Made in China- do we care?

[arielmoon]

So I am trying to be more conscious of where things are made and I want to put my dollars in the right place.

I am shopping for a vented riding vest and I cant seem to find one that isnt made in China. I love the PI whisper vest but I sure would like to find something made in the good old USA.

How important is it and does it really make a difference in the scheme of things to avoid things made in China.

I am putting this in the cycling area because my thoughts are on cycling gear and apparel.

[Bike Chick]

Buying American made supports American jobs........I try to do it when I can but, unfortunately, we don't always have the choice.:(

[Veronica]

I try to buy American, but it's hard with clothes. I actively try to avoid China made, but again it's hard. I don't have anything against the Chinese really, it's cheap, poorly made crap I don't like. :rolleyes:

Veronica

[GLC1968]

I always try to buy american made goods - or even locally made ones if possible...but it's certainly not always practical.

I think that for me, 'made in China' is part of the decision-making process. If I see that label and it's an item I can do without, then I skip it. Similarly, if I have two equally qualified items from which to choose and one is made in China, I'll pick the other one. I am willing to pay more for items made in the US, but the option isn't always there, so we have to do the best we can with what we have available to us.

[ridebikeme]

I agree with all of you, adn try to buy products either personally or for the shop that are produced here in the US. But as all of you know, it's very difficult.

Louis Garneau tends to make their own clothing here in the US or Canada, and I try and support them as much as possible. Giordana has great quality clothing as well... I think most of theirs come from Italy. At any rate, hope this helps...

Now, I wish that I were able to buy bikse that were made here as well... I was able to a few years ago, but not any more:(

[shootingstar]

I tend to judge the overall garment quality and price before I look at where it was made.

There are certain types of garmets where I do want long-lasting quality-- jackets in particular, shoes, etc.

For the past few decades, I have actively invested in Canadian firms some with international operations (for the global market exposure). This is the area where I feel I can make the strongest contribution to support the Canadian economy.

In Toronto, there was an active vibrant garmet industry where I remember shopping to get deals on local-manufactured clothing.

Gone when free trade agreement was signed.

There are certain fresh foods that I won't buy from China..because it makes no sense to me and doesn't feel "safe" in terms of how it must have been produced so cheaply to fly it here (and tons of fuel for the shipping???) I mean, snow peas from China. How ridiculous when such a veggie can be easily grown in British Columbia?

[tulip]

Now, I wish that I were able to buy bikse that were made here as well... I was able to a few years ago, but not any more:(

Sure there are! But you have to be willing to pay the price to support US workers. There are small shops, and smaller shops. Terry (some of theirs are made by Waterford), Waterford, Bike Friday, and a whole host of small framebuilders.

When we put your money where our mouth is, we often have to put more money there, or take it away from some other budget category.

Arialmoon, I don't know about a vest for you. For winter riding gear, I tend to go to Goodwill for my layers (old cashemere sweaters make the best cycling layers for really cold riding), but cycling specific clothing is rarely available there. So I do what I can to buy the best quality, and only buy what I really need (an ongoing process).

[OakLeaf]

I'm with GLC.

It's not only China that I try to avoid. Because of China's sheer size and the way its economy has developed, they're probably the world's largest source of sweatshop-made, environmentally deadly goods... but by no means the only one.

Country of origin is only one of the labels I read and one of the factors that goes into every purchase decision. Organic fair trade Rishi brand Chinese tea? The only thing that makes me hesitate even briefly is that their organic certification is done by huge for-profit privately held QAI, which I don't necessarily trust. (I prefer Japanese tea, but that's just because of the flavor. And should an American be drinking tea - "real" tea, camellia sinensis, at all? :o)

As far as the OP, I don't know of anything either. :( But Velowear makes a men's vest - it might be worth contacting them and letting them know there's a demand, and maybe in the future they'll do one in women's sizes as well.




ETA:


When we put your money where our mouth is, we often have to put more money there, or take it away from some other budget category.

Maybe only partially true, and maybe not at all, when you do real-cost accounting and look at the whole picture. If I pay an extra 30% or 40% to buy a product made in my own country, state, or county, then I've made sure that money stays in my community, and some or even all of it it comes back to me. It comes back in a higher tax base - better roads means fewer repairs on my vehicles; better cultural opportunities and libraries mean I don't have to purchase as many books or travel long distances to see shows; better equipped first responders, when I need them, can benefit me financially as well as physically; higher real estate values "raise all boats" (bubbles excepted, of course). It comes back in making it a more livable community, more attractive to professionals whose services I may need in the future, so I don't have to travel a long distance to see a competent (or any!) doctor or lawyer. It comes back in less use of mechanized transport and the associated pollution, and the associated health problems that I pay for both when my own health is affected, and when my insurance premiums reflect my neighbors' impaired health. Et cetera....

[ridebikeme]

Tulip, yes I am well aware that there are many frame builders in the US, and quite frankly, they make incredible bikes! However, when a customer tells me how much they have to work with, then obviously that is my limit. My comment was directed at the mass produced bike companies. I truly wish that more of my customers could afford to use more small frame builders, and perhaps one day they will be able to.

[VeloVT]

Check out Castelli vests, most of their clothing seems to be made in Eastern Europe.

I'm not too picky about where things are made, with a few exceptions. I will not buy edible or personal care/cosmetic items from China, nor items that come into contact with food, because I do not trust their regulatory system. This means no inexpensive bags of frozen shrimp at the grocery store... I also buy a specific kind of contact solution because it's made in Canada, and many of the other brands are manufactured in China.

If I had kids I'd probably be pretty wary of toys from China too.

[Susan Otcenas]

Terry (some of theirs are made by Waterford),

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

[arielmoon]

Check out Castelli vests, most of their clothing seems to be made in Eastern Europe.

