Haven't ridden for 3 days because of a very scary man

[staceysue]

I think I'm going to go get back on my bike this morning, but I'm scared and that just takes all the joy out of it.

I live in the boonies, quite some distance from any police help. There's this guy who lives a little over a mile down the road from me. He's out every day on his 4-wheeler with a chainsaw, up and down the road, cutting up dead fall and bringing it home to burn in his wood stove. A couple of people warned me in the past "stay away from that guy, he and his wife are crazy," and I've never talked to him or had a run-in with him until recently.

Well - he's followed me twice now and he makes it very clear that he's following me. He's deliberately scaring me and enjoying it. He doesn't just hang back - he'll ride up beside me on his 4-wheeler and stare at me, then go ahead of me for a quarter mile or so and pull over and stare at me as I ride past him, then get back behind me and follow me some more. The last time I rode my bike, he was out in somebody's yard cutting wood and saw me going by. He turned off his chainsaw and got on his 4-wheeler and followed me again. This time he pulled up next to me when I was at a stop sign and said "sorry for scaring you, nice day for a bike ride isn't it?" I said "Yes, it's a beautiful day," and continued riding and he got behind me again and followed me for at least a mile (and yes - he was following me, not just riding down the road. You don't ride down the road, behind a bicycle, that slowly on a 4-wheeler) before I took out my cell phone and pretended to be calling for help, at which point he pulled into the driveway of a farm where nobody was home. Keep in mind there are very few cars down these country roads - I was quite a lone with him. I kept looking back to see if he backed out and went home, but he didn't. I think he was behind the trees watching me. He WANTED me to be afraid.

I kept riding until I was far enough away that he couldn't see where I was going, then I hid between some buildings and called my son to give me a ride home.

When I told my son what happened he said "That's funny, because something weird happened before. I didn't mention it because it seemed so crazy that I thought I was imagining it, but he was out on the road with a hand gun one day, waving it in the air." Then when I told my husband about what happened he said "That's funny, because one day I saw him prowling around on our property."

I could call the police but, seriously, it wouldn't do any good. People have called the police on him many times before and they don't do anything. He's mentally ill - what are they going to do? They can't put him in jail and they can't have him hospitalized because there aren't any mental hospitals up here anymore. If I see him brandishing a firearm again, then I'll call for sure.

The police think I'm a nut case, anyway, because I've called them so many times before. I called because there was a drunk driver weaving back and forth from ditch to ditch on our road, and because somebody was shooting guns right outside my window (turned out they were just hunting - but they were trespassing), and one time my son accidentally dialed 911 and, even though they called back and asked if everything was OK, they still showed up in force and shined spotlights all over my house (took them a long time to get here, though), and I called another time because a dangerous schizophrenic patient (I've taken care of him in the ER) was out on the side of the road hitchiking and I didn't want him to hurt anybody, and another time because there was a huge dead buck in the middle of the highway, and another time because a bunch of idiots put a deer bait pile right by the highway and we hit two deer in two days because of it and . . . . . . . . . you get the picture.

Anyway . . . . I do have a concealed carry permit (wouldn't you get one if you lived here?), but I don't want to have to carry a gun on my bike! I want to have fun on my bike and, besides, it'll stretch out my jacket. I'd have to carry it in my pocket because I don't have a holster. I want to be free and not worry about stuff! It's not fun at all to ride when you're scared.

There is one road where I've never seen him, and I don't have to ride past his house to get there. I think I'll go ahead and bring a gun - tears are stinging my eyes just thinking of having to carry a gun doing the one thing I really enjoy doing . . . . but he is truly dangerous.

Sorry. I just had to vent. I'm so mad and sad and frustrated. I get depressed when I don't get exercise and I haven't had a good workout in days. I'm about ready to start bawling my eyes out.

Sometimes it's so hard to live here.

[Blueberry]

That sucks. I'm so sorry you're dealing with that:(

Can you drive elsewhere to ride for a little while? To let things settle down??

CA

[Bike Chick]

How horrible! I thought dogs were an issue..............that's nothing compared to this.

Could you drive to another spot and ride from there?

[staceysue]

That sucks. I'm so sorry you're dealing with that:(

Can you drive elsewhere to ride for a little while? To let things settle down??

CA

I thought about it - but I have to put my bike in the back of my car and I have a problem taking my wheel off and putting it back on. The brakes always get out of alignment. I know it's because I'm kind of new to riding and I'm doing something wrong.

Maybe I'll go ahead and try to do that today, though.

[staceysue]

If I'm going to go I'd better get going now. I think I'll try to drive somewhere else and go for a ride.

Just for future reference if - you know - I'm missing . . . . his last name is Spalding and he lives in the house with the pet pigeons, set back from the county road! :rolleyes:

[Pax]

You could get a nice big can of bear spray (pepper spray) and keep in in your bottle cage, next time he follows you stop (keep your bike between you and him) and say loudly STOP FOLLOWING ME!! Peddle off and when he starts following you again...mace the hell out of him. If it were me and I had a CCW, I'd carry for a while as well.

[Ana]

You could get a nice big can of bear spray (pepper spray) and keep in in your bottle cage, next time he follows you stop (keep your bike between you and him) and say loudly STOP FOLLOWING ME!! Peddle off and when he starts following you again...mace the hell out of him. If it were me and I had a CCW, I'd carry for a while as well.

Yes, but he may have a gun handy....and he is unstable.... :(

[runningteach]

It is awful that you have such a crazy person bothering you. I hope you can find somewhere safe to ride. The idea of driving your bike to another area sounds like the best thing for you at this time. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

[Pax]

Yes, but he may have a gun handy....and he is unstable.... :(

I just can't live in fear, so confrontation is my approach when all other avenues have been exhausted. Seems the only other option is to quit riding. :(

[Bike Chick]

Hey, I like that idea..............it would be my luck that the wind would be blowing the wrong direction and it would get me instead:eek:

Good luck Staceysue and enjoy your ride. Probably not a bad idea to learn how to haul your bike yourself anyway.........kinda like changing a flat tire the first time.

[Bike Chick]

Quitting riding wouldn't be an option.........

[copperlegend]

May I suggest perhaps arranging a meeting with you (and possibly your family) with the local head of police, or some sort of patrol manager or something? Even if you think you look crazy, the police probably don't think so. You certainly have a very real concern here, and it should not be taken lightly. Good luck!

[MommyBird]

How awful.
I live in the country too and had an isolated stalking incident while running a few years ago. A neighbor gave me a ride home. I can't imagine having this ongoing issue like you do.

I would notify the police. Most of us have called to report things over the years. None of yours sounded over the top with the exception of your son's call. But hey, kids do dumb things.

When I first moved out to the sticks I called 911 to report a fire. I was driving home in the dark and it was smoky all around me. Turned out to be a controlled burn on a farm nearby. It looked like every emergency truck in our county was lined up in the street at our driveway. They were very nice and assured me that it was not a problem.

After my stalking experience I went to the sheriffs department and filled out a report. I suggest you do the same. I did not call, I physically went to their office. I am sure they will take you serious if you are a real person to them and not just a voice on the phone. I also bought some mace. I had only been carrying a knife.

We do not have a gun. Not because I am anti-gun but because we have just never gotten one. My husband recently got his permit to carry but still hasn't purchased a gun. We joke that we are the only family in the country with a sprinkler system and no guns. Transplants from the burbs!

[tulip]

Call the police anyways. And keep calling them every time he threatens you and your family. It's their job to take care of public safety, and this guy certainly seems like a threat. The more calls about him that they receive, the less they can ignore the situation. And to be fair, they might not know about all of his antics if no one calls in about him.

Best of luck to you.

[ginny]

Oh, living in the boonies! So fun! I have had a couple of scary run ins with my crazy neighbors way out in the middle of nowhere. Once, I was pretty sure I would have been kidnapped if my husband wasn't driving slowly up and down the road while I was running... why can't people just live and let live?

I thought of the pepper spray idea too - though that would only work one time. You would get away, but you and your family could probably never walk or ride past him again without him getting very angry. Also, you already know he has a gun, so I'm not sure I would want to enter an arms race with a crazy person. I would absolutely take the other road that he cannot see you on. As far as seeing him trespass, I would call the cops every single time. You could consider getting a restraining order (?) I don't know anything about them. Do you have to confront the individual to get one? I know it wouldn't help, but you would be documenting harassment. Alternatively, I know this seems drastic, but you could consider moving. Feeling safe is so important. If you have to wonder if he's going to show up in your house one day, that will wear on you. I dunno... I know that's extreme, but I thought I would mention it...

Sorry for your predicament...

[tjf9]

Keep trusting your instincts. If your gut says don't ride by this man's property, then don't do it. I agree with the drive to ride advice. You'll at least get to ride, even though it is more of a hassle.

Stay safe!

[Kathi]

Does your stae have a bicycling advocacy group? If so, contact them. Are there and state laws protecting bicyclists. In Colorado it is illegal to harrass cyclists. 3 days after the law passed 2 jerks in an old clunker passed very close to my friend at 50 mph. The passenger leaned out the side of the car and pushed my friend's left hand down. Fortunately, his hand was positioned near the center of his handlebars so he didn't go down. He called 911 and there just happened to be a police officer nearby. The guys were well known in the area for various offenses so they ended up with a court date.

