What am I even looking for?!?

[ACiveE]

A while ago I got into road biking--my significant other is big into cycling and ONLY road cycling. It seemed completely theraputic for my chronically bad back. Unlike most physical activities that had me in pain almost instantly, I was pain free even after 70-100 miles. Naturally, I purchased a road bike--a beautiful carbon fiber Cannondale Synapse with Ultegra/Dura Ace. I now ride every couple of days and almost every weekend(and alllll weekend). I have met many great people and learned of lots of great trails, paths, and rides. I however am unable to participate in some of this because I have a road bike. No dirt, gravel, chipped rocks with my little tires. So I'm looking at add a bike but I have NO idea what I am even looking for. :confused:

I'm naturally leary of people trying to sell me things so I want to have my ducks in order before I go into the store to even chat. I am even open to buying used, online, whatever. So here are my desires: I want to be able to ride on bluechip/gravel/etc. I do NOT need to be able to race through the woods jumping off of cliffs/rocks/whatever else some of those mountain-bikers do. I am looking for something relatively light--I have a really bad back. I'm in my early 20's and I've now had two back surgeries, likely more to come--and I live multiple flights up stairs in an apartment complex and have to carry my bike up and down each time I ride. I like the positioning/fit on my current road bike... I'd say I have a relaxed road position... but not upright at all. I want something that looks sleek and sexy. I know--vain. haha... :D


So what should I be looking for?... I don't really have a budget per se, as I just want something that will get me out on the trails but not leaving me with tinges of regret down the line(ie I wish I would have upgraded to this or that... or why did I waste my money on this).

Insight? Please..... :o What *kind* of bike should I look for? Brands, models?

[KnottedYet]

Cyclocross bikes might be what you are looking for.

There are lots of brands, frame materials, etc. I have two cyclocross bikes: a Waterford X-12 made in USA, and a Surly Cross Check made in Taiwan. Both my bikes are steel. I like steel, ymmv.

Cyclocross bikes are kind of like spry sturdy road bikes. They are built to have clearance for juicy tires and the bottom bracket is higher so you can get over oogly-bits in your way.

Here are a couple pretty things to look at:
Surly Cross Check: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check_complete/
Salsa Fargo - wild and crazy! http://www.salsacycles.com/fargoComp09.html
Waterford: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=671
Gunnar: http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/cross-hairs/
Jamis Aurora: http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebikes/road/aurora/09_aurora_spec.html
Redline Conquest: http://www.redlinebicycles.com/bikes/cyclocross/2010-conquest

[ACiveE]

Salsa Fargo - wild and crazy! http://www.salsacycles.com/fargoComp09.html


ooooh... fun!

Thanks! :) I will look into these links. So will most cyclocross bikes be trail-ready? or will I have to switch out the wheelsets?

[Zen]

Cyclocross bikes might be what you are looking for.



Or a touring bike.

[KnottedYet]

ooooh... fun!

Thanks! :) I will look into these links. So will most cyclocross bikes be trail-ready? or will I have to switch out the wheelsets?

They are meant for the trails etc, so the wheels are already what you want.
You may choose slicker or knobbier tires depending on what you intend to ride on, which is what I did. I switched my knobbies for Vittoria Randonneurs on my Surly cuz I don't really need knobbies when mostly I ride on asphalt and only a little packed dirt.

[KnottedYet]

Or a touring bike.

Touring bikes are way sexy, too. They tend to be a lot more stable (less squirrelly) than cyclocross. You can load the heck out of them and still sail along.

If you can get to a shop that sells Surly, compare a Surly Long Haul Trucker (touring) with a Surly Cross Check (cyclocross). Give each a good ride and take them over some gravel, grass, and dirt. Same brand, same frame materials; so the comparison might more clear than if you mixed brands and frame materials.

Besides, it's another excuse to ride more bikes! :p

Surly Long Haul Trucker: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/

[WindingRoad]

A very cool bike I like is the Giant Seek. It's technically a commuter bike but has a big fat slick tire on it. Rides like the wind and pretty light weight.