I'm not too picky about where things are made, with a few exceptions. I will not buy edible or personal care/cosmetic items from China, nor items that come into contact with food, because I do not trust their regulatory system. This means no inexpensive bags of frozen shrimp at the grocery store... I also buy a specific kind of contact solution because it's made in Canada, and many of the other brands are manufactured in China.

If I had kids I'd probably be pretty wary of toys from China too.

I am very leery of pet items made there too. I switched from ceramic feed/ water bowls to stainless after my last dog developed a tumor on his face. Ya never know!

[VeloVT]

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

Is Selle Italia no longer going to make their saddles? It's interesting, the new Terry saddle, the FLX, looks almost identical except for the graphics to the Selle Italia SLK.

http://www.terrybicycles.com/pages/terry-men-s-flx-saddle.html

[bmccasland]

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

Aw man. :( another one bites the dust.

[ridebikeme]

Well, after looking at a bunch of Louis Garneau jerseys today.. I was very disturbed. The last few that came in were indeed made in China AGH!!! NO wonder the fit continually changes with this company.::confused:

[tulip]

I like to sew, but I have not sewn any cycling gear. Sewing lycra is tricky without the proper sewing machine attachments, and my 1952 Singer definitely doesn't have them! But I'm willing to try other fabrics.

Does anyone know of cycling/athletic wear patterns?

[crazycanuck]

Thinking...Perhaps check out MEC's website as I know they mention where items were made & think i have a vest made in Canada. Same with Ground Effect.

www.groundeffect.co.nz
www.mec.ca

[shootingstar]

Thread on sewing cycling clothing has some useful links:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=33049&highlight=sewing

Geez tulip, 1952 Singer..beats my 1983 Kenmore which my mother selected after I graduated from university. No, she wasn't sending me the wrong message. I sewed alot of my business work clothing during the lst few years.

Would think that a polyester fabric not too stretchy would be fine for sewing. Not sure it you could simulate a serge stitch or a fabric sewn edge that would not rub /irriate skin much when moving around alot. But a jersey not skin tight, should be fine.
________________________________________________________________
Unless it's a warehouse sale, I can't afford the local-made sporting wear brands that we have ie. Sugoi (just less than 2 kms. away) or Arc'teryx (a 24 kms. bike ride in North Vancouver) But they don't normally sell direct. Taiga is ok but I would have to check where actually made.

Sadly another local-based firm, Climate Zone seems to be folding up since we bought some great stuff on a close-out sale a few weeks ago.

[Bike Chick]

Does anyone know of cycling/athletic wear patterns?
There are several "threads" on here about sewing your own clothes. Just do a search. I know that Green Pepper makes cycling clothes patterns and you could always take an old jersey apart to make your own pattern.

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.
Susan, that's very disappointing news. I had no idea.:(

Maybe only partially true, and maybe not at all, when you do real-cost accounting and look at the whole picture. If I pay an extra 30% or 40% to buy a product made in my own country, state, or county, then I've made sure that money stays in my community, and some or even all of it it comes back to me. It comes back in a higher tax base - better roads means fewer repairs on my vehicles; better cultural opportunities and libraries mean I don't have to purchase as many books or travel long distances to see shows; better equipped first responders, when I need them, can benefit me financially as well as physically; higher real estate values "raise all boats" (bubbles excepted, of course). It comes back in making it a more livable community, more attractive to professionals whose services I may need in the future, so I don't have to travel a long distance to see a competent (or any!) doctor or lawyer. It comes back in less use of mechanized transport and the associated pollution, and the associated health problems that I pay for both when my own health is affected, and when my insurance premiums reflect my neighbors' impaired health. Et cetera....
Amen, Oak, you are preaching to the choir. I wish many others thought this way.

[Cataboo]

I have a couple of ti bikes that the frames are made in the USA. Mostly I've been picking up bikes 2nd hand, so where they'rde is somewhat the luck of the draw in what fits me in something I want... But I'm happy to have a couple bikes that are made in the US.

Clothing - I don't go out of my way to only get clothing made in the US or not in china, but I am definitely willing to spend more on clothing that is made in the US and am more likely to buy brands that I know make their clothing in a country that's probably paying reasonable wages to their workers.

I definitely have never paid full price for arc'teryx - but I was willing to pay more for on sale arc'teryx because it was made in Canada, more than I was willing to pay for made in china north face or mountain hardwear. I've been really dised that lately they've moved a lot of their production to Canada and they raised their prices to boot... So people get to pay more for the pleasure of buying chinese made arc'teryx? So basically I don't buy any chinese made arc'teryx and buy much less arc'teryx overall.

[moderncyclista]

Maybe I'm naive, but I thought Trek made their frames in the U.S. Nope, my LBS says my lil' 520 was shaped/welded/painted in Taiwan of all places. :(

Even Cannondale doesn't produce any frames in the U.S. anymore.

*sigh*

What cycling clothing manufacturers make stuff in the U.S. again?

[Cataboo]

trek's high end carbon frames are still made in the US, I believe.

Cars are getting kind of murky, as well... I saw a kia commercial the other day and i think they said their cars were made in Georgia or Alabama or something like that. My ford escort in college was made in Canada.

[KnottedYet]

What cycling clothing manufacturers make stuff in the U.S. again?

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

[NbyNW]

This is a fascinating discussion from the perspective of an American who is living in Canada.

Edmonton seems to be dominated by big box stores -- I really have to go out of my way to spend money at a place that is locally owned and run. And since it's winter, I presume that our fresh produce is either coming from greenhouses or from quite far away.

