Body fat questions...

[runnergirl]

So I got measured at 21% with calipers, which seems about right. I did the math, and to get to 17 or 18% I need to lose about 7 lbs of fat.

For those who have low bf, is it genetic? Do you have to work to maintain that #?

All other things being equal, is the effort to get down to a "competative" bf worth it for racing, will 7 lbs alter my ability to climb? (Bikemomma, pink kona?)

[Nanci]

http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=12207

Runnergirl,

Look at this article, it explains exactly how losing fat will help you climb.

Nanci

[runnergirl]

As with most cycling things, the article is fairly male specific (if I were a guy, my height weight ratio would place me as a top notch climber-clearly the formula doesn't translate).

The mt. Bike chick website had an interesting article about anaorexia in female pros that discussed climbing vs. sprinting in women's races that was somewhat helpful, but still fairly detached from the level I am at now. I was hoping some ladies who have raced/are racing might have personal insight to share.

[Dogmama]

You don't say how old you are, but 21% BF is pretty darn good!

You need to make sure you don't lose muscle with the fat. Muscle burns lots more calories than fat. Nutrition is the key. If you're determined, you might want to start at fitday.com. You can log your daily food in & get an idea of your calories, fat & carb %, etc.

[Musclicious505]

hi runnergirl - I dont know that my response will be a lot of help from a racing standpoint but I am a former bodybuilder and i generally keep my bodyfat pretty low year round. Im usually about 12 in my "off season" and 9 ish right now. For me the secret is moderation in eating year round and not letting it drift much higher. I do eat whatever I want once or twice a week and the rest of the week its fairly high protein, lo fat and moderate carbs. The challenge for me with cycling is making sure I get enough carbs to get me through the rides. I find that cycling definately has helped me keep the bodyfat low and I am able to eat more calories now that I am riding about 5 times a week (plus indoor cardio like the elliptical trainer). I know it sounds like a lot of sacrifice but keeping my weight and bodyfat down helps tremendously with pretty much any endurance type sport. I have a pic on yahoo member profiles under the name musclicious505 if you wanna see how about 7 ish percent looks on me. Im not a bodybuilder anymore but still compete now and then in figure contests and hope to try racing next summer.

[Pedal Wench]

Someone buy that girl an Oreo...



hi runnergirl - I dont know that my response will be a lot of help from a racing standpoint but I am a former bodybuilder and i generally keep my bodyfat pretty low year round. Im usually about 12 in my "off season" and 9 ish right now. For me the secret is moderation in eating year round and not letting it drift much higher. I do eat whatever I want once or twice a week and the rest of the week its fairly high protein, lo fat and moderate carbs. The challenge for me with cycling is making sure I get enough carbs to get me through the rides. I find that cycling definately has helped me keep the bodyfat low and I am able to eat more calories now that I am riding about 5 times a week (plus indoor cardio like the elliptical trainer). I know it sounds like a lot of sacrifice but keeping my weight and bodyfat down helps tremendously with pretty much any endurance type sport. I have a pic on yahoo member profiles under the name musclicious505 if you wanna see how about 7 ish percent looks on me. Im not a bodybuilder anymore but still compete now and then in figure contests and hope to try racing next summer.

[Musclicious505]

Thank you :) actually I find if I do have something I like each day the eating clean for the rest of the day is no problem. About 9:00 am every day its been strawberry pop tarts lately :D Its when you deprive yourself all the time that its bad...

[Dogmama]

How do you measure your body fat? Scale? Calipers? I'd like to know what mine is, but hear there is lots of variations between the different modalities.

[runnergirl]

I do use fitday-have for about a year now, and it is a great tool. I have a personal trainer who sets me up with weight training every few weeks, and he measured me with calipers. I plan on dropping 7 lbs, and having him check it again-that way it's consistent even if there's some error. The difficulty is that to lose I have to be around 1700 cals a day, while I burn 3000-4000. I ride 200 miles a week (1 long ride, 1 sprint work out, 1 interval workout, 1 race or race like group ride, 2 recovery rides, and 1 moderatly paced group ride). (BTW, this is all under the supervision of a coach) It's really tough getting all my nutrients in with so few calories to work with, not to mention timing eating around daily training.

