Bad husband! No nookie!

[Tuckervill]

We were home alone Tuesday and seeing that the house was empty, we were awake, and we rarely get any privacy with a 15 year old at home, we decided to take a ride. A bike ride! (Get your mind out of the gutter!)
:D

About a mile in, I had to make him stop because my knees were complaining--I told him to go on and I would be right behind him, eventually.

As he pedaled away I noticed my front tire was flat (I'd just spent a couple of days trying to get a new tire on the bike, and finally I let him do it with his super-thumbs). I hollered after him and told him to go on and I would walk home. "are you sure?" "ya, ya, go finish the ride". He's training for a ride and I'm not so I didn't want to interrupt his training, and there was only about an hour of daylight left.

Since I was near the town trail, I decided to take that way home. I walked about 50 yards with my road shoes on and decided I could walk gingerly in my socks and not bother my knees so much, so I took the shoes off. (I encountered 3 cyclists on the trail and not a one of them asked if they could help, by the way.)

Midway home I stopped at a friend's diner and took in a glass of water and had a visit, rested my knees. Texted husband that I'd stopped there. Stayed about 20 minutes, and then continued pushing the bike home. About half way there I realized I was getting blisters on the balls of my feet from walking so gingerly (I do NOT like walking on rocks, but I thought I was protecting my knees. HA!).

Finally home and hobbling, I walk down the hall to the bathroom to find that he is IN THE SHOWER! What the...? He came all the way home, found I wasn't there, and instead of calling me to find out where he can pick me up, he gets in the SHOWER???

His lame-o excuse was that he thought I came home, changed the tube and went out again?? He knew I couldn't get the new tire on by myself. Grrrrr...

So, allow me to rant and get this off my chest.

I'm feeling much anger over this, mostly because, although he did act sheepish, he never actually apologized--just made excuses. I feel like the kid who got left at the rest stop on the family vacation. Except it's not funny. Now I have blisters on my feet and my IT band is irritated so much more for walking with my toes up, and it may not be well enough to ride my bike in Vermont next month! I can't work out because of the blister on my right foot and so the goals I've been trying to get motivated to reach are on hold yet again due to something ELSE, like it has been for months! I used to think he was a considerate person, but now I think he's just becoming a self-centered old man! I'm trying to have a sense of humor about it, but his inconsiderateness is having real consequences for me, and therefore I can't laugh. And to top it off, our son is making excuses for him, too! There's so much more that I can't articulate because I'm so MAD!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Karen

[beccaB]

Men are just dense. Mine has the brain of a rocket scientist when he needs it, but turns it off when it's not a priority. I feel your pain.

[limewave]

Something's in the air . . .

I feel your pain. My DH has been sleeping on the couch for a week. I found out last week that he's been keeping something (something hurtful) from me for almost our entire marriage! How could I be so stupid?

Then he starts apologizing left and right, says he's trying to change, be a better husband to me but he needs my help . . . an I start to soften.

And that DAY he goes and buys himself an obscenely expensive diesel engine truck that he KNEW I was adamantly against buying! We don't NEED it. We can't AFFORD it. We only had two years left to pay on our old truck and I said we could look at new one's then . . . But he had to sell it now, and we took a $5000 loss on it. SERIOUSLY. We are in the worst recession in a 100 years, we have no savings, we are struggling to pay our bills--and he thinks the best decision for our family is to completely max out our credit? Dumb*ss.

And once again he starts apologizing, says he knows he screwed up, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's really easy to say that after he's already gotten what he wants.

I'm with you on the inconsiderateness. I don't really want to start a husband bashing thread. But I feel crushed. Demolished.

I gave DH back my wedding ring. And to top it off . . . I think I'm pg again.
:(

[Biciclista]

Tuckerville, is your saddle too low on your bike? (or if you have a Brooks, did it sag?)
You have every right to be upset, I would be too.

{{{{{Limewave}}}}}

[Tuckervill]

double hugs for Limewave...

The IT band thing...I've been studying up on it. I haven't been riding much this year because of the tournament I conducted (I'm a volunteer youth baseball president). I rode in March and then a little in April, and then occasionally I was able to get to the Sunday Saunter ride and do 10 miles with newbies. There was a long ride in March wherein both IT bands got extremely tight--I could roll them out to feel better, but each ride would tighten them up again and I didn't have time to deal with it in anyway.

But I kept reading and not being able to do anything about it. Finally I tried moving my cleats all the way back, like I had read in Road Bike Rider review, and that entails lowering the seat, too. I did 20 miles a couple of Sundays ago and indeed, my IT bands did not seize up and my knees felt GOOD afterwards. Had not been back on the bike since. However, I came up with a little pain on the front of my knee--it seemed to be more related to work outs at the gym than cycling (since I had not been cycling).