With regards to goods made abroad, it seems that the primary concerns are, in no particular order (everyone has their own priorities):

- quality/safety of products
- working conditions/human rights
- impact on domestic/local economies
- geopolitical/ethical (i.e., don't agree with Beijing's stance on Tibet or Taiwan, etc.)

As a Taiwanese American, from the time I began earning my own money, I never wanted a cent to go to China. But I found it was nearly impossible as a struggling 20-something in the mid-90s to even buy socks and underwear at my budget that weren't made in China. More options have evolved as American consumers have begun to pay more attention to issues such as labor conditions and product safety, so that's a good thing.

I feel that my stance on this has also evolved. Few things are made entirely in one place anymore. Icebreaker ships its raw wool from NZ to China to be processed and made into finished products. It's a good company with great products and strong environmental ethics, and they've made a great effort to be consistent with those ethics at every stage of production. Yes, their products cost a little more, but it's a company I don't mind supporting.

I was on a whale-watching boat last week, and one of the guides told us, when you do a trip like this, you show the community that there is an economically viable alternative to killing whales.

So, supporting a company like Icebreaker in my mind is a little like eco-tourism. Show the Chinese that ethical practices pay off.

As for the bicycle industry -- I'm just glad that, for the moment, there are millions of Chinese riding bicycles instead of driving cars.

[deeaimond]

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

Yeah, I realised that when they were having their 'moving' sale last year end. a rep told me...

adding to the note, even other south east asian economies suffered with the rise of china. when i was young, there was a viable garment manufacturing industry here, many home-makers made extra money by taking home consignments of sewing. as well as local garment factories. now these jobs are all gone. just a few left. most of our manufacturing industry was lost to other asian countries.... even as an asian country, we're no longer viable. we're too expensive!!

all in all, its pretty scary.

With the american financial crises, i think it got worse coz the small american companies can't get financing and have to close, even if they had good business....

[Susan Otcenas]

Some Ibex is made in the USA: www.ibexwear.com
All Joneswares is made in the USA: www.joneswares.com
All Harlot is made in the USA: www.harlotwear.com

I know there're more, but I'm at work and can't sneak off and go searching...

REI has a "specialty shop" option: Made in the USA. Click that, and you get items carried at REI that are made in the US.

Couple things:
We publish the country of origin for pretty much every item on the website. For example: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodDE_WFTT.html
The right hand side of the product tab (default view) under the photo shows a bunch of fields with details. One of those fields is country of origin. So, you can see that this DeSoto tri suit is made in the USA.

Many of our vendors make many items in the US. Canari & Sheila Moon do almost everything in California, for example. Canada is a popular choice as well, especially with Descente, Shebeest, Sugoi & Louis Garneau.

Certain classes of goods are almost always made in the US (synthtic socks, for example), while other classes of goods are almost NEVER made in the US (jackets and wetsuits being 2 typical examples).

Made in China doesn't mean it's junk. In fact, the Chinese make some of the most technically sophisticated apparel available. Wetsuits are a great example of this. Wetsuits are very difficult to produce (doing a blind stitch on a 1mm neoprene wetsuit sleeve is an art) and the Chinese manufacturers are very very good at it.

The harsh reality is that the vast vast majority of consumers simply will not pay the price it would require to get certain things made in the US. Outerwear is a good example. It is not economically feasible to produce it here. US manufacturers simply can not produce an equivalent product (fabrics/features, etc) for the price most consumers will pay. That is mostly due to the very high cost of US labor. (and that's true of many industries other than apparel. Car parts are another example of that.)

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

[smilingcat]

Mainland China is easy to blame. It's not just the Chinese with xenophobic mentality, we do too. When a big European company takes over an American, not too much complaint. When an Asian company does the same, fears are raised.

Now as for buying American read the following

Commonwealth of Northern Marianas Island (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/lwsch/journals/bciclr/24_2/06_TXT.htm)

just a quick exerpt:

Recently, substantial attention has been drawn to the methods used by CNMI factory employers to reach these sky-rocketing export dollars.61 Manufacturers on Saipan have been sharply criticized for horrific working conditions,62 failure to pay wages owed to employees,63 forcing female workers to have abortions,64 and refusing to allow workers to attend religious services.65

And the garments manufactured there can proudly AND legally afix Made in America/USA.

In the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), a group of islands which the U.S. acquired after World War II and which became a U.S. territory by popular vote in 1976, the Asian garment industry has set up shop.7 Owners of factories there enjoy duty-free exports to the U.S. and can claim that their products have been “Made in the U.S.A.,” creating consumer confidence that the workers who produced them are protected by U.S. labor law.8

This time, I did manage to get my source and the reference.

Very sad and very scary...

[shootingstar]

I don't mean to be flip, but the reality is that most people want the very best for the very least cost. That's human nature. That's why Walmart is the biggest retailer on the planet. That's why cotton tees can be had for $4 and a 6 quart crock pot costs $19.99 (or less!) at Target. That's why TVs are no longer manufactured in the US. Consumers simply won't pay the price.

So, to answer the OPs original question "Do we care?"... I'd have to say that many people care, but most don't change their buying habits when push comes to shove.

Thx for the info. about the types of garments etc. and quality expectations, etc. which i didn't include in this excerpt.

Perhaps when pushed against a wall, one area people might care and follow through with their actions, is a consumer product that is not produced/manufactured properly and endangers personal health and safety.

Useful for us to have this discussion to really see how much as changed in terms of economic trade patterns, manufacturing origins, and changes in consumer attitudes. Or slow-moving changes to consumer attitudes.

Small points:
*deeiamond- didn't know how Singapore economically was affected by the shadow of China

*value of life in ther areas of occupational & health safety seems to be less in certain countries. Abit shocking to have learned from one of the engineers who worked in a 5-yr. $3 billion construction project that over 10-15 construction workers died over that time period in Tawain. Not in 1 sweep, but over that time period. The project was just completed early last year.