Keep a record of everything (dates, times, actions) the guy does. Pictures or video could be helpful. Our neighborhood was having a problem with a noisy motorcyclist. He was well known as a neighborhood bully and residents were afraid to complain because they were worried he would damage their houses. I kept a record and made it well known, to neighbors and police, that I knew the ordinances, (his muffler isn't regulation) and was keeping a log of his activities, the noise died down.

Do you release your brake before you remove your wheel? It's the first thing you do before loosening the wheel.

Don't feel bad about calling the police when others are breaking the law. I once called the police on my neighbor. He had parked his car near our house, his windows were down and music was playing very loudly. It was 2:30 am and a Sat nite. I thought someone in the neighorhood was having a party so I called it in. Turns out my neighbor was drunk and had passed out with his keys in the ignition. A no, no where I lived so they took him in. I still feel bad about that.

I agree with the others, trust your intuition and ride somewhere else for now.

[kenyonchris]

Also, you already know he has a gun, so I'm not sure I would want to enter an arms race with a crazy person. I would absolutely take the other road that he cannot see you on. As far as seeing him trespass, I would call the cops every single time. You could consider getting a restraining order (?) I don't know anything about them. Do you have to confront the individual to get one? I know it wouldn't help, but you would be documenting harassment.

A restraining order is a civil document, not a criminal one. A protective order is, but I doubt you have a case for its issuance. Harassment is very, very difficult to prove and is not really a good charge. You can get a criminal trespass order against him if he is on your property. And yes, it is the job of the police to respond when you need them...it sounds like you are a frequent flyer with them, but that is not always a bad thing. 911 hangups happen, we ALWAYS respond even when we get a call back. They get irritating when people let their kids play with the phone over and over, but once is understandable.

I am certainly NOT for getting into a gun battle with him. I am not sure how many CHL holders are actually prepared to shoot someone. I don't carry my weapon off duty because I am not prepared to get into a gun battle over anything. On duty, I have to, and I know with 100 percent surity that I would do it to protect myself or someone else. And I know that I am trained to shoot under stress and not hit a kid down the block. I don't know many CHL carriers that train under those conditions, and the statistics involved in civilian shootings weigh heavily in favor of the crazy people and against a casual passerby who gets caught in the crossfire. Find another option for that.

You are in a bad spot. I don't have good advice for you except to ride somewhere else. Being informed is a good thing. Is he a registered sex offender? On parole (in which case he cannot have a weapon even on his own property)? Have protective orders against him? Use whatever is public record. Get a big dog, be aware of what is going on around you, and notify the police of the situation (probably in person, go down and talk to an officer...a good way to start is probably "I know you guys have been out to my place before but....").

Bummer.

[staceysue]

Thank you all SO MUCH for understanding why I'm afraid and not acting like I'm some sort of chicken for being so scared! Also, thanks for not acting like I'm an idiot for calling the police for those other things in the past. And thanks for not thinking I'm some sort of fundamentalist nut or something for having a gun. I'm not a violent person at all, but I don't want to have to be afraid all of the time just because I'm a woman. I had two different men try to rape me when I was 14, and I'm not going to spend my life not doing things just because I'm afraid. I have every right to enjoy my life just as much as any man can enjoy his.

I decided to go ahead and try riding down that other road and see if I ran into him. If he was sitting in his house actually trying really hard to see me, he'd probably be able to, especially if he was using binoculars. On my way back, I could barely make out his 4-wheeler heading down his driveway but he must not have seen me because he didn't follow me.

I brought a small gun in my jacket pocket, and a knife in my pants. It was actually fine riding like that - it wasn't uncomfortable at all and it didn't stretch out my jacket. I'll plan on carrying both items all the time when I ride from now on. Even though he's armed, he doesn't know that I am. It's kind of like when a big dog chases you - the last thing they expect is for you to stop and confront them, and the last thing he'd expect would be for a woman to be armed.

I only went about 10 miles today but I feel like a different woman. It's amazing how much a little bit of exercise will elevate a person's mood.

I will go to the police station with my son and husband if I have another run-in with him. You're right. It's their job to protect people and, even though they wouldn't be able to get here fast enough to help me if he tried to hurt me, at least I'd have a report on file if anything happened. If he bothers me again I'll get a restraining order.

I wonder if he's schizophrenic and off his meds or something. If that's the case, they can bring him to the hospital and have him involuntarily admitted for a few days until they get him back on his medications. From what I've heard, his wife is actually crazier than he is - so he'll probably have to get into some sort of trouble before anybody brings him to the hospital.

Ginny, Mommybird, thanks for sharing your scary stories. I was starting to think there was something wrong with me - like I attract nut cases or something.

[tulip]

Please do re-read Kenyonchris' post about carrying a gun. She is a police officer, and I really respect her experience.

[staceysue]

A restraining order is a civil document, not a criminal one. A protective order is, but I doubt you have a case for its issuance. Harassment is very, very difficult to prove and is not really a good charge. You can get a criminal trespass order against him if he is on your property. And yes, it is the job of the police to respond when you need them...it sounds like you are a frequent flyer with them, but that is not always a bad thing. 911 hangups happen, we ALWAYS respond even when we get a call back. They get irritating when people let their kids play with the phone over and over, but once is understandable.

I am certainly NOT for getting into a gun battle with him. I am not sure how many CHL holders are actually prepared to shoot someone. I don't carry my weapon off duty because I am not prepared to get into a gun battle over anything. On duty, I have to, and I know with 100 percent surity that I would do it to protect myself or someone else. And I know that I am trained to shoot under stress and not hit a kid down the block. I don't know many CHL carriers that train under those conditions, and the statistics involved in civilian shootings weigh heavily in favor of the crazy people and against a casual passerby who gets caught in the crossfire. Find another option for that.

You are in a bad spot. I don't have good advice for you except to ride somewhere else. Being informed is a good thing. Is he a registered sex offender? On parole (in which case he cannot have a weapon even on his own property)? Have protective orders against him? Use whatever is public record. Get a big dog, be aware of what is going on around you, and notify the police of the situation (probably in person, go down and talk to an officer...a good way to start is probably "I know you guys have been out to my place before but....").

Bummer.

Yeah - the last thing I want is to be labeled a "frequent flyer" and not have their help if I need it some day. They've only actually been out here the two times, and both of them were 5 years ago (the time when my son accidentally dialed '911' and the time when the hunters were shooting guns outside my window). I did stop by the station about 6 months ago to let them know somebody was prowling on the property (now I think it was probably him) but the other calls were all a year ago or more. . . . .

I checked and he's not on the sexual offender list.

I have a big beautiful very protective German Shepherd. Too bad she couldn't keep up with me on my bike . . . . .

I am probably one of the very few CHL holders who is absolutely prepared to shoot somebody. . . . . but I don't want to talk any more about guns and shooting people anymore on here.

[sarahkonamojo]

Driving to bike would lower the stress of the situation and let you enjoy a ride without looking over your shoulder. Depending on your vehicle setup, it might be easier to load your bike in the back seat. Whatever makes it easier and the least amount of stress.

Sounds like an unfortunate situation. Neighbors are always an issue in the city or in the boonies. Why is getting along so difficult?

Sarah

[staceysue]

Driving to bike would lower the stress of the situation and let you enjoy a ride without looking over your shoulder. Depending on your vehicle setup, it might be easier to load your bike in the back seat. Whatever makes it easier and the least amount of stress.

Sounds like an unfortunate situation. Neighbors are always an issue in the city or in the boonies. Why is getting along so difficult?

Sarah

I drive a Prius - so it has a hatchback. There's plenty of room if I take off the wheel but it takes so much strength to open the "quick release" thing on the wheel and I'm afraid I'm not getting it on tight enough when I put it back on. Also, I'm always knocking the front brakes around when I lay the bike in the car . . . . . I know there's a very simple solution. People do it all the time!

Yeah - dumb ol' neighbors!

[lph]

I have absolutely no experience with this kind of thing, but it strikes me that this man sounds a little like an aggressive dog. If you can't reason with him, you can either confront him, or make him lose interest. By a confrontation you want to either shame him or scare him back, and both make him, in a sense, more "interested" in you, for lack of a better word. I'm not sure you want that level of attention, and it could make him want to get back at you somehow.

I'm not in any way saying you should skulk around and hide, but it may be that your best bet is making yourself "uninteresting". Either by ignoring him, if possible, or simply by removing yourself from his sight for a while so that he latches onto something else to do and forgets about his little "game".

But please do tell the police, and any neighbours you might have too.

PS. The quick-release on your wheel does not have to be on that tight. If you have to use a little effort - no leverage - to open it, that's plenty tight.

[Bike Chick]

I live in a rural area as well where the 4-wheelers outnumber the bicycles and had an incident last year with a family on our riding route over their dogs. We couldn't ride past the house without both dogs coming at us from both sides of the road. This particular evening, my husband sprayed the dogs as we went by and the woman of the house actually got in her SUV with her small children in the back and chased us down screaming and yelling and using language that made me blush---in front of her children. She threatened to call the police on us to which my husband replied "Go ahead. I'll call them too." I rode home to get our truck and my husband rode back to her house to wait on the police. While he waited by the mailbox, the neighbors surrounded him on their 4 wheelers riding in circles yelling how they saw him spray the dogs and calling him names. The sight of a man in spandex on a bicycle in this area of the world was as odd as snow in July.

I arrived the same time as the police and the officer was wonderful. They used the same language with him and demanded he arrest us. He told the dog owners they were lucky because he would've used his gun instead of pepper spray on the dogs and they were the ones in the wrong. It gave us some satisfaction but it didn't change a thing. They still let the dogs run loose and a week later they knocked an elderly man off his bike and sent him to the hospital. Because we had called the police and made an official report earlier, they were able to send animal control to the house this time and threaten to take the dogs. They still run loose but have been sprayed several times since and have learned to stay in the yard when we go by.

