Mom in turmoil/Daughter in Trouble

[ACG]

I sit here writing this looking for what I don’t know. So here goes.

I married at 19, divorced 25 years later. My ex was abusive. He would go thru my purse, make me account for all my time, and account for all my money. I worked full time, took care of the home, the kids, the cars, the yard, the plumber, his mom’s birthday presents, home repairs…. He used to tell people he surpervised us. We watched TV what he wanted to watch, ate what he wanted to eat. People like this put on a good show in public. You may never know that this guy who volunteers at the local church is the guy who when he gets home bullies his family.

As I got older, matured, educated. I spoke up more. Opened my own bank account, did what I thought was best because I’m the one who was doing it. Figured things out on my own. Many many times he would harass me, sometimes into the wee hours of the night until I relented.

I tried to leave, and was told by my mom, to stay. Live with it. You can’t live here with me. Won’t help you pay for a divorce.

He threatened to take my children, my home and everything from me if I left. He threatened me in many other ways too. Feeling alone I stayed. Left him once, reconciled, things got really bad then. He started going to my office to make sure my car was there. He got into this site many times and scanned for my entries. He bought software and stalked my e-mails. He blocked the cars in the driveway and took the keys so I couldn't leave the house.

Relationships don’t begin this way, though looking back on it now, the signs were there in the beginning.

So now my eldest daughter, who is 26 is having the same problem. Living with boyfriend. No kids. Not married. Stupidhead (that is what I call him) is doing the same thing as her dad. Not on the same scale, yet. But it is there. His mom/dad have even told her to leave him. I have offered to help her find a place, to let her live with me, to help pay for things. To help her re-start her life.

She hasn’t left. I don’t know where her mind is. She is still in denial and still somehow believes it will somehow get better. Recently my daughters (the other one is 19) went on a weekend trip together. The boyfriend called them non stop, threatened to go where they were. They had to tell the hotel not to put thru any calls. As my eldest was using my cell phone I have all the messages he sent her. He states in one message, he won’t be alive when she comes home. He also harrassed my youngest. My youngest can hold her own and told him off, which ofcourse made him worse. My youngest doesn’t feel threatened by him, but once she was home said, mom I thought we were done with this kind of thing.

So I have to protect my home, my youngest, who still lives with me. I am going to propose to my oldest, in writing, a sort of contract - here is what I will help you with and here is what you need to do to get that help, it includes therapy and dumping Stupidhead. My oldest is full time student and works part time. She did recently apply for a student loan - I am sure she can squeek by with love and support.

Again I’m posting this and don’t know what I’m looking for. It is very hard to see your child go thru the same thing you did.

[Melissa71]

It's so painful and frustrating to see someone you love go through the same problems that you've already gone through. It sounds like you came out on top, and that you're giving her some options. I hope that she takes your advice, and leaves before there are children involved. Just being there for her and supporting her emotionally is good for her, too. Sometimes that's all our kids will let us do. Good luck, you and your family are in my thoughts.

[Biciclista]

Take her to a battered woman's help group. Sometimes hearing it from strangers really helped. My sister moved out from a bad situation less than a week after one of those meetings.

[mariacycle]

I am by no means an expert but after years of watching/listening psychologists on TV/radio, I was constantly hearing these facts:
1) a female that grows up with a negative father figure will often seek a similar male for dating/marriage
2) sometimes only a professional can help
Have you considered asking her to go into therapy?

I'm sorry I couldn't impart any remarkable knowledge on you but please know you are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope things turn around for your daughter. You were very, very brave in your own struggle and I can only pray that your daughter can be half as brave.

[ny biker]

Good for you for getting out of that relationship with your husband. It must have been so hard.

I admit I have not been through what you've been through. But I think the people at the National Domestic Violence Hotline can help you.

http://www.ndvh.org/

1-800-799-SAFE

I hate to say this but your daughter is probably in what she thinks is a normal relationship, in the same dynamic she saw with her father while she was growing up.

Good luck.

[channlluv]

If he has physically threatened her or your youngest, and you have it on voicemail, aren't there legal ramifications? At the very least, a restraining order to protect you and your youngest. He sounds unhinged.

Roxy

[Crankin]

All of the advice you have received is good. Especially the advice to take her to a battered women's shelter, domestic abuse agency, etc.
She needs to restructure her thinking about what a "normal/healthy" relationship is, since as others have said, she did not have the role model for one. Being there for her, for support, both emotionally, financially, and to provide shelter is very important. I can't tell you how many clients I have seen whose lives were shattered by being in a situation like this. The fact that you got out of an abusive relationship on your own, is amazing.
She needs counseling. If she is in school, they should have a counseling center there, that is free for students. Even if it is only short term, they can refer her to other places. And, they might have support groups there.