Very different in occupational health and safety enforcement compared to many industries in Canada and U.S. What is shocking is some firms from developed countries, ie. Germany may not much better. The above engineering Tawain project was managed/steered by the same firm that I worked for a local engineering project. After all, it was the same firm that hired labourers for our engineering project in suburb of Vancouver,....direct from Serbia, Poland, Thailand and Panama. Why? Because they were paid less than Canadians..because alot of our Canadian tradespeople/labourers that we hired, were unionized and hence, higher wages, etc. Meanwhile we had alot of Canadians unemployed. Yes, things made alot of sense... :(

* Keep in mind before the loss of garment industry in Canada and U.S., there were some sweatshops. Some of my relatives worked in them. But at least the money earned was going back to people who are Canadian.

[Trek420]

The Chinese are great, I love 'em, they do an amazing job and I have no problems buying stuff made there and if anyone from mainland China is lurking a hale and hearty welcome to TE, the best dang place in cyberspace but ....

I want my neighbors to have/keep their jobs too.

The government can not say "let's buy made in the good 'ol USA" or anywhere else if you live somewhere else. If they were to do so everyone screams "protectionism :mad: bad :mad: bad". But we can! :D :) :D I think we all agree wherever you are and whether you're blue, red, green or chartreuse that we need to keep jobs in the US or wherever we all are.

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

[NbyNW]

So chime in; what're a few of your favorite things made here or at least in the same country.

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos
SF/Bay Area: wine, sourdough, and Apple computers
Boston: New Balance shoes
Seattle: Boeing 737s
Edmonton: oil (we're all allowed a guilty pleasure, right?)

[Trek420]

Never been to Vermont .... yet. In a sea of virtually identical bags at REI Knott found:

http://www.reignvermont.com

She can wax poetic about it better than I can but I just I love it. Susan? :cool:

[shootingstar]

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos


Ah, my partner's brother was the lead salesperson right at the Steinway factory/head office in NYC. He was a Canadian selling well on behalf for U.S. for about 10 yrs. for Steinway's. He lived in NYC.

It's a great firm with great product worldwide. It still is with Yamaha, Pearl River (not sure I got latter brand name straight), let's there's a German firm in on this too...

And Heinz, I saw just this past summer in Ontario, the satellite processing plant in Dresden area just a few kms. where a close friend lives. Near historic sites of the Underground Railroad where the black slaves got freedom in Canada. Heinz bought out the independent tomato Canadian producer there. But the tomato pickers are migrant workers from the Carribbean. can't get enough local folks to pick. We drove by their housing, saw their loaned bikes leaned against the buildings.

I dunno....about 40 kms. or so from Canada-U.S. border. I need a map again.
If Americans and vice versa, could understand how intertwined U.S.-Canada trade relations are. How interdependent these 2 countries are.

The U.S. financial industry crash sorta proved it...except Canadian banks managed to stay afloat and Canadian banking execs. still get their bonuses without govn't bailout. Just knuckling under same old Can. regulatory control that we are grateful for.

*It never hurts to request and ask other countries at least, to look after the health and safety of their workers and consumers. Expose the culprits, embarrass them abit. Maybe a few might pay attention in future.

[deeaimond]

Great idea! For each city I've lived in:

Pittsburgh: Heinz Ketchup
New York: Steinway pianos
SF/Bay Area: wine, sourdough, and Apple computers
Boston: New Balance shoes
Seattle: Boeing 737s
Edmonton: oil (we're all allowed a guilty pleasure, right?)

are Apple computers still made in the USA? I bought mine recently and (along with several other things I bought) they usually say designed in California made in China. My iMac was shipped in from Shanghai.

Susan had a good point about the quality of some good products made in China. They do have the expertise and are investing in it.

Also Smilingcat made a scary point.

I've also heard about companies who import all their parts and materials and only assemble/ finish in the US so they can label it 'made in the USA'.

[bmccasland]

There's an interesting TV ad running right now...
Small independant barber shop, been there for a long time, then a "big box" shop opens directly across the street from him and offers hair cuts for $6. So he goes to a BigBox office supply store and gets a banner sign that says "we fix $6 hair cuts" and 6 months later the competitor across the street closes.

We're supposed to feel happy because the little guy beat out his BigBox competitor. But no one was supposed to notice that he didn't go to a small business sign store for his banner. No, he bought his banner from a BigBox Office supply chain. I guess the small business sign shop was already put out of business, but the local barber still has a chance?

[OakLeaf]

Okay, this is really drifty - but related, you'll see. After hearing Joel Salatin on the radio and Wendell Berry ♥♥ in person yesterday, my thoughts strayed to the band-aid on my fingertip....

When I developed a wart a year and a half ago, the first thing I tried was the paint-on chemical wart remover that I'd used on my last wart. That turned out to be unwieldy, so I went to the drugstore and bought some chemical-impregnated pads to be taped onto the wart. After a couple of months the wart seemed to fall off... but within a few weeks it was back.

So next, I went to the drugstore and bought one of those home cryosurgery kits. Waited a week, nothing. Treated the wart again, still nothing. Started combining the home cryosurgery with the chemical wart remover (they sell combined kits, but at least I combined the treatments I already had at home rather than buying yet something else). After three or four months, including some intensive treatment of the "roots," the wart seemed to fall off... but again, within a few weeks it was back.

So FINALLY I started doing some reading and learned about apple cider vinegar. Now, so far it's only been one week, so I don't know whether this will be a permanent cure, but it's working better and MUCH faster than any of the chemical company cr*p I paid good money for - and without near the amount of damage to healthy surrounding skin.

