styles of teaching

[han-grrl]

Hey Fellow Instructors and Spinning Students

I had to "audition" for a spinning instructor job, and the main critique of my style was that my endurance class wasn't what mad dog recommends. So here is my question:

How CLOSELY do you follow Mad Dogs guidelines. i'm not talking about contra-indicated movements, just the pure definitions of the types of classes. For instance, for an endurance class, the recommendation is a seated flat. Not only do i think this kind of boring but so do the students, plus any long slow distance ride wouldn't necessarily be on a flat the entire time, especially around here. I don't see a problem with telling the students to maintain that low heart rate, but add in some climbs or even jumps (done very slowly). The key is to use breathing effectively to maintain low heart rate. What do you think, what do the students think? Do they like an hours worth of seated flat?

Thanks!

Have a great day

Han

[Veronica]

If the music is good I don't mind staying in the saddle for the whole class. I ride a tandem so I spend a lot of time in the saddle when I'm outside and don't get to wiggle. :p Most of the women in my classes seem very relieved to get out of the saddle on endurance days. An hour is a long time for people who are not bicyclists.

So what are the benefits of jumps? I stopped doing them because it's not a movement I can replicate on a tandem and usually do a seated sprint when the class does jumps.


Thanks,

Veronica

[Irulan]

Originally posted by han-grrl
Hey Fellow Instructors and Spinning Students

How CLOSELY do you follow Mad Dogs guidelines. i'm not talking about contra-indicated movements, just the pure definitions of the types of classes.


What are mad dog guidelines? Is this something I should know?


For instance, for an endurance class, the recommendation is a seated flat. Not only do i think this kind of boring but so do the students, plus any long slow distance ride wouldn't necessarily be on a flat the entire time, especially around here. I don't see a problem with telling the students to maintain that low heart rate, but add in some climbs or even jumps (done very slowly). The key is to use breathing effectively to maintain low heart rate. What do you think, what do the students think? Do they like an hours worth of seated flat?

Sounds boring to me. I like the long extended climbs, and the cadence work, and the cadence/sprint work. The up/down/up/down sequences are the only one I struggle with.

Irulan

[Irulan]

Asked the instructor today: she explained that MAD DOG is one spinning method, Precison is another etc. My club uses the "Preccision" methods.

Ok, NOW I get it.

Irulan:rolleyes:

[han-grrl]

jumps don't really "apply" to cycling very well. It's a bit of a strength movement. the idea is that your body position and cadence don't change in or out of the saddle (well, don't change very much). it's handy for getting the heart rate up too ;)

[Veronica]

Thanks - that's pretty much what I had figured about jumps.

Have a good day.

Veronica

[Irulan]

Yesterday I had a nice chat with Beth the instructor when she explained all the different spinning programs to me ( Johnny G, Mad Dog, Precisione etc)

They are putting together a class ( collecting interest) for a two hour long endurance oriented class for marathoners, triatheletes etc. Sounds good to me... I think endurance is something I can apply to my long MB rides next summer.

Irulan

[goddess1222]

i have participated in 2 hour spin rides and they are awesome. really good for endurance. enjoy!

[han-grrl]

i guess i am too much of an "outsider". I don't mind one hour spin classes, but if it's going to be 2 hours i rather be outside. lots of cross country skiing at this time of year :D

[Miyata912]

I've taken alot of spinning classes with various instructors. The best ones, IMHO, are those who mix it up a bit.

This winter, I have been taking a 13 week series of 2-hour spin classes on Sundays. The 1st 8 weeks were focused on endurance training. My instructor is a Johnny G certified instructor. Her focus in not on seated or standing, but rather on heart rate and staying within a zone appropriate for the goal of the workout. In the endurance classes, our focus was on keeping our heart rates between 65 and 75% of max, and learning to become more efficient. SO, we practiced pedaling nice round circles, using all of our muscle groups, becoming efficient while standing (keeping our heart rates in the target zones), etc.

Too much seated time is not only boring, but gets uncomfortable. The saddles on most spin bikes stink.

The last 5 weeks have been more focused on strength training. While we still spend alot of time between 65 & 75%, we also do intervals that take us up to 80 & 85% for shorter periods. We've been doing more muscle tension intervals, stomps (these wear us out, but we beg for them!), time trialing simulations (at 10 beats below AT), etc.

