What would you do?

[Selkie]

A male coworker of mine insists on making comments about the fact that I did not take my DH's surname when we married. The first few times this coworker (let's call him Dino, as in the Dinosaur) did it, I very clearly and emphatically told him that his comments were inappropriate and offensive. That seemed to keep him in line for a few months. Unfortunately, yesterday, Dino did it again. In fact, he actually said that he mentioned it to someone else, a lady who used to work for my DH (DH and I work at the same fed'l agency but in different parts of it). I just ignored his comment, knowing that he has issues with females and let's face it, he's a bit of an a-hole.

Of course, I started stewing over it a bit. Dino is in his 50s, twice divorced, and still rants about how his "rotten &^%$ witch" of a second wife "destroyed" his life (they've been divorced for years). He's currently in an emotionally abusive relationship--she's the abuser---and tells everyone all the details about his miserable situation but won't do anything to get out of/improve that situation. To make it worse, he makes inappropriate comments at times about females ---sexual stuff---when telling stories to "entertain" or impress people. Dino likes people to know that he reads/views porn too. He's someone who's stalled in his career and very angry/bitter about how things have ended up in every aspect of his life. I think you're getting the picture.

Dino is a big extrovert and people seem to like him. That makes it difficult for me to "report" him because I'm afraid that my boss will think that I'm overly-sensitive. In similar situations over the years, I've heard inappropriate comments explained away by "well, that's just so-and-so, you know he's a big goof," etc.

I really want to take the high road here and not cause any waves. I thought I'd give him one more chance and if he mentions my surname again, warn him that I'm going to EEO if he does it again. I know that if I do this, he will be telling EVERYONE about it and make me out to be a jerk.

How would YOU handle it?

By the way, my boss is a female, around my age, and is wonderful. She's under a lot of pressure now so I don't want to add to it. In addition, she likes Dino.

[OakLeaf]

Rather than going directly to your boss, does your company have an EEO officer or a HR department you could go to?


makes inappropriate comments at times about females ---sexual stuff---when telling stories to "entertain" or impress people. Dino likes people to know that he reads/views porn too.

That's the stuff that unquestionably makes a hostile work environment based on sex. The stuff about your last name is in there too, and I totally get how offensive it is to you (having been through some similar things before... decades ago :eek:); but the expressly sexual stuff is what an EEO officer will definitely have heard before and have protocols about.

I can wish that you'd be comfortable reporting the guy for your own sake, but since you're not, are there other women at your workplace who've heard his comments? Do it for them. You could say to your boss (or to your EEO officer) "the company's going to get sued if this isn't taken care of." And it would be the truth. If your boss doesn't straighten the guy up, go to her boss.

[Crankin]

I totally agree with Oakleaf.
Although, in reality, I might tell him to shut the f up (and then I would get fired).

[Maxxxie]

The next time he says anything, I'd just say "Didn't we already discuss this? Did you go to a special school or something?"

But that's just me - antagonistic. Another one I've found that works is to listen carefully to everything they have to say, wait for them to finish, then say "Hmm.", and walk away.

Report him to whomever you feel is appropriate. There's a fine line between being a jerk and being a liability to the company. It seems he probably falls into the first category. Though the EEO people might take it seriously, he's unlikely to change, and the reality is that it might make you a target for his future rants about women etc.

I don't want to discourage you from reporting him if that's what you feel you need to do. But I also don't want to give you the idea that reporting him will necessarily improve the situation. It could make it worse, or it could do nothing at all (which would add to your frustration).

I wouldn't bother arcing up at him. He probably enjoys getting a rise out of you. Use your energy on more constructive things.

Edit: Upon re-read, I kind of glossed over the "sexual stuff" part of your original post. That stuff is definitely one the EEO people will lap up, no question. I once had occasion to report a guy (a contractor) for inappropriate behaviour. I needed him to see something on my computer screen, but didn't have a spare chair. So I asked him if he'd mind kind of squatting down/kneeling at my desk just to see what was on the screen. In hindsight, and out of context, I know how that sounds, but trust me, it was in no way an invitation for his response: "Oh, I love getting down on my knees in front of a woman". :eek: I spoke to his boss afterwards and he was "uninvited" from our project.