I work out with a PT standing near by (he owns the gym), and he frequently adjusts my hips and checks things for me. (I've been going there for 3 years, so there are perks.) We isolated the knee pain as related to the IT band. His standard advice is to make everything stronger and in balance. There's really not much else I can do except the standard stuff.

The ride I posted about was going to be my "check-out" ride for the tweaks I've made. But now I can't put on shoes because of the blisters, and I can't walk normally which is making the knee hurt worse and I'm so ticked off at my husband for making me walk home!!! I have this deadline to get the fit dialed in because I'm leaving for 3 weeks in Vermont on the 16th...and I may not be able to ride at all. I don't want to be dialing in my fit on the side of the road in a strange town. :(:(:(

Karen

[Biciclista]

just one thing:
you said:

"I hollered after him and told him to go on and I would walk home. 'are you sure?' 'ya, ya, go finish the ride'. "

now if this had been a conversation between my DH and I, he would have believed that I really wanted to walk home and would NOT have expected to pick me up in a car... the fact that you took your shoes off and got blisters is unfortunate, but it's not really his fault; you told him to go on..

[arielmoon]

(((Tuckervill))) I feel your pain.

(((limewave))) I feel you there too.

I think I stumbled into the right thread :p Men are dense.

[Cataboo]

++++ on the hugs to both Limewave & tuckervill.


just one thing:
you said:

"I hollered after him and told him to go on and I would walk home. 'are you sure?' 'ya, ya, go finish the ride'. "

now if this had been a conversation between my DH and I, he would have believed that I really wanted to walk home and would NOT have expected to pick me up in a car... the fact that you took your shoes off and got blisters is unfortunate, but it's not really his fault; you told him to go on..

I'm not sure why he didn't stop and change her innertube if they had supplies with them. It really only takes 5 minutes if that.

But common courtesy/concern would have had him at least call/text to see where she was and if she was all right when he didn't find her at home when he got back... especially when he knew she'd been trying for a couple days to get that tire on previously... the chances of her being able to do it on her own and leave to bike again a day or so after she spent a few days trying to get a tire on were kind of slim.

[Biciclista]

++++ on the hugs to both Limewave & tuckervill.


But common courtesy/concern would have had him at least call/text to see where she was and if she was all right when he didn't find her at home when he got back... especially when he knew she'd been trying for a couple days to get that tire on previously... the chances of her being able to do it on her own and leave to bike again a day or so after she spent a few days trying to get a tire on were kind of slim.
At that point, sounds like he was just coming up with a story to cover his a$$.
And she did text him, so he knew she was still ok and still not asking for a ride.
I'm not saying that he's 100% smelling like a rose, but that communication is VERY important. Tell him what you REALLY mean. and if he doesn't like it, fine, but at least you gave him the right message.

[lph]

You know, this is the kind of situation that depends so much on the person. If I'd said that I was fine and would walk home, plus texted that I'd stopped on the way, I wouldn't expect to be "missed" for hours. That's me, and my dh.

You and your dh have different "habits", and I'm assuming you're upset at him because he should know you better. But personally I'd probably have done the same thing.

[shootingstar]

I'm not saying that he's 100% smelling like a rose, but that communication is VERY important. Tell him what you REALLY mean. and if he doesn't like it, fine, but at least you gave him the right message.

Unless Tuckerville changed her mind that she needed help /ride after all mid-way through her walk home..

When I tell dearie to buzz off or I really need his help, he responds accordingly (whatever his response he chooses), the words I say to him. In fact, I have a style of talking to any loved one (meaning other family members), in short phrases and assume that the other person will understand/be able to complete my incomplete instructions. That's great for creative/poetic people, but not for my dearie who thinks abit differently than I.

Occasionally he gets annoyed me and asks me:" Tell me exactly what you are trying to say"..which means I must tell him what I am thinking/feeling and what I would like him to do.

He wouldn't cycle back to check on me, walking homeward. (remember we don't have a car. :D)

But he does cycle around in circles ahead of me, if I'm doing a bike ride with him and I'm way behind. :D

[indysteel]

Tuckerville, I'm sorry you and your DH had a fight. As for the IT band stuff, have you considered whether your crank is to blame? My Campy triple caused me to have IT band issues in my right leg. Its q-factor (a fancy name for its width), was too wide for me. I switched to a compact on my new bike and, voila, no IT band issues. Just a thought. It's a fit issue for a lot of women that I don't think gets much press.

Limewave, I am really sorry about what you're going through. It sounds like you and your husband have some signficant trust issues to work on. Have you considered couple's counseling?