My sports medicine doc (also a cyclist-races on the same team) has strictly forbidden me to drop below 16 or 17% bf. According to him anything below 15% is risky and not helpful for an endurence athlete.

Leah Goldstien is the best female climber in North America according to some, and she looks a lot like me size wise (google her for a pic). If she can outclimb male cat 1/2 racers at that size, it makes me wonder if the size obsession in racing that is common among male racers translates the same for women. I'm begining to think perhaps it's not, superlight women are not the first over the top, at least not from what I've seen.

I'm going to try to get down around 17-18% (which is what the dr. said was an ok goal) by December or January, but as I'm continuing to train I won't know if weight is a factor in improvement at all, or if I would've seen the same results 5lbs heavier.

[DirtDiva]

My old gym had these kewl scales in the trainers' office that figured it out for you. I always wanted to know how they worked but kept forgetting to ask.

[Pedal Wench]

Can you stretch out the goal for a slightly later date? That way, you could probably add back in a few more calories to maintain your muscles. As you know, one way to alter your body fat is to either lose fat, or gain muscle.

Musclicious, just kidding about the oreos. I used to room with a fitness comopetitor, and her diet amazed me. Unfortunately, she hardly ever splurged, which made me feel terrible when I was eating ice cream!





I do use fitday-have for about a year now, and it is a great tool. I have a personal trainer who sets me up with weight training every few weeks, and he measured me with calipers. I plan on dropping 7 lbs, and having him check it again-that way it's consistent even if there's some error. The difficulty is that to lose I have to be around 1700 cals a day, while I burn 3000-4000. I ride 200 miles a week (1 long ride, 1 sprint work out, 1 interval workout, 1 race or race like group ride, 2 recovery rides, and 1 moderatly paced group ride). (BTW, this is all under the supervision of a coach) It's really tough getting all my nutrients in with so few calories to work with, not to mention timing eating around daily training.

My sports medicine doc (also a cyclist-races on the same team) has strictly forbidden me to drop below 16 or 17% bf. According to him anything below 15% is risky and not helpful for an endurence athlete.

Leah Goldstien is the best female climber in North America according to some, and she looks a lot like me size wise (google her for a pic). If she can outclimb male cat 1/2 racers at that size, it makes me wonder if the size obsession in racing that is common among male racers translates the same for women. I'm begining to think perhaps it's not, superlight women are not the first over the top, at least not from what I've seen.

I'm going to try to get down around 17-18% (which is what the dr. said was an ok goal) by December or January, but as I'm continuing to train I won't know if weight is a factor in improvement at all, or if I would've seen the same results 5lbs heavier.

[Bustertb]

I had to go lift some weights after looking at your pic :o You look great!

[Musclicious505]

thank you for the comment - thats very kind - not all us bodybuilders look like scary amazons!!

I have a personal trainer who does mine with calipers - the same person, the same calipers, the same sites at about the same time of day so it is as consistant as possible.

As far as the recommendation from the doc regarding bodyfat - I know everyone is different and certainly they are the experts - but I have had no health problems related to low body fat and I find I am very rarely sick at all. I have read a lot about the benefits of a low calorie diet and longevity so there is that train of thought also. I have had my bone density done also because I know thats a concern and it seems to be fine. I find that I feel so much better physically and mentally this way - but again everyone is different.

[Dogmama]

hi runnergirl - I have a pic on yahoo member profiles under the name musclicious505 if you wanna see how about 7 ish percent looks on me. Im not a bodybuilder anymore but still compete now and then in figure contests and hope to try racing next summer.

Wow! You look fabulous! How often do you lift when you're riding 5X week?? Do you do splits or full body? I want your legs! :D

[Musclicious505]

thank you - I guess that I feel just because some of us are in our forties we dont have to look it - or have trainers, or chefs or a ton of plastic surgery like the celebs to achieve it!

