Any other unhappy-ending adoptive parents out there?

[bacarver]

Hi TE -

I don't know how well this topic will be received by the forum, but I'll give it a try. We adopted grade-school age siblings in 1995. Lived through about 6 plus years of hell with them. They left at ages 15 and 17 because they didn't want to live with us. It's been almost 10 years since they left, and I'm still bombarded by memories on a daily basis and vivid dreams several nights a week. We have absolutely no contact with them or the nearly 5 year old son that my daughter has.
Not every adoption succeeds and there must be others who have been through this. I need something to help me move on.
I've tried a variety of methods to be at peace with this pain and nothing works.
The investment in adopting children as your own is for life despite the outcome.
I've tried to locate support groups/systems and haven't had any luck. Living in a rural area doesn't help. Adoption support systems are geared toward the matches that are still intact.
Thanks -
Barb

[shootingstar]

I'm sorry that you are sad/disturbed by these memories. It sounds tough. Hope one day you will find an answer for this longing/memory/grieving... whatever. Hope someone walks with you to find the answer to greater wisdom and understanding. You are a good person and have done your best.

On a related topic, last night I was watching a videoclip by a gifted pediatric doctor on brain development and the effect of parenting and child's environment during lst 5 yrs. of life. The years before you received these children into your home. Let me try to find this thing. I'm sure many TE members who work with children, know some of these theories.

http://www.hbs.edu/centennial/businesssummit/global-business/managing-human-capital-global-trends-and-challenges.html Bcarver, this is actually a conference on diversity and management. For an interesting reason, the panel included this doctor, whom you will see with white hair, seated beside the black prof. The black prof. speaks for 5 min. introducing all speakers. But the doctor will speak lst after all introductions. He is an engaging and warm speaker with a real gift for teaching. You can see/hear it.

I think they brought him in to speak to senior managers ..to help them make correlations how important it is to build organizations in a healthy way, (like nuturing a child??) recognize capabilities of people with different needs.

(For TE members, next speaker is about women in senior management (or lack of numbers) of possible interest, totally unrelated to children. Some good stories.)

________________________________________________________________
I'm not a parent and my partner has children from his former marriage.

[Crankin]

I would advocate for counseling to deal with this, because in all reality, you most likely wouldn't find a support group, even in a larger city. It must be heartbreaking, and I am at a loss for words.
But, I *do* know someone whose adoption did not work out. I don't know her well, but she goes to my synagogue. She adopted 2 boys, about 2 years apart. I believe they were infants or toddlers when they were adopted. Just this past year, I found out that the younger boy had serious emotional/behavioral problems, to the point of threatening to kill the parents with knives. They turned him over to DSS and made him a ward of the state. I believe he was around 15. One of my good friends was a teacher assistant in the special needs class he was in during middle school.
I know that this doesn't exactly match up with your situation, but I know this woman's life has been living hell because of it.

[Biciclista]

I know of a woman who adopted a little boy who had been abused. She shared a home with her sister and her sister's husband and they figured with the 3 of them they could overcome the serious problems that little boy had.
The woman bore another child and her sister had two more, but the hardest child for them all was that boy. He finally got big enough that when he had his tantrums, they had to call 911 and he often ended up restrained and/or drugged and incarcerated.
They finally found a "military academy" for boys like him. They see him twice a year. he's only 12. You're not alone. It has got to be so traumatic. Aren't there any support groups for folks like you?

[Eden]

Taking on older children is never easy and what they went through before you adopted them may have been too damaging for you to change. Even with infants it doesn't always work out wonderfully. Not that this may not have been the same story even with biological children, but I do think that the person I know may have been a fetal alcohol baby (and who knows what else..)

My aunt and uncle were unable to have children and adopted two girls as infants. The first one was a real terror..... she was probably a psychopath and showed it from the time she was a baby.... She abused animals as a small child, terrorized other children (including and probably worst her sister) had extraordinarily poor self esteem and generally acted very poorly.

I won't excuse them from all of it - they turned a blind eye to a lot of her behavior, but I do definitely think that nature had something to do with it.

My aunt and uncle never gave up on her. She got pregnant in high school and ended up moving out. She eventually married and had another child and it seemed like she was actually settling down a bit when she over dosed and died from prescription medicines.