[tulip]

And that DAY he goes and buys himself an obscenely expensive diesel engine truck that he KNEW I was adamantly against buying! We don't NEED it. We can't AFFORD it. We only had two years left to pay on our old truck and I said we could look at new one's then . . . But he had to sell it now, and we took a $5000 loss on it.

That IS serious. Wowza, you've got quite a case on your hands. I mean, to go out and buy a TRUCK?? It's not like he went out and bought a pair of shoes or something...A TRUCK?? Did he think you wouldn't find out? Call a family counselor for this one. So much for partnership, eh? I've been there. Best of luck to you.

[Tuckervill]

just one thing:
you said:

"I hollered after him and told him to go on and I would walk home. 'are you sure?' 'ya, ya, go finish the ride'. "

now if this had been a conversation between my DH and I, he would have believed that I really wanted to walk home and would NOT have expected to pick me up in a car... the fact that you took your shoes off and got blisters is unfortunate, but it's not really his fault; you told him to go on..

Except, after he rode for an hour, and got home, and I STILL wasn't home, wouldn't you think he'd call to check? Check his phone to see if I called? And I happily walked home, not expecting a ride (or to get blisters) and NOT EXPECTING HIM TO BE THERE, thinking he was still on his training ride, or SURELY he would have called to check on the status and well-being of his only beloved in such an instance? He knew my knees were hurting, too.

After all, anything could happen. He calls me to check on much more mundane things.

Karen

[Eden]

Dare I be devil's advocate and point out that you had a phone.... you could have called him and asked for a ride home at any point.

[Tuckervill]

++++ on the hugs to both Limewave & tuckervill.



I'm not sure why he didn't stop and change her innertube if they had supplies with them. It really only takes 5 minutes if that.

But common courtesy/concern would have had him at least call/text to see where she was and if she was all right when he didn't find her at home when he got back... especially when he knew she'd been trying for a couple days to get that tire on previously... the chances of her being able to do it on her own and leave to bike again a day or so after she spent a few days trying to get a tire on were kind of slim.

Exactly. I didn't ask him to change it by the road because daylight was burning, and he was already warmed up and had a goal. And the tire still gave him a hard time the first time and then later when we changed the tube again (although it will be easier next time since it's already mounted).

I did something NICE for him, by encouraging him to go on.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

At that point, sounds like he was just coming up with a story to cover his a$$.
And she did text him, so he knew she was still ok and still not asking for a ride.
I'm not saying that he's 100% smelling like a rose, but that communication is VERY important. Tell him what you REALLY mean. and if he doesn't like it, fine, but at least you gave him the right message.

He didn't read the text until after he was out of the shower and I told him I had texted him. I still wouldn't have expected him to stop his ride to come and get me. But since he was finished anyway...

Karen

[shootingstar]

Something's in the air . . .

I feel your pain. My DH has been sleeping on the couch for a week. I found out last week that he's been keeping something (something hurtful) from me for almost our entire marriage! How could I be so stupid?

Then he starts apologizing left and right, says he's trying to change, be a better husband to me but he needs my help . . . an I start to soften.

And that DAY he goes and buys himself an obscenely expensive diesel engine truck that he KNEW I was adamantly against buying! We don't NEED it. We can't AFFORD it. We only had two years left to pay on our old truck and I said we could look at new one's then . . . But he had to sell it now, and we took a $5000 loss on it. SERIOUSLY. We are in the worst recession in a 100 years, we have no savings, we are struggling to pay our bills--and he thinks the best decision for our family is to completely max out our credit? Dumb*ss.

And once again he starts apologizing, says he knows he screwed up, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's really easy to say that after he's already gotten what he wants.

I'm with you on the inconsiderateness. I don't really want to start a husband bashing thread. But I feel crushed. Demolished.

I gave DH back my wedding ring. And to top it off . . . I think I'm pg again.
:(


sounds like whatever hurt you which also later, precipitated his rash, childish act of a new truck and putting one further in debt (It is when you both have 2 children, +3 on the way.), is a serious touchy point.

Like tulip said...both need a counsellor soon. This is highly stressful.

[Tuckervill]

Dare I be devil's advocate and point out that you had a phone.... you could have called him and asked for a ride home at any point.

He wouldn't have answered it. He didn't read the text. The only thing he could have done differently was to THINK a little harder when he discovered I still wasn't home. Prior to that point, we were both operating on certain assumptions, and there's no fault involved. If I had called he wouldn't have even known until he was out of the shower (which is another problem all together).

Karen

[tulip]

I understand you are angry...but it seems like you are angry because he didn't do what you wanted him to do, yet it seems like you gave the opposite signals.