I agree with Kenyon Chris and kathi.......You should document what has happened and definitely make a report. It might help someone else who is having problems with this creep as well.

[kenyonchris]

Yeah - the last thing I want is to be labeled a "frequent flyer" and not have their help if I need it some day. They've only actually been out here the two times, and both of them were 5 years ago (the time when my son accidentally dialed '911' and the time when the hunters were shooting guns outside my window).

I am probably one of the very few CHL holders who is absolutely prepared to shoot somebody. . . . . but I don't want to talk any more about guns and shooting people anymore on here.

You would never NOT have their help regardless of how many times you called. It is our job to come, even if we have to come six times a night. Eventually one (not you) will get charged with filing a false report if we keep coming out for non-legitimate things, but it sounds like the things you have called about have been fine.

You brought up the gun as a method of self defense and have said you are carrying it, so I feel that it is an important point to address, and I hope to give you a qualified opinion on it so that you can be informed. If you carry it legally, and it makes you feel better, that's great. But please, PLEASE be aware that statistics put you at *greater* risk of shooting a bystander or putting yourself in harms way not to mention being criminally liable for the shooting (even if it is "justified"...you would be amazed). Shooting under stress decreases MY accuracy by 60% (or all LE), and I regularly shoot under stress (with sim rounds, when I am being shot at), for civilians without that training, the chances you will make a shot you would NORMALLY make decreases to 20%. If it is a difficult or moving target, less than 10%. That round that you miss has to go somewhere. Add to that the fact that reaction is slower than action, and the chances of a gun as an effective means of self defense outweigh the risks involved in carrying it. For home defense, when you have a chance to surprise someone, be on target, or even take a deep breath, the percentages are slightly more favorable.

I am in favor of putting your bike in the car and riding elsewhere so that you can ride unarmed. Use your gun for home protection. Carry pepper spray if you have trouble. Let the police know about your problems so they can check him out. If you catch him on your property get a criminal trespass order (remember, restraining orders are civil in nature only, no police can enforce it).

[redrhodie]

I drive a Prius - so it has a hatchback. There's plenty of room if I take off the wheel but it takes so much strength to open the "quick release" thing on the wheel and I'm afraid I'm not getting it on tight enough when I put it back on.

You can order a new quick release skewer for your wheel for around $15 or $20 (I can't remember, that might be for one or the pair, but either way, it's pretty cheap). I had one I hated on my commuter (it was a Specialized that came stock on my old bike, low end, and didn't lock unless I used all my strength, or asked for help, which was annoying), and got a much easier to use Shimano set that's taken the stress out of loading my bike in my car.

Good luck dealing with the nut-case!

[Lakerider]

I live in a rural area and don't ride in my neighborhood because the roads are curvy and hilly. Cars go by fast and I'm just chicken to ride under those conditions. :eek:

Rather than ride where I'm not comfortable my bike stays in the back of my van until I'm ready to ride. I have 3 neighborhoods in town where I ride and a few in other towns I go to when I can. Riding should be an enjoyable, stress free experience. I hope you can find good places to ride where you can relax and have a great time!:)

I hope the situation with your neighbor can be resolved so you can return to riding in your own neighborhood.

[kenyonchris]

If he bothers me again I'll get a restraining order.
(snip)
I wonder if he's schizophrenic and off his meds or something. If that's the case, they can bring him to the hospital and have him involuntarily admitted for a few days until they get him back on his medications.

You will need a protective order, not a restraining order. And you have to have more than what you have told us here to have one issued. Assault or something. It is a shame that something has to happen, but that is how it is.

The police can take him on an Emergency Medical detention only if he is proving to be an immediate and obvious threat to himself or someone else, not just because he is off his meds. I cannot stress the importance of reporting these incidents so that you have a history. And then avoid him like the plague.

[OakLeaf]

(((((((staceysue)))))))

So sorry you have to deal with this. I live in the country, too, and I completely understand everything you're saying.

I just have one thing to add:

You don't have to take your front wheel off to put your bike in a Prius. (Not unless you have passengers and need to keep the back seats up, anyhow.)

I don't take the wheel off my 50 cm road bike, and I've carried a buddy's 58 cm road bike, and there was room for a bike bigger than his. It slides right in.

You'd be amazed at what can go in the back of your Prius... and so will everyone at Best Buy. :D


KC, she has plenty to get a restraining order in Ohio. It's different in every state. As is the issue of whether it has to be a domestic situation, or whether stranger stalking qualifies. It wouldn't hurt to talk to a lawyer, although when someone's really wacko as this guy sounds like, it's debatable how much good a court order will do...

[Tuckervill]

Everyone's saying avoid him, but I don't have enough information to say that. I mean, no one has actually gone to his house and talked to him and expected him to be pleasant and conversational, have they?

I'm not saying invite him over for tea or anything. But I am saying, what's wrong with taking your husband by and being friendly and asking his name and stuff like that? Asking him not to follow you? Saying hi when you pass him?

He's not on the sex-offender registry, and that doesn't automatically make him an innocent bystander, but can't you allow a little room for better understanding? I'd be happier knowing I did everything I could, including trying to make this man at least an acquaintance, before I did anything radical like moving elsewhere. Sure, he's probably crazy, but I'd have to find out for sure, for myself.

Karen

[shootingstar]

Kenyon, your advice as a police officer re: civilian use of guns is appreciated.

[Skierchickie]

StaceySue,

How scary! I have to go with the majority here, and encourage you to find a route that feels safe. Whether you need to watch over your shoulder or not, you shouldn't have to wonder. Give yourself some peace of mind.

Definitely go and talk to the police. They need to know about this guy. If you feel threatened, they really need to know.

The thought of carrying a gun sounds scary to me - what if you crashed? Could you really pull it out fast enough to do any good? So many "what ifs". Even if you just point it at him, or even just show him that you have it - you don't know how he might react to that. I wouldn't confront this guy. I agree with Karen's suggestion to go over (with your DH - absolutely NOT alone) and meet him, ask him politely to not follow you, and try to be nice (but not so friendly that he thinks he can come over & visit). I wouldn't call the cops on the guy at this point without first asking him to stop, giving him that chance (although he had plenty of chances to not try to intimidate you, already). After that, if things don't improve - definitely. Neighbors can be tough to deal with - I would try to be amiable before doing anything that might set him off. Like lph said - make yourself less interesting. Less interesting and less accessible.

Stay safe out there.

[channlluv]

I agree with KenyonChris. I asked a police detective friend about getting a gun to carry in my car when DD and I went on our cross-country drive last summer, and he literally grimaced and said, "People like you are more likely to shoot themselves than someone trying to hurt you. Go get on of those girly tasers if you want a defensive weapon."

And by that, he meant a pink one, not the black one he keeps on his desk to intimidate students.

I think a taser is a good idea.

And I'd be scared, too.

Roxy

[KnottedYet]

If a man seems scary to you, or gives you a case of the creeps, or just plain sets off your instincts: GET AWAY RIGHT NOW!! NO BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT! NO "MAYBE HE'S NICE AND I'M MISJUDGING."

Talk to the police. Stay away from the scary man.

PM me if you want to.

[NbyNW]

+1 on avoiding any further encounters with the scary man. It sucks that you have to change your route, but the potential for this to escalate into something ugly is simply not worth it.

One other thing to add to the excellent advice that others have posted -- if you haven't already done so, it might help you feel more prepared to deal with a potential conflict if you were to take a self-defense course, especially one that addresses how women are approached/attacked. Ask the police officers when you talk to them, if any of them teaches self-defense, or if there is a community college near you that offers these courses.

I took an excellent course when I was in grad school a few years ago -- they talked about avoiding potential conflict/danger; asserting yourself as a means of warning someone who might be bothering you that you are not "easy prey"; breaking different kinds of holds; basic punching and that it's good to practice not broadcasting your punches. And we got plenty of scenario/role playing practice at all of this throughout the course.

Hopefully you never have to "use" any of this stuff; but in my experience, it's helped me to stay calm in a crisis and know that if someone came after me I would know how to handle it.

[MommyBird]

Do not wait for another event. Tell your local law enforcement agency now.

Do not go to his home, with or without your husband.
He wants to control you and showing him how nice you are will not change his mind.

Talk to your neighbors about their experiences with this guy. See if he is intimidating others or just stalking you.

Change your riding venue.
When I remove my front tire I find I get better leverage if I stand in front of the handlebars. I hold the bike up by pinching the front tire between my knees. Once I flip down the lever, I move behind the handlebars and bend over them to finish loosening. I can't even budge the quick release if I approach it from behind the bars. This works 100% even if my hubby was the one who last put the tire on.
I have a VW GTI hot hatch and my bike fits great.

[salsabike]

If a man seems scary to you, or gives you a case of the creeps, or just plain sets off your instincts: GET AWAY RIGHT NOW!! NO BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT! NO "MAYBE HE'S NICE AND I'M MISJUDGING."

Talk to the police. Stay away from the scary man.



Yup. We've had this conversation on here before. Gavin DeBecker, The Gift of Fear, trust your instincts.

[Trek420]

breaking different kinds of holds; basic punching and that it's good to practice not broadcasting your punches. And we got plenty of scenario/role playing practice at all of this throughout the course.