My other cousin, for all she went through as a child is pretty normal. She went to college and married recently. She does however suffer from panic attacks...

[shootingstar]

I do want to preface that I've known several people in my generation who were adopted, are loved and are just fine.

I did have a close childhood friend, we were pals into early 30's friendship where I knew her family well. Her parents adopted boy when he was around 3-4 yrs. old At times, through the years I would hear of the problems with her brother. Total contrast to rest of his 3 sisters. He got into crime, several times in jail, drugs, etc. Didn't finish high school. Left home. He did eventually clean up and married a nice woman. I met her.

Then several years later, I heard he died. He was only in his late 20's. The reason for his death was never really given. Like a dark cloud hanging over the family.

For a totally different family, I've always wondered of what happened to this huge family, that we knew where a Caucasian couple (professors) had 2 natural children and adopted 5 other children..wide range of backgrounds, several black, 2 native Indian, etc. This was highly atypical in small southern Ontario city when I was growing up to have a large family of primarily adopted children. At the time, it was source of curiosity because it was predominantly white city at the time.

Even as children we knew some of the adopted children had some learning (meaning disruptive) challenges in the classroom since some were in classes with some of my siblings.

[salsabike]

Bacarver, I have a close friend who had an adoption that did not work and was later rescinded, and have worked with a couple of parents who have experienced this. You are definitely not alone. Let me check with the close friend when I get back to work next week to see if she has any support group info---she may well---or other resources for you. I am sorry. Very painful stuff. Please know that with the best will in the world, you can't always make things work for other people, and that this is not your fault.

[bacarver]

"My son"/the boy we adopted was taken away in handcuffs 3 weeks after his 15th birthday. He was defiant, had attacked us, and we were fearful of him. He then went to a psych hospital, then to a children's treatment facility, then back into foster care where he aged out.
We signed papers allowing "our daughter"/the girl to marry 2 days after she turned 17. She refused to live at our house any longer and there was nothing we could do. She despised us.
I would like to connect with others who have been through this. But, I don't want to gripe. I want to deal with this, adjust, and move on in a healthy direction. I cannot imagine another 10 years of daily flashbacks and distressing dreams.
Thanks for listening.
Barb

[blackhillsbiker]

My best friend in Wyoming adopted 2 sets of sibling Russian children. What with fetal alcohol syndrome, oppositional-defiance, reactive-attachment disorder, sexual abuse issues and learning disabilities, their lives were chaos. I didn't realize until then that there are some early damages that cannot be undone, regardless of love and parenting. It tore up their marriage. I'm not exactly sure where she (my friend) is now. It all got to be too much for her. I suspect that there are lots of people in the same situation as you. I know that internet support groups aren't the same as being in the same room as others, but there are probably some decent ones out there. Counseling is also a good suggestion. I hope you are able to find some assistance in dealing with this.

Big hugs,
Deb

[copperlegend]

bacarver:

As someone that is adopted (27 years ago, as a newborn, as far as i am concerned my parents are MY PARENTS) I want to thank you for adopting. It may not help with the pain you feel with your specific situation, but people like you are a godsend, even when things don't turn out wonderfully. I hope one day you find some sort of solace.

*hug*

[Owlie]

My biology teacher's sister adopted two Russian brothers when they were about six and eight, I think. They had been malnourished and had spent much of their lives effectively alone. They were unholy terrors for a long time. He said they're doing better--physical work for the older one seems to help a lot.

A friend of mine was adopted, as was her (non-biological) brother, both as infants. They've both got some issues, but the brother's were worse. He'd get into a lot of trouble at school, and ended up threatening his sister. Long story short, she got sent to a school in Virginia (I don't know the whole story), they got some kind of help for the boy. My friend wound up dropping out of college and is now working at a bakery.

[Aggie_Ama]

My father was adopted at 7 when his alcoholic biological father gave him to the state. My Nanny and Pawpaw tried to take in both his biological brothers as fosters to keep them a complete family. Both brothers were older and had various problems, the only one I really know of is constantly stealing from my Dad and no amount of direction would stop it. My Nanny and Pawpaw only ending up raising my father because the others had no desire to be in a home environment, they would skip school and disappear for days as young teenagers. They bounced around from relative to relative then jail. One my father now has a relationship with, one he never has. I commend you for trying, my father's family situation isn't as severe as your but I know it pained my grandparents that they tried to do right by the family. I am sure you are not alone, I hope you are able to find the support you need.