Initially I thought trail bike for you because of your back; that's a mountain bike with dual suspension. The drawback is they tend to be pretty heavy because of the extra 'stuff' but because they ride so smooth I thought that might be good for not jolting your back around on rough off road courses. I know they make carbon one's too that are a lot light but they are a bit pricey, however it sounds like you have a pretty kickin' road bike so maybe you should go try one out?

I love that road bike you have, I rode it at the LBS here and it was like butta'. It's quick feeling but very forgiving to the body, great design by Cannondale on that one.

[ACiveE]

Touring bikes are way sexy, too. They tend to be a lot more stable (less squirrelly) than cyclocross. You can load the heck out of them and still sail along.

If you can get to a shop that sells Surly, compare a Surly Long Haul Trucker (touring) with a Surly Cross Check (cyclocross). Give each a good ride and take them over some gravel, grass, and dirt. Same brand, same frame materials; so the comparison might more clear than if you mixed brands and frame materials.

Besides, it's another excuse to ride more bikes! :p

Surly Long Haul Trucker: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/

Can you explain what you mean by squirrelly?

[KnottedYet]

More or less responsive.

If having a bike respond to your every command (intentional or not) feels wrong, you might say it feels twitchy or squirrelly.

My best example is with kayaks. I love the longish (17 foot) touring kayaks. I can't stand the chubby short puttering kayaks because they feel sluggish. Racing kayaks (long and very narrow) scare the ever lovin' cr@p out of me because they respond to every dang move I make and I seriously feel like I am gonna flip 'em over. Too squirrelly for me, but someone who loves racing kayaks is going to feel like my favorite touring kayak is sluggish and not responsive enough. It took a lot of kayak rentals for me to figure out what I liked best.

Ride lots of bikes, the more the better, and on lots of surfaces. You'll notice which bikes feel like they were made for you and which feel like you're engaged in a wrestling match.

Tire size makes a big difference, too, so also make notes of which tires you like on which surfaces during your test rides. I have no problem riding 23-25s on fresh gravel, but prefer 32s. So if I found a bike that felt marvelous in every way but wasn't quite up to snuff on gravel, I'd ask the shop to change out the tires before I gave up on the bike.

[lauraelmore1033]

You can definitely ride trails with a cyclocross bike, but as I recently discovered doing the "Stinky Spoke" ride, certain areas of steep, (somewhat, but not too technical) single track, or thick gravel will give you trouble. If you don't mind hopping off the bike and hoofin' it through those spots, you can certainly still have a lot of fun with your MB buds. I did, however, scour craig's list afterwards for an "entry level" MB, and am finding that having the proper bike for the conditions is MUCH more satisfying.

[ACiveE]

You can definitely ride trails with a cyclocross bike, but as I recently discovered doing the "Stinky Spoke" ride, certain areas of steep, (somewhat, but not too technical) single track, or thick gravel will give you trouble. If you don't mind hopping off the bike and hoofin' it through those spots, you can certainly still have a lot of fun with your MB buds. I did, however, scour craig's list afterwards for an "entry level" MB, and am finding that having the proper bike for the conditions is MUCH more satisfying.

http://louisvilleoutside.com/wordpress_lo/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mcneely_lake_gravel_trail.jpg

I've attached a generic photo from the internet... would a cyclocross be able to handle this? This is what a lot of the trails around me look like. I have been browsing craigslist but it seems like you need to be *very* savy... not quite where I am yet! :p

[lauraelmore1033]

Definitely looks do-able, I'd say.

[moderncyclista]

I'd go cyclo-cross bike. It would be lighter on average than a mountain bike. Which is one of your concerns right? With back probs. and flights of stairs to climb. Lots of manufacturers make them - one thing - if you are short, most cyclocross bikes don't come in a small enough size. I think Surly's CrossCheck is the exception. If you are not, you don't have to worry.

Trek makes the XO-1 and XO-2 www.trekbikes.com, Specialized makes the TriCross www.specializedbikes.com, Jamis makes some fine bikes - Nova Race, Nova Pro, and SuperNova www.jamisbikes.com, and the other suggestions are great too!

