Surly Love

[Catrin]

I just returned home from my LBS where I had a meeting with their specialist in bike builds and he is also their fitter. We determined that if I have him build me a special kit for the Long Haul Trucker that I will only spend about $300 more and have better components than the standard kit - including hand-made wheels, carbon bars and other parts. I am not committed as of yet, but it seems a no-brainer to consider this. His software program crashed on him, so he is going to type up the kit and email it to me. He wasn't happy with his computer when I left...

I really can't go any higher than that additional $300, but if he really can upgrade what he thinks he can while staying within my budget then it really does seem wise to go for it. Nothing is happening before March 19th though :)

[Blueberry]

Congratulations!! Sounds like you have a great plan in the works. What happens March 19?

[Tri Girl]

Saweet!!:D

[bikerHen]

Speaking as one who has spent WAY more than $300. to upgrade just about everything on my LHT, I would say do it! Just don't mess with those bar end shifters. They are perfect just the way they are. :D bikerHen

If you plan to do loaded touring, don't get too fancy with the hand built wheels. You need a high spoke count to carry the extra weight. You also want to stick with common, easy to replace spokes in case you find yourself doing a roadside spoke replacement. :)

[Catrin]

Congratulations!! Sounds like you have a great plan in the works. What happens March 19?

Pay day :) As a special order I need to pay for it up front, of course.

[Catrin]

Speaking as one who has spent WAY more than $300. to upgrade just about everything on my LHT, I would say do it! Just don't mess with those bar end shifters. They are perfect just the way they are. :D bikerHen

The bar end shifters are staying, though they have me a little nervous :) Most of the gear components will be XT outside of the rear cassette, which will be SRAM. He said that for a touring bike, SRAM will be more dependable and last longer than an XT cassette. I don't remember any of the other details, am waiting for the list.

I suspect a lot more COULD be upgraded, but he knows my budget :) I do like the idea of the hand-built wheels though - gotta run back to work now... I just saw the time :eek:

[bikerHen]

You'll love the bar end shifters once you get a feel for them. I just had my whole drivetrain replaced. Sram 11-34 rear cassette, Salsa rings up front. Had the rear derailluer replaced two years ago. It's Shimano XTR. I think at this point the only thing I haven't replaced is the front derailluer. Are you planning to top off your LHT with a nice leather Brooks Saddle? They look really good together. :p bikerHen

[Catrin]

Speaking as one who has spent WAY more than $300. to upgrade just about everything on my LHT, I would say do it! Just don't mess with those bar end shifters. They are perfect just the way they are. :D bikerHen

If you plan to do loaded touring, don't get too fancy with the hand built wheels. You need a high spoke count to carry the extra weight. You also want to stick with common, easy to replace spokes in case you find yourself doing a roadside spoke replacement. :)

The wheels he has in mind are very strong and designed for the kind of riding I will be doing. There will be a high spoke count and he showed me what to do should a spoke break when I am on the road. Hopefully that won't happen :) I won't be doing much in the way of full loaded touring, more of a "go anywhere and everywhere" kind of thing with probable light touring.

[twin]

Congratulations I love mine and I also have spent way more than 300 dollars...lol btw it was by choice I did not need to.

[Catrin]

You'll love the bar end shifters once you get a feel for them. I just had my whole drivetrain replaced. Sram 11-34 rear cassette, Salsa rings up front. Had the rear derailluer replaced two years ago. It's Shimano XTR. I think at this point the only thing I haven't replaced is the front derailluer. Are you planning to top off your LHT with a nice leather Brooks Saddle? They look really good together. :p bikerHen

I think that the rear cassette he is including in the quote is the same Sram 11-34 rear cassette, won't know what the rings/so forth are until I see the full list. I know that he is including a good number of XT parts.

I have already thought about topping it off with a nice Brooks saddle :) For some reason I keep wanting to refer to it as "him" and it isn't even built yet!

[Catrin]

For some reason the idea of the bar end shifters do have me nervous (my trainer wants me to stick with trigger-shifters if possible). I am assuming that I can, basically, just move my hand down the bar until I get to the shifter? I hope that made sense :)

I have to learn how to take my hand off the bars anyway, that is still a problem for me. However, I will have at least 5-6 weeks to practice with my Trek before the LHT will arrive - and it may be longer if any of the parts are on back-order.

All of this is pretty exciting :) I am STILL amazed that he can upgrade as much as he is - including hand-built wheels - and stay within $300 of the original price! I haven't seen his final list/quote yet, so time will tell.

We have decided that the 46cm will be a better choice for me over the 42 - there will just be fractionally less standover room (still about 1.5 inches anyway).

The frame in this size is only available in brown - though hopefully they will have the olive color frame in stock by then. I will have to decide on accents - brown isn't my favorite color... However this is too sweet a bike to let slide over something like that. I love blue and green, surely I can come up with something to mitigate that brown if that is to be my fate...