You said "Go on for your ride"

You texted him from your friend's saying you were there. You did not mention if you said in your text that you would like a ride home, but I assume you did not. It seems reasonable that he would have figured you were hanging out and would come home afterwards.

It also seems reasonable that if you wanted a ride, you could have asked for one when you texted him.

But I get it...he should have known. It's hard to realize that sometimes we have to actually say what we want.

EDIT: I see that you mentioned that he did not read the text so he did not know you were at your friend's. Ah, well, sometimes things don't work out like we want them to. Next time, you'll know to be more specific. We cannot control what people do, we can only control our responses to what they do.

[indigoiis]

Hey, just chiming in...

If you could turn the clock back and have this scene play out differently, how would you have it play out? Think it through from beginning to end, including the interaction and all of the conversation, and see what he and you might have done differently to avoid you feeling hurt.

Write it down and then read it, and think about what it is that you really wanted. Oftentimes it was not the obvious thing we thought we wanted.

[Pax]

(((((Limeweave))))) So sorry about your situation, sounds just miserable. :(

[smilingcat]

Tucker,

wish you a speedy recovery. Also sounds like you need to be doing more stretching.

Limewave,

Ohhh :( :( :( I didn't read the last part. Are you close to your family member like a sister or parents? Get away from your place and hang out with them for a while? Devastating is an understatement.

We are here for you. If you need to vent or to talk or talk to someone who has gone through similar experience, just let us know.

sincerely,

[Tuckervill]

Oh, I know what I really wanted. I wanted him to be concerned enough for my safety that when he noticed I wasn't home, yet (which would be a red flag for me and I would have called him), knowing that I was only walking a mile and he was riding 20, and it should have taken him longer than it did me had I not stopped, that he should have the sense of curiousity to at least CHECK his phone, and if he hadn't heard from me at all to give me a call to find out if I was alright.

He was just being a bonehead. Sometimes he "checks out" at home and I have to remind him that he is a part of the household. This is a symptom of it beginning to happen again. I love my husband, and we didn't fight about it--we discussed it, and he forgot to apologize, and after almost 20 years of marriage I shouldn't have to ask for a little consideration.

It is a (small letters) big deal to me but not enough to make a BIG DEAL out of it with him, and talking it over here is helping to excise the aggravation. I'll get over it.

Karen

[Blueberry]

Karen- Glad you're feeling better about it. I'd be aggravated too - if I'm not where someone expects me, it's always nice if they call and check. Vent away.

Limewave - it really sounds from your post here (and from some of your previous posts about your relationship) that you have some very serious issues going on. I have to echo what others have said - please seek the help of a professional - for you and for your kids!

CA

[Selkie]

Marriage is such hard work.... sigh.

Limewave, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I don't know what to tell you but I'm sending you lots of hugs.

I think Tulip is a smart cookie about the need for clear communication in relationships. DH and I just hit the 21 years of marriage mark last weekend---the road hasn't always been smooth but it has given both of us ample opportunity to grow and become better people/partners. Recognizing that you cannot and will not change someone is the key. Can you live with what the things you want to change or can you learn to accept them?

[Wahine]

Not that I'm an expert or anything but I do want to share a bit of my experience because I think it relates directly to these issues.

I was with my husband as a couple for 17 years. 9 cohabitating and 8 married. I left him September last year. What I've learned since I've left is that I did not express my needs or wants clearly with him. I would tell him something, he would blow it off and since I have always believed that the only persons behaviour you can change is your own, I modified my behaviour and would never express to him how his behaviour affected me. In my mind, I couldn't change him and I shouldn't expect him to. He is what he is. Eventually I had to leave because I couldn't live with him with things the way they were.

Since we have separated, he has told me so many times that he is so disappointed that I did not communicate what was bothering me well enough to give him a chance to realize how dire things were and to give him a chance to change.

I don't regret my decision. I think there were a lot of reasons that our marriage was not meant to last, though it was very good for many years. But I have learned that expressing exactly what it is that you need or want is very important. I am generalizing but I have to say that I think that men tend not to be as intuitive as women are and simply will not "get it" unless you spell it out very clearly. That means asking for what you want AND when things like this are going on, telling them how that made you feel and what your expectations were. And give the guy a chance to change. Maybe you have to remind him periodically... but don't we all need reminders about some things?

My new BF has told me to NEVER assume that he has any idea what I want or need and that he'd much rather me tell him clearly so that he can be the best he can be for me. I think that's a pretty good policy.

[DDH]

Well the way I see it, she expressed herself as to what she wanted, but the circumstances changed after they departed from each others company.