The best part is that our instructor is a "real" cyclist, ie. she rides (and races) outdoors - she doesn't just ride a spin bike. This is important to our class (we all signed up for the term, so its always the same group), because we are all outdoor cyclists (and some racers) who are looking to maintain strength and fitness during our long, rainy winters. SO, all of her visualization techniques & routines are focused on making us better cyclists OUTSIDE.

Anyway, this was a VERY long-winded way of telling han-grrl that I think her style of mixing it up, while keeping the endurance goal in mind, is just fine. As others have mentioned staying in the saddle and just spinning for an hour gets tedious.


Miyata912

[spinner777]

han-grrl

I guess it depends totally on the club and their rules for your rides. Yes Mad Dogg states that you should stay in the saddle for the whole endurance class. You also should do what the students want and the club wants. You can do an endurance ride using the set HR paramaters of 65%-75%, and also get out of the saddle. From what I have seen in my classes is that the students want varity. Most of them want climbs and runs and sprints. Ask the club what they want from you in terms of staying within the paramaters of the actual endurance ride, then ask the class what they want. Do what you feel comfortable with. BUt also remember if you do an endurance class not with the specified guidles for staying in the saddle then the club might not like it.

It's your call.

[Terry]

I'm new to spinng, but not as a fitness instructor ( I'm also a personal trainer). I've just started to fit spin into my schedule because I want to build my endurance for MB trail rides...I live in Arizona, so we're in season right now...anywhoo...

A lot of group exercise guidelines are meant to keep the middle ground for fitness purpose and not for excellence or preformance. The better clubs will let instructors do their thing as long as the clients love what's going the instructor teaches (within reason/safety)...the "K-mart" clubs/gyms are usually real silly about what method THEY want as opposed to what is best for the client. It sounds like the critique of not doing an Mad Dogg method was a way to disqualify and discourage variety. You really don't want to work in a place that has a "control" over you style.

Also, I need some advice from those of you who attemd/teach spin regularly. I feel "out of place" in spin class...

So, my shoes are banged up from riding and I wear gloves because there are no grips, plus, I'm use my "Terry Thumb"
... who on earth rides with a towel and stops to use kleenex? Occasionally, I like to ride out of my range to challenge myself, but the guy 3 bikes over got mad at me because my heart moniter beeped when I went over my target for my "age"...he got all prissy. Hell, the reason I go to class is to get the heart rate up, and, to get out of my rut so I can build a stronger heart muscle. (As a fitness instructor, I know what it means to have the class take a pulse and encourage them to stay within proper ranges).

If I can't get in a "wild betty" on the trails, then, spin class is my alternative. I do not "do my thing" in class because that's a "dis" on the instructor (I hate when people come into my classes and do their thing instead of following instructions). Any suggestions, fellow instructors? I'm just beginning spin, so if my behavior is offensive or I'm not up on spin ettiquette, I'd sure like to know...
Terry

[han-grrl]

i can't believe that guy got all ahem...sounds like witchy...at you. In spin classes, you can go at your own pace. As long as you are doing the movements correctly, you can crank up the resistance for a harder workout. just be careful of those knees. we don't grind on our mtb, right?

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Terry
Also, I need some advice from those of you who attemd/teach spin regularly. I feel "out of place" in spin class...

So, my shoes are banged up from riding and I wear gloves because there are no grips, plus, I'm use my "Terry Thumb"
... who on earth rides with a towel and stops to use kleenex? Occasionally, I like to ride out of my range to challenge myself, but the guy 3 bikes over got mad at me because my heart moniter beeped when I went over my target for my "age"...he got all prissy. Hell, the reason I go to class is to get the heart rate up, and, to get out of my rut so I can build a stronger heart muscle. (As a fitness instructor, I know what it means to have the class take a pulse and encourage them to stay within proper ranges).

