New bike...can't shift into big chainring!

[Buster]

Hi everyone! After waiting a couple of weeks for my new bike (Surly Long Haul Trucker), I picked it up today only to discover that I am pretty much unable to shift from the middle chainring to the big chainring. It has Ultegra brifters instead of the bar end shifters that the Long Haul Trucker usually comes with. I have no problem with shifting the cassette with my right hand, but I simply cannot shift into the biggest ring with my left hand consistently (I managed to do it a couple of times, but can't do it all of the time). The shop tried a bunch of adjustments, to no avail. My left hand is sore and a bit raw from me trying to shift. The shop told me to keep trying with the bike to see if things loosened up at all, and I still couldn't shift, they'll put bar end shifters on. There is a shim in shifter so that I can reach the brake, and one of the guys at the shop thought that it was making it harder to shift.

Has anyone had this problem before and if so, what was the fix? I have very small hands, and I'm wondering if they're simply too small to use these types of shifters and if I should use bar end shifters instead. I'm terribly disappointed -- I was so looking forward to my new bike, but instead I'm feeling too feeble to ride it!

Any ideas are greatly appreciated!

[aicabsolut]

It's not an uncommon problem, because some people (especially with smaller hands) have trouble with the distance and effort involved in the "throw" of the big lever on the left.

Sometimes, though, the cable indexing just doesn't work the same under load as it does on the stand. Other setups are a little more finicky about what cog you're in in the rear when you make the shift.

You can try shifting when you're in a cog that is nearer to the small end. You can also try tightening the cable for the front derailleur some and see if that helps. If none of that works, then it might be that you'll be better off with the bar end shifters.

[Cataboo]

Maybe try taking out the shim... I have really small hands with short fingers - wear xs gloves women's... but I can shift on ultegra shift levers without shims.


you may want to get the short reach shimano r700 shifters, a lot of women like it.

[OakLeaf]

+1 on the R700s.
However, the LBS may not be willing to swap them out for you, especially since you've ridden the bike a few times. It's an expensive fix (like $400).


If you take the shim out, the problem becomes reaching the brakes. Personally, if I had to choose, I'd choose having trouble shifting...

[aeiea]

I'm a nub so feel free to discard my comments (or answer them), but --

-- have you tried another LBS? they might have a different solution... or tell you if the shifter is defective. (recently had an issue with a defective device; took another LBS to tell me this)

-- what's the reason why you shift a lot from the middle chainring to the big one? I usually do most of my shifting with my right hand. Then again, I am usually on the mostly flat beach boardwalk.

[Crankin]

I had this problem on my previous 2 road bikes. It got solved when my DH put Dura Ace on the front of my Trek. I never used the big chain ring until 2008 and I started riding in 2000.
#2 on the R-700's. I have them on my present bike and finally, can shift and brake.

[Buster]

Thanks everyone.

As an added data point, my husband (with large strong hands) has tried it and said that although he can shift, it is tougher to shift than any of his bikes. I'm not really comfortable taking the shim out, because I think I would rather be able to reach the brakes. I think I need to try the R700s, but I'm a little hesitant to spend the money if it doesn't work. I have another LBS that I like that I'm due for a trip to to buy some new gloves...I may ask them if they've encountered this before.

aeiea, I do a fair bit of shifting because I live in a hilly area. I'm rather hung up on this even though I think that most of my riding will be in the middle chainring because I just spent a good amount of money on this bike and I want to be able to use it properly!

I'd be grateful for any other suggestions!

[OakLeaf]

Maybe you know someone who has R700s on their bike already, or maybe one of your LBSs has a bike you can test ride, just to see how the shifters work for you.

But if you can reach the brakes as is, a couple of people on here have said that the spring tension on a Dura-Ace front derailleur is much lighter than 105 or Ultegra. That would be a much less expensive change than swapping the shifters (plus you wouldn't have to re-tape the handlebars, which is ALWAYS a plus in my book. ;))

[Cataboo]

Maybe have the shop completely start over on tuning the front shifter - screw the cable adjuster round things (on your down tube, can't remember what they're called), all the way in, undo the cable at the derailleur.