Out of shape out of practice Nidan (2nd degree black belt in Aikido) chimes in.

Yes, if it will help you to feel confident do take a self defense course. Good courses last 1-3 days.

Situational self defense does .... not .... work. Plenty of role playing practice? Ok :cool:

let's do a basic chokehold shall we?

Now from the rear
Again, 'cept now I'm grabbing your wrist
In motion, starts from in front and grab from behind.
grabs your wrist from the rear and instead of a chokehold there's a knife knife at the rear of your neck I've still got the arm
both hands now
back to the chokehold but it's a bar across the arm (there's quite a few ways to knock you out; one way you can breath but you'll pass out if you don't move fast, the other one you can't breath but if you'd just move the opposite way that your logic tells you) so we'll do all those including ....
with the lapel, not my arm ...
Front choke holds ....

martial arts is not a sport it's an addiction :rolleyes: There are infinite variations even grabbing a person with one hand. Say you get one technique sorta kinda right it's different with everyone, shorter, taller, stronger, more flexible .....

It's an art, it's part of my eclectic spiritual practice. I just hope and pray that I never ever have to use it again :o

If (hopefully not when) you need to use it there will not be a post-it telling you what to do. Your body must react from a primordial memory. That takes years of practice. You can not think. You must MOVE.

Move move move make noise move move move move move.

And never ever ever go to another location. I'd die trying to stay right there.

Training since about 1979 and every class I take my goal is maybe just maybe get one technique right ONCE. And speaking of training in Aikido we do a fair amount of knife defense, but every once in a while my teacher has someone attack with a live blade. It's training, in a class, but my eyes get big, this is intense. One missed response and I'll be cleaning blood off the mat, my blood for a while. If you think a few grabs, a couple releases in a class will work I am sad to tell you that is wrong. If you think in the fear, immediacy of a "real" situation maybe with a weapon or multiple attackers that you will react promptly and correctly from a few classes you may be dead wrong.

Situational self defense does not work. It's awesome crosstraining for cycling but not good self defense.

This works :cool:

http://www.impactbayarea.org

Find a class that teaches conflict avoidance and diffusion. The best self defense of all is to just not be in the fight in the first place. The fight that does not happen is the one you win.

And then if you can't avoid or diffuse the situation just artless, techniqueless mayhem brutality and utter destruction. In all my years of study I was amazed. There's little art to it, it's not pretty, it's not beautiful just hit them where it hurts and never stop until they are no longer a threat to you and you can take that any way you want.

Most real fights will start or end on the floor. Situational self defense will not work from there.

As for my training it's an art I hope to never use again. even in beautifully falling off the bike which it's helped a couple of times:p

This sounds a little discouraging so let me just end by saying I feel strongly that the best self defense is what we all do already. Get out there, look strong because we are strong, look fearless because we are fearless. Sure, bring a cell phone, trust your gut but by just being out there looking fabulous and strong that is truly the best self defense there is.

[owlice]

Definitely ride someplace else for a while. Get a bike rack if that's what's needed to transport your bike.

If this happened to me, I'd do the following -- aside from riding elsewhere, which is my first choice -- but I can't say I'm recommending this, because I am not you. I'm big and formidable, don't put up with much, and go to angry when I'm scared, which is why I'll probably be found in a ditch someday, and that's why I'm not recommending this, but I'd:


carry a cell phone, air horn, and camera with me
make a call -- or make it look as though I'm making a call -- every time this guy started to follow me once he was close enough to see me using the phone
take a picture -- or make it look as though I'm taking a picture -- of him following me
if he didn't back off when he saw me making the first call, I'd call again, and this time, really call someone, whether husband, son, friend, police, nearest neighbor


But really, ride somewhere else, and avoid this guy. Do not go to his house. Someone who is entertained or amused by scaring someone else (outside of a prankish "boo!" when someone is coming around a corner) is dangerous.

[krisl6]

I was also going to suggest a bike rack. That way you don't have to deal with taking the wheel off and putting it back on. I have one and it's so easy and convenient. Not to mention the inside of your car stays a lot cleaner. Good luck with finding a solution to dealing with this guy!

[Selkie]

Please do re-read Kenyonchris' post about carrying a gun. She is a police officer, and I really respect her experience.

Agree 100%.

Echo the advice of steering clear of him, not engaging him, and trusting your instincts.

[Trek420]

+1 what owlice says. 'cept the big and formidable thing. ;) I'm 53 years old, nearsighted, a little chubby, 5' nuthin, not intimidating in the least, slow to anger ....

Vary the route. Besides safety concerns of "she always rides here at 6am on Sunday" but it's fun to vary the route. It's good for training (or so I hear since I'm out of shape :p) and keeps everyone guessing ;)

Carry a cell phone at all times, keep it charged of course. If something feel odd make it a real call not a fake. Keep your eyes on the situation as you dial but call. I'd rather call to give my location and the situation and risk it being nothing really than not call.

Remember if you call 911 from a cell in most areas you reach highway patrol who has no clue where you are. If your dearie calls from home they have his location nearby at least. Its good idea for all of us to program the POTS (plain o' telephone service) number to police/highway patrol/medical into the cell of where we live, commute, ride. Not just situations like this one but you never know when another rider will need emergency help.

I think it was Velogirl on this board who a long time back wrote of being on a training ride way out in the wilds of the Bay Area (you'd be surprised how remote it can be/feel within sight of the the busy city) when a group ride came upon a rider down. Although everyone had cell phones between trying to direct Hwy patrol to the remote area and trying to get the nearest local number for medical it took and agonizing time to get help.

Whatever the emergency situation have that number programmed in even at home. It's rare but the 911 system can go down.

But anyway I'd avoid the nutzo neighbor.

[NbyNW]

Move move move make noise move move move move move.


Pretty much what I did the time I found a burglar in my house. And then I got to a phone and called 911.

Trek420, I agree with everything you said. I've done only some martial arts and want to do more, can appreciate the art & technique vs. the reality of a serious threat. Your experiences speak very well to this point and I could not have said it better.

[Tuckervill]

ah sheesh. I'm just surprised that the fearful reaction is so extreme and final. There are so many many possibilities here, and I'm open to them all. I'm not going to automatically assume that the most likely thing is that he's going to attack. If he wanted to, he could have, many tmes already. Why didn't he? There is probably a reason besides "yet".

She LIVES down the street from this guy. Having a (safe distance) conversation with him and learning his NAME is not outside the realm of reasonable possibilities. "what if what if what if" What if simply speaking to him was like sticking a pin in his little scary balloon and he never bothered her again? That is JUST as likely (in fact more likely, since the incident of attack is far less common than simple every day interactions between strangers) as any of the scenarios that are being imagined, because no one HERE knows enough to make the judgment.

Again and again in my life I have befriended or at least neutralized difficult people; come to terms with their craziness or unpredictability or eccentricities or just creepiness; just by acknowledging their humanity, and TRUSTING MY INSTINCTS.

I'm just saying that she has not done everything I would do before I took drastic, final action. My instincts have spoken. :)

Karen

[Shara]

Kenyon, your advice as a police officer re: civilian use of guns is appreciated.

Ditto.

And I really think you need to file a report with the police. Go down there and talk to them. Just because you've called before doesn't mean you shouldn't call now. You need to have a record of what is going on with him. What if, (worst case scenario, knock on wood it doesn't happen) you actually do have an encounter with him? I think having previous incidences on record would show that he has been harassing you and you were taking action to stop him. Even if there wasn't anything police could do you did what you could.

We do a lot of things to keep ourselves safe while we are out there, like considering road conditions and weather conditions, putting on protective gear, etc. Try to not feel too bad about having to change your route. Just think of it as something extra you can do to protect yourself. This isn't your fault and it's not something you have in your control but you should be able to avoid him and continue peacefully.

BTW I really liked the air horn idea. A good loud one that would attract the attention of your neighbours. I'd also talk to your neighbours about what is happening and make sure they are reporting any incidences regarding him.

Lots of (((hugs))). I hope this passes for you soon. Has he lived there long? Or (wishful thinking) does he happen to rent?

[Trek420]

Pretty much what I did the time I found a burglar in my house. And then I got to a phone and called 911.

Trek420, I agree with everything you said. I've done only some martial arts and want to do more, can appreciate the art & technique vs. the reality of a serious threat. Your experiences speak very well to this point and I could not have said it better.

OMG. I can't imagine. :eek: OMG, I'm so glad that you're ok.

Martial arts is great cross training, good for the core, balance, agility, range of motion, keeps you calm and focused ... all of which is great for cycling.

But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.

I know now what I did in the moment, in other words the person was here, I did this or that ... but in the heat of the moment it just happens there's no thought involved. If you're right that's great and if not .... :(

One situation was in hindsight a little funny. A coworker not knowing that I train (she does now :rolleyes:) staged a prank of someone sticking a gun at the small of my back (which I now know was an umbrella) at an ATM and robbing me.

Lot's of thoughts went through my head in the nano seconds mostly "I can stand here and get shot through the spine or I can die moving".

Boyohboy was she surprised fractions of a second later she was almost going face first through the ATM. Realizing it was her I stopped short but with her in a pin till I knew what was going on. :mad:

Now she knows that's not funny :rolleyes:

But burglar in the home? OMG, what happened? I'm glad that you're ok! And I hope he did not get any of the bikes. :cool:

[hoffsquared]

Maybe a rack for your Prius is something to think about.