[shootingstar]

I don't have anything much different to add here at this time, except presumably the nickname of her abusive boyfriend, is not something you use with daughter-his girlfriend.

You are strong ACG, to have left your own past relationship situation.

Wishing you ongoing closeness and good loving discussions amongst you and both daughters.

[crazycanuck]

I just wanted to say what a great mom you are. Thank you for doing what you can for her.

Take care :)

[Grog]

Thank you for being the lucid mother you are. This must be very difficult for you. *gentle hug* I hope things work out for the best.

[PamNY]

You sound like such a good mom, with compassion and insight. Your daughter is lucky to have you.

[polly4711]

Hi, Sorry that this is kind of a long response, but I'm speaking from experience.

1) I think that you are a great mother for doing what you have done. As you know, it takes a lot of self confidence to leave that kind of situation... and it isn't gained by someone telling you to do it.

2) I have been in a relationship like both you and your daughter. Although I am only 23 years old, I've been there. My parents have been married for 35+ years now, but I was repeating the drama that was created from a semi-abusive foster sister.

My best advice is to guide your daughter to make the right decision. I dated this guy for 7 months, and saw therapy for 3 of them while we were dating, and another almost 8 months later so that I could get my self grounded again. (OH! and I went to my university's health center and it was 100% free!) When involved in this kind of relationship, deep down, we all know that there is something wrong, it's just not something that we want to admit to ourselves. The guy I dated, let's call him EC, did the EXACT same things as your ex and your daughters BF. The police said that my saving grace was that he lived a few hours away. From his behavior, they guessed that he would have abused me if we would have spent more than a month together in the same city.

Let you daughter know that you are concerned about the health of their relationship. Ask her to think about a few things... not to respond, but just think:
- Does she think that it is 'normal' for her to go on a family trip and have the person that you love so much threaten to kill them self?
- Does she want to continue to live a life where she cannot go on a family trip without worrying if this person that she 'loves' will be alive when she returns?

Let your daughter know that you will be here for her and love her no matter what.

^^Just as a FYI, although some college campuses are ungated and 'open' they are usually considered private property. During this time of trying to break up, EC threatened to come over so that he could 'show me how much he loved me, because once I saw him, then I would know.' I broke down and called the police that night. If he steps on my University's campus, he goes to jail. It's not a restraining order, the campus police are just allowed to determine who's allowed on campus or who isn't.
^^I would also let your local police station know what's going on. Else, I would at least begin to keep records. If you call someone more than 16 times within a certain time period, it's considered harassment (you will need to check on the details).

Protect yourself and your younger daughter. In the end, it's your older's daughters decision.

Please PM me if you want to talk more about this, share experiences, or just need someone. :o

[OakLeaf]

(((((ACG and family)))))

I think Polly has really excellent advice.

I would add what I think you already know, that it may take your daughter several attempts to leave her boyfriend for good, so try not to get frustrated with her if she leaves and then goes back.

I think it's a good idea to let her know where you're coming from, but I don't think it's a good idea to put rigid conditions on your offers of help. Odds are that if she slips, she will feel too ashamed (or too financially strapped) to let you know. I know it's not what you meant, but it may feel to her like your love and support are conditional (which is what relationships tend to feel like to abuse victims, anyhow).

Take good care. Be proud of getting yourself out of that situation, and of being such a good mother.

[lph]

Just wanted to echo - you really are a fantastic mom for having the insight and experience to deal with this. You probably would rather not have that experience, but most mothers wouldn't be able to do what you can here.

[uforgot]

Notice the contrast between:
I tried to leave, and was told by my mom, to stay. Live with it. You can’t live here with me. Won’t help you pay for a divorce.

and

I have offered to help her find a place, to let her live with me, to help pay for things. To help her re-start her life.



You are already trying to break the cycle. The choices we make in relationships are not by chance. There are reasons for it. Unless the reasons and internalized feelings are addressed, chances are that both of you will continue to make these choices. Read about it, seek counseling, whatever it takes, and continue to talk about it. This message board is probably a good place as you will find a lot of people who have been right there with you. I find that even close friends don't always understand the dynamics of a family. This goes way back before either of you started these relationships. Your family growing up. Take a good look at it, were you allowed a voice? your own choices and feelings?

Anyway, your daughter has to make her own choices and you can continue to support and love her and help her when she is ready. I think you also need to take care of yourself. You may think you are out of the fire, but chances are you need to find out why you married him in the first place, and you probably need some help doing that.

Take care.

[bmccasland]

Gee this sounds familiar...

Been there, done that, but don't have a souvenir T-shirt to show for it. And I broke the cycle by not having children. Drastic measures, I know.