The point being, that even someone like me who considers myself educated and informed and careful about what I buy and use - I still fell prey to chemical company marketing, and immediately, unthinkingly, three times, went for the remedies they sold me when I had a little problem, even though I already had a cheaper, safer and more effective solution on my dining room table. And messing around with their products has cost me a year and a half of playing the guitar (not that I'd been playing regularly, but I have been wanting to get back to it).

That's how difficult it is to change patterns of consumer behavior and thought.

[NbyNW]

are Apple computers still made in the USA?

You're right, they're not, I just couldn't resist putting them on my list. We could probably have a whole separate thread as to whether "Designed in the USA" counts or not. I think the Intel chips are made/designed in the USA - anyone know for sure?

There are so many great products designed in the USA that are manufactured all or on part elsewhere. I think the issue then becomes whether it is being done ethically, and in a nation where we do want to support trade. Trade is not necessarily a bad thing. Hopefully our trade partners are buying about as much from us as we are from them.

[Trek420]

Bmccasland, That's because small local sign shop doesn't have funds for a TV ad in much the same way as your LBS or even bikes themselves don't have those kind of funds. ;)

NbyNW, which sourdough? This is one I like:
http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace.com/acme_bread_company.php

[OakLeaf]

What's from my area?

Amish-built furniture and cabinetry;
art glass;
pottery both artistic and utilitarian;
Amish cheeses;
Longaberger baskets;
specialty rolled steel, cast iron boilers,

and plastics and chemicals :mad::( - which goes to show that "local" doesn't necessarily mean "desirable."

[arielmoon]

Such great points here! I really love the input.

Sadly, it's almost like you have to thoroughly research a company before you buy something! Where items were made, the conditions they were made in, where the money goes afterward...

To make it more challenging, I am vegan and I try not to support companies that do or support animal testing.

[Running Mommy]

Greenfield kickstands- still made in the USA. As are wald baskets I believe.. (may be wrong??, I'm brain fuzzy this am)
We are ALWAYS looking at our shop! That's always our goal.
We carry Krieg bags, and I thought they were made here, but alas they are now made in the Phillipines... sigh...
I think Canari is made in so cal as well now that I think about it. And they are cheaper than Sugoi product..

[NbyNW]

Bmccasland, That's because small local sign shop doesn't have funds for a TV ad in much the same way as your LBS or even bikes themselves don't have those kind of funds. ;)

NbyNW, which sourdough? This is one I like:
http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace.com/acme_bread_company.php

I was just thinking about the ubiquitous sourdough that you might get in any deli or restaurant . . . not really sure where it all came from!

Acme looks amazing! I seem to recall the ferry building was under renovation when I lived there, and I don't think I ever made it up to the Berkeley location. We usually ended up at Zachary's for pizza when we went up there.

[tulip]

I really like consignment shops. I've gotten some fabulous mid-century modern furniture pieces for my house. The two dressers were made in the USA (stamped on the drawers); one was made here in Virginia. But buying perfectly good things from a consignment shop is a good way to go for alot of things.

Alot of my clothes are from a really wonderful consignment shop. High-end, high-quality, lightly used clothes. No one notices, and I get lots of compliments on my Dolce and Gabana pencil skirt ($20, looks like it had never been worn).

My bikes were made in New Mexico, Oregon, and Taiwan. None are from consignment shops, but all are from either the builder or a local bike shop.

Local things made in my area:
my kitchen cabinets
my concrete countertops
produce from the farmer's market
my homemade bread (the flour is from Virginia, but I have no idea where the yeast comes from)
Fralin Pickups (for guitars)
Some Ikea furniture products (they opened a factory in Danville, Virginia I heard)

Do what you can, don't sweat the rest.

[GLC1968]

I think the Intel chips are made/designed in the USA - anyone know for sure?


Not exclusively. And electronics are a very good example of how global our economy has become.

Take an example from my company - we make some WLAN power amplifiers for Intel that go into their cards that are used in laptops made by other companies. Our tiny little PA's are designed in the US. The wafers that our die are made of are sourced sometimes in the US and sometimes overseas (often european companies). The wafers come here to Oregon where we fabricate those wafers into electronic die. The die then get shipped to other locations (Malaysia, China, Korea, etc) to get bonded and molded into tiny packaged parts (the size of mini chocolate chip). Those packaged parts then get shipped to other locations to be tested and sealed into reels (sometimes those locations are right back in the US). Then the reels get shipped to the companies that make the boards (or mini cards) for Intel - often in places such as Isreal, India or China. Then, from there...they go somewhere else to get assembled into laptops and other such user end goods.

So to say that any electronic device is made in any single country is 100% misleading. Even if you were to build your own electronic device of some sort in your own private ham radio shop in your basement...90% of the parts you'd need would be fabricated at multiple locations around the world.

I work for a manufacturer where we employ thousands of US citizens here in Oregon, in Texas, in Florida, in CA and in Massachusetts...and yet not a single product we make is EVER labeled 'made in the USA'. Think about that for a minute.

Take what you buy and how it is labled with a grain of salt. Be as educated as you can about the choices you make but recognize that we live in a global economy and nothing short of a massive world catastrophy is going to change that anytime soon.

[NbyNW]

Thanks GLC! I had an inkling it was a process involving many entities, but couldn't really speak to it.

[Trek420]

I think Canari is made in so cal as well now that I think about it. And they are cheaper than Sugoi product..

Lots of it right here:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/canari/product/c0-b100023.html

Thanks RM :cool:


Local things made in my area:
my kitchen cabinets

My cabinets were made by a local company but like many things the wood, fittings, materials could be from all over. But it was part of my decision that they be local. This morning amoung the snippets I caught on NPR news was a sad figure about food pantries in the US, that 1 out of 8 in the US have needed help from a food pantry this year. :(

I'll always get items from whever I feel is best for a number of reasons; price, quality, aesthetics .... but I try to be a local'varian where I can.