Thule (http://www.juicedhybrid.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=912&site=google_base)has one. Here (http://www.juicedhybrid.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HR_Commuter&site=google_base)is another one. And another one (http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm?fa=p&pid=6424&sc=52219&mr:trackingCode=5ED7B53D-4A97-DE11-93DB-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA).

[Trek420]

When it comes to women's self defense IMHO whatever works, let's you survive or avoid the situation. There is no one way, grasshoppers :rolleyes:

If it felt funny/odd/dangerous and yet somehow you live - you're doing it right.

If the burglar was in your home and yet somehow you live - you did it right.

As I can attest there is NO 'safe distance" :o There are times I may walk right up and shake the persons hand and introduce myself, there are times that small voice says "turn left here, don't go down that road".

It's all takemusu (the Aikido that invents itself. Or at least I've been told that sorta what that means. It might mean "root beer float" for all the Japanese I know ;))

[NbyNW]

But burglar in the home? OMG, what happened?

My dog & I came home from a 20 minute walk, middle of the day, and heard a ruckus in the basement. Spidey-sense starts tingling. I called out, wondering if my husband had gotten home early and was tearing apart the house for some reason. Instead, some punk I never saw before starts walking out of the basement (we had a split-level entry, and I was still upstairs from him on the landing. He saw me and my dog and ducked back into the basement.

Full adrenalin-rush: I just started yelling, GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT HELP THERE'S SOMEONE IN MY HOUSE! HELP! POLICE! CALL 911! HELP HELP HELP!

This is where, with all the adrenalin, I did feel like taking self-defense and a very tiny bit of wing chun, helped me keep my wits. I had forgotten my cell phone (which I later found by the door) and all I wanted was to call 911. And I had to make a quick decision. So I had to go with my gut as to whether it was safe to run inside/upstairs to grab a phone. Which I did, yelling all the way, thankfully did not encounter anyone else, ran back to the front of the house, called 911, and waited until the police came.

On the one hand I felt silly yelling because my rational brain kept saying, "no one is going to hear you -- everyone is at work and you just saw the postal carrier go in the other direction." But I felt right doing it because it was the best way to assert my presence and my intentions. Also, I am small and soft-spoken but I know how to use my lungs and project my voice when I have to. (We had women in my class who didn't seem to know how to do that, so the class was a safe place for them to get introduced to those "yelling" muscles)

The punk(s?) was gone by the time the police came. We found that they had gotten in through the kitchen window (it was hot, we didn't have AC, and everyone was leaving their windows open that week), bagged up most of my jewelry and electronics and left them in the kitchen, and were busy sacking the basement when I interrupted them. They escaped through the basement windows (there were two exit points) and left the valuables. All they got away with were our Nintendo Wii, accessories & games, and some DVDs (seasons 1 & 2 of The Family Guy (grrr!) and The Ben Stiller Show). It could have been much worse, thankfully it wasn't.

It took a few days for my body to calm down after that incident. I'm pretty sure my dog has not recovered, as he started barking at any visitors we had, the postal carrier, etc. and has some ongoing reactive behaviors.

[arielmoon]

I have been thinking about your situation all morning. It just stinks!

Some great advice here though... as always!

((((TE members))))

[lunacycles]

Tuckerville said:



She LIVES down the street from this guy. Having a (safe distance) conversation with him and learning his NAME is not outside the realm of reasonable possibilities. "what if what if what if" What if simply speaking to him was like sticking a pin in his little scary balloon and he never bothered her again? That is JUST as likely (in fact more likely, since the incident of attack is far less common than simple every day interactions between strangers) as any of the scenarios that are being imagined, because no one HERE knows enough to make the judgment.

Again and again in my life I have befriended or at least neutralized difficult people; come to terms with their craziness or unpredictability or eccentricities or just creepiness; just by acknowledging their humanity, and TRUSTING MY INSTINCTS.

I'm just saying that she has not done everything I would do before I took drastic, final action. My instincts have spoken.

Karen
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
insidious ungovernable cardboard

I heartily agree with Tuckerville, though this does not appear to be a popular position on this board.

Speaking of martial arts, I once heard a great story told by Ram Dass about a tiny little old man, an Aikido master, who calmed down a very scary and aggressive man who was threatening people on an inner-city subway by simply connecting with him and not treating him like he was a very scary and aggressive man. The big, scary man just wanted to be seen. I am not saying this is the same scenario at all, and if I were the OP, I would definitely be feeling some fear and taking precautions, but I do think living as a captive in your own neighborhood is not a great option, living in fear of someone only generates more fear in the world (and makes you a victim), and there may be an alternative that might be more healing and liberating for both parties than arming yourself to the teeth and/or completely avoiding any possibility of ever coming into contact with him.

Really, though, good luck. It certainly sounds like a challenging situation.

[Trek420]

.... but I do think living as a captive in your own neighborhood is not a great option, living in fear of someone only generates more fear in the world (and makes you a victim), and there may be an alternative that might be more healing and liberating for both parties than arming yourself to the teeth and/or completely avoiding any possibility of ever coming into contact with him.

Agreed! Staying huddled inside your house unless out with the gattling gun is not acceptable.

[shootingstar]

\But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.

I must compliment you on your creative self-expression. It's eye-catching imagery. :p

Stacy, let us know in the end....hopefully a good result that keeps you safe but still motivated to keep cycling.

[NbyNW]

But I think you could ask anyone in any art and we don't train to be the biggest baddest MF on the block :rolleyes: I've "used it in real life" a couple-a times and never ever ever ever wanna do that again.

I want to train all my life till I'm a little bitty old lady in a hakama but I never want to "use it". And I think that's true for all of us in these arts.


I look at it this way: when you study the martial arts, part of that training is that when you spar/fight it is against an opponent with whom you carry mutual respect and honor. It's not just physical training, it's training for your entire person. It may be about having the right attitude or it can be much more philosophical or spiritual, depending on what you are studying and who is teaching you. And it's that benefit of cultivating and balancing the whole person that makes studying martial arts so interesting and worthwhile. That's just my newbie 2 cents.

Confronting someone who is (actually or potentially) committing a crime against you is totally different. The person committing the crime has already made the decision to disrespect your personal space and/or your property, etc. They are not operating by the same rules that you use in a martial arts context. Every situation is different, and sometimes you will have time to consider your response and in other situations you just have to react.

I was so lucky that my home burglary did not develop into a physical confrontation. I cannot know what would have happened. I know that I would have fought like crazy, but just as likely I would have gotten hurt or worse.

Back to the OP's situation -- you have lots of food for thought here and I hope you and your family are able to settle on a course of action that you are comfortable with, both in terms of what you can do now with what you know, as well as being prepared in case things escalate.

[Trek420]

That's just my newbie 2 cents.

That's a good $0.02 at any rank:D You will get to train with people who push the boundaries a bit. And we need that too.

I've had some interesting training moments with students, mostly male, and mostly flat out beginners :rolleyes: who just do not like to be thrown by a woman. ;)

Think the MA version of male cyclists who do anything not to be "girl'd".

This can be amusing in an art that simply favors experience, skill, training over strength, height, speed .... practically anything else.

NbyNW, glad your confrontation was ok. Stuff is just stuff, it can be replaced. What matters is that you are ok. That's what matters most for us all; have fun, be safe, ride ride ride ride!

[staceysue]

Wow - I'm overwhelmed by the number of responses. I wish I could respond to each one individually - so many great suggestions and interesting and scary stories (VERY scary) and just . . . sniff . . . this is the world's most supportive forum.

I changed my route but haven't gone so far as to get in the car and driving somewhere different. I have such a short time before work to get a good ride in. If I had to drive somewhere, I wouldn't be able to ride before work every day. The route I'm going has some spots where he could see me if he was looking for me, but he'd have to be looking and I honestly don't think he's THAT obsessed.

I've dealt with a lot of insane people at work (ER nurse) and in my life (lots of crazy family members) and I have learned the very hard way that trying to reason with them or befriend them is not a good idea. They're not reasonable and they're just wired differently. He's been out in the road waving a gun around at cars going by (including my son's car). I've heard stories from other people about him. I'm not going to go introducing myself to him or giving him any encouragement. Talking to him, looking at him, riding past his house . . . . all that's encouragement. I do not want to attract further interest in any way. Although he's been seen prowling around on our property, I'm holding out the hope that he doesn't know who I am or where I live. He may not have put 2 & 2 together yet.

The people who own the camp behind our property had some major run-ins with him. They started out trying to reason with him, then fought with him, but no matter what they did he just got more and more aggitated and obsessed with the conflict. He gets whipped into a frenzy. They ended up building a heavy locked gate across their driveway and renting a backhoe to dig trenches on either side. The police and a lawyer were involved at some point but nothing short of locking him up would work.

If I call the police, I'm afraid they'll go talk to him. If they go talk to him, things will really escalate. He WANTS to make people afraid, and he enjoys conflict, and he's completely unreasonable. He loves negative attention.

The neighbors across the field from us had some problems with him, too. I know at one point some of the people he was harassing got some sort of posse together and snuck over to his house and cut off the tops of all his apple trees in the middle of the night - not a good way to calm him down, for sure! :rolleyes:

Anyways - I think I might already be off his radar. I'm on the new route and I'm keeping my eyes open for him. I've never seen him on that road before and if I see him coming I'll figure something out. He's got to be in his 60s at least. He's big and strong but I'll bet he's not very fast. I'll run between some trees - somewhere where his 4-wheeler won't fit - and dial 911 (the cops are only 30 minutes away!) and lay down on the ground with my gun . . . and that's totally not going to happen. He's not THAT crazy - he just likes scaring people. If he actually liked hurting people, he'd be in jail by now.

