Not so good news (Armstrong)...

[papaver]

Lance's bloodvalues suspicious during the TDF

http://www.flahute.com/2009/09/03/armstrongs-blood-values-suspicious/

[emily_in_nc]

Crap - I hope it is not true. It was so refreshing watching a TdF that was (relatively) unscathed by doping allegations this July.

And since I'm a Lance fan, this is especially disappointing if it does point to wrong-doing on his part. He was tested more than any other rider before and during the TdF, and I would expect him to stay clean. You just never know what to believe anymore.

[papaver]

Oh well... it isn't proof. It would be really stupid and sad if he cheated. But still...

[witeowl]

Wasn't it brought up in years before that he had what some saw as an unfair advantage because of his (medically necessary) blood transfusions? This was exactly the issue.

I'm not quite sure why anyone is surprised now at this. But I'm far from knowledgeable, so... yeah.

[katluvr]

My first response about the a possiblity of an increased hemocrit is dehydration. The article kinda "pooh-poohs" that...but it is very possible. Hemocrit is the "concenration" of red blood cells, so any depleation of the "fluid" part can lead to an increase in hct. He may have not looked/acted dehydrated, but he could of been systemically dehydrated.

To me more things would change if he was increasing his concentration of red cells. Not an expert on doping...but a nurse.

[MartianDestiny]

O give me a break!

If it wasn't Lance this wouldn't have even made the news.

Being in a standing (rather than seated) position can change the test results by more than a percent. I'm betting dehydration can account for a percent or two as well. Sorry, but you have to get out of the signal error level to convince this scientist... Not to mention that the values quoted are actually on the LOW end of normal, far lower than numbers that would cause suspicion of blood doping in anyone else. :mad:

Sounds like some snot-nosed fresh PhD grad trying to stir the pot and make a name for himself. Poo on him!

[flahute]

Wasn't it brought up in years before that he had what some saw as an unfair advantage because of his (medically necessary) blood transfusions? This was exactly the issue.

I'm not quite sure why anyone is surprised now at this. But I'm far from knowledgeable, so... yeah.

It wasn't blood transfusions that "gave him an unfair advantage"; it was the (medically necessary) EPO treatments he received while undergoing chemotherapy.

Those specific complaints/allegations were ignored, however, because the effects of EPO don't last more than a few weeks, and it was well more than a year between the last of his (medically necessary) EPO treatments in late 1996/early 1997 and his return to competition in spring 1998.

[Cataboo]

You'd think he'd be brighter than to blood dope knowing that they're looking for that.

[Kalidurga]

O give me a break!

If it wasn't Lance this wouldn't have even made the news.

Sure it would. Doping in cycling's been big news for the last couple of years. Whether it's Lance or any lesser known rider, though, it annoys the bejeebus out of me that this stuff gets into print before anything's been proven. Rumor and speculation are not news, and it's a shame that journalists can't learn that.

[ny biker]

You'd think he'd be brighter than to blood dope knowing that they're looking for that.

Also considering how often he's tested (had another visit from the testers at 6:30 this morning) and the fact that he's posting all his test results on livestrong.com.

[Cataboo]

Also considering how often he's tested (had another visit from the testers at 6:30 this morning) and the fact that he's posting all his test results on livestrong.com.

Yeah... I'd find it very odd for him to actually dope in light of all that.

But people's action often mystify me.

[MartianDestiny]

Sure it would. Doping in cycling's been big news for the last couple of years. Whether it's Lance or any lesser known rider, though, it annoys the bejeebus out of me that this stuff gets into print before anything's been proven. Rumor and speculation are not news, and it's a shame that journalists can't learn that.

You missed my point.

With THOSE NUMBERS it wouldn't have been published if it wasn't Lance because it wouldn't be suspicious if it wasn't Lance (which is to say it's not particularly suspicious).

It's a jerk "scientist" and a jerk journalist twisting the facts around and betting on the general public not having a clue what the numbers mean, what's normal, or how easily it is affected by normal things and also not caring enough or having access to the resources to look it up.

[smilingcat]

There are plenty of Lance detractors.. :mad: I really don't want to be involved on either side of things.

The tech who released the data should be fired for releasing the data. And the journalist who wrote the article is just trying to make a buck off something mundane. Is this what we call yellow journalism?

Well, it hasn't stooped low like the Brazilian newscaster who was recently arrested and implicated in several murders. He is alleged to have commissioned the gruesome killings. Strange that he happened to be in the area and got to the crime scene before the police in like 5 killings just this past year.

