Finding the right saddle...

[BalaRoja]

I've been slowly getting myself used to riding in a more aggressive position - more time in the drops and taking some of the spacers out from beneath the bars.

As you can probably guess, that tends to have you leaning forward more and being lower, not to mention slightly changing your contact zones with the saddle. The last part is where I'm having a little bit of difficulty.

I'm finding a fair bit of, I guess using the Terry website parlance, 'front pressure' in the, how to put it delicately, "soft tissue". Enough that I feel some slight numbness after about 1.5 hours of riding. :(

While I've never say, measured my sit bone distance, I suspect they are on the narrow side as I have pretty slender hips. So I don't have issues with chafing or pressure on my bum, it is rather all in the front.

Can some of you having experience with similar issues suggest some saddles that I might consider?

I'd prefer to try a saddle that I could at least return if it doesn't work as I'm trying to be thrifty with cash here. I don't mind paying for a quality saddle, but I do hope to avoid having to buy several different kinds without success.

A few caveats...

I do a fairly sizable amount of indoor training (bike on trainer) during the week - say about 3.5-4.5 hours. I've ridden the trainer enough to know to stand and pedal regularly as well as shift positions slightly since you are in a more rigid setup.

I had a bike fit done by an experienced fitter a few years back when I first got the bike. Although I started riding again more recently after a long hiatus.

Using some Louis Garneau & Pearl Izumi shorts with very nice chamois so I think I'm OK in terms of shorts.

Bike has the factory saddle, pretty standard issue with the usual cutout.

Would love to hear your suggestions :)

[indysteel]

I can handle being in the drops a long time and have always ridden a saddle--the Terry Butterfly Tri Gel to be precise--with a cutout. You might try that.

[sarahspins]

While I've never say, measured my sit bone distance, I suspect they are on the narrow side as I have pretty slender hips. So I don't have issues with chafing or pressure on my bum, it is rather all in the front.

Outside measurements have little to do with inside.. you could have fairly wide hips and narrow sit bones, or narrow hips with wide sitbones, or any combination inbetween... you can't tell unless you actually get measured.

I would start there.. and find a shop that is willing to let you try out a saddle for a while and has a good return policy. It may still be a fit issue.. if the angle of your seat isn't right, or if it's too far back, that can contribute to problems up front. You might also try a different style cutout.

[KnottedYet]

While I've never say, measured my sit bone distance, I suspect they are on the narrow side as I have pretty slender hips.


Size of heinie (iliac crest span) has almost nothing to do with sitbone/ischial tuberosity span (pelvic outlet). For example, my iliac span (ASIS to ASIS) is only 12 1/2 inches. Pretty narrow when compared to my ischial tuberosities which are 7 1/4 inches!!!!

Even women with slender hips can give birth...

First thing you might want to do is measure your ischial tuberosities, that will give you a lot of good information to help you on your search.

Next might be a good idea to check out your Q-angle of your femurs, that can help decide if you need a T or Pear shaped saddle. (I've got walloping huge Q-angle and huge long femoral necks) I don't know of a good way to check Q-angle other than having a PT help you. Honestly, I think just riding the two different shapes and comparing them is the best way to figure out the best saddle contour.

Then take the "cut out test" on a hard flat wooden or stone bench.

Those 3 pieces of information will make your search much easier!

ETA: Sarah beat me to it! :)

[BalaRoja]

I appreciate all the tips so far ladies.

I had assumed that sit bone distance had something to do with hip width, but obviously that's not right. So thanks for giving me the correct information! :) :)

Regarding Q-angles, hmmm, I've got a goniometer in the house. I'm guessing that might help a bit? Plus I do know a therapist pretty well...

I do have severe overpronation which I think can make for some pretty distorted hip movement. Although I do wear custom orthotics and remember the PT mentioning that my feet were the reason for the odd hip motion.

Regarding the cutout test - admittedly I've never heard of it (maybe I should have?) - so I need to learn more about that.

As you all noted, it probably helps just to try some different saddles to at least narrow down my choices and/or get a better sense of what works (and doesn't work).

[radacrider]

Also, since your fit was a while ago and based on your bars with the spacers inserted, you might consider getting another fitting, which may help with the pressure issues. Your angle will definitely be different so the settings then may not apply anymore.

