Family defies no-bike policy at Maple Avenue Middle School

[BikeDutchess]

I saw this on the TE Facebook page (hope it wasn't posted on the forum already, I did only a quick search). I'm just amazed that a school can dictate a family how they should transport their children to school. While I understand some of the safety concerns, the policy seems bassackwards - help make the environment safer for biking, don't prohibit biking!

Family defies no-bike policy at Maple Avenue Middle School (http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2009/09/14/news/doc4aada71020507442523775.txt)

[ny biker]

They even prohibit walking to school. Amazing.

[HoosierGiant]

Our local school corporation specifically prohibits walking to school and cycling to school -- all children must arrive via automobile or big yellow bus. Each of the three elementary schools is in a small town, as is the intermediate school; only the high school is in an outlying area. Crazy!

[Grog]

This is so depressing, I could cry.

There needs to be more than a couple of parents protesting! This is A-B-S-U-R-D.

[Trek420]

Is there a local bike advocacy group? Under safe routes to school these routes benefit us all. Maybe you can get them involved, maybe start bike bus so kids and parents feel more confident.

[AnnieBikes]

With all the obesity problems in children these days, you would think that they would be ENCOURAGING kids to ride and/or walk to school. What is the problem with walking? Oh my gosh, what is this country coming to? :(

[witeowl]

I'd really like to hear the school's/district's rationale. I didn't find it in the article. Can someone enlighten me? I'm not defending them, certainly, but I feel like I'm missing something here.

[uforgot]

I can maybe give you the flip side. As a teacher, I am responsible for your child when they leave school. Ever see a group of elementary kids after school? I teach elementary dance in the summer, and I have to make sure that each one leaves with a parent, or the proper person, and that each one gets on the right bus, and yes, that the walkers arrive at their house. I'm responsible for them. If the parents are late picking them up, then I'm an after school babysitter, because I have to take care of them until their parents arrive. This was sometimes a half hour after school was dismissed. And I can also imagine a bunch on bikes with their friends, riding recklessly, or a predator waiting to snatch them, especially if they are walking. If something happens to the kids, the schools are liable. If the parents are picking them up, that's one thing, but if they are on their own after school?

I remember that one day, a grandmother picked up her grandsons (6th graders) while they were walking from school this summer. They live a couple of blocks away and they never arrived at their house. I walked their path, and the school finally reported them missing to the police. They were found, safe and sound at their grandmother's, but it was a frightening half hour. I also had a 2nd grader who was responsible for her kdg sister. Also a block away, but I wouldn't let those girls take off until the buses were gone and I could actually watch them go down the street hand in hand. The schools don't have the resources to hire extra people to help with dismissal. I understand that these kids in the article were with their parents, but so many are not. I can certainly see why they would insist they ride a bus or be picked up in a vehicle.

It's too bad that we live in such a world, but we can't just let the elementary and middle schoolers just take off where ever they want to go, and maybe not even walk or ride if they want, but the fact is, it's just too dangerous and that's a sad state of affairs, isn't it?

I think that's why those rules are in effect, and maybe they can adjust them. If they are released to a parent, guardian or someone responsible, then let them ride/walk, but if they are on their own? It's tough, even here, where we know everyone and their business.

Yeah, just one more thing I have to worry about with your child, but I care about them and I don't want anything happening to them.

[Tuckervill]

I live near four mid to elementary schools (within half a mile) and there are hundreds of kids of all ages riding bikes and walking home from school every morning and night, even though the bus picks up on my street.

I think it's wonderful.

Who was it that came up with this idea that the *school* was in charge of the kids after they leave the school? Why aren't the parents? It's illogical to me. The kids on the bus--those are yours until you drop them off. The walkers and bike riders? They're mine.

I live in a town of 20,000 and all the schools are along one main drag (except the high school). The whole street is a school zone, so we're all watching out for them. If that kid's parent doesn't see him goofing off, his next door neighbor or the secretary at church probably did!