[Trek420]

bacarver: .... people like you are a godsend, even when things don't turn out wonderfully. I hope one day you find some sort of solace.

*hug*

+1. People who adopt are wonderful and to be commended. Thank you for adopting, I'm very sorry to hear that it was so tough. I wish there was more support for adoptive families. Maybe then more people would adopt. There are so many kids who need a family.

[badger]

it seems not too uncommon to have not-so-happy endings for parents who adopt. I'm surprised there are no formal help groups. I hope you'll be able to find some comfort somewhere.

My former boss and his wife has two natural children but also adopted two First Nations siblings. They both had fetal alcohol syndrome and proved nothing but trouble. The girl ran away constantly, finally ended up pregnant and moved back to her native Saskatchewan when she was 17. Her brother became involved in drugs and alcohol and was physicially abusive to the family. He also moved back to Saskatchewan when he was about 17.

They were given all the same opportunities as their two natural children but I guess the nature proved stronger than nurture.

I also saw a program once on people who adopted children from foreign countries who have had nothing but trouble. There's even a "camp" for them where there is a woman who is a child-whisperer of sorts. She uses her farm to rehabilitate these children. They don't come back perfect by any means, and some never go back because the parents can't handle them anymore. It was quite startling.

[cylegoddess]

Hope this helps some.
My husbands aunt adopted 2 girls from Korea. One has turned out pretty well, great grades, a dancer, spoiled rotten is the worst of her faults!
The other, a cheeky sort of girl - also gone bad. History of monstrous behavior including throwing a pool ball at her sisters nose, pysch ward, antidepressants, running up credit cards, accusing someone of rape( and we made SURE that she was or wasnt, esp me - seeing as I have been raped), the list goes on and on.
There is a book, called building better babies. Its about how you can make super intelligent , healthy babies. It also get syou to thinking how bad most people eat, and what they do on a daily basis to their body's - isnt so hot for children.
It is such a big big thing not to smoke or drink or take drugs , to have proper nutrition.
Im sure you did your very best.

[cylegoddess]

I myself, was considered a problem child( premie), up til the day that I found out that I had non diagnosed ADD from blue baby syndrome. It was heartbreaking as I blamed for things I had no control over( focus) etc, and despair spiraled me into a eating disorder, and worse. No one knew and my parents still dont know to this day, the cruelty that I have been thru.
I figure, they did their best, even though the best wasn't so good.
You, have tried. And like myself, are haunted. And might be for a while.
Time is a great healer, but sometimes there isnt enough time.
Perhaps you might do some hatha yoga.This is the very best thing I found for emotional hurt and upsets. It has been done for 1000s of years to calm the emotions and I find it helps let them out too.
You are a special and caring person. You have done a brave and good thing. Im sorry it hurt you. You are your own Lance Armstrong in some ways, you know? No hill or endurance will hurt as much as perhaps you still do. Use it, the pain is a tool. Exceed your limits. It helps. xxo Kerry

[OakLeaf]

(((((Barb)))))

I don't have a lot to add but a hearty +1 to what Trek said. I'm so sorry that things turned out so badly for your family, and so grateful to you for taking your children in.

When you say you've tried "everything," have you tried EMDR? It's one of the modalities that's supposed to be very effective on the kind of post-traumatic reaction you're describing. "Therapy" is as broad a term as "medicine" - it encompasses a lot of modalities and specialties, and I would really encourage you to try again. I do know how difficult that is in a rural area, but I would think you could find a broad range within a reasonable drive, and that at this point a drive would be worth it.

I hope you find a way to soothe your heart, and sooner than later.

[Crankin]

I hope I didn't sound too "flip" when I mentioned counseling. Trauma work is very difficult, so if you go this route, make sure to find someone who is experienced/a specialist in trauma. I know this sounds weird, but sometimes you can get a good referral for a therapist who specializes in trauma from a rape crisis center.
Please let us know how things are going.

[Trek420]

I forgot to have children :rolleyes: (luckily Knott remembered) so I can't speak to what it is like to raise a very young child.