[Susan Otcenas]

Terry was sold at the end of last year. MOst (if not all) production is moving to Asia. Saddles included.

I should clarify this a little. A majority interest in the company was sold. The company relocated to Vermont (where the new majority owner lives) and some of the employees, though not all, relocated there as well.

If anyone is interested in reading about the same, the industry magazine Bicycle Retailer and Industry News did a few articles on the topic.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/2678.html

and this is an article about their bike distribution agreement with with ASI.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/3204.html

BTW, my inside sales person at Terry tells me that only some of the saddles are moving to Asia production. And that their apparel will still be largely built in the US. Most of our vendors outsource things like gloves and outerwear to Asia. I looked back at some of their apparel for 2009. Shorts & Tights were USA. Skorts/skirts were Honduras. Jerseys were USA. Gloves were Italy/Pakistan.

Hope that helps!

Susan

[redrhodie]

I love my Frye engineer boots, which are still made in the USA.

[Trek420]

I love my Frye engineer boots, which are still made in the USA.

Ooooh, boots :p

http://www.thefryecompany.com/Default.aspx

and with boots you need jeans :cool:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=23285

[Grog]

I want my neighbors to have/keep their jobs too.

The government can not say "let's buy made in the good 'ol USA" or anywhere else if you live somewhere else. If they were to do so everyone screams "protectionism :mad: bad :mad: bad". But we can! :D :) :D I think we all agree wherever you are and whether you're blue, red, green or chartreuse that we need to keep jobs in the US or wherever we all are.


The hard geopolitical reality is that the reason why the American government can't say "let's buy Made in the USA" is because it pretty much imposes the same on others. A LOT of jobs in the USA depend on the export of American products and services in higher value-added areas (complex services, technological products, etc. not consumer goods). Americans disproportionately benefit from the anti-protectionist agreements they have signed with other countries, NAFTA for example. These countries don't necessarily prevent the American government from acting in a protectionist way: if an international court rules against the USA, they can simply ignore the ruling. Power is not distributed evenly on this planet.

Coming from a minority standpoint (Quebec, a French-language island in a very loudly English-speaking part of the world), I know that protecting certain areas for social, political, or cultural reasons has become extremely difficult. This is not so much a problem in the USA, but it is in other countries whose local industry cannot resist the massive investments and sometimes dumping of American products. The scale just can't compare.

As Susan pointed out, we can ask people to "Buy American" (or "Buy Canadian") all we want, most still won't. People would rather have more purchasing power than supporting local business. The fact that the real salaries of the middle class have not really increased in the last few years certainly does not help, to say nothing of those of the poor! On the other hand, I also know that people want their pension savings to increase in value, thus they want the corporations whose shares they own to make profits and distribute dividends. So corporations do what they have to do to attain that goal, including localizing their production where labour is cheap and regulation lax.

I do not necessarily agree (although I think it's not black and white) but I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

[crazycanuck]

I recommend some of the Oxfam shop stuff...

Should you want a soccer ball or netball that's not made with slave labour...
http://www.oxfamshop.org.au/products/3123569/81615

The Oxfam shop I frequent sells shoes(not made in a factory w slave labour) but can't find them on the website.

Just a thought.

[KnottedYet]

The Oxfam shop I frequent sells shoes(not made in a factory w slave labour) but can't find them on the website.

Just a thought.

Also in the shoe mix:
Adbuster's "Blackspot" fair-trade shoes. Vegan, etc. Boots (designed by Fluevog) and sneakers: https://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/blackspot

ETA: nowhere on the Frye website can I find any info about where their boots and shoes are made. Just a listing of the countries where they have employees (China, Mexico, US, etc.) If someone finds it, can you give me The Great Computer Illiterate Knot, a link?

ETA #2: Red Wing boots and shoes are made in Red Wing, Minnesota; but there's no info about where their off-shoot brands are made. http://www.redwingshoes.com/

ETA #3: Just looked through my shoes to see where they are made. (I'm home with a cold, and coughing too much to sleep, so I'm counting shoes... ooh, I know how to have fun!) 3 pair made in Portugal, 1 pair made in Thailand, 3 pair made in USA, 5 pair made in China, 1 pair made in Germany, 1 pair made in Italy.

[VeloVT]

you just made me curious about Frye. I checked inside my Frye harness boots and they do indeed have "made in the USA" stamped in them. Don't know if all their shoes are made here, but mine are.

[tulip]

Speaking of Quebec, my favorite panniers and cycling bags are made in Quebec at Arkel. Great stuff. www.arkel-od.com

[KnottedYet]

I love my Frye engineer boots, which are still made in the USA.

Are these what you have? http://www.thefryecompany.com/Product-Women-Boots-Short%20Shaft-77500BLK.aspx

I like these... and resole-able! And made in the USA. Hmmmmmm...

How many pairs of shoes does a person need? Is it like bikes, where the optimum quantity is "N + 1" where "N" is the number currently owned?

These are cool, too, and made in Minnesota: http://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1078 Steel toes.

[shootingstar]

Another great place to buy stuff that is fair trade, no slave labour, some interesting stuff and money gets ploughed back into the local community:

Ten Thousand Villages
http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/

http://www.tenthousandvillages.ca/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=pageAboutUs1&type=store Did you know they are Mennonite-based?

About 15 yrs. ago, yes I went with a friend to the Canadian national warehouse headquarters. She knew some people there. Located in Mennonite country just outside of Kitchener-Waterloo. At that time, the number of stores was still pretty small.