I was really afraid at first, but everything will be alright. He's not obsessed with me, in particular.

Thanks again, everybody.

[redrhodie]

Sounds good. I think it's a smart plan. Now you can carry on with your life, but you have an idea of what to do next should things move to another level.

[kenyonchris]

(((((((staceysue)))))))

KC, she has plenty to get a restraining order in Ohio. It's different in every state. As is the issue of whether it has to be a domestic situation, or whether stranger stalking qualifies. It wouldn't hurt to talk to a lawyer, although when someone's really wacko as this guy sounds like, it's debatable how much good a court order will do...

A *restraining* order is a civil order, not a criminal one! It is NOT criminally enforceable (I believe it is the same in every state). A PROTECTIVE order IS criminally enforceable, but must be ordered by a judge, not a lawyer. Again, I believe it is the same in every state. You call a cop out for a violation of a restraining order and there is NOTHING I can do about it (unless another crime, say trespassing, is occurring). Based upon what she has said, she probably has enough for a criminal trespass warning. She may have enough for a restraining order, I'm not a lawyer so don't know, but unless she wants her lawyer to come out and help her, it is pretty much useless.

What she is doing now is good...avoidance and awareness. I am hoping she has changed her mind about the gun issue, but that is up to her if she is carrying it legally. If it continues or escalates, filing a report and/or requesting extra patrol to establish history is critical. A good department will take her seriously and, if this guy has done this before, has probably dealt with him in the past.

[OakLeaf]

Here's a general summary (http://law.jrank.org/pages/2143/Stalking-State-federal-anti-stalking-laws.html). The National Crime Victims' Center supposedly has a state-by-state analysis, but I can't get to their site, maybe my security settings are too high for them. :rolleyes:

"Restraining order" is a general term; a civil protective (or protection) order is a type of restraining order. Violation of a civil protective order is a crime in most states. Some states go so far as to require a particular police response to a report of violation of a CPO.

Any court order has to be issued by a judge. But most states don't have a special procedure for stalking victims to go to court pro se, so as with any court appearance, it's best to be represented by a lawyer.

But as I said - this is mainly academic, since it sounds like staceysue's stalker is likely to be the kind of person who would just be inflamed by receiving a summons, and who would completely ignore a court order.

[sundial]

I'm not going to automatically assume that the most likely thing is that he's going to attack. If he wanted to, he could have, many tmes already. Why didn't he? There is probably a reason besides "yet".


Tuck, I've been thinking about what you've stated and I've been stewing over this as well. What you have suggested is an interesting approach and could potentially diffuse the situation under the right circumstances. :)

From the description of the man, my initial thought is this guy's brain may be affected by drug abuse. He doesn't seem to be able to rationalize or process what he deems as a potentially threatening encounter with his neighbors. Instead, he escalates quickly and poses as a threat to not only himself but others as well.

If he is not a victim of substance abuse than he may be chronically mentally ill. Again, if he is experiencing an episode of delusional thoughts he will have difficulty controlling his reactions when encountering individuals--especially if he's paranoid. There is no reasoning with someone when they are escalating--there is only minimizing the situation by 1) not triggering it or 2) reducing it through medical intervention and therapy.

Staceysue, I understand your frustration with having to alter your route but if I were in your shoes I would avoid a chance encounter with this individual. I hope your new routine can offer you peace of mind. :) Stay safe, enjoy the fresh air, and bask in the beauty of fall.

[Tuckervill]

Until Stacey posted her response with further details, I was willing to fight to the death for my response. But, since she is not just going on hearsay of the neighbors, etc., and more details are added, I now know enough to say, "Stay as far away as possible."

Karen

[sundial]

You are a very diplomatic and cordial person, Karen, and I respect your approach. :)

[kenyonchris]

Here's a general summary (http://law.jrank.org/pages/2143/Stalking-State-federal-anti-stalking-laws.html). The National Crime Victims' Center supposedly has a state-by-state analysis, but I can't get to their site, maybe my security settings are too high for them. :rolleyes:

"Restraining order" is a general term; a civil protective (or protection) order is a type of restraining order. Violation of a civil protective order is a crime in most states. Some states go so far as to require a particular police response to a report of violation of a CPO.

Any court order has to be issued by a judge. But most states don't have a special procedure for stalking victims to go to court pro se, so as with any court appearance, it's best to be represented by a lawyer.

But as I said - this is mainly academic, since it sounds like staceysue's stalker is likely to be the kind of person who would just be inflamed by receiving a summons, and who would completely ignore a court order.

Most people use "restraining order" when they mean "protective order", so if the term is to be used interchangeably, OK, but what she would want here, should circumstances warrant, is a protective order... all court documents are issued and signed by a judge (and, in some cases, the protective order is issued regardless of whether the victim wants it or not, and remain in place until the judge sees fit or the time elapses, which varies from state to state). Here in Texas, we must respond in a certain way to violations of protective orders in the matters of family violence (which 80% of them are), and, honestly, anyone I come across who has violated it goes to jail. They are issued for a reason (the judge has seen fit to issue it) so I would rather hook someone up for violating a protective order than go back to take an assault report or worse.

Just FYI as to how we respond and to what. Also...a PO is entered into TCIC/NCIC and we know it exists as soon as we identify someone through dispatch. We know who it is for and why it was issued against whom. A civil restraining order, no (obviously). The only thing we can enforce there is violating a court document (at best), and the court documents must be produced. We don't have to actually lay eyes on the PO to enforce it.

From what Stacey has said, I am not sure she has grounds for either...I gave her what I would tell anyone who came to the station and asked me what to do about a similar situation...let us know and be aware, get a CT order if he appears on her property, document, document, document every negative contact with him (harrassment is very difficult to enforce effectively without state mandated documentation), please stay away from handguns, and let us do our job if we need to. That is why we get paid the big bucks. :)

And bike away....just somewhere else.

[staceysue]

please stay away from handguns, and let us do our job if we need to. That is why we get paid the big bucks. :)

And bike away....just somewhere else.

I know a lot of police officers - one of my very good friends is a police officer, and I've just got to know a lot of them over the years through working in the ER and stuff. They're wonderful people and I'm sure you're a wonderful person, and they go above and beyond to keep people safe. I am certain that if I dialed '911' they would be in their cars on their way here in the blink of an eye, and they definitely EARN their pay because dealing with all those pain-in-the-butt criminals is a real pain-in-the-butt (that's why I left the ER - because when the criminals aren't in jail they're in the ER trying to scam us out of narcotics).

That being said, though . . . . I have a RIGHT to bicycle where I want to bicycle and no man on this earth has any right to keep me from doing so. No police officer can be beamed to me instantly if I'm in danger. I have gone above and beyond to stay out of this man's reach and not draw his attention, and I will continue to only travel the new route (which, by the way, keeps me out of my favorite cycling area). However, if he finds me on this route I will NOT give up cycling every day! This is my life, I only get one of them, and I want to freaking cycle!!! Loading up my bike, driving somewhere, riding, loading it up again and coming home, then showering and getting ready for work is just not going to happen. I drive 64 miles each way to work and back and I don't have time to waste.

I love police, OK? They're generally really good people. And I respect all of the training you do with your guns and everything and if I could have you with me all of the time, that would be awesome. But - you're not here. Therefore, I've had to do training with MY gun and, though I pray I won't have to use it, I have the right.

What's safer for me? Cycle with a gun or cycle without a gun? Depends on whether or not I use my head. And I wasn't going to go into this on here, but I've seen a lot of people die. I've been in a lot of terrible situations and I'm well-known for being the one person who can be counted on not to panic. My head works pretty darn good.

And I don't live in a place where there are 'innocent bystanders'! I know how to look and make sure that if I miss I won't be hitting somebody's cow or something - but just open up google earth and look up the upper peninsula of Michigan if you want to see where I am. I live in a freaking wilderness. I'm surrounded by thousands of acres of national forest. It's a little bit different than the places where 90% of the word's population live.

Yesterday was the opening day of deer season, so for now I will be doing the dreaded 'load the bike up in the car' thing. I'm listening to guns going off around me from sunrise to sunset until all the freaking tourists go home. From November 15 until ski season every year - that's the only time I'll be loading my bike up in the car.

Hunters - THOSE are people who don't freaking know how to look where they're shooting. Grrr.

[Pax]

staceysue - You live in the UP??? Cool!!! That is one unpopulated place all right, I love visiting up there...no people and no huge highways = heaven!!

[kenyonchris]

you're not here.[/I] Therefore, I've had to do training with MY gun and, though I pray I won't have to use it, I have the right.

Hunters - THOSE are people who don't freaking know how to look where they're shooting. Grrr.

Agreed on that. On of our MTB trails is shared with a public (posted) hunting area...I am amazed as it is within range of homes.

This isn't a gun forum, I brought it up because of statistics. You certainly do have the right to bike where you want, and if you carry legally, carry if you want. I could put on my badge and gun and ride through south Dallas if I wanted, I certainly have the right. But why invite the problem is my point. You shouldn't have to. The fact that he is your neighbor is a problem (I have a problem neighbor myself), and you are probably smart to keep your gun in your home for home protection. My only point was relevant to the BIKE.

My comments are only based on experience and my opinion and the statistical facts regarding firearms...and, having gone through police bike school where we ride and shoot, I have some authority on this (it is very different, your muscles do different things).