All I know is that parenting is the hardest job of all, teaching would be the second hardest I think.

If you want to have a family and all the parts work, lucky you! If not I can understand the desire to have ones own child, your genetic material, your eyes, his smile ... but every time I read of some new technology, new heroic measures to combat infertility all I can think of is somewhere a kid seeing the same news thinking "now I will never have a family". :( Even with your quality genetic material do we ever know what you're gonna get in a child?

Surprise :p totally different personality type. Maybe better than you :cool:

I personally know a few families with adopted kids who are very happy as far as I know. One of my Aikido instructors adopted their daughter from China. Things are working out well. They have created a lot of community/support with other local families who adopted whether in the good ol' USA or internationally at around the same time. Lots of support.

Growing up our next door (well through the field, through the orchard and past their barn) adopted three kids. I think the kids knew they were adopted. I don't know what happened to them over time. Hey, maybe I'll look them up in Facebook :p but as playmates and neighbors they were fine.

In the late 70's I cooked at a cafe on Piedmont Ave Oakland, one of our cooks was adopted, sort of. As a child his parents were not interested in parenting. They had other priorities whatever those were.

So they simply dropped him off with their lesbian neighbors in the apartment building. Then they left. :confused: This would have been in the '50's. The women raised him with what legal protections they could (which at the time would be none). As far as he was concerned they are his parents.

I recall he expressed no interest in finding the couple who could not be bothered with raising him.

He was, probably still is a great guy, a fun and competent coworker, very very straight :rolleyes: ;) and an excellent chef :cool: :) ....

[bacarver]

Hi TE -

Thanks for giving me ideas to ponder. I would very much like to locate an internet support group or individuals willing to e-mail/write who have been through this loss. I did search a few years ago and hit dead ends. The support out there was for those wanting to foster/adopt. The failures were ignored/set aside because they don't promote child placement. I will try again to see if I can find something.
My past experiences with outpatient counseling have been less than satisfactory. I am hesitant to go back in for more.
EMDR is probably my best option.
I find it hard to overcome the "it's not my fault" belief.

Barb

[papaver]

bacarver, this may sound a little weird but... if there aren't any support groups, why not start one of your own? Try to find a psychologist or a counselor or another professional, maybe people from adoption agencies to back you up. It has to start somewhere. ;)

[shootingstar]

bacarver, this may sound a little weird but... if there aren't any support groups, why not start one of your own? Try to find a psychologist or a counselor or another professional, maybe people from adoption agencies to back you up. It has to start somewhere. ;)

Was just thinking of this too. At some point in time, not necessarily right away. Maybe after gathering more strength and with a professional counsellor or 2 to support/coordinate.

Gut feeling tells me...this a whole area of research that needs attention but that can't even begin until professional counsellors are pulled in to speak /talk with folks like bacarver.

Bacarver has much to offer..at some point later.

Hoping for a smoother road for you, bacarver. This is an article of related interest: http://muskie.usm.maine.edu/helpkids/rcpdfs/Sec.Trauma-foster.pdf

As an option for : is to contact a university/college where the instructor specializes in teaching /research in areas related to your problem. These people would have a network of professional colleagues and knowledge of credible support groups across the U.S.

[malkin]

Some of the pain you seem to express seems like it would be similar to that of natural parents who are estranged from their children for whatever reason.

It's a sad and painful story.

[Trek420]

Some of the pain you seem to express seems like it would be similar to that of natural parents who are estranged from their children for whatever reason.

It's a sad and painful story.

+1. I don't think this is unique to adoptive parents which makes me wonder if there is a group out there for this situation generally.

If not, there needs to be someday as parents need a lot of support.

[channlluv]

I don't know what EMDR is. I hope it's helpful to you, though.

Have you journaled your feelings? Keep in mind that I'm a writer, but this sounds like it would be a really helpful book for others in your situation, reading about how you've dealt with the situation and your feelings. I'm looking forward to when you've found a good therapy, whatever that may be, and are able to move on in that healthy direction you mentioned earlier.

Just a thought. I do wish you well, whatever direction you take in healing.