Just some rotten apples in journalism.

[Possegal]

This doesn't appear to be the case of a tech releasing info they shouldn't. This comes from the publically available blood values that Lance posted on his website.

[Cataboo]

I like these 2 paragraphs. A graduate student one of the leading blood researchers.

Evidence suggests that Lance Armstrong used blood doping during the Tour de France, says one of Denmark’s leading blood researchers, Jakob Mørkebjerg from Bispebjerg Hospital, to DR Sport after he saw American’s blood values.

“What we know from our research is that the hard work as a Tour de France will cause a marked decrease of these blood values, and it seems this did not happen in Lance Armstrong,” says Mørkebjerg, who has just completed a PhD thesis on blood doping.

[Owlie]

I like these 2 paragraphs. A graduate student one of the leading blood researchers.

Evidence suggests that Lance Armstrong used blood doping during the Tour de France, says one of Denmark’s leading blood researchers, Jakob Mørkebjerg from Bispebjerg Hospital, to DR Sport after he saw American’s blood values.

“What we know from our research is that the hard work as a Tour de France will cause a marked decrease of these blood values, and it seems this did not happen in Lance Armstrong,” says Mørkebjerg, who has just completed a PhD thesis on blood doping.

Okay, that's just funny. I'd like to know which planet they're living on, where a newly-minted PhD is considered an expert on anything.

[Cataboo]

I suppose if its a small field and there's not many people in it, he can be an expert.

I'm not saying that newly minted phds are not really knowledgeable, cause I was one once... but....

[Zen]

While I wouldn't consider him an expert based on time in the field, sometimes fresh eyes see things that others overlook.

This case (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/31/cameron-todd-willingham-d_n_272490.html) is somewhat of an example.

[Cataboo]

While I wouldn't consider him an expert based on time in the field, sometimes fresh eyes see things that others overlook.

This case (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/31/cameron-todd-willingham-d_n_272490.html) is somewhat of an example.

Nah, that's a case of where they actually got 5 experts in and realized that whoever decided that it was arson to begin with was wrong. Not sure what kind of defense attorneys he had to begin with though.

[ny biker]

There's nothing on velonews.com about this, and those guys can make a story out of someone's twitter feed when they think it's important. Also nothing on cyclingenews.com. Googling "armstrong blood" brings up links to cycling forums (like this one) where the original article is being discussed.

So either the cycling news organizations are taking their time to investigate, or they're not considering it worthy of repeating.

[li10up]

...a small fish in a big pond trying to make a name for himself...

[kenyonchris]

The tech who released the data should be fired for releasing the data. And the journalist who wrote the article is just trying to make a buck off something mundane. Is this what we call yellow journalism?




Yellow Jersey-ism

[Owlie]

Yellow Jersey-ism

I was waiting for someone to say that.

[tctrek]

It's just a crock of you-know-what for publicity sake. They never get tired of trying to pin this on him, even after all these years of testing where they could never find anything.

[emily_in_nc]

Yellow Jersey-ism

Love that! :)

[Triskeliongirl]

This is nothing. There are too many reasons for fluctuations in hematocrit levels to be able to make any definitive conclusions. His were all in the normal range, so to just say they might have been expected to go down over the timecourse of the race is nothing.

[Cataboo]

This is nothing. There are too many reasons for fluctuations in hematocrit levels to be able to make any definitive conclusions. His were all in the normal range, so to just say they might have been expected to go down over the timecourse of the race is nothing.

But you aren't a LEADING BLOOD RESEARCHER.

[Triskeliongirl]

But you aren't a LEADING BLOOD RESEARCHER.

No, I am a professor of biochemistry at a major medical center with 25 years of research experience..........

[Cataboo]

No, I am a professor of biochemistry at a major medical center with 25 years of research experience..........

Sorry, I should put smiley faces on my posts to indicate when I am not being serious.

[li10up]

Sorry, I should put smiley faces on my posts to indicate when I am not being serious.

I knew you were kidding.....and it was funny!:D

[Triskeliongirl]

Oh, I knew you were kidding too! No worries.

[Cataboo]

Oh, I knew you were kidding too! No worries.

I should totally write a response news article or blog, and quote Triskeliongirl as a leading blood research, professor of biochemistry for 25 years....

We can see how many of the bike blogs and/or forums then start discussing that news article.