I agree that when he came home and saw that you were not there yet, he should have (in my opinion) called you to see where you were at the least.
I would think he would have been concerned about why you weren't home yet. Especially since he did not get your text.
Basically the way I see it, he owes you a heartfelt apology.

Unfortunately, Most Men, tend to be self serving first and then think about others, where Women tend to think of others first and then think about themselves, if there is time left to think about themselves.
This difference in behavior leads to many a fight between couples. Women think "why doesn't he think about me", and men think "ah she said she would be fine, I'm going to take a shower".

[Crankin]

I am going to play the devil's advocate, too. It seems like this is a communication problem. Nobody can be expected to "know" what you want them to do, unless you explicitly tell them. We all have different communication styles and the way we learn to use them is from our family of origin.
I don't buy this "men are this way, women are that way" thing. We are all different. My husband does not automatically think of himself first, but on the other hand, I can categorically say that I don't put others first all the time, either. Women are socialized to do that... whether it's right or wrong, is up for us each to decide, but I decided a long time ago that taking care of myself was the most important thing I could do. This was after a horrible first marriage that wrecked my self esteem and sanity. You may think this is selfish, but if I didn't take care of me, than what good would I be as a partner or a parent?
Since I am coming upon my 30th anniversary, I think my strategy has worked.
I also think Limewave and Tuckerville know what they need to do; it might not be easy, but they are on the right track.

[channlluv]

{{{Tuckerville}}} and {{{Limewave}}}

I can relate to both your stories. D*H and I have had a really rocky road the last several years. We've been together for 15, married for 14. We have one beautiful daughter, but I've lost three to miscarriage, and there were two more positive home tests, but they didn't last long enough to be counted as official pregnancies.

We've had, and do have, serious financial issues, and recently he's decided that he's not feeling connected enough to me to continue trying to make our marriage work. Maybe he's right. Marriage is really, really hard sometimes.

It's breaking my heart. So yeah, I get both of you.

Here's to an easier path home for all of us.

Roxy

[Tri Girl]

Hugs to all of you dealing with stressful marriages or break-ups of marriage. I pray it gets better (whatever that may be for you).

Karen- I would have been upset, too. Even tho I would have done the same as you (go on- I'm fine), I still would have liked for him to call and check on me if I wasn't home when he got home. Even tho you may not have been crystal clear, it would have been nice for him to at least see if you were OK since you weren't home.
I guess it's a good thing, but my DH doesn't stress if I'm not home when I say I'll be. One time I was an hour later than I told him I'd be on my bike ride, and he didn't even think twice about it. If it were the other way around, I'd have been calling him to see if he was OK. I guess we really ARE from two different planets.

[mudmucker]

I am generalizing but I have to say that I think that men tend not to be as intuitive as women are and simply will not "get it" unless you spell it out very clearly.

Yes! This has been my experience in communicating with men exactly. And I have been dating for 32 years.




We've had, and do have, serious financial issues, and recently he's decided that he's not feeling connected enough to me to continue trying to make our marriage work.

It's breaking my heart.


Ach. Gosh you guys. Now one more...

{{{Tuckerville}}} and {{{Limewave}}} and {{{Channnlluv}}}

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

But I have learned that expressing exactly what it is that you need or want is very important. I am generalizing but I have to say that I think that men tend not to be as intuitive as women are and simply will not "get it" unless you spell it out very clearly....
...My new BF has told me to NEVER assume that he has any idea what I want or need and that he'd much rather me tell him clearly so that he can be the best he can be for me. I think that's a pretty good policy.

Yes, that policy works very well for my husband and me. We are very clear with each other, going both ways. We've worked hard at doing this, and it's worth it. No one can be expected to be a mind reader.

[Mr. Bloom]

indigoiis +1

FWIW: Silver feels very capable when she's on the road and gets upset if I get concerned. She'll call if she needs help...but it's hard for me to NOT do what you expected Mr. T to do...but I would have gotten the dickens if I did:(:(:confused::confused:

As mysterious as men may be to women...sometimes vice versa applies as well

[OakLeaf]

No advice, just hugs to all three of you.

[Kris]

Hugs to all three of you from me too.

The first year we were married, (33 years ago) I had to give DH some serious lessons in apologizing. He didn't think it was necessary, or didn't want to admit that much fault, or something. I insisted that he apologize for problems. The one I specifically remember was him coming home hours later than expected. He thought the explanation of what he had been doing was enough, no apology needed. Wrong. So then he knew that he was supposed to apologize when he messed up, but he'd say something like, "I'm sorry you got upset about it." Arrrrgghhh! That was even worse, because it seemed to be putting the blame on me. It took several lessons, plus some modeling on my part, but eventually he started getting it right, and now we can laugh about it. He would never buy a truck without getting to consensus, though. That's a whole nother situation, and I agree it needs some professional help.