Max

[Becky]

My response would probably be along the same lines as Crankin's :D

I just sat through my "Respectful Workplace Behavior" refresher training last week. One of the things that they stressed was that your supervisor is obligated to follow up on any complaints, regardless of their personal feelings, and failure to do so could land them in a whole mess of trouble. Don't hesitate to report this- if he's doing it to you, he's doing it to others as well.

I might keep a log of the incidents, just to help demonstrate the severity of the issue. This doesn't sound like a one-time thing. If your supervisor blows you off, go to HR/EEO. I don't know about your agency, but mine is absolutely paranoid about this kind of stuff, almost to a fault, and would definitely take it seriously.

Long story short: you've previously told him to knock it off, he has not complied, and he doesn't deserve a second (or third, or fifth) chance.

Good luck!

[ny biker]

My employer requires us to take courses in sexual harrassment and this guy is clearly crossing the line. If he worked for us I could get him fired easily.

What if you talk to your boss about it, not to lodge a formal complaint but to ask her what can be done about his behavior.

Also, I think there are one or two live online chats on washingtonpost.com that focus on working for the federal government. That would be an anonymous way to ask for advice specifically for your situation.

[SheFly]

I agree with what others have said here. If you are uncomfortable going to your boss, go to HR. In my company, his behaviour is in violation of our ethics, and he would be terminated.

SheFly

[kermit]

I work in a mostly male unit and I agree with Maxxxie, you've got to give it right back to him, tactfully! He is obviously intimidated by you and his failed attempts at relationships with females are represented by you and your independence. That just pisses him off to see another independent woman that he can't control. He has found a topic that he's knows is getting to you so he keeps jabbing. When the time is right, jab back. There is a fine line between joking around and harassment, let him know he is crossing it. If that doesn't work, get your boss involved. It is after all her responsibility to supervise. Some people just need to be on a leash! Good luck!

[Aggie_Ama]

My maiden name was really long and German. Some guy once said to me about a former co-worker "she must not be committed to her husband if she can't respect him enough to take his name". My retort? "I only took my husband's because it was shorter and easier to pronounce". He looked dumbfounded at my flippant attitude towards taking his name. :p That is not why I changed my name but it is my snotty reply. I also tell people "my husband is a bit of a caveman and wouldn't take mine", also not true but it riles them up.

[copperlegend]

Anything that makes you uncomfortable in the workplace is harassment. My company has a program you can use to report complaints etc anonymously. I'm sorry you have to deal with this guy. He's clearly a neanderthal.

I am the only female in a department full of guys. They know what is crossing the line, and they would never go as far as that guy.

[Ered_Lithui]

I bet you're not the only one who thinks he's a bit of a jerk. That sort of behavior would make me extremely uncomfortable. Even if you decide not to act just yet, documenting his behavior from now on would be very helpful if he crosses the line again or if someone else wants to bring it to highers-up.

The name issue, while probably least likely to give you any traction with the boss, is what makes me most sad. I'm in my twenties and, while I can understand the convenience argument, would not consider changing my name for a hypothetical life partner. If someone were to suggest I needed to do so purely because I was female, I would be very, very offended. It's essentially saying that a key part of my sense of identity counts for nothing against the expectation of upholding an obsolete societal norm. Most of my married female friends and family members have changed their names, which is fine for them. But it's not for me, and knowing that it's one of the pillars supporting Dino's twisted and fragile egocentric worldview is one of the reasons why.

[ny biker]

My maiden name was really long and German. Some guy once said to me about a former co-worker "she must not be committed to her husband if she can't respect him enough to take his name". My retort? "I only took my husband's because it was shorter and easier to pronounce". He looked dumbfounded at my flippant attitude towards taking his name. :p That is not why I changed my name but it is my snotty reply. I also tell people "my husband is a bit of a caveman and wouldn't take mine", also not true but it riles them up.