Do your research. That is the best advice I can give you. Go to your Local Bike Shop (LBS for short on the boards) and ask questions. Do not go to a dept. store - steer clear of cheap. Quality does matter in bicycles. Or, if your budget is big go custom. You have lots of options. Happy bike-shopping to you.

[KnottedYet]

I ride my Surly Cross Check on trails just like that and little dirt and gravel roads. She likes 'em! :D
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check_complete/ Anything more exciting than stroll-able trails, I wouldn't ride any bike on. Cuz I'm just not that coordinated...

If I did things like that more, I'd keep knobby tires on; but mostly I ride on asphalt so I use smooth tires.

[ACiveE]

Hmmm... so I went to a LBS this evening. I told them my desires and asked them about cyclocross bikes. They balked at the idea stating that it would be an incredibly rough ride and that it didn't seem to be what I need. They suggested a Gary Fisher dual sport. Ideas??? Is that a ridiculous suggestion? They said riding a cyclocross would be like slapping slightly larger tires on my road bike. On packed dirt, a decently comfortable ride but on larger chipped rock, it would be bumpy and jarring.

Following this suggestion I inquired about why I would go with a "dual sport" instead of just a mountain bike then... they didn't really answer that for me.

[KnottedYet]

Well, I'm not sure why they were recommending a hybrid.

Your descriptions of your needs were so clear from your post that a hybrid didn't really leap to mind, and since you already ride and have a beloved road bike and know your back does well in road-bike position. (I loved my hybrid, I'm not knocking hybrids. If you posted to us that you didn't have a bike at all and were just beginning to explore the different kinds of riding available, and didn't want to be in a road-biker position; you bet we'd've been talking about hybrids we know and love.)

Did you like this shop? Are they worth a second try? Did you feel like they gave you some good reasons why a hybrid would meet your needs, or did it seem more like the standard "woman walks into a bike shop" routine? Did they even offer to let you test ride a cyclocross or mountain bike? Did they even show you what cross and mtb they had?

ETA: cyclocross and road bikes have different geometry. Geometry definitely changes the character of a bike. Cross aren't just road bikes with wider tires slapped on. That sounds kind of like a cop-out on the shop's part. Also, they need to let you ride the bikes AND talk to you about them, not just redirect you. They should let you feel the things they are talking about. I'd have more faith if they said, "Here, ride this cyclocross in the gravel of our parking lot. Then come back and ride this mtb. Last ride this hybrid. Then lets talk about the bikes and the rides." (I guess I'm spoiled by my shop. They never tell me something if they can have me experience it instead.)

ETA #2: I loved my hybrid, it was a Kona Dew. (no suspension) Kona makes a Dew Drop now, which is the Dew but with the dropped bars for the road position you like for your back. http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=dewdrop It's very similar in character to a cyclocross bike.

[ACiveE]

Well, I'm not sure why they were recommending a hybrid.

Your descriptions of your needs were so clear from your post that a hybrid didn't really leap to mind, and since you already ride and have a beloved road bike, it's not like you need a do-it-all bike. (I loved my hybrid, I'm not knocking hybrids. If you posted to us that you didn't have a bike at all and were just beginning to explore the different kinds of riding available, and didn't want to be in a road-biker position; you bet we'd've been talking about hybrids we know and love.)

Did you like this shop? Are they worth a second try? Did you feel like they gave you some good reasons why a hybrid would meet your needs, or did it seem more like the standard "woman walks into a bike shop" routine? Did they even offer to let you test ride a cyclocross or mountain bike? Did they even show you what cross and mtb they had?

ETA: cyclocross and road bikes have different geometry. Geometry definitely changes the character of a bike. Cross aren't just road bikes with wider tires slapped on. That sounds kind of like a cop-out on the shop's part. Also, they need to let you ride the bikes AND talk to you about them, not just redirect you. They should let you feel the things they are talking about. I'd have more faith if they said, "Here, ride this cyclocross in the gravel of our parking lot. Then come back and ride this mtb. Last ride this hybrid. Then lets talk about the bikes and the rides." (I guess I'm spoiled by my shop. They never tell me something if they can have me experience it instead.)