[MartianDestiny]

indigoiis +1

FWIW: Silver feels very capable when she's on the road and gets upset if I get concerned. She'll call if she needs help...but it's hard for me to NOT do what you expected Mr. T to do...but I would have gotten the dickens if I did:(:(:confused::confused:

As mysterious as men may be to women...sometimes vice versa applies as well

I'm the same way as Silver apparently. If I don't call you and say "call 911" or "come get me", or I don't leave specific instructions to "call if you don't hear from me by XXX", then I'm fine, leave me the heck alone and don't you DARE call and ask "still ok?". I can take care of my own darn self.

I feel for Tuckerville. Obviously we all work differently and there was a combination of communication failure and a "brain fall out of head" moment and it's unfortunate.

Small wonder men don't get us though ;)

[Grog]

Big slow hugs to the three of you. Much love and courage your way.

[indigoiis]

I DO think men and women think differently. My husband often has no clue when I am upset or disappointed in him - and when I back him into a corner over a little misunderstanding, it usually results in no change, only more disappointment. So I get it. I try to be clear and try to give him some peace, and some slack, and he generally tries to be more considerate (because I have asked him to be.)

I love the following story. It's funny but it is also very true.

---

The Differences Between Men and Women
> --------------------------------------
>
> Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He
> asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A
> few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy
> themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a
> while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.
>
> And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to
> Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: "Do you
> realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly
> six months?"
>
> And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very
> loud silence. She thinks to herself: Gee, I wonder if it bothers him
> that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our
> relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of
> obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.
>
> And Roger is thinking: Gosh. Six months.
>
> And Elaine is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of
> relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so
> I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going
> the way we are, moving steadily toward . . . I mean, where are we
> going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of
> intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a
> lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I
> really even know this person?
>
> And Roger is thinking: ... so that means it was ... let's see ...
> February when we started going out, which was right after I had the
> car at the dealer's, which means ... lemme check the odometer ...
> Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here.
>
> And Elaine is thinking: He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe
> I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our
> relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed --
> even before I sensed it -- that I was feeling some reservations. Yes,
> I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about
> his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected.
>
> And Roger is thinking: And I'm gonna have them look at the
> transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not
> shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold
> weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out, and this
> thing is shifting like a stinking garbage truck, and I paid those
> incompetent thieves $600.
>
> And Elaine is thinking: He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be
> angry, too. God, I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I
> can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.
>
> And Roger is thinking: They'll probably say it's only a 90- day
> warranty. That's exactly what they're gonna say, the scumballs.
>
> And Elaine is thinking: maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a
> knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right
> next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person
> I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A
> person who is in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic
> fantasy.
>
> And Roger is thinking: Warranty? They want a warranty? I'll give them
> a worthless warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it right up
> their .... .
>
> "Roger," Elaine says aloud.
>
> "What?" says Roger, startled.
>
> "Please don't torture yourself like this," she says, her eyes
> beginning to brim with tears. "Maybe I should never have ... Oh God, I
> feel so ... so ..." (She breaks down, sobbing.)
>
> "What?" says Roger.
>
> "I'm such a fool," Elaine sobs. "I mean, I know there's no knight. I
> really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no
> horse."
>
> "There's no horse?" says Roger.
>
> "You think I'm a fool, don't you?" Elaine says.
>
> "No!" says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer.
>
> "It's just that ... It's that I ... I need some time," Elaine says.
>
> (There is a 15-second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can,
> tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with one
> that he thinks might work.)
>
> "Yes," he says.
>
> (Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand.)
>
> "Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?" she says.
>
> "What way?" says Roger.
>
> "That way about time," says Elaine.
>
> "Oh," says Roger. "Yes."
>
> (Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him
> to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it
> involves a horse. At last she speaks.)
>
> "Thank you, Roger," she says.
>
> "Thank you," says Roger.
>
> Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted,
> tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roger gets back to
> his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and immediately
> becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two
> Czechoslovakians he never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses
> of his mind tells him that something major was going on back there in
> the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever
> understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think
> about it. (This is also Roger's policy regarding world hunger.)
>
> The next day Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of
> them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours.
> In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and
> everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every
> word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering
> every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss this
> subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any
> definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it, either.
>
> Meanwhile, Roger, while playing racquetball one day with a mutual
> friend of his and Elaine's, will pause just before serving, frown, and
> say: "Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse?"

[beccaB]

Something's in the air . . .