Karen

[Tuckervill]

By coincidence, as I was searching for an article about the downtown area of my hometown burning down, I came across this in that local paper:

http://thecabin.net/news/local/2009-09-15/safe-routes-school-works-improve-quality-life

There's even a bike bus!! :)

Karen

[witeowl]

As a teacher, I am responsible for your child when they leave school.

As a middle school teacher, I sure as heck hope I'm not responsible for any of those kids when they leave school! Once they're off campus, they're considered to be on their own, and there's nothing we can do to change that. I'm not sure there's anything we should do to change that. Sure, we do what we can to make sure that nothing goes on in our nearby vicinity, particularly at the local businesses, but our zone extends well beyond walking distance into the rural areas around our school.

That said, thanks for the possible reasoning. I completely disagree, but at least it helps to have a rationalization on the flip side.

[Grog]

I understand teachers' pains, especially if for whatever reason they are made responsible (which I indeed do not think they should be).

However, while I can't say anything about kids behaving haphazardly when they walk and cycle, I am pretty sure that the risk of dying in a motor vehicle accident while returning from school is infinitely higher than the risk of being snatched by a predator. Such cases gather immense media attention, but in fact they are also extremely rare.

Now maybe a thing school boards and municipalities should be responsible for is building proper infrastructure around schools to facilitate safe active transportation...

[bmccasland]

Considering lack of exercise goes hand in hand with the rising obesity problem in this country, and good habits need to start early in life, I can't believe the school's policy! I would love to see more students walking or riding bikes and less cars. This is especially a problem around here where a lot of kids (maybe 50%) go to private schools of some sort. You would not believe the traffic jams caused by parents lining up waiting to pick up their kids after school. Parish the thougth that they even park and walk, oh no they sit there idling away. I have to remember to NOT hit my neighborhood at 3:00 thanks to the Catholic elementary school. :mad:

Part of our traffic jam problem is that schools around here are actually buried in neighborhoods, so that it's easier for kids to bike or walk. This works so long as you go to the public schools, or maybe your local parochial school, but totally falls apart if you have to send your special baby to the Very Best Private School across town.

Funny but back in the semi-dark ages when I went to public school, the policy was something to the effect that walking distance was:
elementary - 1/2 mile
middle school - 1 mile
high school - 2 miles
The school district would not provide transportation (buses) if you lived within those distances.

[Biciclista]

actually, the article is good news. I read about this when it started in May. Now they have the local health club members accompanying them to school, all on bikes. Sounds great. And Tuckerville, YOUR neighborhood sounds wonderful!

Uforgot, sounds like an unfair burden on you. I never ever considered my sons' teachers to be responsible for them after they left school!

[beccaB]

I'm a school bus driver, and I understand more than most people , the degree of liability adults in the education system have regarding students going to and leaving school grounds. We study cases in our training of lawsuits that happen and are successful. Every decision I make has a thought process of safety and liability around it. It takes an active imagination (considering scenarios of what COULD happen) and an obsessive attitude to keep these kids safe. Still, I can't imagine a school district prohibiting walking and riding a bike to and from school. Are the teenaged drivers allowed to drive their cars to school? There might be all sorts of liability with that one. Where do we draw the line?

[Triskeliongirl]

This is clearly about liability. We faced this problem when our kids wanted to walk/cycle to a summer program at a nearby school, with a strict policy that an adult has to sign the children in/out. We got out of it by signing a legal document that released the school of all liability. It was drafted by their lawyers, and boy did it make us feel like 'bad parents' to even sign it, the way their lawyers worded it, but I am sure it was the right thing to do. The school is right down the street from us, and we knew our kids were perfectly safe going there on foot or bike. And as young adults, our kids now live in a major city with good safe routes for them to commute to work on, and are both of a healthy weight, so I do think its good for kids to get started with healthy habits at a young age!

[ny biker]

I don't understand how a teacher can be held responsible for all her students until they have reached their homes.

We lived within walking distance of our elementary schools (one for K-3 and another for 4-6). Not only did we walk to school, but we also walked home every day for lunch! I used to watch soap operas with my mother and grandmother during lunch every day.

For 7-12 we had to take a bus because the school was several miles away in the next town. But we were on our own getting to and from the bus stop every day.

