hold a grudge."

[ny biker]

I also experienced a local bike race, where there was a kids race during the intermission. Little boys and girls in their (at the time) Discovery "kits" throwing elbows just to get to the start line. How do we explain that to the kids? I don't know.


Same way you explain the baseball players. "They cheated because they were greedy and it's bad to cheat."

I worry more about the older kids who play sports and might be coerced by coaches to use steroids or otherwise conned into thinking they should use drugs.

[AMP]

Just got off the phone with my DH who was listening to the Jim Rome show on the radio (I love his show; he can translate ballsport talk so I don't sound like an idiot at any male/female social gathering. Excellent resource when no one lets you talk about horses or bikes. It's a sports call in show.)

Rome said that the wrath has already begun. He's felt it himself just by bringing doping up, not accusing anyone.

I really think that Landis knows everyone dopes, and initally felt that he shouldn't get picked on if everyone does it. Then I think he thought that because he saw how Armstrong has handled all the accusations, he could just keep denying.

His suspension is over. He could have kept his mouth shut, but like David Millar, he had to 'fess. No, he's not the class act that Millar was and he's in for a trouncing big time.

I think he thinks he deserves it. His father-in-law committed suicide during all the hoopla in '06.

There are getting to be many, many suicides and attempts in procycling. I think that these boys start out with the highest of aspirations and then succumb to "everybody's doing it." They can't take the mental pressure.

[SheFly]

Be careful about vindicating him for "fessing up". He's had PLENTY of opportunity for that before now - in the middle of a very publicized Tour in the US. In the supposed email (posted on DrunkCyclist), there is a line to the effect that he is trying to write down in a story, everything that has happened. To me, that screams book deal.

Don't get me wrong - I was a Tyler believer for over two years, and legitimately believed Floyd too. I just don't think that he should be let off the hook now - he lied to a lot of people, including his Mennonite parents. The timing and motives are, as McQuaid said, rather suspect.

SheFly

[kenyonchris]

I agree. He's gotta be getting a huge paycheck for this. Probably an even better book deal; Poor Little Floyd Tells All. Insider's Guide To TDF Doping.

Absolutely. When it becomes more profitable to confess than to continue to deny, confession becomes a business decision.

[Thorn]

When it becomes more profitable to confess than to continue to deny, confession becomes a business decision.

You one-upped me in the cynic department...although I don't at all disagree with your assessment.

But, as long as there is money to be made, someone, somewhere will find a way to cheat.

[zoom-zoom]

Lance gives his side of things:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/armstrong-rejects-landis-allegations?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines

[tangentgirl]

I wonder which reality show he's heading for?

[ny biker]

Jonathan Vaughters also commented:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/garmins-jonathan-vaughters-on-floyd-landis-allegations-we-will-win-the-tour-of-california-and-win-it-clean_117464

And bikesnob nyc has a nice overview of the whole Landis affair:

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2010/05/riding-dirty-coming-clean-all-you.html

[Bike Chick]

I like Bikesnob's suggestion that Landis truly redeem himself by returning all the money. The whole thing sickens me. Honor has been left on the roadside.

[Tri Girl]

wow. I believed him.
It makes me cranky all these athletes who vehemently deny doping for years, then come clean to clear their consciences. If they really wanted to do that, they would have come clean right away.
And I'm probably going to go down with the ship, but I just can't believe Lance doped.
I know it happens. I know it's real.
It's just sad...:(

[AMP]

Loved NY Biker's links. I was so upset about the whole doping thing and went off on an impassioned rant. I totally apologize. After reading the Bike Snob's take and then all the posts after, I just started laughing. Those 'roid boys do talk smack.

Got my perspective back. The world goes on.

I think I was too quick to give Landis credit for 'fessing. Guess my brain was trying to figure some purity here somewhere. Forget that.

Think I'm gonna go play with my pretty new bike and forget all the nasty stuff.

[jobob]

I read the book (but didn't pay retail, just in case he DID cheat).

That made me laugh out loud. Thanks! :D

[Possegal]

A year or so ago we had a speaker at our weekly scientific rounds, and it was the chief scientist for USADA. He started the talk out by saying something like - the lawyers have informed me that I am absolutely not to talk to you about Floyd Landis, other than to say that this has taken over my life for the last X years. :) His talk was very interesting, sort of a 'sports doping through the years'. He gave some case reports without naming the athletes. A few of us in the room knew where his chimera data was coming from!

I believed Floyd had doped, however I didn't believe he was a habitual doper. That admission caught me by surprise.