I think it's nobody's business why you change your name or not. If someone makes an obnoxious comment, just say "wow" and walk away.

[SadieKate]

I think my response would be "Isn't is great? I have an equal opportunity to use my own name and you have an equal opportunity to be a jerk?"

[ACG]

Like everyone else has said, go to the EEO Office. Or maybe there is a complaint hotline you can call.

This is 100% unacceptable.

[smilingcat]

DON'T MAKE SARCASTIC REMARK! As you said, take the high road.

But do send a typed anonymous letter since I can see that you are uncomfortable. And write in third person.

What he is doing IS harassment. I also worry about his behavior toward women. Two bad divorce and hasn't gotten over, a third marriage that's breaking him... loves porn and tells others about it. Not good. He needs counselling. And the company is on the hook for his behavior. Why aren't they taking action?

If it's really bothering you and you can't deal with it, by all means write a letter and send it to HR.

just my 2cents.

[Biciclista]

call the authorities. How many people will he do this to if you don't stop him?

what a jerk. at my company we have an ethics hotline.. i hope you have some good options too.

[GLC1968]

Being perfectly honest, I think it depends on your work situation. (I'm sure I'm about to piss off a lot of TE members here...)

If you work in a group, department or office where it is very much a 'guys club' where everyone is kind of like him, then honestly, unless it becomes highly disruptive/abusive, I wouldn't report it. My reasoning is this - it's not going to get you anywhere and it'll likely make it worse. My first engineering job out of school was with a DoD contractor. I worked with 20 other guys, most of whom were over 50 and retired Navy. They called me 'sweetheart', 'honey' and they didn't bother to reign in their commentary about inappropriate stuff when I was around. They didn't outwardly disrepsect my abilities or my responsibilities - it just clearly would have been viewed as an uncomfortable situation for most women.

I also knew that there was NO WAY that reporting it was going to get me anywhere. My company would have been obligated to do something about it, and that something would likely have just escalated the problem. I handled it by tossing it right back at them. I 'became' one of the boys, so to speak. When they realized that they were no longer getting a rise out of me, it all stopped. They started calling me by my name and while the inappropriate stories didn't completely stop, they did try to tone it down in my presence. Of course, my situation was a little different because I don't think that at any time, any of these guys would have felt threatened by me. They may not have liked my presense, but none of them would ever dream that I might one day have their jobs. That kind of made it a little easier for me.

Now, if your work group is a mixed bag of people (men, women, young, old), and he's really the only offender, then yeah, I would say something. As others have said, it's possible that he's making other people uncomfortable too. And if you have a good relationship with your boss, I agree with whomever suggested that maybe you should ask her for advice prior to actually reporting him. She may have helpful advice or insight for you.

Good luck with it - it sounds like a tough situation all around!

[channlluv]

I think my response would be "Isn't is great? I have an equal opportunity to use my own name and you have an equal opportunity to be a jerk?"

Okay, now that one's funny.


I kept my maiden name when I married because I already had a Masters and several publishing credits in that name. I answer to Mrs. DH, though, too, when we're in his family's crowd of folks.

The only challenge has been that my daughter's last name is not the same as mine, so we get an extra step of questioning at airport security, but that's the only time anyone has ever stopped and asked based on the difference in names.

Roxy

[OakLeaf]

I answer to Mrs. DH, though, too, when we're in his family's crowd of folks.

And DH answers to (or identifies himself as) "Mr. Myname" when he's talking with a company that the account is in my name or a service person I've called. :)

[Crankin]

You know, I find it hilarious that the thing that pisses this guy off is the fact that you didn't change your name. It's not really funny, but I've heard stories about almost all of the other inappropriate behaviors that you described, but never this one. Seriously, he sounds unstable. Given the fact that he is living in an abusive situation (think of a woman in this situation), and generally hates women to begin with because of his past, I would think HR might take a wee interest in him. I feel like we might be reading about him on the news.

