Bike Fit Etiquette

[owlgirl]

Got a bike fit last week, and I've been on 3 rides with it. I have knee issues and got a fit because i thought it would help my knee. However, the fit has made it waaaay worse and now I can't even run. So I guess I need to go back to the fitter. I know it's probably different for every fit person, but am I going to have to shell out more $$? I didn't ask about this before and now i'm regretting it. also, I am scared that if he didn't get the fit right the first time, why not find a new fitter? Am I being a baby? When y'all got fit, did you have to go a lot? I've only been fit once before, and it worked the first time, but that fitter moved :( so i went to this guy off the recommendations of some of my teammates. I am feeling very sad and bummed about not being able to ride, so i need to call him soon i guess, but i don't even know what to say. :(

Please forgive me if this subject has already been discussed, and point me towards those threads.

[kermit]

When you say the first fit worked, what was done? I would call the shop you had the fit with and explain the knee pain and situation. It could be as simple as a saddle height or cleat adjustment. I have a great LBS and after buying a bike and recent upgrades have had some tweaking for a new saddle. Ask them point blank if you can come in and if they can take a look will you be charged. Most LBS will help without charging you. No LBS wants a rider in pain!

[lunacycles]

Fitting is very subjective and also philosophical. Kind of like a therapist or massage therapist: you may have to find one you trust and that may take some time.

And, if you are making changes after having spent a lot of time in a certain position, you should make very small, incremental changes to "test" things out. Very small, like 5mm if it is a saddle fore/aft or height change, no more than 1cm with the stem, etc. Your new position may be a good one, but may be asking too much of your body if it is very accustomed to a different one.

If you paid good bucks and think your fitter knows what s/he is doing, you may want to continue with the same fitter and see if they can modify their suggestion to help you, or see it a different way. Like I said, fit can be subjective and it can also be a process. There are many schools and techniques that often create different end result, and sometimes one session isn't adequate to fix the issue.

[MartianDestiny]

I would start by speaking with the fitter.

As Luna mentioned fitting is at least to some extent subjective; it is also an artform not some pure science that works for everyone the first time.

I imagine your fitter will have suggestions/modifications based on the increased knee pain, and I suspect those suggestions should come free of charge (he's already gone through all the efforts to get your flexibility, issues, on bike measurements, etc and ultimately it's in his best interest for you to be happy).

It may take a few iterations to get everything *just so*.

I just had my first full on professional fit for general measurements (stop motion camera, size cycle, range of motion tests, medical issues, flexibility, fitness, cycling goals, the whole 9 yards (it took more than 2 hrs)). The bike that comes out of that won't be here for a few months, but I have every confidence the bike will fit wonderfully. The same fitter has done "to the bike" fits for me for both my road and mountain bikes (that I bought from him). We've made tweaks since those initial fits (cleat position, spacers added/removed, minor saddle fore/aft) even though I've had no major complaints. The tweaks were mostly initiated by him rather than me actually. He's always asking me how the bikes are feeling, if anything is hurting, if I feel like something needs changed, etc. I guess that's the benefit of having a really great bike shop and riding with their club as my fitter sees me ride often. He's never taken a "well, this came up and this hurts now" comment personally, just tweaks it and has me report back in a week or so.

So anyway, I think my point is two fold. 1) Don't be worried about offending him (because while I'm sure he's not expecting/wanting you to come back miserable, he should understand that it happens sometimes and be more than happy to adjust things for you based on the new issues or work you towards the fit in smaller increments if it's a matter of doing too much too quickly). 2) Don't be discouraged quite yet (it may take a few tries to get it perfect, and even then fit is dynamic as your body/fitness changes)

Or, in sort, Luna pretty much nailed it.

[Jiffer]

I wouldn't feel bad or awkward at all about talking to the guy who fit you. The whole entire point of his job is to keep you from having pain, assuming it's the fit that's causing the pain. Maybe the way he fit you works for some people, but not for you. I would be surprised if he charged you more money.

I would give him another shot, assuming he doesn't charge you anything to adjust the bike. If that doesn't work, try another fitter.

Where is your knee pain? When I was trying a new saddle a while back, my husband put it on for me. A couple of rides later I realized I was having pain behind my knee. I finally figured out it must be from the saddle height. My previous saddle had been set by a professional fitter. Anyway, dh raised the saddle, thinking that was the issue. The pain didn't go away, so I took it to my fitter. He said the saddle was way too high. He said that "typically" pain below the knee means the saddle is too high. Pain above the knee means it's too low. I didn't have knee pain after he adjusted it.