[Eden]

I don't understand how a teacher can be held responsible for all her students until they have reached their homes.

Indeed..... I don't quite understand how a school can mandate how you arrive in any case??? It seems like if they tried to enforce that rule there would be no way it would ever stand up.

Things sure have changed. When I was in public school you had to walk (or at very least weren't assigned to a bus) if you lived less than 2 miles from the school...

[ny biker]

Things sure have changed. When I was in public school you had to walk (or at very least weren't assigned to a bus) if you lived less than 2 miles from the school...

Yes, we walked to elementary school because there were no buses for us.

I guess my mother could have driven us, but my parents saw no point in that. I can remember my grandmother walking with me to kindergarten, and after that I walked with my brothers and sisters. I imagine someone walked with my oldest sister when she first started out, too, so she wouldn't be alone. But we all walked.

[beccaB]

I think things have changed because of ridiculous lawsuits and people not taking charge of their own responsibility. That is especially prevalent in the community I live in, although they haven't banned biking-yet. I see the lack of personal responsibility when I call parents to inform them of a behavioral problem with their child on the bus. It's always another child's fault. But that is a whole different subject.

[uforgot]

I think things have changed because of ridiculous lawsuits and people not taking charge of their own responsibility. That is especially prevalent in the community I live in, although they haven't banned biking-yet. I see the lack of personal responsibility when I call parents to inform them of a behavioral problem with their child on the bus. It's always another child's fault. But that is a whole different subject.

Exactly! There are many wonderful parents who nurture and look out for their kids, but there are also many who don't. Our students can walk and ride bikes, but I honestly can see why this other district has this policy. The whole safety issue is just getting more and more complicated. New this year for us, students cannot even sit in the hall to make up a test because they are unsupervised. In the hall, right by my door. It's a safety thing I was told. We have intruder drills now, along with fire and tornado. All outside doors except the one by the office are locked. No one can visit students. When those two kids disappeared, the mother flipped out when they didn't make it home and whose fault was it? Yup, ours. There are now some activities banned in PE because someone might get hurt. If we suspect that someone has been harassed and it isn't reported to the proper person within 24 hours, we could lose our teaching license. (Doesn't matter if you reported it elsewhere, it has to be the RIGHT person. Rules rules rules. It's happening all the time, and it happened in our district this year.

I think that it would be wonderful if all kids biked and walked to school, and I encourage it with my own students, but I'm just trying to point out why schools may be a little overboard with their rules. They are just trying to cover their you-know-whats, and believe me, there are parents willing to sue at the drop of a hat. We found out this year, that even if you are innocent, it will cost a ton of money to fight it.

I think instead of trying to bully their way through this particular instance, they should instead meet with the administration and try to come up with something agreeable to both sides. Maybe request a reason for this particular rule, and then address it from that standpoint.

Looking back at how it was when you were in school isn't even a consideration. Sure, everyone walked and biked and life was rosy and all parents were good, but unless you have gone to school since Columbine, it doesn't apply. The rules have changed for those of us in the school system. We are obligated to keep track of everyone, try to stop bullying, raise self-esteem, teach manners and consideration, make sure they have breakfast, dress properly and sometimes I also get to teach about parallel lines.

Edit: Oh, and I just want to add that I love teaching. I love these kids and I can't imagine doing anything else. This is my 31st year, and I'm not even thinking about retirement.

[tulip]

Well, just for another "when I was a kid" annoying scenario...This is not completely ancient history--late 70s/early 80s. At least I don't consider it ancient history!

I got free breakfast and free lunch, walked alone to school with a key on a string around my neck with all the other kids walking alone with a key around their necks, walked home to an empty house (thus the key), got on my bike and rode around the neighborhood with all the other kids just like me until my mother called me and my brother for dinner, and all the other parents did the same. Different hollers for different kids. One kid's dad called him in with a conch shell, of which we were all very envious. I think this was only twice a week, though, since three days a week I had ballet and cello lessons (below).

