How much does the bike really matter?

[zatar]

Apologies in advance if this isn't the right forum... I couldn't really decide which section to post in. :o

I just joined a cycling team this year and have my first road race tomorrow! My team members have really helped me to build up my bike handling skills and I'm excited to start racing. I've seen a lot of improvement so far and even shaved 5 minutes of my time on a ~13 mile course. :D

The only lingering concern I have now is my bike. I ride a 2007 Marin Portofina with pretty much all stock components. My parents bought it for me, as an 18th birthday present from REI, and I've really enjoyed it so far. I got it professionally fitted in late November 09, but have already outgrown it (thanks to a very late growth spurt!). I imagine the pain that has developed recently could be alleviated by raising the saddle, but I haven't done so yet.

I have started to look at new bikes, since I now have a (very weak) excuse to do so. I am wondering if it's worthwhile to make the jump to a more expensive bike? I looked at the Specialized Dolce Sport and Specialized Allez Elite at the bike shop today. I'd like to keep my cost below $1000, but might be able to spend $1500 - $2000 if it would make a huge difference.

I think I'm just feeling a little discouraged because I feel like I work really hard to improve myself as a rider, but then, I handicap myself by not splurging on a fancier bike. I was especially frustrated with myself last week because I felt I did really well at my first time trial (20.55mph, 194 avg HR), but my time wasn't very good. I didn't use any aero equipment and raced in my heavy-duty winter training tires. I think part of this was an unconscious way of shifting blame from myself to my bike, and I am upset with myself about that. It's like I don't give myself a chance at success, because that opens the possibility that I could have everything I need and still fail.

I think that's a large part of why I haven't splurged on a fancier bike already, but I'm tired of being that way. I think I want to go for it and buy a lighter bike. I noticed that I have no problem riding with teammates when they're on their rain bikes, but when they have their race bikes out, it's sometimes hard for me to keep up.

I guess all of this rambling can be condensed into a few questions.
1) How much does the weight and quality of the bike really matter?
2) Is it worthwhile to spend a significant amount of money on a road bike with nicer components (Shimano 105 range, probably), or should I save my money and continue trying to focus on improving myself only?

Thanks in advance for any advice and/or input you guys might have!

[kermit]

First off, congrats on your training and commitment. I wish I had the time and I will live vicariously through you and you accomplishments. You have a great opportunity to learn from other racers and pick up on what matters. You could go out and buy a $12,000 Pinarello, but if the bike doesn't fit you are not going to be productive. Obviously all the weight weenies will tell you wheels, tires, yeah, they make a difference, but it's still the engine. I'm sure in the racing arena, you will be surrounded by dream bikes, it's all about the dollar bill. It also sounds like if you are outgrowing your bike, your fit is what may need to be adjusted. My advice as recreational rider with friends doing Ironmans, keep you bike and ride the piss out of it. Lighter tires, yeah thats a start.
Take a look at the new Bicycling 2010 buyers guide. Your timing is perfect and the economy being what it is, there are more mid-range great carbon, ultegra bikes cheaper than ever. Start looking, do your homework. I've seen folks on hugely expensive bikes and they can't ride, and I am more impressed with the dude or girl that hoofs on an older steed!

[lunacycles]

How the bike fits matters a lot. If you have outgrown your current bike, you really will benefit from having a bike that fits you well, in both comfort and efficiency (=speed). If you can simply raise your saddle and still maintain an efficient and comfortable position on your current bike, then no problem. If you have grown in the torso as well as the legs, you might be able to put a longer stem on the bike to accommodate the change.

Weight? Not as big of an issue, especially if spending money is an issue. Where you will notice weight the most, in terms of speed, are in the areas you are fighting that weight with every pedal stroke, i.e., rotating weight = wheels/tires, cranks, your bottom bracket.

Components: if your components work as you like them to, no major cause to upgrade. More expensive components work a bit better, and weigh a bit lighter. Again, it is the components that rotate as you ride that matter the most, and where you should focus your attention and $$ when considering an upgrade.

[Zen]

I noticed that I have no problem riding with teammates when they're on their rain bikes, but when they have their race bikes out, it's sometimes hard for me to keep up.



Wow. It's only difficult to keep up sometimes?
When you find your next bike you're really gonna kick asz :)

[MartianDestiny]

Fit is THE key.

If you're hurting from fit then clearly you can't put forth everything you have, even more subtle changes to fit can make differences in output even if you aren't hurting.

Start here. If you've grown AND put forth a decent amount of effort training recently your fit numbers HAVE changed. You can play with this yourself if you want, but it might not be a bad investment to go back in and have a re-fit done, especially if you are having fit related pain.

As for the bike itself, IMO, there is a certain pricepoint/equipment level that really can make a large improvement. After that you pay exponentially more for very little added gain (and this is coming from someone with a $4k carbon "wonder-bike"...I assure you that is because it has the "ear-to-ear grin" effect, not because it makes me a significantly faster rider than say a $1k aluminum and 105 level bike would).

I don't know enough about the Marin to comment meaningfully on it specifically. Something to think about, if a re-fit will get you comfortable again on the frame and you haven't grown up a whole size, may be replacing a few components. New wheels and tires or maybe a GOOD set of clip-on aerobars if you plan on doing more than the passing time trial. You may not need a whole new bike to feel like you have a whole new bike.

[Zen]

I think she wants a new bike.

[zatar]

Wow, thanks for all the quick replies (and compliments!). :D

It sounds like my first step should be to evaluate whether my current bike will still be able to fit me. It felt pretty big when I first got it, but by last summer, it felt perfect. After my bike fit, they cut my stem down a ton. They also tipped my saddle back a little to alleviate numbness in my hands, but I noticed some soft-tissue pain after that. I was told that it was pretty much a trade-off between the two problems, which makes sense, I guess.

