Downhill fear

[Soleil6]

hello..

I wanted to see if anyone else is scared like I am and perhaps could share their experience on how they conquered that.

Mine is a bit unusual. I used to be fine. Then over the years got worse. I got the "speed wobble" a few times, now I descend on the break at 11mph with one foot unclipped. Sometimes I stop. I panic, freeze and freak. I am miserable, love riding but this has definitely made cycling much less enjoyable, forget going on a group ride too.

any advice is appreciated.

[shootingstar]

What is the width of your tires? Perhaps try slightly wider tires with a slightly rougher profile...which I always have had. I don't have super skinnies nor slicks. I never have and probably never will.

Presumably you have checked to make sure your wheels are trued. That can cause wobble. I discovered one of my wheels should be trued...soon.

As for being unclipped with 1 shoe, if you it makes you feel more confident, then do it.

What are you like when hiking along steep hills/mountainsides or walking across bridges/elevated walkways? Has that become worse? Do you have a fear of heights.

I'm not as slow as you going down a hill but then I don't have dropped handlebars. I do have a fear of heights where I find it more difficult to walk along narrow trails without any barrier along mountainsides, etc. Going down a spiral staircase inside a lighthouse which has no rail..just the wall to touch..was hard. My leg muscles were so sore by the time I got to the bottom. Probably I was trying to walk and control my fear.

Cycling is different, because to me, there's greater control with brakes.

[bacarver]

This anxiety/fear thing when descending sure takes the fun out of riding. I went through this during the summer. Not sure why but I think a couple very windy days contributed. I was almost knocked off the bike by strong gusts and I got scared. This somehow transferred to being afraid I would fall when descending at 30mph or so. I have typically been fearless when going downhill and love the rush and the feeling of total abandon.
Out of the blue, I found myself dreading downhills and started using the brake every few seconds.
I checked my position on the bike and realized I was doing some things that made the problem worse. I was grabbing the handlebars so tightly that it caused the front wheel to shake. I was imagining crashing instead of enjoying my ride. My entire body was tense. I was looking down instead of looking ahead.
I made my arms and hands relax. I reminded myself that I have ridden downhill with confidence in the past. I got my body to move with the bike. I discovered that bouncing gently distracts me from locking up. I raised my head up to get my eyes off the pavement beneath me.
I still have occasional problems, but I don't beat myself up.
The moment of fear is so convincingly real that everything seems to close in. But, much of this is the mind's interpretation. Ride down a short hill and practice mastering the skills. Good luck!
Barb

[lph]

"Bouncing" is a good idea, keeps your body loose but attentive. Ready for anything, like a cat.

I don't have much fear on a bike, but I recognize the feeling from other sports. Another mind trick to accept and overcome fear is to try to get into the mindset where you *like* speed - tell yourself (even at low speeds) "whee! I love this! I love flying downhill! I'm superwoman! I'm <insert favourite sports hero> ;)" It helps to sense and feel this enjoyment while you're still in full control, to get to that point of wanting to go a bit faster and test yourself just a little bit. You want that positive, daring feeling to counteract whatever old fears are holding you back.

[Bike Chick]

I had a very similar fear after I crashed doing 40 mph on a mountain descent. I left the road on the 3rd switchback and hit a rock. The bike stopped and I kept going:eek: It was a long time before I could do a descent of any kind without my heart racing and my throat tightening. The anxiety was paralyzing.

I just took it slow. I took deep breaths, made myself relax and kept making myself do downhills until I got my confidence back. I don't descend with the wild abandon I used to and am much more cautious but I've got my downhill legs back.

Just try to relax and keep practicing doing downhills until you gain some confidence. If you are more comfortable keeping one foot unclipped, then do so but try to work toward staying clipped in. My best advice is to sit back in the saddle, trying to keep more of your weight on the back wheel, break with your back brakes, not your front, stay down in the drops, pinch the top tube with your knees, and just keep practicing. Also make sure your bike fits your correctly. If you are riding a bike that doesn't fit you, you can really feel out of control on a downhill.

Good luck!