When I was nine and ten years old, twice a week after school I took the city bus to the transfer station, changed buses to the #8 Dudley Square (why do I remember these things?) bus and got off at the appropriate place for my ballet lessons. I managed my time and money in order to get there. My mother did pick me up on her way home from work. Very valuable lessons. And once a week, I walked to school with my cello (that was a looooong walk with that bulky thing!) and after school walked to the music school--about a 15-minute walk with cello--for my lesson. I was always on time.

I think there's something to be said for learning those kinds of lessons in a real-life context as a child. If everything is handed to you and you don't have to manage anything when you're young, it makes it harder when more complex issues come up later.

[witeowl]

I love how some people are bashing the parents because they're "teaching their child to break the rules".

Er... ever hear of civil disobedience? :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

Tulip, I was a parent like yours. And kudos to you for taking the bus to Dudley Square...
My oldest walked to kindergarten, a block, on the sidewalk (we lived behind the school) after I practiced with him and my nanny also walked behind him a few times. I am sure people were horrified, even back in 1989. When we moved to MA, we lived on a busy road, on the curve of a hill, so the bus dropped them at the driveway (after a couple of years of going to a daycare provider up the street). When my husband traveled, i made them get up at 6, eat, bathe, and be prepared to leave by the time I left at 6:45. I set an alarm on the clock radio and when it went off, they shut the cartoons off, went out the garage and waited for the bus in the driveway at 7:45. They were 8 and 10 and nothing bad happened. Once or twice my older son called to say he was sick and really wanted to stay home, and I let him, but I would call him every hour from school. They came home about a half hour before I did. They were not allowed to go outside or answer the phone until I got home.
We moved to a development in a more upscale town when they were in 5th and 7th grade. The other mothers and fathers walked the kids to the bus stop and stood with them on a cul-de-sac or had the kids sit in their cars if it was cold, raining, or snowing. My kids went and stood on the corner! Yes, sometimes I drove them to school, if they had meetings, etc, but really. The youngest (the racer boy) rode his mountain bike to school in 8th grade, about 6 miles and these women were mortified.
I now live in a different town and I have observed that not one parent in this neighborhood lets his/her kid get on or off of the bus without them being present. This is crazy. I mean, we are in Concord...
When I was teaching, I never felt responsible once they left my room (7th graders). If they had to stay after for extra help, I had to inform the parents a day in advance, but sometimes I broke the rules and let them use their cell phone to call and get permission that day.
Oh well. My kids were allowed to play in the woods and get lost and do other things that turned them into responsible adults.

[uforgot]

Our pre-school workshops this year were all about safety, liability, etc. We actually had an attorney for the state come talk to us and also local law enforcement. All of the things I have to do and not do make my head spin. Watch for this, watch for that, and then the legislators are telling me that I have to make everyone a rocket scientist...

You know, I just want to close my door and teach math.

[indigoiis]

Why don't they just have waivers? They have waivers for after school sports. And everything else (photos, activities, field trips.) So, if the kid wants to walk to school, the parent signs a "walker liability waiver form."

[lph]

Ok, so I guess the million dollar question is: is the world genuinely a more dangerous place for kids now than it was, or is it just that through all-pervasive media we now know about every single crime in detail? Are the kids really risking more by biking or walking to school now, or is it the other way around, that back in "the good old days" they ran higher risk, and bad things happened but we didn't hear much about them?

I know I live in a country deemed a lot safer than the states, but I also know that risk - real, genuine risk - is very hard to gauge, and almost everybody gauges it based largely on emotion. And in general I think society is a lot less accepting of risk now.

You could pick up the old seatbelt argument: "when I was a kid no-one wore seatbelts, and we all survived". But that isn't statistically reliable, and the use of seatbelts everywhere has been proved to reduce fatalities.

There isn't any reason to actively encourage higher risk, but it does become a problem when reducing risk fior children makes it harder for them to become responsible, independent, active individuals. We let our son do all sorts of stuff alone because this is important to us and we're not the worrying types, but to be honest - we're just guessing that he's reasonably safe.

sleepy here. losing my thread...

[Imperfectstorm]

Hey,

The link contains Yankee advertising : (, NE is Red Sox Nation. NY is Mid-Atlantic