Fun With Relatives - kind of long

[Norse]

I have been struggling with an issue over the past week and DP suggested seeking advice from someone not close to my family, in other words, the unbiased TE community. To go into all the details would involve a book, so I'll try to condense:

My only living grandparent, my 87 year old grandma, bless her stubborn, opinionated heart, is loveable and fun but we have to try to ignore her need to always be right, her guilt trips if you do not agree with her and the fact that she believes that her children have never and can never, ever do anything wrong. We lost my dad (who was her favorite child, and my aunt knows this) within the past year - so we're all dealing with that upset (and the guilt trips that we don't stop by and visit her frequently enough...) and her daughter lives half the country away and for bizarre reasons hardly visits and does not have grandma down (aunt's partner does not like grandma, but um.. aunty, the house is half yours). Even though this upsets grandma, she is willing to make excuses for daughter and continues to believe daughter is a saint who can do no wrong.

Aunt lives in neighboring state from my sis, who gave birth to multiples about 10 years ago. At the time, my family lamented, and still does, that we live so far away and can't help her and her kids as much as we could if they didn't live at the end of the country. Aunt, at the time of birth said, "hey, no that's great she lives in bum-blankety-blank cause I am close and can visit often and help!" Long story short, aunt has only been down a few times. My aunt, bless her heart, does not like to deal with the difficult things in life -multiples are not 24 hours of fun, which she quickly learned and my sis and bro in law are not the happiest of couples - so, aunty has not done much.

Recently, out of the blue - and likely b/c aunt was complaining to grandma- grandma proclaimed that "aunt has done everything she possibly can to help my sis and the kids" and then demanded that we (mom, me, brother....) agree. Um... we didn't. She has since sent me a letter saying, basically, my comments (not agreeing with her) were hurtful to her "especially after everything aunty did for us kids and what has our other aunt done?" Two things here, 1, apparently what aunty did for us as kids absolves her from anything later in life and 2, "other" aunt is one of several aunts and uncles, but the only other childless aunt, lives completely across the country, has more than twice as many nieces and nephs as grandma's daughter and is my mom's only living sister and my mom and I are quite close to her - I believe other aunty and grandma resent this.

So, I am struggling with how to respond to grandma. I can't let it go unspoken on the one hand, on the other, she's 87, I am never going to change her opinions and I don't want some rift the last few years of her life (she holds a grudge). I can't call because she will not listen. This is well known in my family. I have been working on a response letter but torn about it and trying to keep the tone perfectly balanced is trying. Grandma is supposed to come up to our place a few weeks from now, but letting it fester that long is also not good. Also, with a sit down chat, she doesn't listen very well - hears what she wants to hear. I've got the response letter about as good as I can get it, but knowing grandma this may very well cause her to say "I am not coming up to your place later this month, you hurt me." Logic does not work very well on grandma, it just doesn't. What to do?:confused:

[shootingstar]

I barely could figure out the whole family interrelationships. :p

..however, don't know of your mother's position or maybe she is not in good health herself.

Seems like your mother should deal with as her mother-in-law. Not certain why you need to shoulder the burden to answer for everyone else in at your location in the country.

Hopefully there are services in the local community for grandmother where she can have a nurse check on her or money to hire someone part-time..

Grandma is laying on the guilt-trip big time.

Good luck!

[PamNY]

Can your response focus on how much you love all the parties involved and how important they are to you? You are sorry for disagreements, you thank them for their insights, you realize that people inevitably have different points of view. Most important: you have seen so many families torn apart by trivial differences and you are thankful that she, grandma, is not the type of person who would let that happen.

Then move on to something current and positive and simply refuse to be sucked into the argument.

Good luck. These things are always difficult and, I think, sometimes hopeless.

[Norse]

Yes, sorry, it is kind of confusing. My mom cannot be the one to deal with it though. If she knew the snippy remark grandma made in her letter to me about "other" aunt, aka, my mom's sister, I think that would put my mom over the edge in her long, precarious relationship with my grandma. I am the oldest of my siblings and I guess, considered the statesperson in our family.