[OakLeaf]

That's so exciting! :)

[KnottedYet]

The frame in this size is only available in brown - though hopefully they will have the olive color frame in stock by then. I will have to decide on accents - brown isn't my favorite color... However this is too sweet a bike to let slide over something like that. I love blue and green, surely I can come up with something to mitigate that brown if that is to be my fate...

Now I'm really confused. I thought you were getting the LHT? That comes in a dark cream or a blue frame. http://surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/

Not olive nor brown.

The Cross Check comes in brown, and yeah that's not my favorite color. http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/ Though I've seen a few brown CC in town, and they look fine.

Which bike are you having built?

[OakLeaf]

"Beef gravy brown"??? Ewwwwwww. The color would be better if they'd called it something different!

[WindingRoad]

Mmmmmmmmm...beef gravy. That would make me hungry staring down at that. I actually like the brown, it's a lot prettier in person. Has a fleck to it.

[Catrin]

Now I'm really confused. I thought you were getting the LHT? That comes in a dark cream or a blue frame. http://surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/

Not olive nor brown.

The Cross Check comes in brown, and yeah that's not my favorite color. http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/ Though I've seen a few brown CC in town, and they look fine.

Which bike are you having built?

The complete, standard Surly LHT package comes in either blue or a tan (looks brownish to me). Just to order a frame for building up, however, my is is currently only available in an olive green or the same tan/cream you mentioned. That may change by March 18 when I place my order.

I was surprised about the olive as well, and I like the color - it is a very earthy dark green that looks great. I might like that better than the blue for this particular bike. Time will tell what is available in my size when we place the order.

I've attached an image of the "olivine" LHT frame - I can't seem to post an actual image properly.

I followed your link, and the LHT tan is better than the CC brown :)

[Cataboo]

For some reason the idea of the bar end shifters do have me nervous (my trainer wants me to stick with trigger-shifters if possible). I am assuming that I can, basically, just move my hand down the bar until I get to the shifter? I hope that made sense :)
.

You can always powder coat a frame if you don't like the color. You can also dress up brown with some bright accessories - flashy tires, handlebar tape, whatever.

Trigger shifters are going to be hard on a long haul trucker because there's only a few handlebars that you really can use them on... flat bars, flat bars with risers, soma sparrows, and trekking/butterfly bars. All of which have somewhat limited hand positions and you're probably not going to want in the long run for a long tour. You can put the bar end shifters on pauls thumbies like surly pacer showed if you want to have a more trigger shifter like setup.

[Catrin]

You can always powder coat a frame if you don't like the color. You can also dress up brown with some bright accessories - flashy tires, handlebar tape, whatever.

Trigger shifters are going to be hard on a long haul trucker because there's only a few handlebars that you really can use them on... flat bars, flat bars with risers, soma sparrows, and trekking/butterfly bars. All of which have somewhat limited hand positions and you're probably not going to want in the long run for a long tour. You can put the bar end shifters on pauls thumbies like surly pacer showed if you want to have a more trigger shifter like setup.

Cool, thanks for all of the information :) I knew that there was some reason not to head that route but it is nice to see it spelled out. I did ask the guy who is putting my kit together if trigger shifters are an option - but I told him to leave the bar-end shifters in my kit.

Now that I saw the CC brown frame, all of a sudden the tan/cream LHT looks much better :D

[OakLeaf]

Okay, I am really, really, really hesitant to say this, and I extra hate to be the first one to say it after I've let a day go by hoping someone else would. :o

But I just don't think carbon handlebars are a good idea for a non-racer.

If the only bars that really fit you don't come in alloy, well, then, by all means go for it.

But. Not only because you're a new rider, because anyone can tip over. Carbon tends to be fragile, and unlike a frame, in a crash or even a low-speed tip-over, handlebars tend to take the uncushioned brunt of it. Break your handlebars and you may be able to limp the bike home very carefully with one brake, or it may be completely unrideable. Break them on a tour and you're SOL.

JMO. And let me reiterate that I do not believe that crashing or even tipping over is inevitable, and I strongly object to people who say that it is (because I think that puts an idea into people's heads that make them not work as hard to avoid crashing). That's why I hated to be the one to say it. But if you crash or tip over, you want to minimize the damage to your bike as well as your body. I wouldn't have them on my bike, and that's the reason.

[Ered_Lithui]

I personally like the brown CC frame. It's kind of a chocolate peanut butter. Then again, I love brown. I think dark green accents would look really nice on a tan LHT. Regardless of color, it's a good-looking bike. Congrats!

[Cataboo]

Okay, I am really, really, really hesitant to say this, and I extra hate to be the first one to say it after I've let a day go by hoping someone else would. :o

But I just don't think carbon handlebars are a good idea for a non-racer.

If the only bars that really fit you don't come in alloy, well, then, by all means go for it.