[OakLeaf]

I'm too fearless on descents on the bici :rolleyes:, but I can totally relate to your post, because a couple of years ago I completely lost my confidence on low-speed maneuvers on the motorcycle, and as you say, it's really taken all the fun out of riding. :(

I'm not sure of the solution, either. I know intellectually what's going on, I'm panicking, freezing up, looking at the ground and tightening up my muscles - when what I need to do is be loose and look up - but it's the panicking part that's hard to conquer. "Practice" isn't necessarily the solution for me either, since it just tends to reinforce frustration and fear.

I guess the one difference is that in low-speed maneuvering, if you panic, freeze and look at the ground, you WILL fall... whereas descending, you can control your speed with your brakes to a level you're comfortable with. I guess that's what I'd try in your position - work on the self-talk, pick your eyes up, look where you want to go, forearms loose, shoulders loose, weight in your quads rather than hard on the saddle; on the curves, inside foot up, outside foot weighted, still remembering to look where you want to go; and just every time down your nemesis hill, go one mile an hour faster.

Definitely DON'T unclip... right there you're losing a lot of control over your bike. And remember that you DON'T have to hit 50 mph if you don't want to! :)


ETA: I will say that riding a moto is the main reason I'm so comfortable descending on the bici - because it's all about looking where you want to go and being comfortable with the speed. Short version is that I burned out on the bici, rode a moto for 12 years, then came back to bicycling and my very first day back on a road bike I was descending gleefully at speeds that used to terrify me when I was racing. I wonder if you're being sloppy with your eyes when you drive your car? Maybe that would be an exercise you could do without panic... practicing your awareness skills when you drive the car? When you know how to look where you need to look when you're going 70 mph (or faster :rolleyes:), 50 doesn't seem so scary even if you're not wearing leather.

[tctrek]

You may want to try to practice on some smaller descents. Although I have always loved the fast descents, I actually had a class in descending from Carmichael Training that taught me a technique that is safer and repeatable. One thing I learned is that if I have better access and light control of the brakes when I am in the drops. I can lightly feather my brakes while descending so that I don't slow down to a crawl, but also I can have better control of the descent. Sitting back on the seat, relaxing upper body and feet firmly planted (definitely both feet clipped in!).

[Becky]

You may want to try to practice on some smaller descents.

+1. This is how I worked on my fear of descending on the mountain bike. DH and I found a moderately steep hill with long straight run outs in a couple of directions, and I rode that darn thing at least 20 times, working to stay off the brakes and just roll until the ground leveled out. When that felt ok, I started turning at the bottom and trusting the tires as I rolled through the turns. I'm still a little timid on descents, but I'm much better than I was.

Interestingly enough, wearing contacts has improved my descending as well. My vision isn't awful (I can legally drive without correction), but with correction, I can see clearly further away and I think that makes me more comfortable, especially at speed.

Good luck!

[Biciclista]

I am your basic timid rider. The key to getting over timidity is repetition.
so i go down a hill at 15 mph.. next time i let go of the wheels just a second, maybe i'll get up to 16 or 17. i build over time. I NEVER go really really fast, my top speed is in the 30's on my bike.

On the other hand, you are reacting like you are phobic. It could be much worse than my simple timidity. You might need to talk to a counselor about this.My mother is phobic and is so terrified of some things that it is debilitating.
Try our suggestions, but you might need professional help.
and welcome to TE!

[Soleil6]

[QUOTE=shootingstar;479888]"What is the width of your tires? "

First of all I want to say thank you for the responses. i didn't expect this, it's great:-)

I just got a Trek WSD bike, hoping that a women specific bike would really help me. I have never riddden a road bike before, I have always been on a tri bike. I am actually more comfortable riding the tri bike because thats all I know. But I want to give this trek a nice try. I have a zillion bikes, and I don't think the wobble is bike specific, more user specific.

"What are you like when hiking along steep hills/mountainsides or walking across bridges/elevated walkways? Has that become worse? Do you have a fear of heights."

You have a good point. I am find climbing but yes, I have fear of heights. Not terrible but definetly there. i also have issues driving so the ones that brought phobia and professionnal help I think there is something there. I am getting help but not sure it's helping.

The idea of finding a small hill is great. years ago I used to have someone do this and drive me up weekly. That did help. I just can't seem to find anyone that can help, but i need to get back to this, good idea.