Now totally different...obviously a signal that there are alot more customers that truly want to buy from employers with ethical business practices/fair treatment of employees.

Note: When I said that I invested in Canadian companies..I meant buying their stock. Preferably stocks that provide dividends.

[OakLeaf]

Anyone got any suggestions for duck feet?

In athletic shoes, the only ones I've been able to find that even vaguely fit are Mizuno (and they've now discontinued my favorite shoe in Wide) - all made in China. I might give New Balance another try next round, that is, assuming I'm not ready for barefoot by then, which is a safe assumption.:cool:

In boots, I can't even begin to wear Red Wing (I even had a Red Wing salesman tell me that). I won't be in the market for boots any time soon since I just bought a pair of Lowa boots last year - not a great fit, but at least they stay on my feet and I can walk in them - partly because the salesguy told me they were made in Germany. Trusted him, didn't look at the label, got home and found they're made in Eastern Europe someplace, I forget where. :(:mad: They closed the Rocky Boot factory down the road from me several years ago, although they kept a retail outlet selling their made in China junk. :( Not that I could ever wear Rocky either, but still.

[KnottedYet]

My duck feet do well in Keen (China) Chaco (was USA, now China) Birkenstock (Germany) Ariat (China) and some Doc Marten (Thailand and Britain). Oh, and I forgot my hiking boots, which are Technica (Italy).

[OakLeaf]

Thanks Knot! I don't know why I've never tried on Doc Martens.

[redrhodie]

Yes Knot, those are the ones I have. They get better and better with every day of wear. If you click on any shoe on the Frye website, it will either have a "made in the USA" tag or not. Most don't, so I'm assuming those are made elsewhere. The engineers, the loggers, the harness boots and probably some of the western boots are still made here, but not much else. If the campus boots were, they'd be on my feet right now. :rolleyes: That's such a dangerous website.

I got a pair of USA made New Balance last year, and at that time, there were only a few styles still made here. The ones I got are actually rather ugly, but at that point, I was really trying to buy only American. But, I just searched Zappos with "Made in USA" in the search box, and 23 styles of women's New Balance came up, and some were cute!

[OakLeaf]

And just while we were talking about this: Adbusters' 3/50 campaign (https://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/actions/350-project.html).
Choose three local businesses you can't bear to see go under. Spend $50 a month between the three and help keep their doors open. As long as at least one of the businesses is selling day-to-day necessities like food or hardware, $50 a month is do-able for most people.

My challenge: choose businesses besides my favorite local restaurants. :rolleyes:

[smilingcat]

farmers market for 3/50 challange. Be a localvore!!

[Trek420]

My challenge: choose businesses besides my favorite local restaurants. :rolleyes:

And what's wrong with that? ;)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Much of the honey sold in large box stores and supermarket chains is labeled as "Product of Malaysia/Argentina/India/Taiwan", etc etc. In actuality it likely contains honey from China and has been resold /laundered through these other countries to avoid paying U.S. duty taxes on imported Chinese honey. The trouble is that randomly tested honey from China has been found to contain unacceptable amounts of antibiotics, pesticides, and is sometimes adulterated with corn syrup to increase profits. Read the labels in your local supermarket and you'll see such honey being sold. Um,...Taiwan, Malaysia and Indonesia don't even HAVE commercial honey industries, yet they are exporting millions of pounds of honey yearly to the US, labeled as "product of..." their country.
http://home.ezezine.com/1636/1636-2010.02.02.12.53.archive.html

Buy your honey produced by a local beekeeper/apiary in or near your community. Find out which natural food stores and farm stands/orchards sell honey from your area, make it your business to know where your honey came from, and support your local beekeepers. Help keep them from being put out of business by cheap contaminated Chinese honey laundered internationally by greedy distributors.

[Susan Otcenas]

Buy your honey produce by a local beekeeper/apiary in or near your community.

A couple years ago, Jeff's dad let a local beekeeper set up hives on his farm. That Christmas, we each received a HUGE bucket of honey. Honey lasts for ever. We still have honey from that wonderful gift!

[KnottedYet]

Um,...Taiwan, Malaysia and Indonesia don't even HAVE commercial honey industries, yet they are exporting millions of pounds of honey yearly to the US, labeled as "product of..." their country.


Now THAT'S scary!

I just checked my bottle of honey. It says "Pacific Northwest Clover Honey" and the ingredient is "US Grade A Honey." From Eugene, Oregon. That's 5 hours away, but local enough for me. www.glorybeehoney.com

My last batch of honey was from a different store, and they were having a special on local Washington honey so I bought a big tub.

My Great-Grandpa swore that if you ate a tablespoon of local honey a day you would stay good and healthy. I'm gonna be careful about my honey from now on.

[NbyNW]

The Seattle PI did an excellent feature on the honey laundering problem a couple of years ago:

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/394053_honey30.asp

[Trek420]

Another reason to buy local honey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

Bees feed the farms, farms feed you, repeat as needed. Yet another good reason to buy local and organic whenever you can, can afford to. :cool:

I keep trying to come up with 3 for the 3/50 challenge and it's always food :p or 1/50 and make it my favorite new/used/independent local bookstore. :)

[Juiceflight]

Try Boure cycling clothing. It's made in Durango, Co by Ned Overend and co. Nice stuff!