But. Not only because you're a new rider, because anyone can tip over. Carbon tends to be fragile, and unlike a frame, in a crash or even a low-speed tip-over, handlebars tend to take the uncushioned brunt of it. Break your handlebars and you may be able to limp the bike home very carefully with one brake, or it may be completely unrideable. Break them on a tour and you're SOL.

JMO. And let me reiterate that I do not believe that crashing or even tipping over is inevitable, and I strongly object to people who say that it is (because I think that puts an idea into people's heads that make them not work as hard to avoid crashing). That's why I hated to be the one to say it. But if you crash or tip over, you want to minimize the damage to your bike as well as your body. I wouldn't have them on my bike, and that's the reason.

I was contemplating saying something... but, I use carbon handlebars on 2 of my bikes and I'm definitely not a racer. However, I don't have them on what's probably the closest thing to my touring rig (my commuter, surly pacer). They make a huge difference in my ability to ride without wrist pain/numbness for longer distances which is something I really don't do with my surly anyways.

My surly has a tendancy to topple over a lot because it hates me and 'cause there's often weight in the panniers that pulls it over.

I haven't really crashed either of the bikes with carbon handlebars on them - one of the bikes is carbon and has carbon wheels, so the handlebars are the least of my worries in a crash for that matter... But, the bikes have toppled over before and I haven't had the handlebars break.

So it's a non-standard choice for a touring bike - but I'm not sure how much actual touring Catrin is planning yet?

[Catrin]

Oak Leaf - thanks for speaking up. I spoke to my LBS on this and we decided to go with aluminim for now. He said that it would have to be a pretty hard hit to damage it, but carbon would break where aluminum would bend. I had not even thought about that - but I do know someone who will look over the final specs for me before I commit myself.

[KnottedYet]

I hesitated to say anything about the carbon bars... but I'm glad Oakleaf brought it up.

(I'm quite a "steel is real" kind of gal, and hesitate to push my bias onto a new rider)

[radicalrye]

+1 on the non carbon handle bars. if you're fully loaded and touring..even if you use the kick stand you'd be surprised how fast a bike can topple over.

i have had issues with that, but my bike doesn't have as long of a wheel base etc. like a LHT is. Those things are amazing touring machines for sure.

Congrats on the new bike!

[eofelis]

My SO and a friend of mine both just got the tan colored LHTs. The color is called Truckaccino. It's quite beautiful! My SO trimmed his bike out in black components and it looks fantasic with the tan color. I was kinda envious. My LHT is the old sage green color.

+1 on avoiding the carbon handlebars!

[Catrin]

My SO and a friend of mine both just got the tan colored LHTs. The color is called Truckaccino. It's quite beautiful! My SO trimmed his bike out in black components and it looks fantasic with the tan color. I was kinda envious. My LHT is the old sage green color.

+1 on avoiding the carbon handlebars!

It is good to hear that the color looks better in person than online - when it comes to the images I like the green better. My fitter (who is also building my bike) and I decided to get the 46cm frame rather than the 42 and right now that is only available in the new Truckaccino color. If this is what I wind up with I will probably trim it in dark green :)


+1 on the non carbon handle bars. if you're fully loaded and touring..even if you use the kick stand you'd be surprised how fast a bike can topple over.


I don't see me doing fully loaded touring this year - I need to gain experience and bike-handling skills before I do that - but all the advice on the bars is appreciated. As I said earlier, the thought hadn't even crossed my mind until it was brought up here. Aluminum bars would still need replacing after a damaging fall/crash - but at least they do bend where carbon breaks.

I won't be getting a kickstand right away - I've noted Surly's strongly worded warning on their site about being careful with how they are attached to the LHT frame. I figure I don't need the kickstand until I put a rack on the bike and start carrying things other than me :)

[Bike Chick]

Catrin,

Glad you've found your bike and it sounds great. How exciting!

[KnottedYet]

I figure I don't need the kickstand until I put a rack on the bike and start carrying things other than me :)

I have a rack and carry quite a lot of things other than myself, and I don't use a kickstand. None of my bikes have kickstands.

One of my bikes fell over its one-legged kickstand in a very un-pretty way. I took it off and will not put one on a bike again.

If you really want a kickstand look into the two-legged ones.

[Catrin]

I have a rack and carry quite a lot of things other than myself, and I don't use a kickstand. None of my bikes have kickstands.

One of my bikes fell over its one-legged kickstand in a very un-pretty way. I took it off and will not put one on a bike again.

If you really want a kickstand look into the two-legged ones.

This is good to know, I DID note that the Surly site was very strong in their recommendation to not use one on the LHT in particular due to the possibility of ruining the frame. Apparently there is a kind that is positioned more to the rear, though of course only useful if you only load on the rear.

I did put one on my 7.6, I have regretted that since but the LBS talked me out of removing it the other day - they just sawed off part of the length. Time will tell if it stays...

[KnottedYet]

Apparently there is a kind that is positioned more to the rear, though of course only useful if you only load on the rear.