But you seem to have a handle on things. Good luck. Stay safe.

[OakLeaf]

I haven't figured out how to embed video here, but here's a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oDzOnAcATE) to a YouTube video of me loading my bike into my Prius. HTH.

I had to do the upload twice, because after all this, I closed the hatch at the end of the video and my license plate was clearly visible. :rolleyes: D'oh! So I learned a little bit about iMovie just now. :p

[shootingstar]

I drive 64 miles each way to work and back and I don't have time to waste.

In my last job I had a convoluted work commute --1.5+ hrs. one way. For 3 yrs. Not even by car at all. Distance by the route I took was 80+ kms. round trip daily... a blend of bike, commuter train (get off bike to park it), train, then bus, then walk to worksite in 1 one way. On my way home, I biked a longer distance deliberately for fitness and destressing.

If I had biked all the way, round trip, it would have been a 103+ kms. because of detours due highway sections illegal for cycling. I have done this trip.....on weekends for bike fitness because parts of it is beautiful. :p

So I understand how demanding commute travel time can be.

As a suggestion,bring your bike and cycle in the workplace area during lunch hr. I have worked for other employers where there were some other employees who did make the effort to fit in fitness bike ride during noon hr. near place of work.

Just a thought.

[staceysue]

having gone through police bike school where we ride and shoot, I have some authority on this (it is very different, your muscles do different things).

But you seem to have a handle on things. Good luck. Stay safe.

Bike AND shoot? You mean, like, shoot while you're on a bike?? heheheheheh now I see where the confusion came in. Nah - I certainly wasn't envisioning myself doing that, even in the worst type of emergency. :D

[staceysue]

staceysue - You live in the UP??? Cool!!! That is one unpopulated place all right, I love visiting up there...no people and no huge highways = heaven!!


Say ya to da UP, eh?

[staceysue]

I haven't figured out how to embed video here, but here's a link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oDzOnAcATE) to a YouTube video of me loading my bike into my Prius. HTH.

I had to do the upload twice, because after all this, I closed the hatch at the end of the video and my license plate was clearly visible. :rolleyes: D'oh! So I learned a little bit about iMovie just now. :p

Did you go to all that trouble just for me, OakLeaf? That is so sweet. You make it look so easy and now I'm going to do it too!

I can't cycle on my breaks, ShootingStar, but I appreciate the suggestion. I do get a chance to go to the hospital gym for 15 minutes and do crunches, though - and I'm very grateful for that! It's nice to hear from someone who knows what it's like to commute so far.

I applied for a job with the forest service - only 9.5 miles from my house! If I get it I'll be able to cycle to work every day in less time than it takes me to drive to work now. That would just be so awesome.

[channlluv]

I can't imagine trying to carry a gun on a bike. I can barely manage my cell phone, and I'd be afraid to drop that before I could make any kind of call while I'm riding.

Good luck, Stacey Sue, whatever you decide to do here.

I do hope it involves making a formal report to the police, though. I had a problem last spring that I had tried to ignore for several months, but when the person involved crossed the line and I had to take action, a lawyer friend explained to me that I really didn't have much of a case because I only had single incident (sexual harassment at work) to report, whereas if I'd been making reports on all the previous incidents, and if other women in the office had as well (they hadn't, I asked), then we would have had a pattern of behavior on record that would have established a better case and things would have turned out differently.

You have to establish a pattern of behavior. I told my female colleagues and students to start keeping a record of offenses. Dates, times, details, and to report it. As it was, I couldn't keep working there under the circumstances. so I transferred to the online division, which is so much better for me, I can't even tell you how much happier I am, so I'm the winner anyway, but he's still there, still doing what he does, I'm sure.

The key is establishing the pattern of behavior and that means making formal reports. Call the police. Get your neighbors to call, too. Establish that pattern.

Good luck to all of you.

Roxy

[hoffsquared]

I applied for a job with the forest service - only 9.5 miles from my house! If I get it I'll be able to cycle to work every day in less time than it takes me to drive to work now. That would just be so awesome.

Hope this works out for you! Good luck.

[Tuckervill]

Maybe you can't ride on your breaks, but can you go to town before your shift in plenty of time to take a ride there? Or after?

Karen

[kenyonchris]

Bike AND shoot? You mean, like, shoot while you're on a bike?? heheheheheh now I see where the confusion came in. Nah - I certainly wasn't envisioning myself doing that, even in the worst type of emergency. :D

Well, no. What we do is a drill where we pedal at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, then full speed for one mile, ditch the bike, run about 50 feet, get on target, then shoot. Your muscles, legs arms and core, take a few seconds to adjust, you have adrenaline and lactic acid in your muscles. You would be amazed at how many of the guys fell the few steps after ditching the bike and became very inaccurate. We all shot a little group to begin with to compare. As expected, accuracy decreased (and we were shooting stationary targets at only about 15 yards) when speed increased, but *everyone* was more inaccurate (some more than others) at even 1/4 power for a mile on the bike.

[lph]

You would be amazed at how many of the guys fell the few steps after ditching the bike and became very inaccurate.

Yup. Everybody at my workplace got to try a biathlon course once (xc skiing followed by rifle shooting) and we had a short relay race. We were terrible. Even the avid hunters shot all over the place when out of breath and with a high HR.

[Biciclista]

I'm late to this discussion, but i want to thank kenyonchris for taking so much time to respond to this problem. IT seems that all I ever hear lately as a response to perceived bad guys is to "get a gun" which always seemed arrogant and naive to me.
Chris is the lone voice in the wilderness for me anyway; dispelling the notion that every Tom, **** or harry, or Sue, Ann and Stacey are protecting themselves by carrying a firearm.

Stacey, you assured us that you were the calmest person in a storm or stressful situation, but it was also you who was
1/ afraid to go riding (read the title of this thread)
2/unable to get your wheel off your bike.
3/afraid of a confrontation with the police because you feel you've called 911 too often.

It sounds to me that you are every bit as affected by stress as anyone else. And I have to agree with someone else here; what if you fell? ouch.

As I read to the end of the thread, it sounds like you have relaxed, good luck, keep riding, and enjoy your wilderness. (and your other neighbors don't sound so great either, topping trees?? no wonder he drives around waving a gun!)

[Pax]

... IT seems that all I ever hear lately as a response to perceived bad guys is to "get a gun" which always seemed arrogant and naive to me.

I'm curious about this statement, why arrogant and naive? Usually when I hear this type of name calling regarding guns it's because the person doing the name calling has a strong negative opinion of guns to begin with.

[Biciclista]

I think it is arrogant and naive to suggest that so many problems can be solved with a gun. I think it is arrogant and naive to suggest that if this person or that family had had a gun, their house wouldn't have been broken into, or they would not have been injured by a bad guy. The suggestion that being armed with a dangerous weapon will solve the problem of violence seems naive to me, and arrogant.
It's hard to not be prejudiced against guns when one of your loved ones is dead because he shot himself in the head when things weren't going good for him... but Pax, we're pushing this WAY off topic and i would be happy to discuss with you somewhere else.

[silver]

I'm also late to this discussion and i only want to address your loading the bike issues.

"I thought about it - but I have to put my bike in the back of my car and I have a problem taking my wheel off and putting it back on. The brakes always get out of alignment. I know it's because I'm kind of new to riding and I'm doing something wrong."

Please consider going to your bike shop for a bit of maintenance and possibly ask them to help you practice. the fact that your brakes move so easily is cause for concern and needs to be corrected.

The quick release should not be so difficult for you to release. The bike shop should release it and properly tighten it for you. When the lever is pressed down to engage it, it should only leave a light impression on your hand. that way it should be fairly easy to undo. It could be that you need a different type (the bike shop should let you try several different types) or possibly the hinge needs to be lubricated (don't do this yourself unless you know exactly what to do).

Also, If you brakes are getting out of alignment when you pack your bike, then the brakes are not properly tightened onto the frame. The shop should tighten them and then show you how to check this and also how to straighten the brakes if they do get out of alignment.

Finally, you may already know this, but always remember to pack your bike with the crankset up, so as not to mess up the derailliers.

[zoom-zoom]

Say ya to da UP, eh?

*waves from the lower peninsula* All this talk of the UP and hunting just gave me the worst earworm -- "Tirdy Point Buck!" :D

[Pax]

I think it is arrogant and naive to suggest that so many problems can be solved with a gun. I think it is arrogant and naive to suggest that if this person or that family had had a gun, their house wouldn't have been broken into, or they would not have been injured by a bad guy. The suggestion that being armed with a dangerous weapon will solve the problem of violence seems naive to me, and arrogant.
It's hard to not be prejudiced against guns when one of your loved ones is dead because he shot himself in the head when things weren't going good for him... but Pax, we're pushing this WAY off topic and i would be happy to discuss with you somewhere else.

Your point is abundantly and tediously clear, I'll just drop it because there is absolutely no chance of reasonable discussion.

[channlluv]

What the h-e-double hockey sticks is an earworm?

:)

Roxy

[zoom-zoom]

What the h-e-double hockey sticks is an earworm?

:)

Roxy

Those annoying songs that get stuck in your head. Da Yoopers have quite a few. :)

[Biciclista]

Those annoying songs that get stuck in your head. Da Yoopers have quite a few. :)

and they're usually something you never liked in the first place!

[Zen]

You can get rid of an earworm (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ear+worm) by singing the theme song from Gilligan's Island.

[Biciclista]

You can get rid of an earworm (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ear+worm) by singing the theme song from Gilligan's Island.

but that IS an earworm :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[zoom-zoom]

and they're usually something you never liked in the first place!