[OakLeaf]

What I'm really bad about is ordering parts through the bike shops closest to me, when I can drive another 25 miles and have them now. Stuff like cleats, cassettes, chains. I make an excuse that it's still a "local" bike shop (even though they have three locations and an online presence). But... my communities are pretty depressed. The city where the bigger shop is located, not so much. I'll try to do better this year. :o

[bmccasland]

I have selection of honey in my cupboard, I could do a taste test: desert honey from Tucson, mountain honey from Flagstaff, north shore Lake Pontchartrain honey, Baton Rouge honey, and there's one other one.... or maybe two... some is privately produced; some commercial, but small batch commercial.
Then there's this canning jar of really dark stuff on my counter, it's honey, it's old.... survivied a hurricane or two in a camp before it was brought to the safety of the office.

[KnottedYet]

What I'm really bad about is ordering parts through the bike shops closest to me, when I can drive another 25 miles and have them now. Stuff like cleats, cassettes, chains. I make an excuse that it's still a "local" bike shop (even though they have three locations and an online presence). But... my communities are pretty depressed. The city where the bigger shop is located, not so much. I'll try to do better this year. :o

I do something similar: I find what I want online, then go to my LBS and buy it or ask them to order it for me if they don't have it. I did ask if they still make a profit on special orders, and they said they do.

If I find clothes online or in a catalog that I like, I check TE for them first. (the clothes I wore for my wedding were from TE!) (oh, and so were the clothes I wore when we got engaged and went ring shopping) (and so was the bike gear I was wearing when we rode our bikes to the courthouse to get our marriage license!)

[Susan Otcenas]

If I find clothes online or in a catalog that I like, I check TE for them first. (the clothes I wore for my wedding were from TE!) (oh, and so were the clothes I wore when we got engaged and went ring shopping) (and so was the bike gear I was wearing when we rode our bikes to the courthouse to get our marriage license!)

I can't begin to describe how incredibly honored and humble and thrilled and and and ...wow, those words don't even come close to describing the emotion I feel when I read this. Thank you.

I know we aren't "local" for many of you. But we are just a small business of 10 people trying to do our very best for our customers, our sport(s) and our community. I'm so honored that all of you have made us a part of your lives.

Susan

[KnottedYet]

Shebeest. Appropriate for a wide assortment of occaisions. I'm just sayin'... ;)
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=23809&highlight=review+shebeest
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=23632&highlight=review+shebeest

[deeaimond]

the honey stuff is scary..... I'd never thought... I guess now if I want to buy honey it'll have to be the $40 a jar stuff from new zealand...

[kjay]

This doesn't apply to biking clothes, but recently my hubby and I decided to no longer buy stuff made in China. Our coffeemaker recently went kaput, so we spent about four hours looking for one not made in China. Finally, one of the sales gals told me her sister found one on the Internet, a handmade coffeemaker made in Holland. Where there's a will there's a way, so they say. :)

[crazycanuck]

As far as I know...We can't purchase any overseas honey @ supermarkets in Aust. nor can we recieve any from overseas...

[Tuckervill]

I was curious and out of honey today, so I checked all the bottles in Wal-Mart, and every one of them had a state of origin on them--mostly Texas and Georgia. Produce of USA, too. There was even a bottle of "sugar free imitation honey". :eek: I can't imagine what it is made of. I didn't look. lol.

(By the way, WM is the only national or "brand name" grocery in my area. A small regional chain has bought out the IGA and is moving in. My brother happens to run all the bakeries for the chain and it appears someone over there finally heard my constant complaining about nothing but WM in my town!)

Karen

[Trek420]

Our coffeemaker recently went kaput, so we spent about four hours looking for one not made in China. Finally, one of the sales gals told me her sister found one on the Internet, a handmade coffeemaker made in Holland. Where there's a will there's a way, so they say. :)

I can not vouch for every single item but here's an online store that makes it easier to search:

http://www.stacksandstacks.com/landing-page/made-in-usa/index.html

[Trek420]

(By the way, WM is the only national or "brand name" grocery in my area. A small regional chain has bought out the IGA and is moving in. My brother happens to run all the bakeries for the chain and it appears someone over there finally heard my constant complaining about nothing but WM in my town!)

Karen

There's a large'ish chain a few blocks from my house but we just found it depressing somehow. It's not just the obscenely huge bulk quantities of junk food but their choice of music runs towards "I'm sad, I wanna eat". :rolleyes:

Lots of "all by myself, don't wanna be all by myself anymore ...." :o songs like that. :rolleyes: ;)

Maybe that's a marketing plan :rolleyes:

I much prefer a small Mexican market a little further away. It's family run, they have a few of these so it's like a mini-chain here. It's more of a limited selection but right smack dab off my commute. They have good meat and produce and yes, they label the origination of the produce.

Music's much cheerier too. :cool: And yes, they have bike racks.

Other than that TJ's or ..... right now I'm off to the farm market. :D Simmering in the crockpot is a chicken carcass from Costco, I just got a mirepoix of celery, carrots, onion and whatever else seems good in it. It's soup weather.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

There was even a bottle of "sugar free imitation honey". :eek: I can't imagine what it is made of. I didn't look. lol.

If it's like this:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii244/VintageRifle/ImitationHoneyFront.jpg
Then its ingredients would be something like this:
Maltitol syrup, natural and artificial flavor, acesulfame k, malic acid.

Exactly what I want in my tea! (not)
Just eeeeewwwww.

[shootingstar]

As far as I know...We can't purchase any overseas honey @ supermarkets in Aust. nor can we recieve any from overseas...

Interesting, CC.

Getting back to bikes, looks like some bike assembly models are more of a global effort. See 2nd last paragraph here (http://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/critical-mass-the-dutch-way/) for the Dutch bikes that are on loan for public use during the Olympics.

[crazycanuck]

Shootingstar...here are two links that i'm sure you'll love..

http://www.daff.gov.au/aqis

http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/index.htm

[Tuckervill]

Lisa, that was it, exactly! ewwww.

Karen

[OakLeaf]

and more:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/09/china-farms-pollution