A kickstand isn't necessary to load a bike.
The location of the stand isn't really about the load.

A loaded bike is even more likely to topple, and while you are loading it the bike wiggles and is even MORE likely to topple.

Try learning to manage the bike without a kickstand at first. It will give you a feel for the balance points and inertia of the bike, which will help you decide later about kickstands.

[bikerHen]

Here are a couple of ideas for you, when you're ready to start pimping out your ride.

Instead of a kickstand, these are great. I have one and just love it. You definitely need the heavy duty one for touring. http://www.click-stand.com

My sister got a Truckaccino Surly last year. She put a pair of these fenders on it. They look GREAT! http://www.woodysfenders.com/store/
bikerHen

[Catrin]

Thanks for the links - the fenders look great! Once my budget recovers from this purchase, and a new personal training package in April, and needed new cycling clothing...it will be time to spruce up the new bike :)

I have my quote for the new build! It is a little more expensive than I had originally planned - but with handmade wheels, thorn resistant tires, upgraded crank/derailleurs/other stuff I think that it is worth it. So it turned out to be $500 extra before labor and taxes - I think the added value will be worth it. I DO have someone checking out the quote for me who knows a lot more about bike components than I do - I know just enough to be dangerous :)

Thanks for the advice on kickstands and so-forth - that is very good food for thought. KnottedYet, I will follow your advice and hold off on making any decisions about kickstands until I've learned how to handle the bike, including loading it without it. The Surly site got my attention as well, I don't want to risk damaging my lovely steel frame...

[moderncyclista]

I use a rear mount kick stand on my "all steel" Trek 520. Works well under heavy grociery loads, wb coffee schleping, & general hauling. Also, Surly says if you modify their products they don't guarantee them in the PDF instructions of the LHT - but I didn't see mention of kickstands. We had the kickstand convo on here a little while ago. Where's that thread? *searches flinging papers above head*

I've been eyeballing the LHT (for quite awhile) and while I like green (esp. this year's Pacer color) the complete LHT blue is quite striking. Dark brown accents would look rather dapper on that bike. Hmmmm....

Also, carbon bars on a touring bike? Seems a strange recommendation for a LHT. On almost any other type of bike it'd make more sense. If you were getting a CC or Pacer sure, but LHT? Hmm. I'm glad someone piped up about that - it could've been quite the kerfuffle.

Catrin: Hand-built wheels aren't necessary. The stock wheels on the LHT aren't bad Alex rims Shimano XT hubs with DT Swiss spokes 36 h. That is durable, hearty, stuff. I mean yeah, if you need extra performance upgrade em', but that should do for most cross-country tourers. Many people tour on completely stock LHT's, let alone ride around town on em'. The tires WTB Slickasaurus aren't puncture resistant - so yeah, upgrade the tires at least. The WTB Slickasaurus is $19 an extra $20 or so per tire and you can upgrade to puncture resistance. The stock crankset is good for touring, commuting, etc. You shouldn't need to go to SRAM for the crankset. The nice thing about Surly is they spec. their bikes out pretty well. So don't let them talk you into anything you don't "need."

[KnottedYet]

I have my quote for the new build! It is a little more expensive than I had originally planned - but with handmade wheels, thorn resistant tires, upgraded crank/derailleurs/other stuff I think that it is worth it. So it turned out to be $500 extra before labor and taxes - I think the added value will be worth it. I DO have someone checking out the quote for me who knows a lot more about bike components than I do - I know just enough to be dangerous :)

$500 over the cost of a Complete (which is $1,000)
$300-$400 bike build labor
$100 tax
= $1,900 - $2,000

Y'know, one of the fun things starting with stock is that you can upgrade as you learn and as you ride. Plus, at about 1/2 the budget by purchasing stock, you have quite a bit of your $2,000 left for the silly-but-fun personalizing touches... like those beautiful wooden fenders! Some things should be "upgraded" or "customized" immediately; like saddle, bars, and often pedals. Fit and comfort is of primary importance, no quibble there.

You just learned how to ride a bike. Maybe trust the stock selections on the LHT Complete, so that as your riding style develops you can develop your bike as well?

[Catrin]

$500 over the cost of a Complete (which is $1,000)
$300-$400 bike build labor
$100 tax
= $1,900 - $2,000


Actually it isn't that high - before labor/taxes the cost is $1,400 ($320 above the cost of the complete LHT with a MRSP of ~$1,080) with labor and taxes the final cost = $1,640 (still less than the Fargo before taxes - though not by much).

I've a friend looking at the quote to see if it is actually worth the cost - I am not doing ANYTHING before March 18th... Self-enforced waiting period is a good thing - especially when I really want something :) A few of the upgrades in this custom build they are giving to me at a deep discount and wouldn't be available later...so they are worth considering. I appreciate the advice for sure. Of course some of the parts were not changed.