I have no rapport with any LBS. I shopped around locally for my road bike but the store that I felt comfortable at(and liked) didn't sell the bike(brand) I decided on.

I have worked with the owner of this particular LBS and he's nice--this individual was much younger and I feel like I definitely got the "young woman needs a boring bike" routine. Granted, I don't have much knowledge, but I was kind of offended that they weren't willing to educate. I think I might go back once I read up a bit on cyclocross bikes.

BTW, THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for helping me out! :D

[moderncyclista]

Researching on your own always helps. Then you are armed with knowledge that you can take with you while shopping. When I was shopping for a touring bike, my bike shop tried to re-direct me too. Saying "Steel is sluggish, you'll hate it," and so on. They tried to sell me on a Specialized Ruby Expert, which was very nice - but not what I wanted.

Finally I just told them to order the 520 and quit showing me other bikes. Before I even went in to my LBS - I did my own measurements to make sure I'd fit. (inseam, top-tube, etc.) It is sad but sometimes, bike shops make the mistake of forcing their preference on you - or like my bike shop - work on commision - based on if they sell a model they have "in-stock" (they don't make a commision on one they have to order.) So, arm yourself with as much knowledge as possible. Being prepared is the best advice I have to give.

[lauraelmore1033]

Run the other way from a shop that tells you that a cyclocross bike is just a road bike with big tires! My Specialized Tricross sport has mountain bike "guts"(gearing) and brakes in addition to slightly wider tires. Sounds like they couldn't be all that knowledgeable...

[ACiveE]

Run the other way from a shop that tells you that a cyclocross bike is just a road bike with big tires! My Specialized Tricross sport has mountain bike "guts"(gearing) and brakes in addition to slightly wider tires. Sounds like they couldn't be all that knowledgeable...

I don't think this is *quite* all what they were saying--they simply insinuated something along thoes lines in regards to ride quality. What is your opinion on this? How is the ride quality? Harsher than a mountain bike?

[lauraelmore1033]

Bumpy desents are definitely more comfortable for hands wrists and shoulders on the mountain bike, but the sittin' bits don't feel much different either way.

[ACiveE]

I stopped at another shop over my lunch and am begining to think that a cyclocross may be my best choice. I saw the Trek XOs and the Specialized Tricross and quite a few Cannondale 29ers. Seems like everyone wants to sell me a mountain bike...

Now... the kicker: I did a quick search on used bikes and I found a nearly new Tricross that *may* be in my size for an incredible deal (ie about 1/3 of original cost)--but about two hours away. I pulled my road bike geometry and the geometry is quite similar. I have called around to local (ie less than two hours) shops to see if anyone has one in stock, and NO ONE does. :-/ I don't know what to do. At the price, I might just snatch it up, ride it a little, and then resell if it really doesn't fit.

I'm going to start a new thread about the fit thing because I'm veering a little off course from the original purpose of this thread.

Thanks!!

[aicabsolut]

How often are you going to be hitting these trails? Are you going to ride them when they're muddy?

Assuming that's pretty packed down dirt and gravel, you can ride it just fine on your road bike. Just use a heavier gear for stability.

If you're going to be riding on softer stuff, mud, or hitting very large gravel or just don't want to chip up your pretty road bike paint, then I'd go with a cross bike. The brakes have more clearance for when your rims get all gunked up, and you can use wider tires with cross wheels. Depending on the kind of brake and frame clearance you have right now with the road bike, you could get a tough set of wheels and put some slightly wider, slightly treaded cross tires on them and use your road bike.

I ride gravel and dirt from time to time on my road bike and am ok with it. I prefer using the one with the wider wheel base, but both do just fine. Going down a twisty mountain descent on large gravel was terrifying, and going up steep hills sucks if you don't get your pedal stroke smooth (and your saddle slips to be pointing nearly straight up! :mad:). I think I'd still have problems with those things on a cross bike.