[Soleil6]

I discovered that bouncing gently distracts me from locking up. I raised my head up to get my eyes off the pavement beneath me.
I
Barb

Thanks Barb:-) What do you mean by "bouncing?"

[Soleil6]

Just try to relax and keep practicing doing downhills until you gain some confidence. If you are more comfortable keeping one foot unclipped, then do so but try to work toward staying clipped in. My best advice is to sit back in the saddle, trying to keep more of your weight on the back wheel, break with your back brakes, not your front, stay down in the drops, pinch the top tube with your knees, and just keep practicing. Also make sure your bike fits your correctly. If you are riding a bike that doesn't fit you, you can really feel out of control on a downhill.

Good luck!

I tend to have one hand in the hoods and one hand in the drops. Do you feel more "secure" in the drops?

[Soleil6]

I actually had a class in descending from Carmichael Training that taught me a technique that is safer and repeatable. .

Do they still offer classes on descending? that sounds great!

[Soleil6]

Try our suggestions, but you might need professional help.
and welcome to TE!

Thanks! I find this site already very firendly and welcoming:-)

[Zen]

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=22805&highlight=Downhill+Weenie

It's worth a look.

[bacarver]

I don't know how I thought to try this, but it helps distract me from my body's urge to become one tight muscle when I'm riding downhill. It's similar to the technique that equestrians use during shows.
I don't actually "bounce". Rather, I just raise my body up a slight bit and then back down. Then I continue my downhill for a beat and then repeat the up and down. I continue to do this till I reach the bottom of the hill. This lessens my focus on the paralyzing fear.
Anyone watching me wouldn't even notice. The fear is initiated by the mind and transfers to the body. This simple activity works for me. Otherwise, I'm thinking only about crashing and losing skin. I had a horrible wreck in 2005 and I know how much it hurts. I still have good days and bad days with descending, but I can decrease the panic to a tolerable level so I can enjoy my rides.
Hope this helps. Barb

[shootingstar]

"What are you like when hiking along steep hills/mountainsides or walking across bridges/elevated walkways? Has that become worse? Do you have a fear of heights."

You have a good point. I am find climbing but yes, I have fear of heights. Not terrible but definetly there. i also have issues driving so the ones that brought phobia and professionnal help I think there is something there. I am getting help but not sure it's helping.

The idea of finding a small hill is great. years ago I used to have someone do this and drive me up weekly. That did help. I just can't seem to find anyone that can help, but i need to get back to this, good idea.

Great that you got lots of good advice so far.
I didn't know about my fear of heights until my mid 20's when I went hiking in Greece along some of the paths hugging the cliffs. It surprised me.

ie. a problem for me: high trestle bridges with wide gaps between the floor slats and if the bridge has no barriers/rails when cycling or walking over it.

I just simply need a high enough barrier. THis is applicable for road bridges which may have barrier that is not high enough.

I am not the person leaning much over our home highrise balcony. We live over 30+ stories high.

[OakLeaf]

Sounds like maybe you're like me, shootingstar. I'm not afraid of heights at all, but I have a phobia of falling. I can be in sheer terror climbing the open staircase to the top of the lighthouse, then happily sightsee off the rail at the top. Airplanes, roof of the Rockefeller Center, no problem; climbing 4-foot rocks, big problem.

I've been able to reprogram my head to believe that a ladder is a safe place, which sure makes it easier to do all kinds of work; but apparently the lesson only applies to ladders. :p

[Pedal Wench]

Sounds like maybe you're like me, shootingstar. I'm not afraid of heights at all, but I have a phobia of falling. I can be in sheer terror climbing the open staircase to the top of the lighthouse, then happily sightsee off the rail at the top. Airplanes, roof of the Rockefeller Center, no problem; climbing 4-foot rocks, big problem.

I've been able to reprogram my head to believe that a ladder is a safe place, which sure makes it easier to do all kinds of work; but apparently the lesson only applies to ladders. :p

Me too! Hang off the guard rails at the Grand Canyon, and whimper at open-grate staircases. Can't seem to mtb over even the smallest bridge without diving off the edge. And, it's usually only climbing down things -- scampered to the top of the pyramids in Mexico, and spent two hours trying to get back down. :(:o

[featuretile]

I definitely go downhill slower than most of the people in my group. We have some pretty steep hills and I don't see why it is necessary to go so fast that I feel unsafe. The only time I really rip down a hill is on rollers when I see a big hill that I am going to have to climb, and I want to get as far up as possible. Besides, I know the hill is going to slow me down.