Help for grandma? That's another thing, she lives in an apt complex for elders, and they have services available, she just doesn't like to use them. She would prefer the family make sure she gets to all her appointments and stops to visit frequently (she noted that my dad stopped every day - I guess she expects the same from others). I am just lucky I don't live in the same town, but my mom and a sibling are the frequent recipients of that guilt trip.

I long ago deemed grandma, Master of the Guilt Trip.

[tulip]

How about just agreeing with your grandma that it's hard to raise children, and harder to raise multiples. Agree with her on that much and don't argue with her on the rest.

Frankly, I'm finding myself defending your Aunt. Your Aunt did not choose to have your sister's babies. Why is it up to your Aunt to "help out?" just because she's the closest geographically (and the next state isn't like down the street, but even if she was down the street...it's not her responsibility)? What about the other family members? If it's truly a crisis, people move, people take turns, people do what's necessary.

However, it does not seem like a crisis situation. Just normal, hard, multiple children thing. How many kids are we talking about? There are other support systems for families of multiples. It's not easy, but I don't see why it falls to your Aunt to be the family support person. Afterall, she has a life, too.

Back to Grandma, she may truly believe that your Aunt has bent over backwards. You don't have to agree, but as you said, she's stubborn. Perhaps her support of your Aunt is a backsided way of being mad at the rest of the family for not helping out more.

Best of luck to you and your family.

[tulip]

... She would prefer the family make sure she gets to all her appointments and stops to visit frequently (she noted that my dad stopped every day - I guess she expects the same from others). I am just lucky I don't live in the same town, but my mom and a sibling are the frequent recipients of that guilt trip...

I'm sorry, but this bothers me. It's okay for your Aunt to be expected to go to the next state to help with your sister and family, but not okay for the family closest (geographically) to your grandma to help out with her?

This just seems like a double standard.

Your grandma is lonely, and the only way she may know how to express it is through complaining. You can't change her. But you can change your reaction to her if you want to. I hope you and your family find peace in this.

[Maxxxie]

I've been on the receiving end of guilt trips from my (now deceased) grandmother, and it's not nice. The best thing I ever did was to realise that she would never change. I cannot control what others do, only what I do. So I decided I would simply let her rant and carry on, nod and smile, and just ignore her bad behaviour.

The rest of the family knew she was behaving badly, and that her behaviour would never change, so rather than create a stressful situation by expecting an 80+ year old woman to change, we chose to ignore her behaviour and focus on our own. This did mean taking time out away from her so we could vent amongst ourselves.

It might sound callous/heartless, but it worked for us.

Max

[Tuckervill]

Ditto to Max. Perfect the smile and nod and changing the subject. Also, making a sincere excuse to leave when it starts to turn ugly is a good practice. I have to use this on my mother. I recently spent a whole day with her in the hospital, and I just went through it making sure I didn't bring up anything controversial. If I did inadvertently press a button, I quickly and sincerely agreed or deflected.

It was EXTREMELY difficult when she mentioned attending the local tea party protest and asking my opinion. yikes.

I would never be able to write a letter to "explain" anything to my mother. Deaf ears. She would jump on any adjective that may indicate judgment of her actions. It's all personal.

You should just call your grandma and check in with her about her trip, following up on when she's coming and tell her how much you're looking forward to seeing her, etc. Just when it starts to turn ugly that's when the toilet starts to overflow or you hear the doorbell or something like that and "oops, gotta go!"

Karen

[Norse]

I'm sorry, but this bothers me. It's okay for your Aunt to be expected to go to the next state to help with your sister and family, but not okay for the family closest (geographically) to your grandma to help out with her?


Tulip, I think you misread or made some incorrect assumptions. My family does do quite a lot for grandma. My post was necessarily shortened - did not want to bore everyone to tears - and did not go into all the details but the family frequently visits, calls, takes her to appointments and takes her on family outings. It was on a recent such outing that she lurched down this road. Grandma gets a lot of help. She wants more and the help she gets usually is not good enough and not what dad would have done.

No one expected that aunt A should help with the kids any more than aunt B or aunt A should have helped when we were kids. Aunt A voluntarily stated and made promises of helping out. The details of the backing out after saying "I will come down" are many but not really the point. I am looking to respond in a non-debate manner.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Pam, it was encouraging to see that your suggestions mirror my draft letter to great extent. This balancing act is tippy-toe difficult. Karen and Max, that's exactly how I usually handle grandma, but this time she is not letting it drop and having her up here without responding beforehand will have her constantly bringing it up. Your comments do have me rethinking the letter though. Sigh....