I've mostly just ignored the occasional soreness, but now, with my growth spurt, it feels really awkward to be on my bike. Both of my achilles tendons have been bothering me, and I've noticed some new knee pain as well. I'm not sure if my torso has gotten longer, but I know that my legs have for sure; all of my long pants are 2-3" too short now. :eek:

I did buy new tires today, so I am excited about that and hoping it will help a little! My team has a deal with Neuvation, so I could probably get new wheels through there. I haven't noticed a problem with my components (all Shimano Sora), so I think I'll stick with them?

[zatar]

I think she wants a new bike.

I think you're right. ;) There's a part of me that really wants a new bike, but I also am a little intimidated. I don't want people to think, "Wow, she's on a really nice bike and still going slow??" Of course, there's also the money issue too. I just graduated from university last March and have a relatively well-paying job (for my age), but not huge amounts of money to spend without a good reason.

[marni]

I'm sorry but I don't think of 20.5 miles as slow. I struggle to get myself up to 16-18 mph on most rides, even though I train well and work hard. There's only so much an aging body can do and at least you have youth as a relatrive advantage. As to the new bike, you need to listen to others for fit, components etc. Good luck with it all.

marni

[Cataboo]

I don't know what's on the portofino... I'm not sure I agree with your bike fit... If you're having soft tissue issues with your saddle, you probably need a new saddle. You want the saddle about level - not tilted forward because that puts more weight on your hands... WIth your seat level, you shouldn't have soft tissue issues if you have the right saddle for you.

IF you have $1,000 to spend... what I think I'd recommend is you get the bike checked to make sure it fits you... Some of your racing friends can probably help a lot to help you set the saddle at the right height, etc...

If that frame actually does fit you - then I'd either recommend you invest in a good set of wheels for your current bike, good wheels'll make a big difference to you... or get an upgrade to your drive train. at least 105 level, probably compact double by 10 speed.

that'll stretch your $1,000 further.

If your portofino doesn't fit... then yes, upgrade the bike... but I'm not sure I'd tell you to go into a bike shop with $1k, if you're on the racing scene, you may be able to pick up a great bike used for $1k from some other person with racing fever... or someone should be knowledgeable enough to help you find a good used bike. You may be able to get used components or wheels off someone else, as well.

But bike fit does make a huge difference.

I guess this is your bike, unless you have the women's version:
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2007&Brand=Marin&Model=Portofino&Type=bike

The alex wheels on it or the sora components aren't great... I'm not sure a specialized dolce sort is really going to be an upgrade for you... yeha, it's got some zertz inserts, but you're still talking about alex wheels & sora componetry:
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2010&Brand=Specialized&Model=Dolce+Sport&Type=bike

the allez elite seems to have slightly higher end components..
http://bikepedia.com/QuickBike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2010&Brand=Specialized&Model=Allez+Elite&Type=bike


But... TEST RIDE. You'll be able to tell if either of these bikes feel faster when you ride them.

Get your saddle height checked before your next race. If you know someone who has nice wheels, why not ask to borrow a set of their wheels for a test ride to try to see how much difference it makes?

I have nicer bikes spec wise than you, but I'm not as fast as you... So there's only so much difference a bike upgrade can do if the motor is just going put put. I do feel the difference with certain tires and certain wheels, even if it's only a 1-2 mph advantage.

[dianne_1234]

Assuming everything's clean, lubed, well adjusted and fits okay, upgrading your bike's frame or Shimano components won't make much difference in speed. Upgrading your saddle might, if you can reduce soft tissue pain.

For component upgrades, I've found measurements help; I don't have to judge what might be small differences by feel. Fortunately I don't have to measure everything myself, either - others have measured for me!

Here's an old article about how to go faster on a racing bike:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/formulas.htm
There's no expiration date on physics so it's still helpful even though it's old.

The author points out that most of the resistance at racing speeds comes from aerodynamic drag. There's a table showing time savings from various upgrades. Here's where the article's age matters - you can't get most of those parts any more. But what may be pertinent to your situation is that there are no component class upgrades (Sora to 105) listed!

For faster tires, consider rolling resistance. For racing I use tires with low rolling resistance. I choose them by looking at this list, starting at the top:
http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev8.pdf
Of course, tempered with other info, like does my sponsor's shop sell them, flat resistance, price, etc.

In the end, basics for racing sucess are (1) Power (your legs!), (2) Racing smarts (your head!), (17) a basic functional bike in good condition. I've arbitrarily made the bike number 17 to make the point that there are other more important things, like good rest, recovery, motivation, teammates, etc.

Have a great time!

[Biciclista]

You might go to Sammamish bike they have race wheels you could try out. There are great fit people at several of our favorite Seattle bike shops too. IT would take one of them 5 minutes to help you decide about whether you need a new bike or not. If it's just your legs that grew, raise your seat and buy yourself some fab wheels. Good luck!

[kiwibug]

I have a specialized dolce elite and I LOVE it. I kind of stumbled into buying it, I didn't do nearly enough research and I probably didn't need such a light bike - I'm not nearly fast enough to do it justice, so I guess I fit into that category of people with a nice bike who can't ride ;) Sometimes I wonder whether a Surly long haul trucker would have suited me better, and I figure that I can always add one to my stable later! My dolce feels like.. a second skin? I don't know how to explain it.