I do splits - legs one day, back and biceps another, chest and tris another and then I train my shoulders seperately another day because they have always lagged. So I lift four times in seven days. I go to work pretty early in the am so I am done by 330 and then I go the gym, come home for a break and then get on the bike for about an hour and a half. The trick for me is to train my legs on a day when Im not riding cause it really takes it out of me. I was worried that I would lose leg size from the biking but I think that they are staying lean and have actually grown a tiny bit.

[pkq]

Keep up the good work.

[Bustertb]

Eating less calories slows down the metabolism. The thinking is, slower metabolism = longer life. I have always been suspicious of diet supplements that 'speed up' the metabolism cause it is speeding up the heart rate. Exercise is one thing, but to speed up the heart rate with drugs...I dunno. Never sounded like a good idea to me.

Of course tomorrow is never promised. We can work out and look great and then one day our 'number' could be up, or be dx'd with an incurable disease. So I try to keep my health along with other things in my life, i.e. relationship, etc. in perspective.

[Dogmama]

Eating less calories slows down the metabolism. The thinking is, slower metabolism = longer life. I have always been suspicious of diet supplements that 'speed up' the metabolism cause it is speeding up the heart rate. Exercise is one thing, but to speed up the heart rate with drugs...I dunno. Never sounded like a good idea to me.


I think that diet & exercise account for 95% of good health, good bodyweight, etc. I need to concentrate on that 95% first before I decide I need to ingest some potentially dangerous supplements.

[Helen]

Did you notice that if you don't have regular exercise, you become more tired than usual ? Or is it just me ?

[DirtDiva]

Totally, but if I don't get regular exercise I don't sleep well, so I always figured that was the link.

[Helen]

Totally, but if I don't get regular exercise I don't sleep well, so I always figured that was the link.

You are so right. Sleeping can be a very good indicator of our health and also for our stress levels.

[mtbdarby]

musclicious505, I can't find your picture. Can you post a link? Thanks.

I second the question about the scales that gauge body fat. Any comments on how accurate these are?

[natheless]

re: body fat scales - most are not that accurate. Their value lies in their being consistently inaccurate. So, they are good as a tracking tool, but you shouldn't necessarily take them too seriously.

The problem with the bathroom scale version is that is measures via impedence, so a current travels up one leg, across the pelvis and down the other leg. Leaving out half your body.

If you get your body fat measured by a trained professional with calipers, and find out that it is 5% or 7% different than your scale reading (yes, they are usually that far off!), you can use that figure to adjust all your readings. It's also my understanding that the ones to buy are the kind that also measure your hydration, because how hydrated you are makes a big difference in your reading.

I have a bf scale, but I really only use it to give myself a boost (I enjoy watching the % drop)... for someone who really cares about bf and needs to know exactly - you should have it done by a professional, as well, and then you can use a home scale to keep track.

[CatBerge]

Runnergirl...I've been off the radar for a while... But I think that there are exceptions to the rule about being light and a climber. I am pretty heavy for being 5ft5 inc. I weigh between 126-132 depending on the year. I am one of the fastest women climbers in ultradistance events. I have the Course record for the Everest Challenge, 29,000 ft of climbing in 220 miles and usually ride with the fastest men in ultra-events with a lot of climbing.
I would guess my body fat is around 14%. I don't really keep track of any of that.... but those are the estimates a personal trainer gave to me, and was measured by my sports doctor at one time.
According to charts in some bicycling magazines... they say that I should be a sprinter.... well those charts obviously are just generalizations and do not apply to us all.
Cheers,
Cat.

[KSH]

re: body fat scales - most are not that accurate. Their value lies in their being consistently inaccurate. So, they are good as a tracking tool, but you shouldn't necessarily take them too seriously.

That's the truth. I spent extra money buying one that measured body fat... and it said I was at 23%, which might be correct? Not sure. At my leanest, I was at 18%... and I have gained some fat... so I am sure it has gone up.

Then, I stepped on the scale another day... I had gained 1 pound... and it said I was at 25% body fat. Yea. Right.

I returned that scale and spent less money on one that just tells me how much I weigh.

[madisongrrl]

Are these body fat scales usually higher or lower than your actual body fat reading? I've heard mixed information...