[kenyonchris]

Actually, I'm proud of Landis. I believe him when he says that he has to get it off his conscience. He's lately been working with underprivledged at risk kids, and it's my belief that he knows he can do no good with them unless he quits lying. And, trust me, he's about to be crucified publicly. Much like Greg LeMond who spoke out against blood doping and has lost most of his business and been dragged into ruinously expensive lawsuits. I'm proud of LeMond too.



Uh...wow. I'll bite.
Not for ONE MINUTE do I think he is doing it because he is lying awake at night worrying about his street cred with the poor kids. Sorry if that sounds cynical (more cynical than my original post). His timing, the inflammatory statements, the very poor manner in which he has staged this "confession" and the connected allegations are all incredibly suspect as to the validity of his motives.

[ny biker]

To hear the boys from Radio Shack tell it, Floyd is just pissed off because (a) Johan refused to give him a job and (b) he didn't get to race in the Tour of California this year.

Which brings me to my next point -- if you're going to accuse Lance and Johan of something, you'd better have your ducks in a row, because they are smart strategists with plenty of experience handling the media and plenty of good lawyers.

[smilingcat]

I'm too jaded... Let the soap opra continue and when the credits roll, we may have some thin truth.

Mr. Landis comes across more as a psychopathic liar in which even a seasoned police interogators and trained psychologist can't tell if the subject is telling the truth or not. I asked a veteran narcotics investigator about how to tell if a psychopathic liar is telling the truth or not. His reply was "LOL, when you figure it out, let us know"

soo Mr. Landis comments are non-sequitor at best. I wouldn't lose sleep over what he says.

[Selkie]

I never believed him, and I didn't think he was a good liar. But smilingcat is right, Mr. Landis seems to have issues...

The guy has disgraced himself in a very public way. If he's genuinely sorry, he will return the money.

I wonder if his next sporting event will be boxing Tanya Harding? Dancing with the Stars?

[Bike Chick]

I was such a fan of his at the Tour de France and really wanted to believe him. It was a storybook finish and I so wanted it not to be true even though my gut was telling me it probably was. Even last year at the Tour of Missouri, he was one of the riders I sought out after the race and still didn't want to believe it was true. Now he's acting like a spoiled little kid and showing his rear.

Am I just ignorant? I feel so betrayed by him, Mark McGuire, Sammy Sosa, and on and on and on. What do we expect, though? When you dangle that much money and fame on a stick, athletes are going to be tempted to do whatever they can to grab it.

[Tri Girl]

What do we expect, though? When you dangle that much money and fame on a stick, athletes are going to be tempted to do whatever they can to grab it.

And that's exactly what's wrong with our society. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, teachers, police officers, nurses, etc get paid pennies and are the ones actually doing something worthwhile with their life (sorry, I don't think professional athlete's jobs are truly meaningful in a society).


Sorry- back to the original post (I'll step down from my soapbox).


Kenyonchris- I totally agree with you!! This was not about doing what's right- it's about his selfish agenda.

[Norse]

I think Landis may have some mental health issues. That does not excuse the fact that he is also a lying POS who basically stole money from innocent people - what he did was no different than a con artist, a felon.

[jobob]

I think Landis may have some mental health issues. That does not excuse the fact that he is also a lying POS who basically stole money from innocent people - what he did was no different than a con artist, a felon.

Well, I suppose one could argue that anyone who lies through their teeth and steals money from innocent, trusting people has mental health issues.

But I get your point -- he probably didn't start out as a lying POS; a combination of the environment he was in, the circumstances he was under, and his own personal emotional/psychological/physiological response to those factors led to all this.

That'll be five cents, please. :cool:

[Norse]

Well, I suppose one could argue that anyone who lies through their teeth and steals money from innocent, trusting people has mental health issues.



It's not just the incredible lying while begging for money, it's the weirdo sex phone call he had placed to Lemond, the middle of the night harrassing texts and emails, trying to hack into the lab's computer system.... I just think the guy is warped.

[Jiffer]

Yeah, this totally bums me out. I even met Floyd at a thing he did at our LBS and my husband had a "epic ride" with him. Still have photos of the event in our bike cabinet. Not to mention hubby read his book, bought the book for others and was given the book as a gift by at least two or three people. He seemed to lean toward believing Floyd, but luckily was never 100% convinced.