GLC, I didn't take offense at what you did. I might have done the same thing in that situation. I have only worked in female dominant workplaces, so I don't have a lot of experience with this. The one high school I worked in that had a more equal gender ratio was full of men of a certain religious persuasion that loved to talk about how they "protected" their wives from all things in the big, bad world. Since I was younger and didn't really give a crap, I always said stuff back to them. It wasn't harassment, but it was offensive to me. I'm pretty sure they said this stuff because I was the young teacher who came back to work 6 weeks after having a baby and bragged about how my DH had been a "stay at home dad" the year before I started working there.

[kermit]

I guess I'm "old school" but I'd ask this guy "hey, you got a minute" and give him the straight poop. Look him in the eye and tell him to knock it off. If that doesn't work, your supervisor is the next step. Then when she asks if you talked to him, you can tell her exactly what was said. I would even document the conversation and his response. There's nothing better than a memo up the chain. He's an insecure little weeny and the only thing that makes him feel like a man is picking on others. Jerk!

[Cataboo]

I'd probably just pretend it didn't bother me for the most part, I'm sure your colleagues think he's an idiot for bringing it up. And if he said it directly to me again, I'd make sure there were other witnesses around and smile sweetly and ask if your refusal to take your husbands last name is a sore subject for him, because of all the women who have declined to take his last name or changed their minds after doing so?

If it backfires and gets people laughing at him instead of contemplating your last name, he'll find something or someone else to go on about.

[ny biker]

Call me crazy but I think two keys words in the OP are "federal agency."

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm

http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/fed_employees/complaint_overview.cfm

Can you go to EEO just to ask what your options are and ask them for guidance on how to handle the situation?

[malkin]

Make all your wise cracks here because we'll appreciate them!

And file a sexual harrassment complaint.

[WindingRoad]

I wouldn't even bring that up to another female coworker. I can't believe he thinks it is OK to pry into your personal life. I think I would just tell him that unless he has questions pertaining to work not bother you with personal questions because it isn't work related. It may seem blunt but obviously he's not the brightest so maybe you just need to spell it out in non condescending terms but be firm.

[marni]

going through your boss and then HR are both good. I would also suggest letting him go through his rant without reacting, then looking strraight at him and saying something like "and your point is?"

I hope it resolves itself soon.

marni ( who never had a middle name until I got married37 years ago. My last name is now hyphenated as is common in the netherlands and germany so I sign my name as Marni Josephson-Harang (josephson is my maiden name)

[Zen]

Call me crazy but I think two keys words in the OP are "federal agency."



Yup.

This type of behavior cannot be ignored.
As Crankin said, I think the man is unstable.
Keep a detailed account of all his offensive behavior. And good luck.

[Becky]

GLC, you first gig sounds a lot like my job now. No offense at all!

I work with a group of very professional office staff, and a bunch of rough-and-tumble field staff and contractors. IMO, it's a case of playing to your audience. When the field guys (of which I am one, depending on the day) have gotten out of line, I've told them to knock it off, and that's usually the end of it. Many of the contractors are old enough to be my father, so I let a lot of the "honey" and "kid" stuff ride 'cuz it's meant all in good fun, even admiration.

What differentiates Mickchick's situation IMO is that she's told this guy to cut it out and he hasn't. He's blown his last chance.

[Selkie]

Thanks, everyone, for the different points of view and excellent advice.

I'm no shrinking violet and have told Dino directly--twice--that it's inappropriate for him to make comments about my not taking DH's surname. He doesn't like confident women, at least if that woman is over forty or not pleasing to his eye. In addition, I think he's resentful because I'm higher graded than he (i.e., I make more than he does---he's the type that figures out everyone else's grade & then whines that he'll never get promoted!) and I'm smarter, more hard working, etc.

My situation is akin to what GLC described. Having been a manager/supervisor, I know the laws and regulations. In the past, I have reported this sort of thing and trust me, one get a label for not turning a blind eye to jerks like this. You get labeled "overly sensitive," lacking a sense of humor, and not being able to get along well w/others. We've all had mandatory EEO training and there's a zero tolerance policy. However, the reality is that the personal/professional toll it takes on the person who is a victim and/or reports it is simply too high.