I feel your pain. My DH has been sleeping on the couch for a week. I found out last week that he's been keeping something (something hurtful) from me for almost our entire marriage! How could I be so stupid?

Then he starts apologizing left and right, says he's trying to change, be a better husband to me but he needs my help . . . an I start to soften.

And that DAY he goes and buys himself an obscenely expensive diesel engine truck that he KNEW I was adamantly against buying! We don't NEED it. We can't AFFORD it. We only had two years left to pay on our old truck and I said we could look at new one's then . . . But he had to sell it now, and we took a $5000 loss on it. SERIOUSLY. We are in the worst recession in a 100 years, we have no savings, we are struggling to pay our bills--and he thinks the best decision for our family is to completely max out our credit? Dumb*ss.

And once again he starts apologizing, says he knows he screwed up, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's really easy to say that after he's already gotten what he wants.

I'm with you on the inconsiderateness. I don't really want to start a husband bashing thread. But I feel crushed. Demolished.

I gave DH back my wedding ring. And to top it off . . . I think I'm pg again.
:(

It must be a Michigan thing. Everyone is depressed.

[ClockworkOrange]

Hey guys, things are no different the other side of the world! :cool:

I so wish I could come up with some sensible answers but I cannot, although many people have written some good stuff on here.

My heart really does go out to you, Tuckerville, Limewave and Channnlluv.

I was married for 18 years and had similar problems and if I had that time over again, I am not so sure I would know how to do things any differently!

Just take good care of yourselves and perhaps try and talk about everything together.

Hugs

Clock

[wannaduacentury]

EDIT: I see that you mentioned that he did not read the text so he did not know you were at your friend's. Ah, well, sometimes things don't work out like we want them to. Next time, you'll know to be more specific. We cannot control what people do, we can only control our responses to what they do.


+1
Well said Tulip. Unfortunately, sometimes we do have to spell out what we want. I wish we could all be mindreaders, but it is not to be. Her husband should also work on being more considerate.

{{Limewave}}I'm really sorry for your struggle. In this economy, and the way it puts stress on people w/ the unemployment and mortgage crisis, we're just all trying to hold on to what we have. Sometimes, the only thing I can figure is someone just wants to feel better by buying something manly and expensive/materialistic to make them feel better and in more control of their situation and their perception of their place in the world. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do-go out on a spending spree. You're supposed to be a team and a team works together. I understand that you feel a trust has been broken. I'll keep you in my prayers. Jenn

[Selkie]

..... Recognizing that you cannot and will not change someone is the key. Can you live with what the things you want to change or can you learn to accept them?

I didn't clearly articulate what I meant: you can't MAKE someone change. Therefore, sometimes you either have to accept the behavior or move on.

Both my husband and I have changed a good deal since we met. We have been fortunate that we've grown together and have not had any insurmountable differences. Basic respect for each other is the key and of course, trying to live by the golden rule.

[indigoiis]

I heard this quote recently - forgive me for paraphrasing... an old woman was asked what was the secret to her glorious 50+ year marriage and she stuck her tongue out, and then said, "see all the bite marks?"

[deedolce]

Indigoiis, I love that bit written by that Barry guy! I'm such an 'Elaine' it isn't funny!

Communication is something I'm REALLY working on, and it's not easy for me. This thread is really hard to read for that reason, seeing all sides and everyone has a point! How much do you cut the hubby some slack and when IS it a big enough deal to bring up to talk about it? What happens when logically you know and understand his actions, and it's not a big deal like Tuckerville posted, but if it bothers her and makes her angry, then why isn't it a BIG DEAL with caps? Do you go by situation or emotions to grade the importance to 'work it out' with your spouse and spend the energy and time to hash it out?

Hugs to all of you that are going through heartache, in such difficult times. :(

[Biciclista]

I heard this quote recently - forgive me for paraphrasing... an old woman was asked what was the secret to her glorious 50+ year marriage and she stuck her tongue out, and then said, "see all the bite marks?"

AH WISDOM!

[Ana]

My new BF has told me to NEVER assume that he has any idea what I want or need and that he'd much rather me tell him clearly so that he can be the best he can be for me. I think that's a pretty good policy.

I think many people struggle with communicating their needs and wants to others, especially since it's so obvious to ourselves (inside our heads). :p It takes a lot of effort to remember to outwardly communicate things that seem obvious to ourselves. It's the kind of thing where it is often better to overcommunicate rather than undercommunicate.

Culturally, I believe men are not as accustomed to using language to express themselves. Additionally, male-to-male communication oftentimes directly include their immediate feedback or wants (sometimes lacking tact or finesse...).