As for Lance, however, hubby says he's the most tested athlete in the world. The winners of the big races always get tested and when they do random testing, Lance seems to "randomly" get tested far more than anyone else. He has also been tested voluntarily many times, because he wants to prove he's clean. So, hubby has a harder time believing that accusation. I really hope the accusation is false. Nine Tour de France wins and one of the biggest names in sports. What a let down that would be.

[ridebikeme]

Well, like many of you I find this very upsetting. And if the truth be known, i truly did believe in the innocence of Tyler.

At any rate, after reading all of these emails, emails that were posted by Radioshak... it still does not set very well with me. There's still something that is missing from all of this.( at least that is what my gut tells me) I thought about this alot today, while walking the dogs, work, and then doing yoga tonight. The one thing that keeps popping in my head is why did Frankie Andreau, Greg Lemond and now Floyd all accuse Lance of doping? All at different times, but still the threat is there. Truly I want to believe that Lance is clean and that this is a misunderstanding, jealously or whatever... but the fact remains that many many cyclists have cheated and have for many years. How is it that a "clean" cyclist could compete and conquer against these people for so long? Obviously he has always had a very strong team, but is his strong will and strong team the only reason?

I don't know the answer(s), but what I do hope for is that the truth comes out, and that all of the doping procedures be reevaluated and all members of a team, director, cyclists, massage therapist, etc... be strongly evaluated as well. Whether now or sometime in the future, the truth will come out and I hope that the rest of the sporting world is listening and taking notes.

[tiva]

Doping has a long, long history in cycling. The wikipedia article is pretty amazing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

From the very beginning of cycle racing, doping has been a big part of it. Doping wasn't even outlawed in racing until the 1960s. In 1930, doping was so accepted that the organizers of the Tour de France warned racers that they'd have to bring their own drugs; the tour organizers weren't going to be giving them away for free anymore.

I'm not saying doping is safe--look at all the racers who have died from bad drugs. But it's part of the sport and it always has been, so why not just regulate it for professional racers, making it safer and fairer? That way, most racers wouldn't get an advantage that the very few people who abide by the rules don't get. Cycle racing could become like cross-country ski racing (which has separate races for classic technique, and for the much faster skate technique--faster, but for a while, outlawed.) Divide races into two classes: drugged and undrugged. Let racers chose which class they want to race in, and let doctors regulate the drugging so it stops killing racers.

[OakLeaf]

I like Andy Borowitz's interpretation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/angered-by-steroid-accusa_b_584735.html)...

[TrekTheKaty]

Oakleaf, that's hilarious :)

[TrekTheKaty]

tiva, this was a good article.

I was discussing Floyd with a friend who is a chemist. I asked why no one had died from messing around with drugs--but apparently they have!

[itself]

Let's think about this. The Tour de France is a 21 day event. These guys ride at top speeds for over one hundred miles each day...

NONE of them are clean. Physically impossible to do this event at this level and be clean.

[Skierchickie]

Cycle racing could become like cross-country ski racing (which has separate races for classic technique, and for the much faster skate technique--faster, but for a while, outlawed.)

Actually, the skating technique just came along relatively recently - I don't think it was ever outlawed. Once it caught on, they realized that nobody would do the classic technique in a race, ever again, if they didn't separate out the 2 techniques. For a few years, while I was in college, you had to skate or you'd always place poorly - but either technique was allowed. Anyway, it became clear that what is now known as the classic technique would just die out if they didn't do something to save it.

I'm not sure it's as simple as just separating cycling into "with" and "without" categories. In a perfect world, where everyone is honest, but that's the opposite of what what we're dealing with here. The guys who cheat now will cheat, for the same reasons they cheat now. Why would someone that intent on winning at all costs want to race with a bunch of dopers, given a choice? I'd be willing to bet that at least a few people who would be willing to dope would also be willing to enter the "clean" category - and have an unfair advantage. It could possibly turn into a doper's dream scenario.

Money, money, money. And rock-star fame. But mostly money. The guys who are doping (and I'm still stubbornly and naively clinging to the dream that it isn't everyone) are doping for the money, and are willing to risk everything to do it. Why would that change? I think the consequences aren't strict enough to be a deterrent.

Boo Floyd! Boo Floyd for doping. Boo Floyd for lying. Boo Floyd for stealing. And boo Floyd for trying to sabotage everyone else as he's going down. I really have to think there is some mental illness there - it's just too weird. My DH thinks he's getting paid.

[OakLeaf]

Paint me cynical.