The right fit can mean everything and, like I said, I'd be surprised if he charged you more to adjust it and if he wasn't even upset at all that you asked him about it. I would think he would want to know if you are having any problems. I know my guy would. My guy did make it clear to let him know if I needed any adjustments. He also made a point that a previous poster said, about changing things in small increments. What works for you now, might need even more adjusting in the future.

[owlgirl]

Hi everyone, thanks for the excellent advice. I called my fit guy, and he said no problem, we'd try again. He even asked me to come in tonight, which was very nice, but i already have plans. He also said he'd check it out for no extra charge. So I will probably go in tomorrow.

also, I should have clarified that the other fit i got was for another bike entirely. It just worked the first time so I never had to go back.

My knee pain is usually patellar tendonitis, above the knee pain, but this fit kind of made my whole knee hurt. i've got pain where the IT band attaches near the knee, the typical patellar tendonitis pain, pain behind my knee and pain on the inside of my knee. I took a sharpie and circled all the areas after my ride, hopefully they'll survive till my fit! Since there are so many areas that hurt, I don't know if we'll be able to pinpoint a certain thing (like seat was too high, cleats off, etc) but I'm still hopeful that we'll make progress.

[marni]

when I got my bike fitted, it was made clear that the fit was guaranteed for 6 months and that I could come back in as often as I needed to tweak it until it was perfect.

As it turns out he got it right the first time, but offered me a free fit when I got back on the bike after recovering from an accident and my position had changed somewhat.

I guess it all depends on the bike shop and fitter.
personally I bribe my bike guys with homemade goodies a couple of times a year.

marni

[owlgirl]

personally I bribe my bike guys with homemade goodies a couple of times a year.

an excellent idea!

[MartianDestiny]

an excellent idea!

Yes, indeed. I am guilty of being nice, errr bribing. In fact it's about time they get another batch of brownies from me. They are looking far too fit already :p

[kermit]

I pizza and a six pack, that goes a long way!

[Karmabike]

You should not be feeling pain after your fit. It may take time to become accustomed to your new position but it should feel generally pretty good.
Certainly no pain.

As the others mentioned you should go back to the fitter and have him work with you. If he is a professional he will give at least some follow up especially if you are having problems.

Oh and defiantly bribe your fitter. Primo beer, homemade brownies, cakes..

Victor
Bicyclelab.com

[Kathi]

I took my shop ice cream. It's french pot, made in Cincinnati and sold in Denver. I felt like a cheapskate though, it's only sold in quarts and I think they deserve gallons!

[MartianDestiny]

I took my shop ice cream. It's french pot, made in Cincinnati and sold in Denver. I felt like a cheapskate though, it's only sold in quarts and I think they deserve gallons!

You brought them ice cream?!?!? Well crap, I've been out-done. Gotta raise the stakes a bit then....hummm...what is better than ice cream....

[Kathi]

You brought them ice cream?!?!? Well crap, I've been out-done. Gotta raise the stakes a bit then....hummm...what is better than ice cream....

All the way from Lakewood in a cooler. I was wrong, it's sold in pints not quarts. It was Graeter's ice cream available at King Sooper (Kroger) but don't know if it's carried in the Boulder store. :D Sometimes you get huge chips of chocolate. I took them mocha chocolate chip.

Like I said, they're worth gallons!

[MartianDestiny]

All the way from Lakewood in a cooler. I was wrong, it's sold in pints not quarts. It was Graeter's ice cream available at King Sooper (Kroger) but don't know if it's carried in the Boulder store. :D Sometimes you get huge chips of chocolate. I took them mocha chocolate chip.

Like I said, they're worth gallons!

Swimming pools is more like it. Well now I definitely have to bake. I've been feeling guilty about not feeding them recently and now you've made me feel really guilty ;)

[Kathi]

:):d

[owlgirl]

I took them some Stella, and got some big smiles. They do their fits after closing and they were already drinking when I got there! :D

Anyhow, for anyone who wants to geek out on fitting stuff, my fitter said I was the first person who'd ever come back (?!?!?). I thought that was really crazy-but people around here call him the bike whisperer, and I know he's fixed some big problems for people. My problem was a little more subtle starting out, and I don't think there were any big glaring fit errors for him to fix the first time. The first time he didn't do any measuring but this time he did, and my R femur is longer (this is the leg that my knee always gets messed up on) so we moved my cleat back some so that leg isn't getting forced into an awkward position. I still feel like my seat is quite high but it was probably way too low before so it'll take some getting used to. Also my knee is angry so I'm not going to ride until it feels a little better :( but I don't want to make it worse. I have specialized BG shoes, with two shims in them and my knees still collapse so we added a third (4.5˚ correction total!!! geez) so we'll see how it all works out. I am supposed to call him if it's not working. He said the next step is to run my looks with red cleats instead of gray, and after that speedplays.

thanks again everyone! If I have to go again i'll be taking some baked goods. OH! and if you live near a Ben and Jerry's, today is free ice cream day!!!!