If I can't get in a "wild betty" on the trails, then, spin class is my alternative. I do not "do my thing" in class because that's a "dis" on the instructor (I hate when people come into my classes and do their thing instead of following instructions). Any suggestions, fellow instructors? I'm just beginning spin, so if my behavior is offensive or I'm not up on spin ettiquette, I'd sure like to know...
Terry

Heh, heh, I'm with ya on this one. Sometimes there's chunks of mud that fall off my cleats under my bike. The time that I go is filled with latte crazed super moms who have just dropped the kidlets off at the grade school, most of who never have been on a real bike outside. ( and lest anyone think I'm dissing on moms, my teens play soccer ) I wear my mt-bike club head band and what ever biking t-shirt I can find.

I've chatted up all the instructors about my goals and my "real' riding. I've let them know that I know what I am doing if I'm not following the class exactly. They have all been enthusiastic and supportive once they know I'm not another sheep in an exercise class. If a particular instrcutor is giving you problems, I'd talk to the person in charge of classes. As for Mr "you beeped at me"... tell him to get a life. I'm surprised he could hear it through thte music anyway.

I don' t necessarily do my own thing, except when it's the stand and gtind gal who I do ignore.

Another thing that I do is I use visualisation a lot in classes.
I've got some memorable rides I did last year and I try to visualize either keep up with the guys or keeping ahead of the guys. I also watch videos from this site

single track video (http://www.petefagerlin.com)

and keep those in my head too.

It pays to communicate... I just got invited into the upcoming endurance class becuase they know my penchant for long rides....

Irulan

[Terry]

Thanks for the reply!

Well, I did talk it up to a spin instructor that I "enjoy" and asked her to come on over to where I was spinning and let me know if there is anything that I could/should do to improve my form, ect.
I also mention the guy who was upset with my "beeping"...she said to tell him...well, sort of the same thing you said but with more attitude! I guess my "manners" are OK by her.

There was also an issue brought up in class of spinning and standing (sans seat?) the entire session and the instrutor said that it was a no-no in her class. But, she added, if anyone was going to do it anyway, to spin in the back of the room so as to not distract her/other students. Apparently there is some "style" that stands the entire class and uses hardly any resistance on the tire...anyone heard of this? Apparently, it is marketed as an "endurnance" class. (?)

FYI...
I'm a mom too, but my "baby boy" is a old dirt squirt, 22, who downhills competitively. (I'm trying to find him a nice bike-chic girlfriend....and I have pictures--HA!). He also sends me videos of downhills in Moab, which I do "visualize" when spinning.
Thanks for the support and advice.
Terry

[Dogmama]

I used to think that jumps were just for raising heart rates - but I started using them when riding over bumpy stuff on my road bike. I raise up just a few inches and then lower back down while keeping the same cadence. It is nice to keep the same mph while riding in pacelines & this helps me practice it.

[RoxGirl77]

Originally posted by han-grrl
...

How CLOSELY do you follow Mad Dogs guidelines. i'm not talking about contra-indicated movements, just the pure definitions of the types of classes. For instance, for an endurance class, the recommendation is a seated flat. Not only do i think this kind of boring but so do the students, plus any long slow distance ride wouldn't necessarily be on a flat the entire time, especially around here. I don't see a problem with telling the students to maintain that low heart rate, but add in some climbs or even jumps (done very slowly). The key is to use breathing effectively to maintain low heart rate. What do you think, what do the students think? Do they like an hours worth of seated flat?

Thanks!

Have a great day

Han

Hi. I am an avid mountain biker and spin instructor as well! (Seems to be a trend here!) As far as spinning style is concerned, there are so many I've encountered... I guess I created my own!
Are you spinning for cycling training purposes? Are you spinning for a great workout? Are you spinning to have fun? Everyone in the class I'm sure has very different reasons for being in the class and it's hard to accomidate them all as an instructor.

I tend to teach my classes as if we were on an outdoor trail. I mean, really, when do you ever come out of the saddle on single track? ... the downhill section. And are you peddaling at this time?NO. So then why would we spend a whole 5 minute song out of the saddle???:confused: My 2cents.

[Terry]

Roxgirl,
I agree with your question as to why spin classes make a thing out of "pedal fast down hill"... I don't get it either. In mountain biking, as well as road cycling, you don't use granny gears to "go faster" down hill...I also don't get spin lingo used on hill climbs, as in, your supposed to imagine riding in sand...I'd use a granny gear and pedal my legs off to get through the sand, but, my legs do not feel like a climb in sand...it always sounds as if the instructions are backward to the way one would naturally ride.