Or a song that you liked before it became a top-40 hit for months on end and played at least once/hour on the radio. After a while even the best songs can drive a person nuts.

[Owlie]

You can get rid of an earworm (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ear+worm) by singing the theme song from Gilligan's Island.

My friend's earworm cure-all is "Yellow Submarine." It seems not to work for other Beatles songs.

[Zen]

but that IS an earworm :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Try singing it and see if you remember the words. I don't think it qualifies as an earworm.

[owlice]

Now what's playing on the radio in my head is a song about a submarine on an island, dangfraznabbit. Thanks, just thanks a LOT for that.

:: tries to dislodge earworm by singing ::

It's a world of laughter, a world or tears
Its a world of hopes, Its a world of fear
There's so much that we share
That it's time we're aware
It's a small world after all

It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small yellow Gillian.

[zoom-zoom]

My son has been on a Sound of Music jag lately...chock full of earworms, but I like those. I don't think there's such a thing as too much Lonely Goatherd.

[owlice]

You fill up my sennnnnnses
Like a night in a forest
Like the mountains in springtiiiime
Like a walk in the raaaaaain
Like a storm in the desert
Like a sleepy blue ocean
You fill up my senses, come fill me again.

[kenyonchris]

Now what's playing on the radio in my head is a song about a submarine on an island, dangfraznabbit. Thanks, just thanks a LOT for that.

:: tries to dislodge earworm by singing ::

It's a world of laughter, a world or tears
Its a world of hopes, Its a world of fear
There's so much that we share
That it's time we're aware
It's a small world after all

It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small world after all
It's a small yellow Gillian.

I, for one, have to suppress my urge to throw a shoe at those little dolls. Now it is stuck in my head. Earworm.

[OakLeaf]

Good grief, has this thread drifted or what. :p

For me, the only cure for an earworm is to listen to the song in question. I know I have three or four songs in my iTunes library that I've bought solely to cure an earworm. It gets to that point, it's worth $0.99.

[Blueberry]

I cannot listen to Clint Eastwood by the Gorillaz or it is stuck in my head for weeks. There is no cure for that one.

Thankfully, I've had more pleasant songs in my head of late:)

CA

[ginny]

My son has been on a Sound of Music jag lately...chock full of earworms, but I like those. I don't think there's such a thing as too much Lonely Goatherd.

LOVE IT! That one is an ear worm complete with visuals for me... I usually hate dolls of all sorts, but those puppets are just fab! :D

[jobob]

Good grief, has this thread drifted or what. :p

I haven't looked at this thread for a while but I saw so many posts I was wondering what was up, fearing the worst.

In this instance, I'm glad to see it's gone the usual TE thread route. ;)

[GLC1968]

I think earworms are very personal. When I was in HS, there was a Tears For Fears song that always got stuck in my head. Now, with flick of a memory switch - I can get it stuck again... "everybody wants to rule the world" (crap...why did I do that??)

Singing 'Somewhere Over the Rainbow' will unstick just about anything for me (without getting stuck itself).

And, is not 'Small World' the worst earworn offender of all time??

[zoom-zoom]

I think earworms are very personal. When I was in HS, there was a Tears For Fears song that always got stuck in my head. Now, with flick of a memory switch - I can get it stuck again... "everybody wants to rule the world" (crap...why did I do that??)

That song always makes me think of popcorn... :cool:

[Zen]

That song always makes me think of popcorn... :cool:

Which makes me think of the song Popcorn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZT4owFcD4M)

[zoom-zoom]

Which makes me think of the song Popcorn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZT4owFcD4M)

Ha, I never knew the name of that tune...learn something every day! :cool:

[mariacycle]

stacey - what became of this situation? this is the first thread i ever actually subscribed to, by the way. what a scary situation... i really appreciated everyone's advice to you, especially from the policewoman! i hope you've been able to ride despite this monster!

[staceysue]

I continued to use the alternate route until I was done cycling for the winter, and I haven't seen him since I started cycling this season.

I asked around town and found someone who knew him and his family pretty well. She said the guy who was following me was often confused with another guy - and apparently I had the two men confused as well. The guy who was following me is mildly mentally handicapped and has extremely poor social skills, but she says he's not dangerous. Because of his size he's very intimidating, though. She said that next time he follows me I should stop and gently point out that it's not appropriate for him to follow behind me. I asked her if she would mind letting him know how much it scares me to be followed, if she sees him. I imagine she mentioned it to her family and somebody might have had a talk with him.

Apparently he also has an active child-like imagination, which would explain his waving the gun at motorists. Hopefully it just looks like a real gun . . .

Thank you very much for asking.

As for the subject of ear worms - nobody else on here gets "The Song That Gets on Everybody's Nerves" stuck in there head? Well . . . . since misery loves company, why I don't I remind you all how it goes!!!

I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
and this is how it goes!

I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
I know a song that gets on everybody's nerves
and this is how it goes!

repeat - infinitely



Or how about this one? I just LOVE this ear worm:

This is the song that never ends
oh it goes on and on, my friends
somebody started singing it, not knowing what it was!
Now they'll continue singing it forever just because . . . . .

This is the song that never ends
oh it goes on and on, my friends
somebody started singing it, not knowing what it was!
Now they'll continue singing it forever just because . . . . .

[Melissa71]

LOLOL I looove that song! "Somebody started singing it not knowing what it was....." It drives my kids crazy. :D

[zoom-zoom]

Or how about this one? I just LOVE this ear worm:

This is the song that never ends
oh it goes on and on, my friends
somebody started singing it, not knowing what it was!
Now they'll continue singing it forever just because . . . . .

This is the song that never ends
oh it goes on and on, my friends
somebody started singing it, not knowing what it was!
Now they'll continue singing it forever just because . . . . .

Heh, my hubby's younger cousin used to sing that ALL the time! We tease her about it, now. She will be graduating college in a couple of months. :D

Glad things got semi-resolved with the scary guy. I live in the boonies and think about this on my solo rides.

[Catrin]

We all have our own personal earworms, but not having kids around me I hadn't heard of two of them here - "The Song that Never Ends" and "The Song That Gets on Everybody's Nerves" ...

so of course I had to go to You Tube and check them out :D I am alone so there was no one to say "step away from the keyboard Catrin, you don't want to know what those songs are"

New earworms :p

[OakLeaf]

Oh I knew better than that! Songs I never heard and can tell I don't need to. :p

Except.... now that you've got me thinking about songs that loop around to the beginning...

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
He had whiskers on his chinnegan
Along came the wind and blew them in again.
Poor old Michael Finnegan! Begin again....

[Catrin]

Oh I knew better than that! Songs I never heard and can tell I don't need to. :p

Except.... now that you've got me thinking about songs that loop around to the beginning...

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
He had whiskers on his chinnegan
Along came the wind and blew them in again.
Poor old Michael Finnegan! Begin again....

LOL, I knew it was dangerous, but I just have to live on the edge sometimes :rolleyes:

[Blueberry]

Staceysue-

So glad things seem to be less dangerous than they appeared. I hope they continue to improve for you, and that you don't have any more scary incidents.

[sundial]

The guy who was following me is mildly mentally handicapped and has extremely poor social skills, but she says he's not dangerous.

Oh that's good news!! Now you know what you are working with and hopefully you'll feel like riding your old circuit again. :)

[staceysue]

We all have our own personal earworms, but not having kids around me I hadn't heard of two of them here - "The Song that Never Ends" and "The Song That Gets on Everybody's Nerves" ...

so of course I had to go to You Tube and check them out :D I am alone so there was no one to say "step away from the keyboard Catrin, you don't want to know what those songs are"

New earworms :p

mwaaaaaah haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa - (that was an evil laugh)

[staceysue]

I feel dumb for being as scared as I was - but he's such a big guy and I had been warned about that other guy being dangerous and got them confused. I guess I'm not as together as I thought I was. Maybe I do scare too easily - but when I was younger I didn't scare easily enough and nearly got myself hurt that way. Maybe some day I find a happy middle!

[zoom-zoom]

Oh I knew better than that! Songs I never heard and can tell I don't need to. :p

Except.... now that you've got me thinking about songs that loop around to the beginning...

There was an old man named Michael Finnegan
He had whiskers on his chinnegan
Along came the wind and blew them in again.
Poor old Michael Finnegan! Begin again....

Ack...I haven't thought about that song since I was probably in 4th grade! NOW it's in MY head! :p

[OakLeaf]

I feel dumb for being as scared as I was - but he's such a big guy and I had been warned about that other guy being dangerous and got them confused. I guess I'm not as together as I thought I was. Maybe I do scare too easily - but when I was younger I didn't scare easily enough and nearly got myself hurt that way. Maybe some day I find a happy middle!

Don't feel dumb. Sounds to me like you were being very sensible. It's creepy and threatening behavior. Now that you know the guy is harmless, now you can behave accordingly, but I would definitely not have assumed from his behavior that he was harmless! And you mentioned that other people have confused this guy with someone else who was not harmless, either, so it wasn't just you. I'd say you're plenty "together."

Anyway I'm glad it all feels safer to you now. Happy riding!

[staceysue]

Thanks, Oak Leaf.

[sundial]

I feel dumb for being as scared as I was - but he's such a big guy and I had been warned about that other guy being dangerous and got them confused.

One of the not so great perks of getting older is the feeling of vulnerability. You were just exercising your right to self-preservation. :)