[KnottedYet]

Oh, yeah! Love that self-enforced waiting period! I made myself wait a week and take my Surly CC for a second test ride before I bought her.

That was one heck of a tough week... whew! :eek:

[Catrin]

Oh, yeah! Love that self-enforced waiting period! I made myself wait a week and take my Surly CC for a second test ride before I bought her.

That was one heck of a tough week... whew! :eek:


hehehe, such is the way of things - and I am waiting for 3 weeks :p I know me when I really really want something. The choice isn't for/against the LHT, but between standard/custom - so that requires a longer self-enforced waiting time :D

[Cataboo]

$640 for an upgraded drive train might be worth it - I'm not sure whether handbuilt wheels'll make a difference, but maybe you can ask them to spec stock wheels vs. the built ones. That may cut down the difference.

If you tell us what upgrades there are to the drivetrain/shifters, we could probably tell you whether it's worth it or not... If the upgrades result in a considerably lighter bike, they might definitely be worth it..

Do you need another crank length than stock anyways? If so, that's an upgrade you'd've had to do... Youd have probably had to switch out the handlebars and saddle from stock to match your shoulders, maybe even the stem...

Upgrading bikes if you're doing it by yourself one by one can be not so expensive... however, if you need to have a bike shop do the work, it does add up.

[Catrin]

$640 for an upgraded drive train might be worth it - I'm not sure whether handbuilt wheels'll make a difference, but maybe you can ask them to spec stock wheels vs. the built ones. That may cut down the difference.

If you tell us what upgrades there are to the drivetrain/shifters, we could probably tell you whether it's worth it or not... If the upgrades result in a considerably lighter bike, they might definitely be worth it..

Do you need another crank length than stock anyways? If so, that's an upgrade you'd've had to do... Youd have probably had to switch out the handlebars and saddle from stock to match your shoulders, maybe even the stem...

Upgrading bikes if you're doing it by yourself one by one can be not so expensive... however, if you need to have a bike shop do the work, it does add up.

I have someone checking out the differences between the two specs for me - and I do not at this time have the mechanical skill, space, or tools to do the upgrades myself. The handlebars, stem, and saddle have to be upgraded anyway for fit and/or weight. When I have a better understanding on what is actually ON the list (right not it is a list of parts - some of which I can figure out - some are not) and how they differ from the stock build I will post it here. Thanks for the suggestion!

I've checked with my builder to see what difference the price would be if we used machine-made wheels with XT hubs rather than hand-made wheels. He is going to get back with me after doing some research. Apparently he cannot get the same wheel that Surly uses in the complete build, that is only available with the full Surly package.

As agonizing as all of this is (I want my new bike NOW), this is still a lot of fun :)

[Catrin]

I went to one of our LBS today to check out the Long Haul Trucker in person. Ok, so it was a size 54cm, all I COULD do was to look at it, and try to imagine it much smaller :p but it was fun. It was the tan color, and while I would take that if I've no choice, I do hope that I can get either the blue or sage green,

A beautiful bike is about more than color though, and I was itching to get on it and test it out...take it home and call it mine, LOL. I do think that I will be happy with whichever build I wind up purchasing on March 17th :D

[Cataboo]

I checked to make sure that the front rack that I bought for my surly pacer works today. So, the surly's gonna double for my touring bike until I build up something else at some point.

But the wheels I got for my surly pacer are these ones:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Mavic-A719-700c-36-Hole-Touring-Wheels-Wheelset_W0QQitemZ380210331738QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item58864d405a

XT hubs, 36 spokes, mavic a719 rim.

That seller fairly frequently has them on ebay, and sometimes has them on auction - I waited for auctions & lucked out and got one set for about $90 shipped after I damaged the rims on the first set I bought dropping down into a parallel grate in the road - I think that set was like $160 shipped in auction.

I don't know if the long haul trucker in your size has 26 inch wheels or 700c.

But depending on what they're quoting for handbuilt wheels vs stock wheels, that seller might be an option.

[Catrin]

I don't know if the long haul trucker in your size has 26 inch wheels or 700c.

But depending on what they're quoting for handbuilt wheels vs stock wheels, that seller might be an option.

Thanks for the link - the two small LHT sizes takes 26-inch wheels.

Another option for me might be to just take the complete Surly build and just upgrade bars and saddle for now. That would still be more than the $1004 + tax (spring sale), but rather less than the +$1,600 :) Thankfully there is time to consider all of my options

Does anyone know the difference between these two cranksets?

Andel, Forged arms, Silver. Aluminum rings, 110mm BCD, 48-36-26t (Surly build)
and
Shimano Sora FC3403 50-39-30t 9-Speed 170mm 2-Piece Crankset (custom build)

Also

Front Derailleur Shimano Tiagra, FD-4403 triple (Surly build)
and
Tiagra FD4503 9spd Trpl 31.8/28.6mm Front Der (custom build)

[OakLeaf]

Can you use 170 mm cranks, or are you going to have to swap them out for shorter ones regardless? What does your fitter say about that?