I've been the opposite. After 10 or so years away, and now getting back into it I had to go back to my original stem (100mm) versus what I used before (120mm). way too stretched out now. Plus replacing the no cut out seat with one with a cut out helped a bunch too. Guess I can't take discomfort like I use to. :D

Good luck in your search.

[OakLeaf]

I don't know of a good way to check Q-angle other than having a PT help you.

Knot, it must be up to you to come up with a quick and dirty home test, since you've been so helpful with all the rest. ;)

It would be pretty easy to measure, say, distance between heels in a walking gait, just by making footprints on either side of a straight line. Distance from pubic bone to floor, kneeling with femurs vertical. Then the distance between the ischial tuberosities which we've already measured. Given those three measurements wouldn't you have a rough idea of saddle shape? Or are there too many other variables?

[Miranda]

I can handle being in the drops a long time and have always ridden a saddle--the Terry Butterfly Tri Gel to be precise--with a cutout. You might try that.

That's my saddle. I love it:cool:.

I had tried many, many, saddles on my old bike. That I later learned it was not the saddles so much. It was the bike being 2 frames sizes too big for me. Which TWO shops had told me that my bike *fit* me. What a joke.

I tried a couple Terrys too for saddles. Pressure problems. The tri gel is a variant that I did not try. But, the main thing was the bike.

I knew it was the saddle for me (on the new correct fitting ride to boot) because I was riding along... and it disappeared. When I got off the bike from the test ride the shop owner wanted to know how the bike was. First thing I said was, "WHAT is this saddle?!?!". I was shocked it was a Terry. I had wrote them off.

OK... also, how aero is your bike set up? I have all the steering quill w/spacers & a riser stem... I'm still about 1.5" below saddle height. I love my drops. But alternate. Still, no pressure problems. You should really be able to ride comfortably on the hoods most of the time. THAT I could never do either on the old ride. Now, it's ok.

The short of it: it you are too stretched out/ rolled forward--weight bearing on the pubic bone, NO saddle will ever completely relieve tender parts pressure (mine never did).

Good Luck!:)

[BalaRoja]

That's my saddle. I love it:cool:.

I had tried many, many, saddles on my old bike. That I later learned it was not the saddles so much. It was the bike being 2 frames sizes too big for me. Which TWO shops had told me that my bike *fit* me. What a joke.

I tried a couple Terrys too for saddles. Pressure problems. The tri gel is a variant that I did not try. But, the main thing was the bike.

I knew it was the saddle for me (on the new correct fitting ride to boot) because I was riding along... and it disappeared. When I got off the bike from the test ride the shop owner wanted to know how the bike was. First thing I said was, "WHAT is this saddle?!?!". I was shocked it was a Terry. I had wrote them off.

OK... also, how aero is your bike set up? I have all the steering quill w/spacers & a riser stem... I'm still about 1.5" below saddle height. I love my drops. But alternate. Still, no pressure problems. You should really be able to ride comfortably on the hoods most of the time. THAT I could never do either on the old ride. Now, it's ok.

The short of it: it you are too stretched out/ rolled forward--weight bearing on the pubic bone, NO saddle will ever completely relieve tender parts pressure (mine never did).

Good Luck!:)

Another vote for the Terry Tri saddle? Maybe I need to give that one a good look :)

Miranda, I agree with your idea that a so-so fit or being too stretched out can make for saddle discomfort. It is possible that's my case but I'm not sure as of yet and probably need to study my position/placement more.

Bars are maybe 1" below the top of the saddle and the latter being a pretty standard trek wsd road saddle. A bit more cushy than the aftermarket saddles we are talking about here.

Aside from that, I'm rather long waisted so I have a longer stem than many people use (having a much longer torso), plus I am a bit tall-ish. The WSD bike is probably not the best fit for me, but that's a whole other conversation and I've got too much money in the bike (and not enough in my pocket!) to switch right now. So to get to the point - I may be a bit more stretched out than need be although I don't think or imagine that I am

[BalaRoja]

Got the sit-bone measurement and it looks like 16cm. I got the measurement from someone who knows anatomy very well so I'm thinking it is right.

WOuld that change the saddle selection? maybe a wider seat?

[sarahspins]

160mm is definitely on the wider end.... so if you've been on a seat that was too narrow, that can definitely contribute to a lot of pressure/pain up front.