My advice to you would be to go to your LBS and try some bikes out. See how they feel. See how you feel. And if you have a nice bike, and then you realize that you aren't as fast even with a light bike - that's honestly the worst that can happen - And it's not even a huge deal. It sounds to me like you're a younger rider (I myself am still in university), and I figure we have years of cycling left, years to build up fitness. I'm okay with being able to grow into my bike a bit - I just started getting serious about cycling last year, so I have some time to get as fast as I want to be, and that's okay too.

Edit: I'd just like to add that I know nothing about racing but I support you in your quest for a new bike!

[WindingRoad]

Go to a shop and get fitted and look for a used bike. With connections of your race team I'm sure they will know of someone looking to sell a really nice bike for a heck of a lot less than what the shops charge. That's just my spin on it.

[zatar]

Thanks again so much for all of the replies.

I talked to my teammates a lot today and one offered to sell me her extra Ultegra (!) components very inexpensively. We didn't talk exact numbers yet, but I'm expecting it will be a huge upgrade to go from all Sora components to Ultegra.

I also am planning on going to a physical therapist for another bike fit. I have a history of weird orthopedic injuries and think I could really benefit from a PT's view of my biomechanics on the bike. One of my teammates said that I sometimes bounce when pedaling, which is likely a fit issue too. I'm hoping the PT will also be able to suggest a different saddle that I can try.

So, in conclusion, I think I'm going to stick with my current frame, but upgrade different parts of the bike. My priorities are:
1) Wheels (will buy Neuvation wheels through the team)
2) Tires (bought a pair of the Vittoria Open Corsa Evo tires yesterday and love them already!)
3) Sora --> Ultegra :D
4) New saddle (possibly one with cut-out?)
5) Swap out adjustable stem for lighter one.

I'm excited! It's not a new bike, but am guessing it will feel like one, by the time I'm done :)

I think I am feeling better in general about my bike too because I was still able to be relatively competitive during the race today. I didn't win, or even place that well, but I was really happy with how I did. We had about 15+ women working together towards the end and I won the sprint from that group! I realized that I was still able to beat some people, even though I know at least some had nicer bikes. It was pretty awesome!

[TrekTheKaty]

Go to a shop and get fitted and look for a used bike. With connections of your race team I'm sure they will know of someone looking to sell a really nice bike for a heck of a lot less than what the shops charge. That's just my spin on it.

My SIL picked up a top-end mountain bike for half-price from a female racer that gets a new bike every year. Anybody on the team that's your frame size?

With ortho issues, you might want to visit a bike shop and get their opinion on what frame size you should be on--apparently what they recommend has changed over the years. My current bike is several sizes different from my original hybrid and its PERFECT!

You might also consider consulting a reputable bike shop for a fit again, unless your PT specializes in cycling. My DH thought he could read an article and do it himself, but the tweets made at the bike shop were the BOMB!

Good luck!

[WindingRoad]

If it were me (and it was at one point, I had a Giant OCR3 with a very similar set up) I would change those shifters asap. You are losing so much time monkeying around with those while you are racing. You can't shift them from the drops which I found to be a complete nuisance. Yes that stem weights a lot and since you've been professionally fitted there's no need for it.

I would honestly keep an ear out for another bike someone may be selling. You have a nice bike but it would also be good to have a rain bike. You may be surprised how easy it is to sink $1000 into the bike you have and I'm pretty sure you could pick up a used bike for about that too. Keep it in mind cuz then you have a backup bike which in racing I've found is a good thing to have. Unfortunately wrecks happen and bikes have to go to shops where you may not get them back for a week or so.

[Cataboo]

Yeah, shifters may not necessarily make you go faster - but higher end shifters are lighter, which does impact how much effort you have to do to get the bike moving. And they get rid of a lot of hassle factor.

Race or faster wheels are likely something that will help her a lot now, and she'll probably still need if she gets a new/used bike.

Checking the crank fit might help as well - maybe she needs longer/shorter cranks (could contribute to the leg pains), maybe stiffer or carbon cranks would help a bit.

[zatar]

Thanks again for the continued replies. Very helpful to hear all of the opinions from you guys!

I think switching out the components is a definite priority for me. I'm feeling really lucky right now because a teammate just offered to sell me her Ultegra-SL components for $200. So awesome. :grin I never imagined that I'd be able to afford a bike with Ultegra-level components at my age!

Next on the list is a bike fit from a PT with lots of cycling experience (former pro mtb racer, cat 1 cyclocross, etc.). One of my teammates had really positive things to say about her, so I'm very excited about this too! I've got lots of issues that I'm hoping to tackle with the bike fit including: her suggestions for a new saddle, crank length (currenly 170mm, but the ultegra ones are 172.5), achilles tendon pain, knee pain, and upper back pain. I'm sort of a mess at the moment!

And I think wheels will be the last upgrade for now. Might wait on swapping out the adjustable stem for a while...

[Cataboo]

$200 for ultegra sl level components is great :) I hope the fitter can fix all your issues.

[zatar]

Well, I've still been thinking about this thread a lot...

I raced again last weekend and was excited to finish in the top 10 (in my 2nd race ever!!). I was happy with how the race went and really excited about the rest of the season.

I had my appointment for the bike fit today and although she was very nice, I'm a little discouraged. I think she did as best as she could, but still, it's not a perfect fit. I found out the shop that did my first fit (a sponsor of the team) cut my carbon fork too short, so we couldn't really (safely) switch out stems. Also, because it was such an inexpensive bike, it's hard to justify pouring tons of money into it.