[Catrin]

Can you use 170 mm cranks, or are you going to have to swap them out for shorter ones regardless? What does your fitter say about that?

The 170mm cranks listed were my fitters suggestion - the 110mm is Surly stock. He has done a body fit on me for my Trek, so he has all of that information, I am long-legged with a short torso.

[KnottedYet]

The 170mm cranks listed were my fitters suggestion - the 110mm is Surly stock. He has done a body fit on me for my Trek, so he has all of that information, I am long-legged with a short torso.

BCD is not the length of the crank arms.

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

-Knot: is a fitter, isn't a wrench.

(I'm so serious. What is a upgrade for one person, is a P.O.S. for another. You really need to ride a whole bunch before you know what is an upgrade FOR YOU. Buy stock. Surly is good stuff. It is designed deliberately to be compatible with a gazillion options. You and the bike will grow together. Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

[OakLeaf]

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

[Catrin]

Two different things. 170 on the Sora is the crankarm length. 110 on the Andel is bolt center distance - the mounting size of your chainrings. You didn't specify how long the Andel cranks are.

All the info I have on the Andel is from the Surly site, I will see what I can find out... Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

I do appreciate the advice and dose of reality - that is why I brought it here in the first place. I KNOW me when I really want something - which is another reason for the enforced waiting period... It might cost more later to upgrade some of the components, but there is also the point that I would better understand what I am doing. Perhaps by then I would be able to do at least some of the work...

Enforced waiting periods are good :D

At this point I am strongly leaning to the Complete LHT with upgraded bars/saddle. That leaves more money for accessories and bike clothes :)

[eofelis]

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

Yeah, what she said.

The wheels and the drive train on the complete will be fine for quite a while.
Ride lots now. Upgrade later.

[KnottedYet]

The crank length on the 46 cm Complete LHT is 165mm.

Your fitter says you'd be better off with a 170mm. (which is typical for a woman. We have longer femurs than men, and so need longer crank arms than men of similar size to achieve correct KOPS)

HOWEVER: 5mm is pretty damm small, and well within the realm of cleat positioning for cleated pedals (aka "clipless") or foot positioning for platform pedals, or even shifting the saddle for long-armed riders.

Your fitter is pissing me off. If he can't cope with 5mm difference with a new rider who doesn't yet know her preferences, and within a newbie budget; then I want his job.

ETA: I'm 5'8", with 33 inch inseams. My Surly CC 52cm has 170mm cranks, stock. I'm happiest with 175mm cranks with my cleated bike (Waterford). I have platform pedals on my CC so naturally move my feet to the optimal position for my power output relative to KOPS. No problem. I truly believe you would have no problem with 165mm cranks.

[moderncyclista]

BCD is not the length of the crank arms.

My opinion, which is worth nothing: buy the Complete. Change the saddle and bars (and get the rebate from "selling back" the bars and saddle the bike came with). Ride lots.

My dose of cruel reality, also worth nothing: you don't have much experience. You are only just learning to ride a bike. Trust Surly to provide a good stock set up. Save your money. Don't trust your fitter farther than you can throw him. Ride lots. Customize after.

-Knot: is a fitter, isn't a wrench.

(I'm so serious. What is a upgrade for one person, is a P.O.S. for another. You really need to ride a whole bunch before you know what is an upgrade FOR YOU. Buy stock. Surly is good stuff. It is designed deliberately to be compatible with a gazillion options. You and the bike will grow together. Trust all the Surly mavens on this site. We wouldn't steer you wrong. We believe in these bikes and we ride these bikes.)

To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly. :D

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles. :cool:

[Catrin]

To KnottedYet:
Chica. Thank you for expressing my feelings exactly. :D

To Caitrin: the stock gearing is better for general riding and commuting. The "special build" gearing is higher with bigger chain rings. Good for speed and training, but not quite as good if your a beginning rider. You'd be happier, in my opinion going with the "stock LHT" build and upgrading bars (shouldn't be too expensive) and saddle (brooks B-17 is a great choice). Be careful with crank arm length as the LHT has a lower bottom bracket (like touring bikes do) you don't want your crank arms to be too long on a smaller frame.

Peace, Love, & Bicycles. :cool:

Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be :)

[Cataboo]

If he's putting you on sora cranks & also a tiagra front derailleur... just go with the stock long haul trucker. The custom build doesn't seem to be upgrading your components much (or at all...)

As for crank length - I'd say use the 165 mm cranks. You'll be fine. Shorter cranks are a bit easier to spin, harder to mash with. And they're gentler on your knees.

I'm 5'1 and have changed all my bikes to 165 mm. My knees feel 170 cranks a bit more.

[Blueberry]

Good information on the custom build gearing. I had already started leaning in this direction before KnottedYet spoke up, and both of you have only confirmed what I was thinking. I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.