[Miranda]

The goodies are nice light humor to read here, but uh your hard earned $$$ you paid for a service is more than enough for a professional.

Sorry, tainted seething b*tch about lbs near me, been scr*wed over a lot. And AFTER I took goodies and kissed azz... for what? My money paid for a service and biz keeps your doors open... so you should be kissing my azz in America the country of capitalism. *sigh* much mo better now... rant over.

After 5 hours round trip, I have my guy now that sold me my current bike. Worth it.

OK... here's my puzzle... uh, how did your leg become uneven from one bike to the next bike? Too many one legged drills on that side, or what? Part joke, part... is that the only reason why things are off... do they really know?

Do you remotely know where your old fit guy went to? Can you call him at the other shop for advice?

Hopefully the guy you paid will work out your fit. I need a handelbar tweek now w/swap out crash parts, and once you go from "my bike is perfect, disappears underneath me" to "omg, this pain sux"... there is no going back.

I'm sorry you hurt.:( Hope the knee is better soon.:)

[MartianDestiny]

SHEESH! I don't think anyone implied you should have to "bribe" them with treats or that they should be anything but professional regardless. There was also no indication this guy wasn't professional; in fact Owl's update shows the exact opposite.

If you ever happened to set foot in the shop Kathi and I are speaking of, you'd understand. We aren't "bribing" them at all. We're buying our bestest riding buddies beer and treats because we love them and know they're awesome. Service hasn't changed a bit and I wouldn't expect it to (it really couldn't get better anyway). Honestly, I'd give Chris the shirt off my back if he needed it and certainly NOT because I thought it'd turn into a good deal for me later.

I've been screwed over too, wised up some/learned more, and it's been attempted numerous times since by other shops. Honestly, I thank my lucky stars for it now (I sure didn't then!). Since I'm a short female I tend to know exactly how a shop is going to treat me the second I walk in the door now and I've turned around and marched right back out of plenty of them. That just makes me appreciate the good and great shops I find more though in the end.

[owlgirl]

Ha Ha Ha miranda, I know totally how you feel, don't worry. I got my (new) bike at one LBS, and got fit 5 times before I gave up on them. My right foot is bigger than my left foot (like more than a half size), so on my old bike, my cleats were offset because of this (or that's what i thought). I tried to tell that to the first shop's LBS guys, but they didn't listen. They actually noticed something was off, i can't remember what it was, i think it was that my leg angle was different or maybe it was the knee over the foot plumb line thing, that it was different for each leg. They were like HMMM! WEIRD! so that's when I knew I had to outsource my fit. At the next LBS i've been referring to for this thread discussion, I told this guy about my feet and he didn't offset the cleats. so this second time he did, and now i'm not sure if my old, favorite fit guy noticed the femur discrepency and just didn't tell me? because those cleats were offset, like i said earlier. so it's probably been that way all along. I don't think anything has changed, except i am tighter in my right hip part than the left.


If you ever happened to set foot in the shop Kathi and I are speaking of, you'd understand. We aren't "bribing" them at all. We're buying our bestest riding buddies beer and treats because we love them and know they're awesome. Service hasn't changed a bit and I wouldn't expect it to (it really couldn't get better anyway). Honestly, I'd give Chris the shirt off my back if he needed it and certainly NOT because I thought it'd turn into a good deal for me later.

I've been screwed over too, wised up some/learned more, and it's been attempted numerous times since by other shops. Honestly, I thank my lucky stars for it now (I sure didn't then!). Since I'm a short female I tend to know exactly how a shop is going to treat me the second I walk in the door now and I've turned around and marched right back out of plenty of them. That just makes me appreciate the good and great shops I find more though in the end.

I know what you mean about this too...I love the guys at the first bike shop and they are excellent mechanics, just not the best at fitting. I do take them cookies and beer, and it's fun to hang out and toss one back with them. They have given me so much stuff too because they are nice, so I just feel like giving stuff back and this happens to be in the form of brownies, beer and cookies. And about the short female thing, well, I know about that too, sometimes I feel like you have to demonstrate your knowledge of cycling before you get any respect!!!! but from then on it's fine!