Roxy

[tc1]

Hi Bacarver.
Normally I don't comment on threads regarding kids, as I am happily childless. But, I wanted to tell you, that I work with someone who did therapeutic foster care for a number of years. He has told me that the childrens' birth families are usually a mess, with a lot of substance abuse. He maintains that prenatal drug/alcohol abuse can not only damage the fetus, but can cause damage to eggs and sperm. His point is, by the time one gets these children the damage has already been done, and sometimes nothing can fix it.

I will ask him the next time I see him if there are any support groups out there, or if he has any books to recommend. I do feel qualified to tell you to stop blaming yourself, sometimes even our best efforts result in bad outcomes.

[Onix]

((((Barb))))))

Have you received any therapy for these issues in the past?

I can only imagine how traumatic and difficult that must have been on your family. I have spent many years working at a children's shelter and working with kids and families in really really difficult situations.

I will look up some resources for you to see if I can find anything to help out. I am in social work graduate school at the moment and have a few professors who work a lot with adoption. I am sure that they have resources regarding this type of challenge.

Best of luck.

[Tuckervill]

As someone has said, it's not uncommon for the relationships of biological parent/child to disintegrate, as well, or never even get started very well. Disabuse yourself of any notions that you somehow failed these kids or that biological parents automatically have it all together.

Add in fetal alcohol syndrome--you were probably doomed from the start.

There's a Christian writer/speaker, Beth Moore, who writes very eloquently about having to give up an adopted child after 11 years (I think). You might look her up.

My brother-in-law had to give up a pair of siblings (not yet adopted, but they lived there for 5 years) because one of the children was a danger to the family. Keeping them would have meant certain molestation of their little girl, at a minimum, so there's a line to be drawn.

A close friend put up with 23 years of hell from her adopted child with FAS. Horrible, indescribable torturous life for the entire family, and it goes on, even as they are finally estranged. The family is still a target of this man's delusions, even after he was given a wonderful wonderful life, under the circumstances. Because of the FAS, he is completely incapable of moderating his impulses, and unfortunately he is a danger to others but the family is basically in hiding from him. It is so bad that when the father passed away suddenly, his will stated the son was not to be told until after the funeral, and then through a third party. All because of FAS. It was very difficult for the parents to let go and not feel guilty about it (still an ongoing process for the mother), but they were heroes in my book.

The person to blame is the biological mother who drank through the pregnancy, and that's a road that goes backwards forever, and there's no point in looking back. Just don't blame yourself. YOU are not a miracle worker. YOU did what you could. Find a way to release yourself. You deserve it.

Karen

[shootingstar]

As someone has said, it's not uncommon for the relationships of biological parent/child to disintegrate, as well, or never even get started very well. Disabuse yourself of any notions that you somehow failed these kids or that biological parents automatically have it all together.


Well said, Tuckerville especially when bacarver tried hard.

And alot of families with natural children if one looks at a whole family tree, there is at least 1 (or more) somewhat dysfunctional family relationship(s) that could be improved or person that needs help. But person can't/doesn't want to change.

[salsabike]

Barb, I have emailed the friend I mentioned and will let you know what I hear.

[Tuckervill]

I just wanted to add that I got the FAS thing mixed up in the stories, and I recognize that you didn't mention it at all, Barb. That said, whatever happened to those kids before you got them is still a huge hurdle full of unknowns that you can't be blamed for not being able to jump.

Karen

[bacarver]

Channlluv -

Yes, I have used journalling in the past. I wrote volumes that I burned once the kids had been gone for about a year. I couldn't keep the journals in the house because the presence of them continued the misery.

EMDR is a unique therapy that uses eye movements to unlock and then reprocess traumatic memories.

Onix - Yes, I've been in traditional therapy for this and it didn't help. I don't fit into a familiar category and it was hard for the therapist to know how to help me. I would greatly appreciate any resources.

Salsabike - Thank you.

Barb

[Shara]

I agree with what people have said so far and really feel for you Barb. Children are your children no matter how they came into your life. I like to think that your story hasn't ended. Your children are adults now and hopefully, at some point, they will start thinking about their childhoods and want to talk to you. For some people it takes a long time to get to a reflective period in their lives but I hope it happens for them. As for resources, I really don't have any ideas that haven't been suggested. I think there might be a lack of information because people don't like to say anything negative about adoption since it already has its own stigmas. But there should be something out there. I like the idea of starting your own

[indysteel]

Barb, I am so sorry about your situation. Like Trek420 said, however, what happened with your children is not unique to adoptive parents/children. Even in my own family, there have been long periods of estrangement between my parents and two of their three biological children. I think you might be able to find some support out there if you broaden your search to biological parents who are dealing with troubled or estranged children.