I have noticed that as I continue to improve my riding, I am comfortable going downhill a little faster than I used to. So, just gradually increase the downhill speed in increments when it feels ok. Don't try to make it a mental block or force yourself to do something that would be unsafe for you. Everyone's comfort level is different. It would be way worse to hurt yourself and be unable to ride. Anything under 20 mph feels fine now. Anything over 28 mph is downright scary (for me). I catch up in the flats and uphill.

[shootingstar]

Me too! Hang off the guard rails at the Grand Canyon, and whimper at open-grate staircases. Can't seem to mtb over even the smallest bridge without diving off the edge. And, it's usually only climbing down things -- scampered to the top of the pyramids in Mexico, and spent two hours trying to get back down. :(:o

I doubt I could do the pyramids' steep high steps without a rail. And going down..I can see myself crawling down..like a baby.

Featuretile- Agree, that we shouldn't spend oodles of time beating ourselves up because it's somehow incompetent or wimpish not to be zipping down a descent at 50+ kms. per hr. If we're not competing in racing in a competition..

After descending long hills and accidentally hitting potholes, gravel patches, black ice patches, I'm still learning my limits. But going fast enough to make it easier for me to mount the next hill ahead. One, just hopes there isn't a red traffic light halfway up on the ascent or a car cutting into right hand lane.

Now what should I be prouder of for myself...plunging down long descents at 50 kms./hr. (did once, and the bike started to shake on a smooth rd.) or still cycling regularily for nearly the past 18 yrs.?

[Crankin]

Ha, Pedal Wench, I climbed up the pyramid at Chiken Itza (sp) when I was senior in HS. I also spent about 1-2 hours going down *on my rear end,* because I could not stand up on those steps! I have to hold on to a railing going down any steps. I go down a very steep escalator twice a week at the train station. I hold on for dear life. Sometimes, I walk down the moving escalator, but I have to look down at the steps and hold on.
My fear of downhills is becoming more like panic as the years go on. I can get up to about 25, but if there's curves, forget it. My natural inclination is to put the brakes on. At one point, I got close to 35 mph on a downhill a couple of years ago, but it's weird. I often start out the season going faster. Then as the the months go on, the fear becomes more pronounced.
My bike fits and I can comfortably reach the brakes in the drops. But I feel like I have no control when I descend in the drops and often have to slow way down just to feel OK with it. I have no problem riding in the drops on the flats, in a headwind, etc. So, pretty much I just deal with it. The only time it bothers me is when I am on a group ride and that isn't very often.
I catch all of them on the uphills...

[HillSlugger]

Not sure if it was already mentioned, but try keeping one knee on the top tube, or clamp it between both knees, to keep the bike from shimmying.

I happen to love fast descents, but when I'm on one I don't know well and can't see exactly what the road is doing I have to remind myself to relax my upper body and keep my elbows loose and bent. I'll also gently scrub off some speed by applying light pressure on and off with the brakes.

[kimikaw]

Glad I'm not the only one. I'm ok on downhills (at 25moh or under) but discovered over the weekend that I'm not so okay riding across a high bridge. Hubby and I rode the Natchez Trace last Friday, and had to cross what felt like a 300 foot high bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natchez_Trace_Parkway_Bridge) (in actuality 155 feet above the road below).

Going out I was maybe 1/3 - 1/2 of the way into the car lane, despite a wide shoulder. Just kept looking at the rail and thinking if I fell, I'd tumble over the side. The return was worse. Pretty significant descent from that side heading into the bridge.A pretty good crosswind had blown up. I was convinced the wond was going to pick me up and toss me off the bike at any moment. Rode almost to center of road, just could not force myself over. Unsure what i would have done if a car came up behind. Realize now that my death gripe on the bars didn't help.