I know on my bike, it was initially easy to shift in the front, then I asked the bf to adjust the front derailleur and whatever he did made it much harder to shift - like the cable was just too tight to begin with, and I'm thinking he just adjusted those cable guide things...

Then just recently I changed my cranks, and I moved the front derailleur (closer in, 'cause the new cranks were narrower) and suddenly it has gotten a lot easier to shift on that bike.

I just measured my hand - from the bottom of my palm to my middle finger tip is less than 6.5 inches (probably like 6 and 3/8s). My middle finger is 2 and 3/4 inches long. I have no problems using ultegra shifters and brakes without shims. I do have them kinda adjusted to be in the perfect spot for me to reach them on the hoods. My hands are small, and my fingers are stumpy. So you should be able to reach without the shim - but you probably shouldn't have to if they tune your bike right.

[Biciclista]

i had trouble with that (not as bad as you ) before i shifted to Campy

[OakLeaf]

Catriona, what kind of a FD do you have?

As I mentioned in the other thread, reach isn't a problem for me with my R700s, but it's a BIG effort upshifting my 105 FD. Maybe 10% of the time I'll end up trimming rather than shifting, and I always have to be cautious about not steering while I shift. It's a pretty long throw, but it's the effort much more than it is the distance. And in general I've got pretty strong forearms from motorcycling.

Someone else mentioned in the other thread - maybe it was aicabsolut again - that it's an issue for both 105 and Ultegra FDs, but that the spring tension on Dura-Ace is much lower.

[Cataboo]

I think they both have ultegra front derailleurs. One is a triple with 105 shifters and the other a compact double with ultegra shifters. I haven't noticed any problems with the 105 shifters - but then that bike doesn't have any of those cable barrel adjusters, so the bf can't just screw those out to tune the bike...

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in. They're trigger shifters and I mostly commute & rarely leave the large chain ring so I haven't made a huge deal out of it... But I noticed the other day when he was looking at that bike for me that he was having a hard time shifting up on the front. I think he made the cable too tight with his adjustments.

[kenyonchris]

i had trouble with that (not as bad as you ) before i shifted to Campy

+1 on this. Campy rocks for small handed people who hate the Shimano throw.

[laura*]

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in.

Hmmm. Could the shift cable be routed wrong?

At a bike co-op I was helping someone with a really cheap department store bike. The front shifter was *really* hard to move and I think it had even split the cable housing. It turned out that the cable was clamped on the wrong side of the FD's clamp bolt. It needed to attach as far out on the pivot arm as possible.

[Cataboo]

I'll check, but I don't think so since it used to be fine, but I'll look at it tomorrow

[OakLeaf]

He's done it to my surly as well - I've got XTR shifters with a 105 front deraileur on it - it was initially easy to shift on the front derailleur, then I asked him to adjust something - and now in order to shift up on the front derailleur, I literally have to use the palm of my hand to push it in. ... I think he made the cable too tight with his adjustments.

If the cable were too tight, then the frameward side of the cage would rub the chain, or it wouldn't want to downshift, or both. It would actually be easier to shift to the big chainring, because the 105 FD is low normal.

+1 on what laura* said. The cable doesn't go where it seems like it ought to on the 105 FD. There's a little protrusion on the washer (or on the pivot arm? I forget which even though I just replaced that cable four days ago) - anyway, there's a little protrusion that looks like it's supposed to hold the cable, but it's not. It's to keep the washer from turning when you tighten the bolt. On the opposite side there's a shallow channel that's very hard to see, especially if there's any grit or dirt in there - that's where the cable goes. When it's properly installed, the cable lives on the frameward side of the pivot arm, and the end of it is pointed out toward your leg, so that it could even catch your calf or heel if you don't bend it back.


PS - a barrel adjuster is really handy. Make sure you install one the next time you replace your cable housings...

[aicabsolut]

DA is much easier to shift, but I think it's a combination of the shifter and the FD. The throw is a lot easier and shorter compared to ultegra or 105. Some of that might be due to the spring tension on the FD, but I think a lot of it is the shifter. That's because you'd have the same cable pull with DA (at least 7800) as the others because of cross-compatibility.