[Suechoccy]

A bike fit done several years ago can be forgotten. You will have changed shape, fitness and age during the intervening years so it's irrelevant. If you're trying now to use the bikefit position prescribed some years ago (when presumably you were fit and riding a lot), then you're probably in too aggressive a/low a position at the front now for your fitness/shape/age at the moment.

The lower the front end goes, the more pressure is put on the soft tissues esp towards the very front of your genitals.

I'd raise the front slightly to take pressure off yourself, then get a few weeks acclimization, then maybe lower the front if you really want to.

Saddles, I'm fine with a typical bloke's saddle on a road bike with drop handlebars, but had a difficult time finding a comfy saddle for my tri-bars time trial bike as the front position is more acute/lower. After several false starts including WTB Rockets, Specialised Jetts and Fizik Rondines, I had a week's free trial of an Adamo Race and loved it so bought one for the tribar bike. It is an acquired taste though, quite hard, hard on the seatbones, and the short nose is wide too, so you definitely need the free trial first to see if it suits you, and you need to set it up according to the saddle-fitting demo at:

http://www.ismseat.com/faqs/htm

Here's a thread all about Adamo saddles from an English timetrialling forum (men and women:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/lofiversion/index.php?t34359.html

Good luck, I hope you find comfort soon!

[OakLeaf]

Got the sit-bone measurement and it looks like 16cm. I got the measurement from someone who knows anatomy very well so I'm thinking it is right.

WOuld that change the saddle selection? maybe a wider seat?

Yeah, 160 mm is pretty wide, wider than most saddles go. Remember that you need some room on either side of the center of your sitbones, for proper support - when a manufacturer says their saddle is, say, 162 mm (about as wide as anything other than Brooks go), that's measuring from outside to outside at the widest point. The points on the top that will actually be supporting you are closer together. If you're 160mm center-to-center, then seriously consider a Brooks. They're heavy, yeah, but they're wide, very T-shaped, and people who need a very wide saddle just love them.

Just as they say about aero position - if you can't breathe, then the deepest tuck with the least wind resistance isn't the fastest position for you - it's the same with saddles. You may be giving up some weight to other riders, but if other saddles don't let you push off your saddle as hard or as long as you need to, then your weight savings is useless.

[dianne_1234]

You're right Oak, 160 is off the charts. Well, off these charts anyway. :)

From a post I made anticipating just this circumstance:

Ischial Tuberosity Spacing stats

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Found this in my old uni notes and wanted to post it here for easy reference:

Ischial Tuberosity Spacing among women:
5th percentile 112 mm
50th percentile 130 mm
95th percentile 148 mm

Ischial Tuberosity Spacing among men:
5th percentile 100 mm
50th percentile 118 mm
95th percentile 137 mm

I don't remember the population this data was taken from, but I remember being under the impression that it was a very large number of individuals and it was considered "safe" to assume it might represent the whole world.

I've used this info to help narrow the search - once I learned I was wider the 95th percentile(!) I stopped bothering with a lot of narrow saddles.

From http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=21451&page=3

[BalaRoja]

Hi Oakleaf & Dianne - Those are some interesting stats. I suppose I would hope to be in the 99% (give or take a percentage point or two) of something a bit more impressive than, um....sit bones but what the heck :)

[KnottedYet]

Hi Oakleaf & Dianne - Those are some interesting stats. I suppose I would hope to be in the 99% (give or take a percentage point or two) of something a bit more impressive than, um....sit bones but what the heck :)

Don't sweat it, there are several of us on TE in the 170-180mm zone! :eek: (we tend to ride Brooks B66, B67, B68 saddles)

I tend to measure women who come to me who are having trouble with saddles, and almost all of them are in the 150mm and up range. Which is *why* they were having trouble finding saddles!

[sarahspins]

Eeek.. I didn't realize I was in the above 99% zone myself.. I just knew I had a heck of a time finding a saddle that didn't totally kill the girly parts. The first midwife I ever saw said I was "built for having babies" and I really get what she meant after my first was born after a lightning fast labor with a 14.5" noggin :eek: (even my last one at 9lbs+ was born in only 2 hours total.. his head wasn't *quite* that big though)

A B68 was my next move after the Selle SMP if that hadn't worked for me.