What I can add is only that unfortunately your older daughter grew up with the preception that that sort of treatment is to a certain extent "normal." I'm not saying she's a lost cause, but it's hard to break the cycle. Continue to a positive support to her, but make certain that you take care of you. Try not to cut the boyfriend down too much, that may chase her away, but to point out the positive things in her life. Lift her up, but don't put him down.

[zoom-zoom]

Notice the contrast between:
I tried to leave, and was told by my mom, to stay. Live with it. You can’t live here with me. Won’t help you pay for a divorce.

and

I have offered to help her find a place, to let her live with me, to help pay for things. To help her re-start her life.



This stuck out for me, too. Your DD is so lucky to have a mom who wants her to be safe and in a healthy relationship. Your support gives her incentive to be in a better place--you didn't have that. I hope she takes advantage of the gift you are giving her.

[ACG]

In response to you all. THANK YOU. It felt really good to talk to someone about this. Painful very. Frustrating yes.

Yes I've been to therapy, still go.

Yes I have suggested therapy, many, many times. I'm going to try my best to get her to go. She doesn't have a lot of faith in therapists probably dates back to experiences years ago when she saw her dad/me in therapy and how it didn't work. He fired almost all of our therapists.

We have grounds for restraining orders and civil harassment orders. However, she has to be willing to file it. The 19 year old doesn't want to file one because she feels that the boyfriend will take it out on her older sister. I have spoken to my lawyer and will keep necssary records, I know what to look for, I can have one filed in 24 hours if needed. But again both daughters are adults, they have to file the order, not me. I did get my oldest to agree to put her cell phone on my plan. Now I will have records of the multiple texts and phone calls, should it be needed for later.

He knows he isn't welcome at my home.

My daughter is 26, an adult. She can't be forced into anything. She has admitted to the youngest that she can't believe she is with someone who is just like her dad. She admitted to me in an e-mail that she needs to leave him.

I can predict the boyfriends actions, what he'll do/say in response to any/most know what to look for. He knows this, he is afraid of me. He won't even look me in the eye. I do not put the boyfriend down to my daughter. I do not try to tell her what she is doing wrong.

I am in a very loving relationship with a man, a widower who has a 7 year old. We are raising her together. I now have another child to think of. My Honey sat my 26 year old down and had a talk with her. He is really concerned for her and said a lot of the things I've said, but coming from him it probably sounded different. He told me/her. The day I moved in here, you, your mom, your sister, became my family. He offered to help her move out, go to her place and take all of her personal items for her. He told her - We are going to help you, take care of you, but you have to look at yourself and figure out what is best for you. This made me cry. Again she wants to have a plan before she moves out. So frustrating.

I am tense every morning until I get a text from her saying, she is okay. Today we are meeting to pick out new glasses for her.

She knows I am going to have a talk with her, we are planning on Sunday night.

I am a very direct person. People know exactly how I feel about things, if they ask me. I don't lie and I don't play their games. I avoid toxic people.

This is a much taboo subject to many people. It happens it is out there.

I have a trip planned to Europe, with my girls in the summer for two weeks. I think this will be a great way for us to spend some time together and be away from everything.

Thank you again for your thoughts and prayers I am very overwhelmed by it. Audrey

[lph]

Audrey, I wish you were my mother.

[BikingNurse]

So sorry to hear about this. The only thing I can say is love her . When she is ready for the help. do NOT hold it over her. as in "I helped you". This will push her away, you may lose her.

[badger]

oh Audrey, if only all mothers had the same insight and understanding as you!

I hope that your daughter will admit soon that she needs help in getting out of the relationship. As beneficial as groups and therapies are, it's no good if she herself doesn't admit she needs help. She certainly has a lot of loving people to support her, I hope she realizes one day just how lucky she is to have that and she deserves so much more than to be with someone who doesn't support her.

But having you as a mother I have no doubt she will pull through!

[tctrek]

(((Audrey))) Your story is heart-breaking, but you are a good Mom and she will come around. The best thing you are doing is not judging her. You have extended open arms. I think that is lovely.

[Selkie]

Audrey, I wish you were my mother.

Me, too. You sound like an incredible person---very strong and brave. Sending you lots of good karma....

[Desert Tortoise]

Wow! You are an incredible woman and mom. You have fought a tough fight and came out triumphant. Your daughters see and will continue to see your fine example.

Your oldest is struggling now but with your open arms and family support she will find her way. It might not happen quickly or even the first time around but it sounds like she is becoming receptive. The fact the she remains close to you and her sister is very encouraging.

From what you describe, your current relationship is so much better. This could be an example of how a man/husband treats a woman. Does she spend time with you and your SO? Does she see how he treats you? Shouldn't be in her face but subtle. Maybe casual remarks about something small but loving he did for you.

With your love and support your daughter will find her path and be a better and stronger woman for it. I have faith she will. Afterall, look at her mom.