But the bottom line is that regardless of who was or was not technically breaking the rules, "doping" and biotech generally is regulated, not banned. I'm sure there's no one active in professional sport who's never had sport-related surgery; tweaked their body position in a wind tunnel; used caffeine, ibuprofen, lab-tested amino acid combinations or other substances that are legal in sport; etc., etc., etc. I mean, if all drugs were banned to all competitors, Lance would probably be dead, right (or more realistically, have never competed after his diagnosis)?

Sport is about rules. Rules by definition have a point at which they are completely arbitrary, and the sanctioning body just has to draw a line somewhere. The job of everyone on any team in any sport is to find a way around the rules. Sometimes people get carried away and go through instead of around. And then it's the sanctioning body's job to disqualify them, whether the violation is taking steroids or wearing a string around one's wrist (http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/topofthetimes/callocal/la-me-lopezcolumn-20100516,0,7543599.column).

[Skierchickie]

Cycle racing could become like cross-country ski racing (which has separate races for classic technique, and for the much faster skate technique--faster, but for a while, outlawed.)

Actually, the skating technique just came along relatively recently - I don't think it was ever outlawed. Once it caught on, they realized that nobody would do the classic technique in a race, ever again, if they didn't separate out the 2 techniques. For a few years, while I was in college, you had to skate or you'd always place poorly - but either technique was allowed. Anyway, it became clear that what is now known as the classic technique would just die out if they didn't do something to save it.

I'm not sure it's as simple as just separating cycling into "with" and "without" categories. In a perfect world, where everyone is honest, but that's the opposite of what what we're dealing with here. The guys who cheat now will cheat, for the same reasons they cheat now. Why would someone that intent on winning at all costs want to race with a bunch of dopers, given a choice? I'd be willing to bet that at least a few people who would be willing to dope would also be willing to enter the "clean" category - and have an unfair advantage. It could possibly turn into a doper's dream scenario.

Money, money, money. And rock-star fame. But mostly money. The guys who are doping (and I'm still stubbornly and naively clinging to the dream that it isn't everyone) are doping for the money, and are willing to risk everything to do it. Why would that change? I think the consequences aren't strict enough to be a deterrent.

Boo Floyd! Boo Floyd for doping. Boo Floyd for lying. Boo Floyd for stealing. And boo Floyd for trying to sabotage everyone else as he's going down. I really have to think there is some mental illness there - it's just too weird. My DH thinks he's getting paid.

[jobob]

Here's an interesting article
http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd


At the same time, at no point did I think Landis was innocent, or that he hadn't been doping. But every time I'd see him talk about it, I felt like he was always winking while he did it. My understanding of Floyd's position went something like this: "Oh **** yes I doped. I doped just like everyone else did. I did not invent doping, and I understood that at the level I was at, it was part of my job description, like Lance, like George. So why should I be the only one who goes down for it?" I saw Landis fighting the charges not because he hadn't doped, because like all his peers, he had. I saw him fighting it because he thought the system was ****ed up, and I mean the whole system. The team he was on that encouraged him to dope, the labs that didn't follow their own rules, the UCI that had its own interests to protect. Why would any of us expect Floyd to "do the right thing" here, and in his mind, take the fall or be the scapegoat for a system he participated in by choice, but that he sure didn't invent?

[Skierchickie]

Cycle racing could become like cross-country ski racing (which has separate races for classic technique, and for the much faster skate technique--faster, but for a while, outlawed.)

Actually, the skating technique just came along relatively recently - I don't think it was ever outlawed. Once it caught on, they realized that nobody would do the classic technique in a race, ever again, if they didn't separate out the 2 techniques. For a few years, while I was in college, you had to skate or you'd always place poorly - but either technique was allowed. Anyway, it became clear that what is now known as the classic technique would just die out if they didn't do something to save it.

I'm not sure it's as simple as just separating cycling into "with" and "without" categories. In a perfect world, where everyone is honest, but that's the opposite of what what we're dealing with here. The guys who cheat now will cheat, for the same reasons they cheat now. Why would someone that intent on winning at all costs want to race with a bunch of dopers, given a choice? I'd be willing to bet that at least a few people who would be willing to dope would also be willing to enter the "clean" category - and have an unfair advantage. It could possibly turn into a doper's dream scenario.

Money, money, money. And rock-star fame. But mostly money. The guys who are doping (and I'm still stubbornly and naively clinging to the dream that it isn't everyone) are doping for the money, and are willing to risk everything to do it. Why would that change? I think the consequences aren't strict enough to be a deterrent.