I just am feeling a little down, at the moment. In my previous sport, it was purely a matter of your body and mind. It didn't matter what kind of gear you had; everybody was equal. In this sport, it feels like so much of it can come down to money. I feel like people don't take me seriously because they see my bike and I hate that. I want them to judge me for how I ride, not for how expensive my bike looks.

I guess I just need to reevaluate. I am trying to race as much as I can right now and that takes a lot of money too (for lodging, food, gas, etc.). I'm wondering if I'd be better off racing less frequently and buying a better-fitting bike? I am hoping I'll be able to get through the season on my current bike, but it's not a very good fit anymore (most likely because I've grown a lot since getting it).

Maybe part of this disappointment is just realizing that cycling is not the perfect sport I thought it was. No sport is perfect, and I know that deep down, but cycling really felt like it was it. I still really love it, but I'm frustrated at how expensive I'm finding it can be.

[Jiffer]

If you are committed to riding and actually get a lot of use out of your bike, especially since you are racing, even ... I'd say splurge on the better bike. As far as I'm concerned it makes a big difference. Spend as much as you can reasonably afford. Consider buying used. You can find some pretty sweet deals used, as long as you know what you are looking for. Dh spent about $2,000 on ebay on a "barely" used MTB which would have cost $4,000 or $5,000 brand new. He called our LBS owner and asked if it was a good deal and the guy told him BUY IT!

My friend bought the previous year's Ruby Expert and saved some good money. It was brand new, but they needed to make room for the new one's coming in. In fact, right now might be a good time for you to look for last year's models. She bought hers in February a couple of years ago.

Another option is to upgrade your components a little at a time. Dh's first bike was a $700 used Cannondale. He changed out components little by little, adding DuraAce shifters and other high end components. After he upgraded all the components, he bought a new frame and had all the components switched to the new frame. Eventually when I was ready for a road bike (after riding tandem with him for a while), he bought a new upgraded bike for himself, we bought me a new frame and put all the components from his old bike on that frame. So my first bike was (is) pretty darn sweet. Since then, we have changed out various parts here and there to suit what I needed. (A compact double crank set instead of double, smaller handlebars so I can reach the brakes better and am more comfortable in the drops, new lighter wheels for climbing, etc.)

So, another option for you right now is to keep the bike you have and start changing up some of the components. Or upgrade your whole bike with what you can afford to spend right now, but maybe upgrade your components to even better one's a little at a time.

[zatar]

Thanks for the input, jiffer!

I did end up going to a bike shop today to look for lightly-used and/or older model road bikes. They didn't have much in my size, but there was a 2009 Kona Lisa RD that looked interesting. $900 for full ultegra! The frame material was similar to my current bike (aluminum with a carbon fork). Wheels looked a little nicer. AND, from the 5 seconds on the bike, the fit seemed about 10000x better. I've already shelled out about $300 for 2 bike fits now and this one felt better right off the bat :(

I figure with my current bike, I'll probably be spending $200 for ultegra components, $250 for new wheels, $100 for a shorter stem. So, I'd be investing about $550 into my current bike, if I wanted to bring it up to the level of the $900 bike I saw today. So, $450 difference right there, and if I am able to part with my current bike, they'll take it as a trade-in... Seems like it might be worth a few hundred to have a bike that fit me really well.

I just don't know if I want to stick with my current bike, go up a step, or go all the way to a full-carbon (or titanium, if I'm really dreaming) bike.

I think full-carbon is probably still too expensive for my 20 year-old budget right now. I already know that I want to focus on track cycling, so I would prefer to spend my money there. But, I still do enjoy the road races, and would like to have a bike that is "good enough" to where I could be competitive.

I also need to look up the geometry of the Kona bike I saw today. The one I tested was a 46cm and my current bike is a 49.5cm. I know they're measured differently, but I expected to be looking at 50cm or 51cm, since my main concern is outgrowing another frame!

Sorry for all of my rambling -- just trying to make the best decision here...

[zatar]

Thanks for the input, jiffer!

I did end up going to a bike shop today to look for lightly-used and/or older model road bikes. They didn't have much in my size, but there was a 2009 Kona Lisa RD that looked interesting. $900 for ultegra/105! The frame material was similar to my current bike (aluminum with a carbon fork). Wheels looked a little nicer. AND, from the 5 seconds on the bike, the fit seemed about 10000x better. I've already shelled out about $300 for 2 bike fits now and this one felt better right off the bat :(

I figure with my current bike, I'll probably be spending $200 for ultegra components, $250 for new wheels, $100 for a shorter stem. So, I'd be investing about $550 into my current bike, if I wanted to bring it up to the level of the $900 bike I saw today. So, $350 difference right there, and if I am able to part with my current bike, they'll take it as a trade-in... Seems like it might be worth a few hundred to have a bike that fit me really well.

I just don't know if I want to stick with my current bike, go up a step, or go all the way to a full-carbon (or titanium, if I'm really dreaming) bike.

I think full-carbon is probably still too expensive for my 20 year-old budget right now. I already know that I want to focus on track cycling, so I would prefer to spend my money there. But, I still do enjoy the road races, and would like to have a bike that is "good enough" to where I could be competitive.

I also need to look up the geometry of the Kona bike I saw today. The one I tested was a 46cm and my current bike is a 49.5cm. I know they're measured differently, but I expected to be looking at 50cm or 51cm, since my main concern is outgrowing another frame!

Sorry for all of my rambling -- just trying to make the best decision here...

[aicabsolut]

Here are my thoughts having been racing for a few years....

You don't need carbon. Getting a really nice aluminum frame like a Cannondale CAAD9 will probably be stiffer than low-end carbon, and cheaper. I really enjoy the feel of a nice carbon frame, but that is out of your price range. You don't need full carbon. Just get something that fits.