I don't think reporting it will do any good. It will do nothing but add to my boss's stress and Dino will wiggle out of it, turn it back on me. I've seen him in action--nothing is his fault--and he gets away with using his personal problems to avoid things and face responsibility. The guy is unstable and I suggested that he see a therapist about his inability to let go of his anger toward his ex (he ignored that one because he thrives on being a "victim"). I'm not afraid of him, however, because he's really a coward. That's why he has to say stupid, thoughtless things.

I think I'm going to try Maxxie's suggestion of listening to him blather, saying "hmmmmm," then walking away. I'm also not initiating any non-work related conversations with him (he's one of those social butterflies who likes to spend 80% of the day chattering---I mean gossiping). I also intend to be vocal about the inappropriateness of his "stories" when the situation arises---I've done this in a past situation with a fellow coworker who was a perv---I told him--in my "elitist snob tone" that I use in situations like this--that he was "adolescent," to which another male (mature, non-perv) laughed heartily.

[tzvia]

If you don't think reporting it will do any good, then your company has issues and needs to be reported. Harassment on the job should not be tolerated. Where I work we regularly have to take mandatory harassment training. I get it twice as my company contracts IT services to another. I have to take ours and theirs as I work on-site... and have access to our HR and Legal if needed. We are not dealing with some company's feel-good internal worthless drivel, but state and federal law, as you well know. The company has to comply and has to take your report seriously. They are responsible for following all laws and must investigate all reported incidents. You have legal recourse if they do not. Yes I know you know all this, and I am sure your employer knows as well. They need to follow it.

A co-worker of mine many years ago at a previous job was harassed by a much larger male co-worker who actually threatened physical harm to her verbally. The owner of the company (family owned retail business) basically told her 'it's only talk and he is the best salesperson so go away and have a nice day.' The harassment had many witnesses including myself, and she felt she was in physical danger from this man, so she quit out of fear and sued the company and yes they were legally responsible. They ended up firing the man but it was a bit too late to save themselves from legal action.

[Selkie]

If I reported it, they would investigate. They are exceptionally good at trying to quash these things and management at the highest level is extremely dedicated to EEO issues.

Unfortunately, at the working level, it's still seen as not being able to get along or being too sensitive. I also wouldn't put it past him to lie about it. I am going to start documenting things, in addition to the course of action I described above. If my continued attempts have no impact or make him act out more, I will go to my supervisor. This person is a negative influence in the work environment on just about every level, so this is one factor of several issues related to him.

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend, Tzvia. I'm glad she was able to sue.

[NbyNW]

I think it's good that you're documenting things, even if you don't feel that this is the time to elevate the situation to a management concern.

I have been a fly on the wall listening to DH's management challenges. In one case they were getting ready to let someone go for poor performance and other problems, and it came out that this person had behaved inappropriately towards some of the women in the office, but they had not filed reports. DH had to really convince them that it was important that they file the reports, that it was not "making trouble." Having those reports on file, even if they came months after the fact, made it impossible for the guy to slap back at the company with a wrongful termination suit.

[Selkie]

My boss likes him and he's add some limited value (likes to pick and choose his tasks, and avoid the difficult work--I have gotten stuck doing a lot of things that should have been assigned to him). Our office is new and our boss has been very distracted & busy setting things up, so she really hasn't been able to "manage" us. That said, I think she's starting to figure him out. With any luck, he'll decide that he's not being treat fairly and leave (he's always threatening to do so...).

[Selkie]

UPDATE: Well, Dino the Dinosaur did it again, this Thursday. He referred to me as "Mrs. DH'sSurname" in front of a coworker (the three of us were talking about the how hot it was in the office). I told him again, NOT to call me that, said that it was going to "get hotter" in the office if he didn't stop it, and walked away. Yesterday, I finally talked to my boss about it, and she said she's going to talk to him on Monday--he was out yesterday. If he does it again, she wants to know. Apparently, he's already been counseled for his inappropriate comments, which he's attributed to "humor." This guy has pet names for people whom he doesn't like--he calls one person "Herpes" and another "Condom." I suspect someone complained to her about that. I'm glad I told her because now she will realize that this is more than just a matter of Dino having a different sense of humor and that he's actually trying to put down others. I told her that he kept doing it, despite my asking him not to, and that was why I felt she needed to know. I expect that he will react in his typical passive-aggressive fashion but I will ignore it. I also suspect that he has been calling me "Mrs. DH'sSurname" behind my back to anyone whom he talks at (it's likely his pet name for me).