Boo Floyd! Boo Floyd for doping. Boo Floyd for lying. Boo Floyd for stealing. And boo Floyd for trying to sabotage everyone else as he's going down. I really have to think there is some mental illness there - it's just too weird. My DH thinks he's getting paid.

[tiva]

Actually, the skating technique just came along relatively recently - I don't think it was ever outlawed. Once it caught on, they realized that nobody would do the classic techniqu

You're right: after the 1985 world championships in Seefeld, there was a lot of talk about banning it, with the Norwegians in particular pushing for a ban. But then the FIS agreed to separate out the races instead. http://northernlightsonline.blogspot.com/2006/12/nordic-skate-revolution.html

[AMP]

But Armstrong did test positive for EPO, he just couldn't be sanctioned because the samples were "B" samples. His people said he was exonerted; I'd hardly call it that. Like, Yeah, OJ was acquitted. There are many, many people who are speaking out about doping and, yes, going after Armstrong. I cannot begin to imagine the frustration of people who know the truth and have to listen to the DAMAGE CONTROL spin.
Also, Landis's emails went to the UCI and were leaked by someone there to the Wall Street Journal. Landis did not go to the press. Insofar as Landis's lying is concerned, is it any different from Armstrong's? Bold denials, payoffs, books written, appeals to the public....
My brother refers to Lance as Pharmstrong.

"Now finally the cycling community will realize that doping should be required of all riders in the tour. Testing should be used to merely confirm riders have the minimum levels of dope in their systems. That way it will be fair."

For a less cynical viewpoint try www.bikepure.org

[PinkBike]

i'm so upset over this.

i believed floyd. he came to tucson and asked for money for his defense fund. a lot of his defense attorneys' fees were donated. i bought and loaned his book to friends. it had compelling arguments. i had a letter published in "cycle sport" in his defense, for cripes sake.

i believed tyler. the first time. i don't believe ANYBODY anymore.

i'm just sickened by it all. how can a person look you in the eyes and lie to you?

i agree with the psychological issues diagnosis. when you read his comments and retrace all his actions he seems really out there. i think he is at the very least bitter. mad at lance because lance was mean to him after he left postal for phonak. mad at the sport for not allowing his team to race the tour of california.

as for the mention of lemond and andreau, lemond is REALLY bitter, and it wasnt frankie it was his wife.

i'm done with all this.

[ridebikeme]

With everything i've read, it was indeed Frankie AND his wife, that's something that just came to light not too long ago because Frankie and Lance had had their first conversaion since all of this. Regardless of who talked with whom, there's a scenerio that keeps popping up. That scenerio is jealousy/bitterness , whatever you want to call it... and I'm beginning to believe that there is a reason for it. I'm not sure what will come of this situation, but there will come a time where we WILL know the truth. AS others have mentioned, the TDF is simply too long and rode at such incredible speed that the human body isn't designed for that... at least not without help.

At any rate, the next few weeks will be interesting.

[arielmoon]

AMP when was that?


Here's an interesting article
http://www.cycle-smart.com/blog/2010/05/20/pretty-boy-floyd
very interesting indeed


I like Andy Borowitz's interpretation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/angered-by-steroid-accusa_b_584735.html)...

Now that is funny!

[TrekTheKaty]

I forwarded the Borowitz article to a friend. Her reply was, "was stupid paper printed that? I don't think Lance could lift a car!"

Have some coffee and try again...........

[Thorn]

I look forward to Andy Borowitz's take on things....even when the artciles are so-so, the titles almost always get me chuckling. I missed this one. Thanks Oak.

But, as a cynic, it may just be the quotes picked out for articles, but I don't see the riders saying things like, "I never doped. I'm clean and always have been." No, you see, "Floyd's accusations are not founded", "Responding to these accusations is beneath me", "I've never tested positive" or my favorite style, "I've been in this sport for N years and have developed a reputation for honesty and integrity." All fine but they don't say anything. The only denials I've seen come from 1-2 people away from the rider (coach, trainer, doctor, etc).

[kenyonchris]

I forwarded the Borowitz article to a friend. Her reply was, "was stupid paper printed that? I don't think Lance could lift a car!"

Have some coffee and try again...........

That is as funny as the article. Blond moment.

[ny biker]

AS others have mentioned, the TDF is simply too long and rode at such incredible speed that the human body isn't designed for that... at least not without help.

I don't know who's doing what, and I admit that every time someone races way better than anyone else I wonder what he might taking.