[natheless]

KSH - You get the best result with the BF scales by averaging readings taken over several days - you can fluctuate quite a bit based on time of day, hydration level, etc. I like my BF scale, despite its flaws, because I have been trying to get away from putting too much stock in just the number on the scale, which tells you so little about your body composition.

It depends on your needs - sometimes, it seems far easier to just go by the way your pants fit! ;)


Madisongrrl - From what I saw when I was researching them, they usually overestimate BF, at least for women (this is because they really only test the lower half of the body, and that's where most women tend to store the most fat.) So, your BF would generally be 5-7% lower than your scale reading.

[btchance]

I have a question in the opposite direction, how do you know you are too low on body fat, and what is an approximate number?

I ask this because 6mo ago I was measured by the nutrition doctors at the university at 17%, while their recommended bottom number was 21, although they didn't think 17 would be a problem. I have since started exercising a lot more, and have dropped down a couple of sizes without losing any weight or eating differently. Now I have started to have irregular periods, which the doctors attribute to stress, but I don't know about that as I have been similar stress levels for years, and this actually started during a break from most of the stress. This is worrisome to me because I already have pretty small bones. When I broke my arm in multiple places when I was 20, they actually did a bone density scan because the density looked pretty light on x-ray, and when they operated, the surgeon said my bones were the size of an 11yo, so this is definately something I'm worried about.

[Grog]

I heard about 12% being a serious health treshold, but I haven't researched this. I'm kind of worried too. Let me know what information you find... and what we should do about it.

[traveller_62]

man i wish i could get to 18% body fat. i've been working at my diet for over a year and i've lost weight and toned up considerably-- but my body just hangs on to fat. i can't seem to get even to 25%.

there is a lot of research out there about people having different "set points" for weight and body fat composition. i would assume that some of this is genetic but hard to say how much.


traveller

[Adventure Girl]

The only method to get an absolutely accurate measurement of body fat percentage is...
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an autopsy. :eek:

[CorsairMac]

ooooo - do I need to schedule that with my doctor? :rolleyes:

(ok - I'm sick and my world is happy)

[Helen]

ooooo - do I need to schedule that with my doctor? :rolleyes:

(ok - I'm sick and my world is happy)

You better nooooot :D
Anyway ... what do you think of those body fat measuring scales ?

[btchance]

I heard about 12% being a serious health treshold, but I haven't researched this. I'm kind of worried too. Let me know what information you find... and what we should do about it.


Okay, as far as what I have found out is that it varies for everyone. Women have 10-12% essential body fat (breasts, hips, reproductive) and you should definately not go below that. Women who aren't athletes are recommended to be in the 21-33% range. Trained athletes often fall in between the two.

When problems arise as far as losing bone mass, period irregularities, etc, is different for each person (different set points). Losing body fat at a fast rate usually causes problems at a higher body fat percentage, but if you lose at a slower weight you can usually go down to a lower set point. Basically, puting your body under too much stress (emotional of physical) can create problems. There's no clear cut answer.

Some doctors recommend putting women who start having menstrual irregularities on the pill as it has been suggested to counteract some of the problems. However, you don't know if they get really low and would stop having them all toghether, so this is a little contorversial. They also recommend exercising less, eating healthy (ie not restricting your diet at all) for 6 months to correct the problem.

If anybody has any other info, let me know as there are still alot of holes in this.

[btchance]

Really ? Why is that ? Women who aren't athletes can still have a lower body fat percentage just by following a good diet program.

I'm not really sure, that's just what I found from numerous sources, and it seems to be the universal values. I don't think that it's a problem to be a little lower than that, it's just not required to be healthy, especially if you're trying to get pregnant. Not completely sure though.

[Grog]

I'm not really sure, that's just what I found from numerous sources, and it seems to be the universal values. I don't think that it's a problem to be a little lower than that, it's just not required to be healthy, especially if you're trying to get pregnant. Not completely sure though.