I don't do that kind of riding enough to warrant getting another bike, but if I did, I'd go with a cross bike. I agree with the others that it or a touring bike are a good choice for you since you like your road bike so much. I'd probably pick cross, because it would tend to be lighter than a touring bike.

[TrekTheKaty]

I was just going to say that, aicabsolut. I guess it's because my husband used to ride a mountain bike and I started with a hybrid. It's a little embarrassing where we take our expensive/fancy road bikes. Serious riders scrunch their nose at us, but 20% of our riding is on the Missouri Katy Trail. It's pea gravel with occasional bigger and loose gravel. Both my husband and I ride our road bikes on the trail. I currently have 700x23 tires on my bike, but I believe I had 28's before that and they were perfect. My sister has a hybrid and just went down to the 28's and is still comfortable on the gravel. It's the perfect compromise for us. My husband even bought a second set of rims to put "gravel" tires on--but found it wasn't worth the trouble. DH has had a couple blowouts, but he's a big boy on a carbon fiber bike with skinny tires (always carry tubes and a pump--we zip tie a spare tire to the frame on long gravel rides or centuries).

In fact, funny story. We did our first century 2 years ago. We rode as much of the anticipated route in segments as we could beforehand. (St Louis Ride the Rivers). The route includes many local trails and paths. During the ride, when we thought we should have been jumping up on the gravel top levee, everyone turned off onto a road. We were so confused. It took us half the ride the figure out that the "roadies" would rather ride in traffic than a perfectly good trail! I certainly felt like I graduated to a road rider, but still couldn't resist gazing at the perfectly good (no cars) trail just over there :)

[ACiveE]

I was just going to say that, aicabsolut. I guess it's because my husband used to ride a mountain bike and I started with a hybrid. It's a little embarrassing where we take our expensive/fancy road bikes. Serious riders scrunch their nose at us, but 20% of our riding is on the Missouri Katy Trail. It's pea gravel with occasional bigger and loose gravel. Both my husband and I ride our road bikes on the trail. I currently have 700x23 tires on my bike, but I believe I had 28's before that and they were perfect. My sister has a hybrid and just went down to the 28's and is still comfortable on the gravel. It's the perfect compromise for us. My husband even bought a second set of rims to put "gravel" tires on--but found it wasn't worth the trouble. DH has had a couple blowouts, but he's a big boy on a carbon fiber bike with skinny tires (always carry tubes and a pump--we zip tie a spare tire to the frame on long gravel rides or centuries).

In fact, funny story. We did our first century 2 years ago. We rode as much of the anticipated route in segments as we could beforehand. (St Louis Ride the Rivers). The route includes many local trails and paths. During the ride, when we thought we should have been jumping up on the gravel top levee, everyone turned off onto a road. We were so confused. It took us half the ride the figure out that the "roadies" would rather ride in traffic than a perfectly good trail! I certainly felt like I graduated to a road rider, but still couldn't resist gazing at the perfectly good (no cars) trail just over there :)

I have ridden on gravel with my bike but it does ding the paint and a flat I got dinged my wheel quite badly. I think some of the appeal is also getting a "cheaper" bike that I won't be afraid to ride around town. I live in a college town and there is no way I'd chain up my road bike. I have ridden it to my office(and we even have our own "chaining area" and brought it inside but my officemates probably don't appreciate it.

I'm still browsing for a used bike. I have some leads... we'll see what I can find in the coming months.

Thankkks!!

[Aquila]

I'm wondering if the LBS you went to just doesn't have any cross bikes and so is trying to sell you what they have rather than what you want?

I doubt I could get a cross bike within 50 miles of where I live, but they'd all be happy to sell me a hybrid instead.

[ACiveE]

I'm wondering if the LBS you went to just doesn't have any cross bikes and so is trying to sell you what they have rather than what you want?

I doubt I could get a cross bike within 50 miles of where I live, but they'd all be happy to sell me a hybrid instead.

No. They actually *all* sell cross bikes. Also, instock. Oh well.

[ACiveE]

Welllll... I got a bike!

I'm not sure if I'll keep it but I like it enough to give it a shot. It's a used Van Dessel G&T. I'll post more when I receive the shipment.