Since you're saving some on the frame (FYI low end carbon race bikes are often in the $2000 mark), go for some decent components. It doesn't have to be Dura Ace. However, with Shimano groups, there is a good bit of functionality improvement when you move up in the hierarchy as well as a reduction in weight. So, for example, my Dura Ace shifters are a dream compared to my old 105. The 105 was fine for me to start racing on, but they were kind of a hassle. The throw was far and difficult. I had many more dropped chains. I hated the brakes, though they have improved the brakes since I got that group. I really don't have to think about my shifting anymore, and that is a relief. It is easier to keep in tune.

You might consider moving to SRAM if you're going to upgrade most of the group anyway (SRAM is still Shimano compatible with chains, cassettes/wheels). SRAM Rival is pretty good bang for buck. It's heavier than the other SRAM road groups, but it is functionally the same.

A CAAD9 4 or 5 will be a great race machine for under $2k, and it or something comparable in another brand will be an improvement over the Dolce, Allez, or a low end carbon bike.

Finally, getting a new bike will mostly make you feel a bit better, hopefully give you a good fit, but you still need to train the engine, as others have said. There are some improvements that can help you in the long run, as you develop as a racer. A better quality bike can help reduce fatigue by giving you a smoother ride. Aero wheels might help you go a little harder a little longer because you can save some watts holding a certain speed. Aero wheels might help you descend faster. A stiff bike and stiff wheels will also make accelerations feel crisper and you might notice that they feel nice on climbs, but a fancy bike isn't going to launch you from a top 10 finish to a win all by itself.

These are pretty subtle differences that mostly have to do with rider comfort. I surely don't put out enough watts to flex many frames or cranksets, but there is something smooth and a little less "mushy" feeling about a high quality bike. So, I might be very slightly more efficient due to my bike, but it is mostly just enjoyable to ride. There are plenty of people on heavier, less "fancy" bikes than mine that kick my butt on a regular basis.

[zatar]

Wow, that is great input, aicabsolut!

I talked to a few teammates this weekend about getting a new bike and they were supportive as well. The weight (~24-25 pounds) isn't a huge concern to me because I'm able to stay with the pack on climbs and don't really think I'll ever be one of those super-fast hill climbers anyway. I agree that full-carbon is probably not necessary right now and an aluminum frame with carbon fiber fork would probably be just fine.

But fit and components are definitely more important to me now that I've got a few races under my belt. I think my top tube is just way too long on my current bike. I'm about 5'3" and have relatively long legs (31" inseam), but short arms (and torso). I'm afraid that finding a frame that fits my weirdly-proportioned body is going to be a huge challenge.

Components-wise, I will definitely look into SRAM. I didn't realize they were compatible with Shimano. If I do end up with Shimano, I'd like to go with full Ultegra, but may only be able to afford 105. I'm hoping even 105 will seem like a huge improvement, however, after racing on all Sora components now. I'm starting to really dislike getting out of the drops to shift.

I will also try to keep the focus on working to improve myself, rather than getting distracted by different bike choices. I didn't do as well as I had hoped at both races this weekend, and am really starting to wonder if my performances before were just because I was new. :confused:

Two weeks ago, I was able to attack close to the finish and they all just watched me go. I tried it again yesterday and they chased me down. I think I need to train quite a bit harder now and also try some new tactics, so that I'm stronger and not as predictable.

[Jiffer]

You don't need carbon. Getting a really nice aluminum frame like a Cannondale CAAD9 will probably be stiffer than low-end carbon, and cheaper.

I have a CAAD9 frame. If you can't get carbon (a Cannondale Super Six, of which, I of course am completely lusting after!) ... the CAAD9 is an excellent choice. It's one of the lightest, if not THE lightest aluminum frame. It has been raced on in the Tour de France. My CAAD9 is about the same weight, if not lighter, than a Specialized Ruby frame, which is carbon. (There are many categories of carbon.) My CAAD9 with the components I have make it 16.9 lbs. If you buy a CAAD9 stock at a store, it will have different components and will be heavier, but probably significantly lighter than your current bike, which much better components than you currently have.

I can't say if a CAAD9 would fit you well. Remember that handlebars make a big difference. I think I mentioned in my post that my original handlebars were dh's. I finally realized I needed "compact" handlebars, even though I'm the same height as my husband. They are basically handlebars that are sized for women or smaller framed men. My husband actually wants my handlebars! It made such a difference for me in getting in the drops and controlling the bike, shifting and braking. The right bike fitter should be able to help you know what size frame you need, stem, handlebars, etc. Sounds like maybe you haven't had luck finding the right person.

Anyway, those are my 2 cents. :)

[aicabsolut]

Yeah, tactics are the hardest part of bike racing. The fittest and strongest and/or those with the snazziest bike frequently don't win races. It's one thing if you are so strong, comparatively, that you can just ride away from everyone, but most of us aren't so lucky :p.

If you put in a good attack one weekend, then yeah, it makes sense that the women aren't going to let you get away so easily from now on. I enjoy attacking in races. I am not a strong sprinter, but I can TT decently, so I attack, attack, attack. I am searching for that break that sticks. My regular competitors realize this about me and generally aren't going to let me get away with it. The best chance I have is to attack with someone from a better-represented team than mine and let her teammates do some field control for me. Also, in the lower category races (if you have any 4 only or 3/4 races), all attacks are typically chased down no matter how big of a threat the attacker is. So, keep that in mind.