On the other hand, Laurent Fignon has admitted to doping during his career, and Greg LeMond beat him in the TdF. So do we assume that LeMond must have doped also? That would make him a pretty ferocious hypocrite.

I do think that there are many cyclists racing today that are clean. For starters, I might be naive, but I believe that the guys on Garmin would not bother joining that team unless they intended to ride clean. And they're awfully successful.

[snapdragen]

:o Dammit. I still like Floyd. I'm sad, disappointed, I pretty much have stopped watching bike races, I don't trust any of them when they way they are clean. But, for some unexplainable reason, I like the guy. Maybe because he has corgis. :rolleyes:

I like this from the article jobob posted:

"So burn down Babylon. Burn pro cycling down. There will still be racing, there will still be races. Burn it down, so we can build it up again new. I condemn Landis' original decision to participate in a corrupt, immoral system. But I'll stand in front of the flames with him and watch it burn."

[kenyonchris]

:o
"So burn down Babylon. Burn pro cycling down. There will still be racing, there will still be races. Burn it down, so we can build it up again new. I condemn Landis' original decision to participate in a corrupt, immoral system. But I'll stand in front of the flames with him and watch it burn."

EVERY system has some corrupt aspects, and opportunities to do the wrong thing. That does not mean that the entire thing is corrupt. Landis made "wrong decision" in deciding to cheat. The problem is, he then did it again. THEN he lied about it, took people's money under false pretenses (which is stealing), perjured himself (several times), and tried to leverage others to get what he wanted. He did not participate in an immoral system, he made the system immoral by participating in that behavior. HE IS A CRIMINAL (on at least one count, he has admitted to lying under oath at the least). Standing next to a criminal and burning the system does not make him accountable. I think that quote is ridiculous.

Landis's "original decision" to dope is just the tip of the iceburg. That affected a small group of people. To lie, to steal, to perjure, to effectively attempt to blackmail...the list goes on. Far beyond a "wrong decision."

Corgis or not. He's a criminal.

[AMP]

Here are some jumping off places for blood doping in professional cycling:
*David Walsh, sportswriter for The London Times co-wrote
L.A. Confidentiel: Les Secrets de Lance Armstrong. I don't believe this book has been translated from the French.
*He also wrote From Lance to Landis.
*I also watched an hour-long interview with Greg Lemond on YouTube. The man is an artless speaker and not particularly charismatic; there was no slick "spin," but he convinced me of the problem of doping. I watched him and cried.

*www.velocitynation.com has a 4/20/2009 article with physiologist Michael Asheden that lays out the EPO testing ol Lance Armstrong.
Also same site today: Armstrong's former wife is cooperating with the invesigation.
These are just the briefest of starts.

Frankly there's just too much written on the subject of blood doping for me to ignore, pretend, or try to blame the French (which alarmingly keeps popping up.)

It is sad. But I would rather take the guy who came in dead last clean than a winner who cheats.
I don't buy the jealousy angle. Anger, yeah. But why isn't anyone attacking Michael Phelps if this is all about jealousy? Are cyclists the only jealous athletes?
The more I read about this, the more the subject of Omerta keeps coming up. There's just too much money involved. My husband read that the difference between doping and not doping is competing in world class races and million dollar deals or working in a bike shop.
I'm glad this spotlight is on the sport. I hope it does the good it's meant to.
My hero at this point is special agent Jeff Novitzky who led the investigtion against Barry Bonds and Marion Jones and will be lead on this one.
The professional racing side of the sport needs a thorough scrubbing.
'Nuff said.

[tctrek]

I think if Floyd was compelled to 'fess up and admit he was doping, that's fine. What I hate is that he is talking about 16 other riders that he says are doping. He didn't need to do that. I don't know what his angle is or why he's doing it, but that was over the top and unnecessary.

[maillotpois]

Here are some jumping off places for blood doping in professional cycling:
*David Walsh, sportswriter for The London Times co-wrote
L.A. Confidentiel: Les Secrets de Lance Armstrong. I don't believe this book has been translated from the French.

I read the book when it came out. I wasn't all that impressed, honestly. It was a lot of innuendo and trying to link Lance's cancer with his alleged prior drug use.

[Thorn]

*www.velocitynation.com has a 4/20/2009 article with physiologist Michael Asheden that lays out the EPO testing ol Lance Armstrong.


Fascinating read. Thanks.

[Tri Girl]

i think if floyd was compelled to 'fess up and admit he was doping, that's fine. What i hate is that he is talking about 16 other riders that he says are doping.

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