Stopped on other side and took these pictures. And found out hubby was equally freaked by the crosswind (he was behind me, so don't know his line across).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0ofw2LzZA7Y/SxcQcr_cXaI/AAAAAAAAEgU/rjLVMQgv9A0/s288/Thanksgiving%202009%20032.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_0ofw2LzZA7Y/SxcQgOIajDI/AAAAAAAAEgk/UG544xrF8_Q/s288/Thanksgiving%202009%20036.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_0ofw2LzZA7Y/SxcQhKXGmGI/AAAAAAAAEgo/5KbvWMuf5ts/s288/Thanksgiving%202009%20037.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_0ofw2LzZA7Y/SxcQjzoHx1I/AAAAAAAAEgw/LPWvEeySF48/s288/Thanksgiving%202009%20039.jpg

[Bike Chick]

[QUOTE=shootingstar;480121]ie. a problem for me: high trestle bridges with wide gaps between the floor slats and if the bridge has no barriers/rails when cycling or walking over it.[QUOTE]

Who wouldn't freak out crossing that?:eek:

[Ritamarie]

try keeping one knee on the top tube, or clamp it between both knees, to keep the bike from shimmying.
.

Isn't something wrong with your bike if it is shimmying? I've regularly gone over 40 mph downhill on my road bike and have never had it shimmy. I'm not super brave on downhills either, mostly because I am afraid of wildlife running out around here (I almost got run over by a deer the other day!) or I imagine blowing a tire mid-descent, but I never worry about losing control of my bike due to it behaving unpredictably. I save that worry for when I'm on my horse. ;)

[Crankin]

It's not so much that my bike is shimmying. It's that I find it hard to follow the road at high speed. Like, I have to fight not to end up on the wrong side of the road. Yes, I keep my leg down, press against the top tube and try to look where I am going. It's that the feel of everything is different when descending at speed. I start shaking and that's it... I might add that this problem is mostly when I have to turn/curve right. I am much more comfortable with left hand curves.
Pretty sure that this has something to do with my astigmatism that is not corrected. I also feel awkward just turning right.
Mostly, you wouldn't this if you saw me ride; you would just think I was a very slow descender.

[OakLeaf]

It's really common to have an easier time turning one direction than the other. I suppose there's more discussion of it on the moto boards just because most beginning bicyclists don't spend a lot of time thinking about handling techniques?

Tight turns to the right are much harder for me, too. I attribute a lot of it to vision as well. But crowned roads can make right turns really tough, too, which can set you up for a loss of confidence that gives you trouble even on flat surfaces.

[Crankin]

Yea, I really got to know the crowned road phenomena this summer in Camden, Maine. I felt like I was sliding off the road the whole time. But, my DH noticed it too. The difference is, that it doesn't bother him.

[Dogmama]

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=22805&highlight=Downhill+Weenie

It's worth a look.

Zen should be crowned, "the TE librarian!"

Me too - hate downhills. Nope, don't need medical help*, not phobic. I'm afraid of heights and it translates into riding As somebody said, I'm OK if I'm on rolling hills but going downhill off of Mt. Lemmon - not a happy camper. I'd rather go up. My bike doesn't shimmy, rock or roll. Wheels are trued. I feather the brakes. I don't brake in turns. My top speed is 30mph.

Once a tandem passed me doing 65 mph (according to their cyclometer.) :eek:

*There are those that say riding a bike in traffic qualifies somebody as insane!

[Zen]

Isn't something wrong with your bike if it is shimmying?

Not necessarily. Shimmying is otherwise known as speed wobble (http://www.pro-am.com.au/speed_wobble_on_a_bicycle.htm)

[Minxitup]

Hi,

I really feel for you!

I used to be a fearless rider, I loved going down steep hills, bumps etc. Then I had my baby. I hadn't ridden in 11 months and the 1st ride was great until downhill. I froze, braked, and put my foot down. I don't know what happened. I had a panic attack. I don't do that. What is going on? I had a downhill wreck a few years prior and broke my nose, skinned myself up pretty bad and just jumped back on my bike and was fine.

I wish there was an easy solution. I"m still trying to go down small hills without braking, but when the long ones come along, my fear is in full bloom. This is totally crazy and not rational.