I've sent a request to my fitter/builder for a quote on the Complete blue LHT with upgraded bars/saddle - though I have an idea what that should be :)


An added bonus is you get the color you want:) These ladies are wise - listen to them:)

[KnottedYet]

I cannot find any information on the crank arm length on the Andel crankset - even on the Andel website - but that is the stock Surly part so there will be no problem from that direction.


It's listed on the Surly LHT page. 165 mm for the 46cm bike. Andel makes several sizes. All component brands make several sizes. The size chosen by Surly for the 46cm LHT is 165mm.

[Catrin]

An added bonus is you get the color you want:) These ladies are wise - listen to them:)

Yes, a blue LHT is in my future - I can see it now :D When I ask advice from people who know a lot more about something than I do - I do listen :)

[KnottedYet]

I do like the bars he selected. I found one here - though will have to get used to this style and the bar-end shifters :)

http://www.bikeman.com/HB9776.html



<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

[Catrin]

<gentle sigh>
Please tell me he didn't recommend the 40cm bars you linked.
The LHT already comes with 40cm bars. Why pay more? If this is the first pair of drops you've ridden, why change?

In all likelihood, you need narrower bars anyway. Women tend to have narrower shoulders than men of similar size.

Buy the stock. If it seems too wide (pain in between the shoulders and up into neck) then go to an LBS and have someone measure you for bar width. Buy a pair of Salsa Poco or Short and Shallow, sell back the stock, and ride on!

(I'm riding 38cm bars, and I'm 5'8" with wide shoulders. Wide shoulders. It's hard to find women's shirts that fit.)

Ummmm...what I linked to are the bars he recommended :o
I am glad that I brought this here...

[KnottedYet]

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

[Catrin]

Well, don't base your decisions on my ranting and raving. I'm quite opinionated.

But I also specialize in women's bike fits, I get paid to be opinionated! :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should just buy the complete, and get the Brooks B17 saddle of your dreams from www.wallbike.com If you decide the B17 doesn't suit you within 6 months of purchase, you can send it back for full refund. Will your LBS give you a full refund within 6 months?

Ride, ride, ride. That's the best way to learn what you need most.

LOL, as I said, I was already starting to lean this direction before you spoke up, including the wallbike.com purchase for the saddle. Certainly no LBS will give me a 6-month refund period. I will pay $30 more for the saddle this way - but the refund period is attractive.

Obviously it is in the fitter/builders best interest to sell me a custom build, whether he can provide a true upgrade in the budget given or not... It is in my best interest to learn what I can, and to get advice where I can :D

[OakLeaf]

OTOH... I'm probably Catrin's same size or maybe a little bigger, and I absolutely need crankarms no longer than 165 mm (can't even ride 167.5) and handlebars no narrower than 40 cm...

Everyone's different.

But it does sound like the stock bike would be fine for you...

[KnottedYet]

Yeah, I just don't see the point of switching one pair of 40cm for another pair of 40cm; especially when it's the first pair of drops someone has ever ridden.

Riding usually tells you best of all what you need. If stock is acceptable, I'd go with that for starters.

[Catrin]

Yeah, I just don't see the point of switching one pair of 40cm for another pair of 40cm; especially when it's the first pair of drops someone has ever ridden.

Riding usually tells you best of all what you need. If stock is acceptable, I'd go with that for starters.

I don't think he looked at the complete build specs that closely and did not see that the bike comes with compact 40cm bars for the three smallest sizes. The same thing happened with his spec for the brake levers, he included the standard size, not the compact size that Surly includes for the two smallest sizes. This is the same individual who first thought the LHT would not fit me - but I understand that he was very busy that day and just looked at something incorrectly.

I am also checking with another LBS in town - they are newer and may be willing to give me a lower price on the complete build if they have a spring sale on 2010 models. I was surprised to note that their fitting fee ($200), is good for the life of the bike - so if you use their professional fitting services and problems develop later, or changes are needed due to upgrades/whatever, there is no additional charge. For a small store that specializes in mountain biking, they have two fitters, one is female. This is the same store I visited yesterday to see the LHT.

All of this is certainly a learning experience! Ok, back to drooling over the beautiful new bikes in the new edition of Bicycling :p
-----------------
New information - I just spoke with that other LBS, and while their March sale is just on 2009 models that are left, they include the full lifetime of the bike $200 professional fitting (for free) in with the sale of each bike. This other store is looking better all of the time... The LBS I have dealt with throws in a quick basic fitting for free, if you get it within 4 weeks of purchase.

[canonsue]

I have a 42cm Truckaccino LHT. I love the color. The other modifications that I have done is fenders, Books Flyer saddle, Salsa adjustable seat post, cycle computer, Surly Nice back rack and new tires. (I did not like the original tires on dirt and the original seat post was very difficult to adjust for Books saddle.)