On another note.........
I'm sort of miffed at the unprofessional Greg Lemond Spin Certification people. I had to contact them SEVERAL times this past spring (e-mail, phone calls) until I finally got a call back second week in June. They held a certification class in Orange County 6/28. If they would have contacted me immediately when I had made prior inquiries, then, I could have made plane/hotel arrangements to be there...not 2 weeks before. I tried to get there, but could not. I also e-mailed their certification instructor asking her to send me future city/dates so that I could make arrangements to certify....you guessed it. No response. Does anyone, out west, know of a spin certification class coming up in late July/August?
Terry

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Terry
Roxgirl,
I agree with your question as to why spin classes make a thing out of "pedal fast down hill"... I don't get it either. In mountain biking, as well as road cycling, you don't use granny gears to "go faster" down hill...I also don't get spin lingo used on hill climbs, as in, your supposed to imagine riding in sand...I'd use a granny gear and pedal my legs off to get through the sand, but, my legs do not feel like a climb in sand...it always sounds as if the instructions are backward to the way one would naturally ride.


Terry

as a participant who is an avid mountain biker... I"ve learned that the lingo and moves in spin classes ( at least the ones I go to) have very little relationship to real world cycling. I confess that part of the time with some instructors, I don't follow along, I so what feels right for me.

I am just so glad to be "real" riding right now...

Irulan

[RoxGirl77]

Originally posted by Irulan
as a participant who is an avid mountain biker... I"ve learned that the lingo and moves in spin classes ( at least the ones I go to) have very little relationship to real world cycling. I confess that part of the time with some instructors, I don't follow along, I so what feels right for me.

I am just so glad to be "real" riding right now...

Irulan

Yes, spinning is a great way to stay in riding shape for the off season!
And it's true, spinning and cycling are two similar but different activities. With spinning, you have no pedestrians to worry about, no sudden stops, no worry about keeping your balance either! So I guess this is why some instructors feel it OK to add movements that you wouldn't "normally" perform (with proper form, of course!) on a road bike on a trail.

[kannmessina]

the majority of participants in aerobics classes (including spinning) are not outdoor bike riders. i have been in the fitness industry for 10 years, besides being a personal trainer, i teach spinning, yoga, and pilates. i teach 5 spinning classes per week, and i also ride a road bike 100-200 miles per week. the average gym member could care less whether techniques used inside will apply to outside. they want to burn calories, sweat, be entertained, and they want it over fast. as an instructor i try to keep the class as fun as possible, and sitting in the saddle for an hour will not cut it. in fact, we stand up most of the class, and to say that a standing climb is not applicable to outdoor riding is ridiculous. has anyone been watching the tour de france? they stand up quite often. just because some outdoor riders don't stand whether it be tandem, or other, doesn't mean standing is not used. anyway, i personally don't like how i have to fluff the class up because i am such an avid rider, but my people love it so i continue to do it. the popularity of my classes speaks for itself. i just stress proper body alignment for riding and we just go. nothing is planned and anything goes. they love it. everyone needs to evaluate their members and teach accordingly. good instructors teach for the members not for themselves.

[Veronica]

Wow this thread sat around for a year and got revived.

I reread what I wrote 18 months ago and it wasn't my intention to advocate that an instructor do an hour long class sitting in the saddle. But I'm glad my instructor recognizes that I may choose to do something different to suit my own fitness goals as a rider.

My riding style has changed in 18 months too. I bought Fluffy, rediscovered mountain biking and now have a personal goal of completing a double century. Yeah I know crazy - 200 miles in one day. And naturally I have to do one that is not "easy". I don't think I'll ever complete Devil Mountain Double with it's 20,000 feet of climb in 205 miles. But Knoxville seems doable. It has just a little more climb (12,000 feet) than what I did in116 miles in the DMD staff ride in April.


Amazing how things change in 18 months. But I still prefer to sit as much as possible. I'm built more like Jan or maybe even a short Magnus Backstedt. :p

Veronica

Knoxville (http://www.bbcnet.com/Knoxville/knoxvilleDC.asp)