[Tuckervill]

I think you should write a letter, but make it a love letter. Just pour your heart out to her about how much you love and cherish her, and find every good thing you can say about her, and express your gratitude for her influence on your life.

Do not mention anything at all about any issue, current or past. Just pour out some love on her. Give her a blessing. Affirm her in what is most important to her. Step into her shoes and show her you understand her. I think it will change your life.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Oh another thing!

Who is it in the family who doesn't have any issues with Grandma; who does she love a lot, or just plain leave alone? Learn to treat her like THAT person does. That person has her number. Get it from them. ;)

Karen

[Crankin]

Wow, am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't have to put up with mean treatment by relatives? It doesn't really matter to me whether the person is older, or not. Age does not give one the right to ruin family relationships, or be selfish or demeaning to others. I'm not going to give any advice specific to this situation, but just a general comment. Respect is earned.
I cut off all contact with my aunt (and hence my 3 cousins) because I couldn't take take her mean spirited, controlling efforts to mold me into something I am not. This is my mom's sister. I thought we would have a mother-like relationship when I moved back here, 20 years ago, but I should have known better. She even tried to control my mom's medical treatment and dying process; thank G-d my parents live in San Diego, so she couldn't do too much harm there. She's bigoted and angry, and gets her information from "talk radio." My uncle died, unexpectedly, when she was 52. I was very close to them, but she just turned into a horribly bitter person after his death. She refused to date (had several offers and is attractive), or get any real help in dealing with her feelings. She totally turned to controlling her own kid's lives. One cousin became Orthodox, from being hardly religious (oh, she made fun of her own religion, too), one is a gun toting right wing fanatic, and the other is her 40 year old unmarried daughter, who she has effectively turned into her "friend" and hence, the poor woman has no life.
You get the picture. I just can't keep my mouth quiet when she starts pontificating; we can't talk about anything without her getting pissed. She realized that she can't control me the way she does her own kids and it infuriates her.

[Bike Chick]

Sounds like Grandma is pretty spoiled!!! She can try taking you on a guilt trip but you don't have to go. In other words, she can't make you feel guilty--you are doing that all on your own.

I agree with Crankin' about treatment of family. Just because you are over 80doesn't give you the right to mistreat people--especially people that love you. How would Grandma feel if you were behaving like she was?

[owlice]

Wow, am I the only one who thinks we shouldn't have to put up with mean treatment by relatives?

No, you are not the only one. Relatives may get more leeway than others not related to us for a host of different reasons, but they do not get a free pass.

I think it's selling the cognitively-whole old person short to assume that just because of the person's age, the person can't change. Bullocks. Change might be uncomfortable and unwelcome, but it's certainly possible and people who believe it could never happen will get the status quo. AND -- it's not up to anyone to change Grandma; all you can do is change your response to her.

Don't reward bad behavior; do reward good behavior. The complaining guilt-trippy letter strikes me as bad behavior. I wouldn't answer it at all. She vented, presumably she felt better after venting, and if she asks you about it, simply say, "Yes, it seemed you had a lot to get off your chest; I hope you felt better after writing it." Then move on to something else. If she brings it up again, give the same response, over and over and over if necessary. You don't HAVE to play her game; it's your choice whether you do.

[SheFly]

FWIW - I think your grandma may still be grieving, and she is taking that out on the rest of the family. She lost her son just under a year ago - trust me when I tell you that isn't a very long time. She was used to a routine where he stopped by every day, and now, that routine has changed. None of us like change, but at 87, change is even more difficult to manage.

Crankin' is right that relatives don't have a pass to treat family badly, but I think (based on what little I know from reading here) that there may be some other circumstances at work here.

Norse - sorry about the loss of your dad. It is, however, VERY difficult for parents to outlive their children (I've seen this in my own parents). At least SOME consideration should be given to where she is in the grieving process.

SheFly

[Crankin]

I agree that the grieving process may play a role here. Even a person in his or her 80s can benefit from grief counseling or support groups.