-Sue

[bikerHen]

I'm coming into the bar discussion a little late, took the weekend off to go on a bike ride. :rolleyes:

My sister bought a Complete LHT two summers ago and the bars that were stock on hers were totally different than my stock bar and were in my opinion, my sisters opinion and the bike shops opinion ( Free Range) not good bars. The only thing my sister changed at purchase was the seat and bars. Of course she has done some cosmetic pimping in the two years since! :p

In regards to the other changes, I put close to 7000 miles on my LHT before all the upgrades. The stock components may not be top of the line, but they will last you a good long while. bikerHen

[Catrin]

bikerHen - congrats on being able to go riding this weekend :D Do you remember what bars came on hers? I am wondering if Surly has since changed that - my size takes smaller bars than what comes on most of the LHT - just the compact size of the same model.

I AM trying to find out what the weight of the 42 and 46 cm bikes are - my car rack sits pretty high on my Lancer and am trying to figure out if I need to do extra strength training to hoist the LHT on it :p

[KnottedYet]

If you can lift your hybrid onto the rack, you'll be able to lift your LHT.

My steel Surly is definitely lighter than my aluminum hybrid.

ETA: the LHT frame weighs around five pounds. What you put ON the frame has more to do with the weight.

[Catrin]

If you can lift your hybrid onto the rack, you'll be able to lift your LHT.

My steel Surly is definitely lighter than my aluminum hybrid.

Cool, that is good to know - I think my 7.6 is something like 24 pounds? I had just assumed that the steel bike would be heavier.

Has anyone with an LHT tried the stock saddle? Though I must admit that the one I saw on the 56cm frame didn't look comfortable at all...

[Tiddle]

I've only tried the stock saddle in a short test ride, so can't really comment.

However I have read on oodles of Surly forum posts that they are pretty ordinary - its like they put a really basic saddle on with the knowledge that everyone is going to switch it out for their preferred saddle. Being built for long hauls, saddle comfort is paramount!

[Catrin]

I've only tried the stock saddle in a short test ride, so can't really comment.

However I have read on oodles of Surly forum posts that they are pretty ordinary - its like they put a really basic saddle on with the knowledge that everyone is going to switch it out for their preferred saddle. Being built for long hauls, saddle comfort is paramount!

I never even tried the stock saddle - before it left the shop the first time it was sporting a nice Brooks B-17 saddle.

Regarding the weight question I asked earlier in this thread some time ago - my LHT is noticeably lighter than my aluminum with carbon fork Trek 7.6 FX wsd bike. That was a surprise!

[Tiddle]

Lighter than a trek FX ....YAY that's good news

I've just ordered a Cross Check to replace my trek 7.3 FX, relieved to hear it will be a bit lighter. (Might start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one)

I talked DH out of buying a roof rack cause I didn't think I'd be able to lift the steel that high. Have you tried lifting it up onto the rack yet, or above your head?

[Catrin]

Lighter than a trek FX ....YAY that's good news

I've just ordered a Cross Check to replace my trek 7.3 FX, relieved to hear it will be a bit lighter. (Might start a new thread on this so I don't hijack this one)

I talked DH out of buying a roof rack cause I didn't think I'd be able to lift the steel that high. Have you tried lifting it up onto the rack yet, or above your head?

If you look at my photo here of my "matching" car and bike, you will note that the trunk is quite high - at least for someone who is 5'3 in her stocking feet:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=37052&page=3 and scroll down the page.

My Trek 7.6 is quite the chore to get it up on the rack, and it isn't just due to the sloping top tube, the weight plays a role as well. My all-steel Surly Long Haul Trucker is quite noticeably lighter and takes much less effort to get it on my rack. That doesn't mean that the Trek weighs 30 pounds or anything, I think it is in the low-20 pound range.

The LHT LOOKS smaller than the Trek, unless they are standing side by side - they are close to the same length and it is only the different geometry and the smaller wheels of the Surly that makes it look smaller. It really isn't though, outside of the 26-inch wheels. Eventually I will be adding fenders and racks to the LHT (the fenders will come in a couple of weeks) and it will be interesting to see what that does to the weight.

[Tiddle]

My Trek 7.6 is quite the chore to get it up on the rack, and it isn't just due to the sloping top tube, the weight plays a role as well.



I ended up getting a bolt on top / cross bar to mount my Trek on the rack because of its sloping TT (and it saves the nice paint work too!)

Thanks for the link. Your car and LHT were meant to be together!

[Catrin]

I ended up getting a bolt on top / cross bar to mount my Trek on the rack because of its sloping TT (and it saves the nice paint work too!)

Thanks for the link. Your car and LHT were meant to be together!

I think so too!

I got the cross-bar that clamps on my bike made by Saris and it actually doesn't make it much easier - I still have to struggle to get one side of the bike on the rack because of that TT - there just isn't much room between the cross-bar and the TT.

What size is your Trek? I wonder if this is because mine is so small - it is the smallest 7.6 they make.