[evangundy]

I've never liked bridges, doesn't matter if walking, riding or cycling. I still won't stop on one if I can help it - don't like to feel it moving. But one day a few years ago, I started to have mild panic attacks, holding my breath, almost wanting to scream, when driving or riding across, and could not walk across. And here in Portland, it's hard avoiding bridges :-) Flying never bothered me before, but I became scared to death if the plane bounced even a little. Always loved downhills on my bike, but found I had become very nervous, and slowed on my downhills. Had lots of other things going on as well, so mentioned things at a yearly doc checkup. He tested my thyroid function and found I have Hashimoto's. After about 6 months on thyroid pills, symptoms started to subside, along with the fear and panic attacks. Also, no longer afraid when flying, and again, I absolutely love to go downhill fast on my bike.

When I first got into cycling, a friend who used to race motorcycles gave me advice that helped:
- the most important being to keep the upper body relaxed, and not have a death-grip on the handlebars. Hold on enough to have control, but the more tense you are, the harder it is to control the bike. It is especially true on the recumbent. The tighter your grip, the more wobbly the front wheel, no matter if it's uphill or down.
-only increase your speed gradually, as you get used to it. If you reach a speed that you can't seem to go any faster, that might be your speed. No need to be ashamed of it, learn to enjoy that speed. If you don't enjoy it, drop 1 or 2 mph.
-on a downhill, you need to always pay attention, no looking off to watch the horses playing in the field so you miss a turn in the road (oops - been there, done that - good thing I was only going 22mph - deep gravel just stopped the bike when tires sank into it, fell over sideways, no injuries, except to my pride).
- if you have a friend who is good at descending, ask them to lead you, but at your speed. Follow their lines through the corners, mimicing their body position on the bike. Then have them follow you, so they can see what you are doing, how you are riding, and they can give advice, things for you to maybe change or try.
- practice, practice, practice - as you become more comfortable going down on a familiar hill, that feeling will help you on new hills.

I'm known to be one of the faster descenders in our group. But I don't go beyond my ability to control the bike. My longwheelbase bike rides like it is a sled on rails. On Tour BC a month ago, I hit a new PR for speed - 56.3 mph on a 3/4 mile long downhill, straight, gradual curve at the bottom, no side roads until the bottom, light wind but no gusts. An absolute rush. I haven't crashed at speed and hope I never do.

Sorry this post is so long,
Edna

[featuretile]

I noticed that I had posted on this awhile back. Now I can go downhill a little faster than before (30mph). Another cyclist told me to put your weight farther back on the saddle when going down a steep grade and that seems to help.

I actually go slower when the grade is very steep than when it is a little less formidable. When it's really steep (and curvy), I brake frequently. My hands tend to hurt from braking on these giant descents. I am not interested in missing a curve and flying over the bike or hitting a pothole.

When it's gentle and I can see where I am going, I can just enjoy the downhill without braking at all. Perhaps you can find some nice gentle downhill to practice on and start to conquer your fear.

[gabriellesca]

I don't have time to read this whole thread but am looking forward to what others have to say. I'm terrified of descending - I would much rather climb up than come down. So you're sooooooooo not alone!

[dinae]

To Soleil6 - did you get over your fear? I'd like to know since I have this issue now.

[TigerMom]

I am new at cycling so I don't go downhill too fast either.

However, I do know that riding on the "drops" gives me better brake control. I also watch very carefully for bumps/objects in the road and will only go as fast as I feel comfortable scanning the road for objects. I used to go downhill at only about 5mph and now, probably at 20mph. This increased speed occurred over the course of 2months because I am also a downhill weenie. I was told to keep my pedals level for better control and ability to squeeze my seat between my thighs if needed.

Also, I only recently learned how to make turns correctly. When making a rt turn, keep left leg down at 6:00 position and when making a left turn, keep rt leg down at 6:00 position.

I am sure that if you start at your comfortable downhill speed, you will go faster and faster when you are ready.

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[ny biker]

Also, I only recently learned how to make turns correctly. When making a rt turn, keep left leg down at 6:00 position and when making a left turn, keep rt leg down at 6:00 position.

It also helps if you point the knee of the other leg outward while you turn.

I think the way you are descending sounds right -- go at the speed you're comfortable with and gradually gain confidence.