However, in my family's case, 22 years is enough time for my aunt to grieve. People in general felt badly for her for about two years and then when she just kept turning into more of a witch at age 52 or 53, she lost a lot of her friends. Of course, this was a pattern for her whole life. My uncle just kept her in check when he was still alive. In retrospect, I think she has some kind of personality disorder; my grandfather was diagnosed with one very late in his life. Thankfully, my mom was the total opposite of her sister.

[Norse]

Who is it in the family who doesn't have any issues with Grandma; who does she love a lot, or just plain leave alone? Learn to treat her like THAT person does. That person has her number. Get it from them. ;)

That brought a wry smile to my face. I was going to say there is no such person but the one person was my Dad. Speaking of keeping her bad behavior in check, I was just commenting to my mom recently that yet another loss in losing dad was that he acted as our buffer to grandma.

Lots of good thoughts and insights on here. Thank you everyone. I did polish off the letter yesterday and put it in the mail first thing this morning ... so, we shall see. Lucky for me Mother's Day is almost here (I long ago learned I was in trouble if grandma did not get a card :rolleyes:) so I can follow-up on one of Karen's suggestions and put a nothing but pleasant thoughts card into the mail - she should get it right after the letter. :D

Granny isn't all bad. She can be fun, caring and she is the best family story-teller. If she didn't have her good traits, I might not try so hard. :)

[Melalvai]

I'm so glad to see other people use TE for these kinds of problems. Sometimes it is so nice to get in here and vent a little to people who don't have a stake in the situation.

Maybe she has always been like this but is getting worse in her old age, and as you noticed losing your Dad had a big impact on her. I've noticed an irrational insecurity in elderly women. My grandma was convinced that she was going to be out on the street, after Grandpa died. Of course Grandpa had provided for her, and none of her kids or grandkids would ever allow that to happen.

I guess the care taking of elderly relatives can invoke a lot of guilt and resentment, from the care takers, the ones who are too far away, or unable or unwilling to help more, and the elderly relative. The feelings probably aren't fair.

My advice (FWIW) is to think of Grandma as a sick person. It's easy to say "She's always been like that" and blame her for being unreasonable, but even if that's true, she's gotten worse, she hasn't really always been like that. On the other hand take care of yourself, don't visit her as often if it upsets you.

[Tuckervill]

I don't think relatives deserve a free pass. But, a person who is 87 could go at any time (we all could, but it's more likely for the elderly, you know?). Out of a sense of self-preservation, I act in ways I know I won't regret. If my loved one died and I had a guilty conscience because of the way I treated them, it would be so hard to get over that. I don't want to have regrets.

That's not to say I don't set boundaries. I just want to be able to live with myself in the end.

Karen

[Biciclista]

I don't think you need to answer grandma's letter at all. (No one ever answers mine :) and I quit expecting to get responses. Just send your grandmother sweet notes and happy cards and continue to do what you do.
But I want to know what "multiples" consist of..!!

[Norse]

In this case, the multiples are three. My sister has a bumper sticker that says: "Go wild. Raise triplets." - with a jungle motif.



I don't think relatives deserve a free pass. But, a person who is 87 could go at any time (we all could, but it's more likely for the elderly, you know?). Out of a sense of self-preservation, I act in ways I know I won't regret. If my loved one died and I had a guilty conscience because of the way I treated them, it would be so hard to get over that. I don't want to have regrets.

That's not to say I don't set boundaries. I just want to be able to live with myself in the end.

Karen

I know what you're saying. As my draft letter went through it's many changes - the earliest version being the most venting - DP reviewed them and said early on: "How would you feel if grandma died shortly after receiving this?" Dealing with difficult relatives, or even difficult clients, customers... is all a balancing act.

[Norse]

Grandma got the letter followed by the lovely Mother's Day card. She called to thank me for the card, never mentioned the letter. This is her way. We have had several pleasant conversations since pretending that the whole thing never happened. This is Grandma's preferred way of dealing/not dealing with something - just sweep it under the rug and carry on. :rolleyes:

Thanks again TE forum sisters for all the suggestions - the input definitely helped me to navigate some very tricky waters.