As for therapy, I wonder if you might benefit from trying another therapist or type of therapy, especially if your past experience is limited to just one therapist. Not every therapist or counselor is a good fit, nor is every therapist good at what she/he does unfortunately. It can take some trial and error as a patient to find one that works for you. With the right guidance, however, I firmly believe that it's possible to make traumatic experiences more bearable and to move forward with your life.

My therapist practices EMDR, and while I don't necessarily fit the profile for PTSD, I have had a few sessions with her so that she could get certified (and I could work through some baggage). I found it to be incredibly helpful. If nothing else, it helped cement my understanding that "I" am distinct from the events that have transpired in my life and the emotions that they trigger, as integral to me as they sometimes feel. It's given me a bit more distance from the sadness in my life.

Good luck with whatever you choose. I sincerely hope you find peace.

[Crankin]

Thank you, Indy for saying what you did about a bad therapy experience. I feel like I don't want to say anything, because people might think I was "pushing" my new profession, or worse, that I am just an over zealous grad student. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned trauma work. It's tough and often makes the flashbacks worse before they get better, but it does work. Trauma can encompass a lot of situations, although most people think of PTSD as only associated with military trauma or witnessing some natural disaster.
And I think someone noted that biological children can cause this type of estrangement with parents and that even "happy" adoptions aren't always perfect. How true! My brother is adopted (as an infant) and although we definitely had the same child rearing, he is a troubled (though functional) adult. I didn't know the scope of his issues until quite recently, as we are eleven years apart and don't talk that often. Even though he was always told he was adopted and offered help to search for his birth parents (he refused, saying we were his "real" family), I think the trauma of abandonment is so real for adoptees, that even if they have no other issues such as FAS, unless the attachment stuff is worked through, it's never going to be easy.
Just my opinion, and a very humble one at that.

[badger]

I know of so many families with estrangments, my aunt has been estranged from her daughter for over 25 years, absolutely no contact whatsoever. I don't think they'll ever reconcile; I have no idea what transpired the estrangement, I have never met my cousin.

I had some therapy with EMDR for my panic/anxiety disorder. While I don't think it worked right away, I do believe it helped me a great deal in the long run.

Good luck to whatever you decide to do!

[salsabike]

Barb, here's part of the response from my friend. I'm posting it here in case others on TE might benefit from it. There's also more private info and I will PM that to you. This friend is a long time social worker, one of the most loving and wonderful people I know, and had an adoption that they had to end, years ago. She is as recovered as anyone can be, but it can still raise tears sometimes.

She said to search on this website for other parents who have been through this: www.pnpic.org
(The Parent Network for the Post Institutionalized Child). She also said that she had placed an anonymous notification in the Adoptive Family Magazine in attempt to connect with other families experiencing a disruption. She got some responses and moved forward with talking to those folks.

[KnottedYet]

One of my ministers has been through some really rough stuff with his five adopted kids. I know the situation is not the same, but he's someone who is fairly well known for dealing with adoption issues and troubled kids. He might be able to put you in contact with other folks in your situation or know of some more resources.

At the very least, he's a wonderful guy to talk to.

Rev. Greg Stewart http://www.uusf.org/AboutUUSF/Ministers.htm
email: gstewart@uusf.org

[bacarver]

I did locate a website that deals with parents and their children who are estranged. This showed me the volumes of people out there who are suffering because of the separation. Sad stories. I have a lot to think about. Thanks for all the suggestions and concern.
Barb

[tc1]

Hi Bacarver.
I talked to my friend who did therapeutic foster care. He thought you might have a hard time finding support, because people don't talk about this too much. He said there is a tendency to blame the foster parents for everything that goes wrong, no matter the truth of things. He is willing to correspond by email if you wish to talk to him. Let me know and I will PM you with his email address.

[bacarver]

Hi tc1 -
Yes, I am interested in corresponding with your friend that has done therapeutic foster care. I will wait for a PM from you with his e-mail.
Thanks - Barb