Try some bikes in your price range in different geometries. Don't worry about the components too much when you test ride, though give SRAM and the best Shimano you can afford a try. Once you have an idea of what fits and what components you like, then start putting together your short list of options (full bike, frame + parts, etc.). Also check on your shop's fitting policies. Sometimes, when the bike is new you can do a swap out on things like stem and bars and just pay the difference in price (if any). They ought to throw in at least a basic fit with your bike purchase.

Does your team have any relationship with a shop or a bike manufacturer? Look into that and see if you can use that to your advantage. For example, is there one night in the season where you can order things near cost or at deep discount from your shop? Can you get a deal on a certain bike for the team?

[zatar]

Wow, thank you both for the advice; very awesome and helpful yet again!

I found a 50cm Cannondale SuperSix frame today on Craig's List and have emailed to see if it's still available. It looks like the top tube effective length would be about 10mm shorter than my current bike, but I'm not sure if that's enough.

I like the idea of compact handlebars too. One of my teammates mentioned Salsa Poco handlebars, but I'm open to other suggestions, as well.

Our team has a local bike shop as a sponsor, but after finding out last week that they cut my carbon fork way too short, I don't trust them to work on my bikes or sell me new ones. Also, the bikes they sell are very high end, and about 400% of my current budget (even with the discount!).

I do plan on going to my LBS at home as soon as I can. I may try to get there tomorrow night or take off work Wednesday to get home. They sell Giant, Specialized, and Felt only, so my choices are relatively limited, but I'm crossing my fingers that they'll have an 09 model to fit my body. It also helps that I have a 10% discount there. I would love to be able to buy a bike from them because they have always been amazing to me.

As far as racing goes, I am trying to just soak up as much knowledge as I can now. I'm lucky to have a few very supportive people (team captain, cycling mentor, PT) that are helping me a lot to learn about what I did well (and not so well). I really love that it seems like there's a ton to learn at every race so far and the tactics part is especially exciting to me. In a way, I'm glad that I can't get away with the easy stuff anymore, it will make me a smarter rider in the end :D

[zatar]

I spent all afternoon yesterday test-riding bikes :D

The LBS at home had a Giant Avail and a Specialized Dolce Comp, but I wasn't very impressed to be honest. I feel like they wouldn't be much of an upgrade compared to my current bike.

I really, really liked the Felt road bikes, but was surprised that the WSD (ZW5) felt less comfortable then a regular racing model (F75). I noticed a huge difference in my ability to take corners. It was like night and day, compared to my current bike. They also felt extremely light and stiff.

I looked at a few Cannondale models yesterday too, but didn't test ride yet. I plan to go to a different Cannondale dealer this morning to test ride a few models, as well as a Kona and Jamis dealer. I've also set up an appointment with a person from Craig's List to test ride a LaPierre S-Lite 100. I don't think I'll like it because I want a really stiff frame, but figured I'll check it out, just in case.

At this point, I'm still unsure of my final decision. The Kona Lisa RD feels like a great deal to me ($900 for ultegra/105 mix), but I'm unsure about how it handles. I also don't want to just settle for a "good deal" now and end up upgrading my frame again in a few years. I feel like the Felt road bikes were awesome to ride, but the geometry is very similar to my current bike, so I am worried that they won't be a very good "fit" for me either.

[Cataboo]

can you get some sort of geometry table from the fitter that you worked with to decide your bike wouldn't work for you? Some ideal geometry for you that you can use to judge these bikes you're test riding? Or take her the geometry of the bikes you're considering to see what she thinks of them?

It sounds like your bike can be made to fit you if the fork hadn't been cut so short - so the felts might work.

[kermit]

I would spend some time with the Jamis bikes, I have heard great things about their new designs.

[zatar]

can you get some sort of geometry table from the fitter that you worked with to decide your bike wouldn't work for you? Some ideal geometry for you that you can use to judge these bikes you're test riding? Or take her the geometry of the bikes you're considering to see what she thinks of them?

It sounds like your bike can be made to fit you if the fork hadn't been cut so short - so the felts might work.

Yes, I think that's a very good idea. I feel a little guilty at this point to be even looking for a new bike, because the fitter last week spent about 3 hours with me and decided to order new (60 and 70mm) stems that we could try. We've talked a little over email about last weekend's races and she still seems pretty committed to trying to make my current bike work for me. I don't know exactly how to tell her that I'm ready to buy a new bike now. I don't want it to seem like I don't appreciate the efforts she has made in making my current bike fit me, or that her time last week was a complete waste. Most of that time was focused on my biomechanical issues, and I definitely plan on using that knowledge in the future, even with a different bike.

I think I've just realized that I would like a lighter, stiffer bike with higher-level components, and (possibly) a shorter top tube. I've realized that racing is way more fun than I even imagined and I'm willing to invest a significant amount in a bike, if it will make the experience more enjoyable...

Off to test-ride a few more bikes (Jamis, Kona, and possibly Cannondale) now! :D

[aicabsolut]

Keep us updated.

IMO, a 60 or 70mm stem is really really really short for a race bike. A friend of mine moved from 110 to 80 recently and said he couldn't tell a difference other than he nearly smacks his knees on the bars when he sprints now. To me, though, I notice a big difference in handling with short stems. A 60mm stem would be so twitchy!

I also like being stretched out, so take the above comment for what it's worth. The guys at the LBS tried to get me to move from a 54cm to a 52cm when I got my last bike, but I am considering moving from a 110mm stem to a 120mm stem on the 54! I am just not comfortable out of the saddle with this reach a lot of the time. I am holding off, though, due to a shoulder injury that may not resolve itself anytime soon. I guess it's better to be comfortable 90% of the time and then just try to deal with the awkward reach in the sprint or when climbing out of the saddle. I've got some deeper drop bars to help a little with sprinting.