[Maxxxie]

Mickchick, I'm so pleased to hear that you brought him to your boss' attention. Hopefully he'll pull his head in!

Max

[Cataboo]

Kind of a related aside, my brother in law seems to have gotten screwed when an HR complaint that he filed against someone else (for screaming fits and racist comments) has resulted into an investigation of my BIL (for supposedly showing favortism to members of his same race) and him being suspended today.

Anyone know a lawyer that deals with this sort of thing that works in the DC/Virginia area? He could just pick one randomly in the phone book, but some word of mouth would be good

[Skierchickie]

Mickchick - I had a somewhat similar situation about 10 years ago. A guy in his 50s, previously self-employed, and somewhat crazy. In his interview (we had this procedure there where groups of co-workers would interview prospective employees, not just the boss). Anyway, Red Flag #1 was when he asked me, during his interview, if I was married, how long, and later on whether I had kids. When I said "no", he said "Really?? 10 years and no kids? Your mother and mother-in-law must be worried!". Nobody else picked up on anything, and he got hired. Next, in a meeting, my only female co-worker and I were sitting across the table from him. His comment? "Wow - two left-handed females. They filled two quotas at once!".

Okay, months later, and much gritting of teeth on my part, the last straw was the day I walked down the aisle to my cubicle, past the copier area. He had it all torn apart, and was at his wit's end. "AH - women's work!" was his way of trying to get me to help him. :mad:

I realized I had to bite the bullet and talk to him about it. It was never going to stop. I handled it the best I could, but was all nervous & jittery. I didn't want to rat him out to the boss without ever having said anything directly to him. He absolutely did not get it. He thought my objection to his "left-handed female" remark was about the left-handed part. He also said that he had nothing against female engineers, but in his experience none of them were very good. Etc, etc. So I went back to my desk, SEETHING!

Not long after, he went on a business trip with the boss. He he he. After they got back, my boss called me into his office, made me close the door,.... "So, what's going on between you and XYZ?" I said, "ER, nothing, why?". He said "That isn't what XYZ said - tell me your side". So I did. My boss produced a letter for me to sign, saying if XYZ EVER said any of that stuff to me again, I would tell him, and the guy would be disciplined. The letter went in both of our employee files.

End of story, he was fired for something else (I'm sure it didn't help his case) shortly thereafter. :cool:

The moral of my story: I'm really glad you talked to your boss. This stuff can NOT go on, or it will just keep happening. We are no longer in the Dark Ages, my friend.

[Selkie]

Catriona - I'm sorry to hear about your brother. Can't say I'm surprised. I know of an attorney, but she specializes in Federal employee EEO issues. Let me know if you want her name and I'll pm you.

Dino has been giving me the Silent Treatment since my boss spoke to him. All I'll say to that is Thank God!! ;);)

[Skierchickie]

Dino has been giving me the Silent Treatment since my boss spoke to him. All I'll say to that is Thank God!! ;);)

Yep. In my case, it was the silent treatment, plus apparently telling the guys in the office to be careful what they said to me. :mad: Clearly thought I was a militant feminist or something (I'm actually pretty lame, and it took summoning all my courage to confront him, in as friendly a manner as possible). One of the coolest guys there told me about that after the fact. He thought it was pretty funny, which was a relief to me (because it meant that at least HE didn't see me as hyper-sensitive).

On the bright side, I really do think these morons are fewer and farther between than they were 20 years ago. Either that, or they've learned to keep their traps shut. It's people like you, Mickchick, who are helping to eradicate them from the planet.