I think the new DA has adjustible levers, like SRAM. Anyone know if the new ultegra (6700) will too? The cable pull on that system is very different than the old because of internal routing, so you'd have to upgrade derailleurs and shifters. Then you might as well save some money and go with SRAM Rival or something.

I still think that it's likely the tuning isn't quite right. It shouldn't be impossibly hard. What does your husband have on his bikes?

[Cataboo]

+1 on what laura* said. The cable doesn't go where it seems like it ought to on the 105 FD. There's a little protrusion on the washer (or on the pivot arm? I forget which even though I just replaced that cable four days ago) - anyway, there's a little protrusion that looks like it's supposed to hold the cable, but it's not. It's to keep the washer from turning when you tighten the bolt. On the opposite side there's a shallow channel that's very hard to see, especially if there's any grit or dirt in there - that's where the cable goes. When it's properly installed, the cable lives on the frameward side of the pivot arm, and the end of it is pointed out toward your leg, so that it could even catch your calf or heel if you don't bend it back.


PS - a barrel adjuster is really handy. Make sure you install one the next time you replace your cable housings...

Oh, the bike without barrel adjusters - I'd bought a frame that evening and just had to build it up immediately. So I stripped all the pieces off an old bike & put it on the new bike. The barrel adjusters didn't fit the new bike, so they were left off. bike was finished at 2 am, and I took it for a spin. I haven't had to tune that bike since (it shifts great), so I haven't bothered to go get barrel adjusters to fit it. It does have a barrel adjuster on the rear derailleur, so I can tweak that if I have to.


Whenever I replace the cables or anything like that, I'll get it some barrel adjusters.

I checked my surly's 105 front derailleur - the cable does stick out towards my leg and the cable is clamped on the frameward side of the arm. And it looks like there's a slight groove that it's sitting in, but I didn't unscrew it to tell for sure. I don't think it's that the cable's routed wrong. But then, the cable is routed how it seems like it out to be (at least to me), so maybe it is routed wrong. I checked the diagrams on the install pdf on shimano, and it seems to be in line with that.

[OakLeaf]

I checked my surly's 105 front derailleur - the cable does stick out towards my leg and the cable is clamped on the frameward side of the arm. And it looks like there's a slight groove that it's sitting in, but I didn't unscrew it to tell for sure. I don't think it's that the cable's routed wrong. But then, the cable is routed how it seems like it out to be (at least to me), so maybe it is routed wrong. I checked the diagrams on the install pdf on shimano, and it seems to be in line with that.

Well that does sound right. I'm out of guesses. Hope you get it sorted. :(

When the cable's installed, it doesn't look wrong to me, that's not what I meant. It's only when I'm installing a new one - or if I've completely disconnected the existing cable to adjust it - that it looks to me like it should go on the side with the protrusion.

[Cataboo]

Oh, it's not a big deal, i just push down with my palm instead of my thumb, I should just get better at tuning this stuff myself. that bike has a short chain stay, 9 speed road cranks up front (53, 39, 30) & 9 speed 105 and an 8 speed XTR cassette & derailleur in the back - so it sort of has a short chain length to make some pretty big gear changes, and it's tricky to tune well and has a lot of cross chain effects. I have an 8 speed chain on their currently, but I think I should put a 9 speed chain on it.

[dianne_1234]

From http://www.hostelshoppe.com/tech_frontderail.php

"On Shimano bottom pull derailleurs it is important to note that the cable runs UP AND OVER the leverage tab. Many people make the mistake of using the leverage tab as a cable pinch by running the cable UNDER the leverage tab - this changes the pulling leverage of the front shifter and makes it impossible to properly adjust the front derailleur."

There's a nice photo on this web site with a circle drawn on the "leverage tab" they're talking about.

[Buster]

Just thought I'd close this thread out with an update...took the bike back to the LBS. As it turns out, they had put the R600s on the bike already. We adjusted the angle of handlebars, which helped with comfort and my ability to grip the brakes. We then put a Dura-Ace front derailleur on, and success! Shifting is much crisper and easier.

Thanks everyone for the help!