[Aquila]

I'm sorry to be a bit off topic, but... every time I see the header to this thread, I think:

"The bike matters one hundred percent! Without the bike you're just running!"

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[zatar]

I'm sorry to be a bit off topic, but... every time I see the header to this thread, I think:

"The bike matters one hundred percent! Without the bike you're just running!

Of course it does :p

Pretty unsuccessful day of bike browsing today. The first shop (Cannondale, Jamis, Kona) dealer didn't have any road bikes. The other shop (Cervelo, Scott, some others) didn't have any that interested me.

I test road a LaPierre S Lite 100, but at 46cm, it felt extremely small to me. Almost like riding a clown bike. And the weirdest part is it made my upper back hurt the worst. :confused: I thought that pain had been from reaching too far on my bike (people have said that I look really stretched out), but I'm confused now. The Felt yesterday didn't cause that upper back pain and the top tube was 5mm longer.

Maybe my current bike is fine? I could get a smaller stem (70mm would be the minimum that I'd be comfortable with, I think), lighter wheels, better components, and compact handlebars?

To be continued...

[dianne_1234]

Maybe my current bike is fine?

You could even buy a different fork (new or used) with a longer steerer tube to "undo" your bike's currently-too-short steerer tube.

[zatar]

Yep, I think I could just buy a new carbon fork, but after checking with my bike fitter, she agreed that it's not really worth it for my current frame. We'll try new stems this weekend as a temporary solution, and hopefully I'll be able to find one, so that I can keep my current bike as a "rain bike."

I also found a CAAD9 frame on Craig's List today and was initially very excited, but have a gut feeling that it may be stolen. I asked the seller about what components it has and she answered, "it has a milano seat cero ifs2 cranks." I asked about pedals and she replied that it has, "it has shimano 105 pedals." :confused:

I did ask for the serial number and checked it in the national stolen bike registry. There were no matches, but I am starting to wonder if it was a serial number from the saddle or some other part of the bike because it doesn't match the pattern I've found for other Cannondale serial numbers. It's only 6 digits long and doesn't include the frame size.

So, I'm just not sure. I really want to buy the CAAD9 (it's a good deal!), but I don't want to buy a stolen bike. I am trying very hard to decipher whether it's really stolen, or she just doesn't know much about bikes...

[Cataboo]

You do get a lot of females on craigslist who are selling bikes that their bf's/husbands bought for them in an effort to get them to ride with them - and they never got into it. So they don't necessarily have a clue about any of the componentry on the bike. I think a bike thief with a cannondale hoping to get a good price for it - would know what the components are.

but ask her why she is selling it.

[zatar]

That's true; a good bike thief would probably know about the components. She told me that she is moving and doesn't have room to take it with her.

I've emailed with even more questions (Did she ride it a lot? When and where did she buy it?). I figure if she passes the "test" on those, then I'll definitely go see it in-person. I'm pretty interested in it.

[aicabsolut]

re: upper back pain --

I had a lot of shoulder/upper back discomfort when I first started riding. I thought it was because I wasn't used to the position. After a couple months, i went back to the shop and got re-fitted. They had set me up fairly relaxed to start, but I wasn't comfortable, and I wanted a better position for racing. They flipped my stem down and lowered the bars (increasing my reach by quite a bit). The handling improved a lot, and no more upper back discomfort!

I don't really get any reach problems except in my lower back when my core is out of shape, or sometimes in my neck when my bars are too low such that it's difficult to look where I'm going. Maybe you need a longer reach than you thought! It doesn't really matter what it looks like to others--what matters is that you're comfortable! Your "functional" reach is more involved than your static body measurements. It has a lot to do with how you move on the bike.

[zatar]

That's interesting about your upper back pain, aicabsolut. I think I may be the same way. I've always been way too flexible (hypermobile), and it doesn't seem to bother my lower back at all to be down in the drops. It's more on rides when I do a lot of climbing, or when I'm on a very small frame (like the 46cm bike I tried on Wednesday), that I feel some discomfort.

I think I am getting close to a decision though, which is good. My plan tomorrow is go to the local bike shop early tomorrow and test out 2-3 of their Cannondale bikes (Six, Synapse, and CAAD9). Right now, the Six looks very appealing to me (the carbon seat stays sound interesting), but I won't know how it rides until I try it.

If I like the Six best, I'll probably go with the local bike shop. They have a 2009 for $300 off MSRP. They also offer a stem replacement program, 1 year of maintenance, and a bike fit with purchase of a bike. Also, buying a new bike would allow me to utilize the Cannondale lifetime frame warranty, should I ever need to do so.

If I like the CAAD9 better, my decision will be tough. It's the same price at the lbs as the Six, but the one on Craig's List is about half the price! I could save a lot of money if I get the one on Craig's List, but I could have to pay for a fit, maintenance, and bike fit, if I go that route. Also, the warranty wouldn't apply (since I would not be the original owner).

I feel like I'm making progress, but I'm so nervous about the decision! Part of me really wants to buy one tomorrow, test ride it in the afternoon for an hour or so, and race on it Sunday, but I know that won't be smart. I'll race on my normal bike Sunday, and maybe be adjusted enough to the new one by next week, to race on it then.

Thanks again to everybody who has offered their input in this thread so far. It's been incredibly helpful to discuss my decision with you guys!