Right. I am not sure in making that link, but I think that fat is closely related to hormones production (oestrogens in particular) (which explains the current surge of breast cancer... in men!! very fat ones, that is), hence the potential problems for a women trying to become pregnant if her body fat gets lower than a certain level.

[runnergirl]

Low bodyfat through diet alone doesn't really work all that well. Without excercise, women don't really have much muscle, so someone with little muscle and low bodyfat looks like a runway model. All angle, no curve, no nice "cut" looking arms.

Most slender women (thin, but not runway model thin) actually have high bodyfat percentages. I wear an 8/10 and have 20% bf, my best friend (totally sedentary) wears a 2/4 and has 30% bodyfat, but she looks thinner.

[Yasmin]

Hi runnergirl, Yasmin here. I think the genetic component is the over-riding factor. Don't hate me, but I'm at the other end of the body fat spectrum (lucky to score 9%). I'm minute, but not as small as my mum was.This has it's own disadvantages as I lose power exponentially below a certain weight, especially on the long, flat stretches. Our bodies are engineered differently & that's why different people are better at some sports rather than others (I'd be embarrassing at female rugby or high jumping (short in stature)). You're out there running & cycling. No doubt you watch your nutrition. Will you be better at hill climbs minus the 7 lbs? YES. I cycle with a professional cyclist & he maintains that every ounce counts on the hills.
I wish you all the best & support your efforts. Good on ya.
So I got measured at 21% with calipers, which seems about right. I did the math, and to get to 17 or 18% I need to lose about 7 lbs of fat.

For those who have low bf, is it genetic? Do you have to work to maintain that #?

All other things being equal, is the effort to get down to a "competative" bf worth it for racing, will 7 lbs alter my ability to climb? (Bikemomma, pink kona?)

[Yasmin]

I have a question in the opposite direction, how do you know you are too low on body fat, and what is an approximate number?

I ask this because 6mo ago I was measured by the nutrition doctors at the university at 17%, while their recommended bottom number was 21, although they didn't think 17 would be a problem. I have since started exercising a lot more, and have dropped down a couple of sizes without losing any weight or eating differently. Now I have started to have irregular periods, which the doctors attribute to stress, but I don't know about that as I have been similar stress levels for years, and this actually started during a break from most of the stress. This is worrisome to me because I already have pretty small bones. When I broke my arm in multiple places when I was 20, they actually did a bone density scan because the density looked pretty light on x-ray, and when they operated, the surgeon said my bones were the size of an 11yo, so this is definately something I'm worried about.
When you start missing periods & are nowhere near menopause you can assume your body fat is getting too low. I know because I struggle with this problem myself. Eat, my dear, eat. Your body is putting on muscle & replacing the fat. Even though the scales read the same it sounds like this is what's going on. Muscle will have you burn up more energy...good if you want to lose weight, bad if you're trying to maintain. Don't be afraid of the food, your body is telling you it needs it.An example for you: last week I cycled 525km because I'm in training for a major 200km hill ride event in Jan 06. I wear a heart-rate monitor which tells me how much energy I burn up. For me to maintain at 50kg (112lbs) I require about 4,000kcals/day. This is double the average. If I fall below 50kg I lose energy & my periods mess up.
If you're at risk of osteoporosis (thin bones) the last thing you want your body thinking is that you're starving it because it will take calcium & minerals from your bones. Vicious circle.
Good luck!
Yasmin.

[Helen]

A few years ago .. I tried to lose some weight by not eating enough and starving myself every day.
I am sure you didn't quite starve yourself every day. :)
But if you really did that, then its quite amazing you only escaped with a low level of calcium and not other dangerous results.

[btchance]

A few years ago .. I tried to lose some weight by not eating enough and starving myself every day. The result was in a rapid drop of calcium which I am still trying to get it up to the normal levels. Eat as much as you need or you'll end up in a vicious circle (as Yasmin said) that will take you nowhere.

That's what's confusing to me right now. Whenever I'm hungry, I eat, so I'm not depriving myself, and I'm taking calcium and iron supplements (low iron levels can also cause irregular periods.) I think I need to write down what I eat everyday for a week to get an idea of how much I'm actually eating and go from there.