[zatar]

I'm finding this whole bike-shopping experience to be incredibly draining. :(

I woke up early this morning to be at the lbs a little after they opened. I test rode the Synapse (48cm), Six (48cm), and CAAD9 (51cm). The Synapse was definitely the most comfortable of the three, but the CAAD9 was the most fun to ride by far. I loved it.

I checked my email upon returning home from the lbs and saw that the Craig's List seller had replied. She let me know that she already sold the bike. I was pretty bummed at this point, as I had decided the 48cm CAAD9 was exactly what I wanted.

I then searched all of the nearby Cannondale dealers and found one 2009 CAAD9 7 about 4 miles away. I couldn't believe my luck. $775 for a brand new bike! I planned on switching out the Sora components ASAP anyway, but was so excited! I knew exactly what I wanted when I got there, so I asked about it. The salesperson went back to check with a coworker and upon returning, told me that there was somebody putting a deposit on it right then. I spotted her quickly and felt so disappointed. I really, really wanted that bike.

As it happened, we both left the shop at the same time, and we had parked next to each other. I heard her friend talking about the bike and decided to strike up a conversation. She said she really liked it and would be picking it up tonight. I told her that if she changed her mind, I would definitely be interested in buying it. Then, I proceeded to get in my car and fall apart emotionally. All of the sudden I was crying over a bike and I couldn't stop. It was awkward (she was in the car next to me), but I didn't even care at that point. I missed that bike by minutes. I still can't believe it.

My one last idea is to check a few of the REIs around me. They carry Cannondale, but I'm not sure how to check if they have 2009 models in stock. Their website only lists the 2010 models. :(

I'm really trying to stay positive. My current bike still works. It has been "good enough" for me the past two years, so there's no logical reason that it would suddenly not be "good enough" overnight. It is making me stronger to train and race on it. I know that I'll be racing a familiar bike tomorrow.

Also, by missing out on the two bikes today, I avoided making an impulsive decision. I felt so rushed to get over there this afternoon for the CAAD9 7 and didn't honestly have much time to think about it. I still think it was the right decision, but at least now, I'll have a little more time to think about it.

[Ana]

I'm finding this whole bike-shopping experience to be incredibly draining. :(

I woke up early this morning to be at the lbs a little after they opened. I test rode the Synapse (48cm), Six (48cm), and CAAD9 (51cm). The Synapse was definitely the most comfortable of the three, but the CAAD9 was the most fun to ride by far. I loved it.

I checked my email upon returning home from the lbs and saw that the Craig's List seller had replied. She let me know that she already sold the bike. I was pretty bummed at this point, as I had decided the 48cm CAAD9 was exactly what I wanted.

I then searched all of the nearby Cannondale dealers and found one 2009 CAAD9 7 about 4 miles away. I couldn't believe my luck. $775 for a brand new bike! I planned on switching out the Sora components ASAP anyway, but was so excited! I knew exactly what I wanted when I got there, so I asked about it. The salesperson went back to check with a coworker and upon returning, told me that there was somebody putting a deposit on it right then. I spotted her quickly and felt so disappointed. I really, really wanted that bike.

As it happened, we both left the shop at the same time, and we had parked next to each other. I heard her friend talking about the bike and decided to strike up a conversation. She said she really liked it and would be picking it up tonight. I told her that if she changed her mind, I would definitely be interested in buying it. Then, I proceeded to get in my car and fall apart emotionally. All of the sudden I was crying over a bike and I couldn't stop. It was awkward (she was in the car next to me), but I didn't even care at that point. I missed that bike by minutes. I still can't believe it.

My one last idea is to check a few of the REIs around me. They carry Cannondale, but I'm not sure how to check if they have 2009 models in stock. Their website only lists the 2010 models. :(

I'm really trying to stay positive. My current bike still works. It has been "good enough" for me the past two years, so there's no logical reason that it would suddenly not be "good enough" overnight. It is making me stronger to train and race on it. I know that I'll be racing a familiar bike tomorrow.

Also, by missing out on the two bikes today, I avoided making an impulsive decision. I felt so rushed to get over there this afternoon for the CAAD9 7 and didn't honestly have much time to think about it. I still think it was the right decision, but at least now, I'll have a little more time to think about it.

Bike shopping should be fun!!! :) Don't let these experiences get you down :p It's just like anything in life: sometimes things don't work out exactly how you planned but if you are determined, you will find what you need :) (Jager said it best).

Good luck in your search!

[zatar]

Thanks, Ana. I'm a lot less stressed out now that I've made my decision and worrying less about finding the "best deal." :cool:

The lbs (where I tested all the Synapse, Six, and CAAD9) is ordering me a 48cm CAAD9 5 Feminine. I'm planing on swapping the components out so that I can have 105 (from the CAAD9) on my current bike (will be rain bike). I'll then buy the ultegra components from my teammate and put them on the CAAD9, so that I have a nice race bike. I'm really excited. :D

Next week, I might be able to pick up the bike pictured below!

[Ana]

Thanks, Ana. I'm a lot less stressed out now that I've made my decision and worrying less about finding the "best deal." :cool:

The lbs (where I tested all the Synapse, Six, and CAAD9) is ordering me a 48cm CAAD9 5 Feminine. I'm planing on swapping the components out so that I can have 105 (from the CAAD9) on my current bike (will be rain bike). I'll then buy the ultegra components from my teammate and put them on the CAAD9, so that I have a nice race bike. I'm really excited. :D

Next week, I might be able to pick up the bike pictured below!

I am exactly the same way so I empathize: I get caught up in the details (price, timing, etc) and then get myself super stressed out :) I'm trying to learn how to relax (and thus enjoy things) more too :)

I'm so glad you found something that will work for you! Pictures and first ride report!!!