[DDH]

Indigoiis, I love that bit written by that Barry guy! I'm such an 'Elaine' it isn't funny!

Communication is something I'm REALLY working on, and it's not easy for me. This thread is really hard to read for that reason, seeing all sides and everyone has a point! How much do you cut the hubby some slack and when IS it a big enough deal to bring up to talk about it? What happens when logically you know and understand his actions, and it's not a big deal like Tuckerville posted, but if it bothers her and makes her angry, then why isn't it a BIG DEAL with caps? Do you go by situation or emotions to grade the importance to 'work it out' with your spouse and spend the energy and time to hash it out?

Hugs to all of you that are going through heartache, in such difficult times. :(

If you are asking this literally, then it's going to be a different answer for everyone. Everyone's interpretation of importance is different. What might be important to one won't be to another.
I always go by, is it really worth potentially causing an argument. For example, and this is just something small. My husband never pushes in the dining room chair. Use to drive me insane, and I learned to bite my lip and just walk by and push it in myself. I said something at first, many times but once I realized he just wasn't going to get it I quit trying. It just wasn't worth expending the energy it took getting aggravated, nor was it worth starting an argument over. I have learned to live with it. It still bugs me sometimes, but most of the time I go by and push it in without even realizing I'm doing it.

[Tri Girl]

I always go by, is it really worth potentially causing an argument.

That's the standard I live by. I admit that I'm highly obsessive/compulsive/anal about many things. Things I wasn't obsessive about when DH and I started dating/living together. Things back then that didn't bug me bug me now. It's not his fault I've become a little weird about stuff. If it's worth getting into an argument, I do. If it isn't, I don't. I figure he puts up with a lot of crap from me, too, so I need to put up with his crap as well. Plus, I'm not breaking in a new model at this point. The only way out is in a casket... but I hope that's not for a very long time.
Of course- if he does something over the top that breaks trust/damages our financial future/cheats, etc... all bets are off. I'm going for the jugular. There are certainly many situations that are unacceptable.

I like the story of the old woman with the bite marks on the tongue story. Hee hee. So true. :)

[Crankin]

I'm starting to wonder if I am the only one who is happily married, for a long time. This is not to make judgements, just an observation. It just seems like there is so much unhappiness around...

[tulip]

I'm starting to wonder if I am the only one who is happily married, for a long time. This is not to make judgements, just an observation. It just seems like there is so much unhappiness around...

But it wasn't always so for you, Crankin. I remember you talking about your first marriage, which was less than rosy. I think many people have periods of very good in their relationships, and periods of not-so-good or even very bad. I was married for a long time, and most of it was very good. I'm now in a very positive relationship, but no longer married.

Like me, you probably learned alot in your first marriage, and are able to apply those lessons in your current marriage. Marriage takes work and communication. And I truly do believe that people can "grow apart" if the relationship is not nurtured.

If one is not happy in a relationship, there are options. One can stay for staying's sake, work hard with the other person to make changes for the better, or leave the relationship. The staying-for-staying's sake option is the worst one, although I think alot of people do it anyways.

[Crankin]

My first marriage was so long ago, I barely consider it; I was married for a year, and I knew when to leave...there are a lot of options.
I truly am just making an observation. For example, of all of the couples we were good friends with in AZ, when my kids were little are now divorced. Back then, we used to be a little jealous of some of them. They all had more money, traveled more, none of the women worked (not that I wanted that one). But, when I look back, I think I could have predicted all but one of these. The couple that was the "perfect family," and the closest to us, divorced about 5 years ago. My friend is remarried and her ex has a steady, but this was somewhat disconcerting to my whole family. Separately, both my kids sent me an email after I told them, questioning whether we were going to get divorced.
It's just sad...

[salsabike]

I'm starting to wonder if I am the only one who is happily married, for a long time. This is not to make judgements, just an observation. It just seems like there is so much unhappiness around...

You aren't the only one. I am. My close personal friends are also happily married. Several of my good, local cycling buddies are ditto.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

You aren't the only one. I am.

Me too. I've gotten better at relationships (relationships with friends, with my spouse, with my children, with myself) as I've gotten older. I used to have a terrible time long ago though.

[Crankin]

Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity.
Lisa, I knew you would chime in.
I used to be a little on the mean side to guys who were nice to me... Steve cured me of that. Heck, I am nice to everyone now!

[beccaB]

I think I have a good one almost always, but he does act like a typical man sometimes. It's really hard to understand his logic at times, but I would definately not trade him in for a different model! There just aren't any as good! He came out to find me one night when I was biking back from a friend's house almost in the dark. He didn't call me on my cell to find out where I was, he actually came out in the car! I did find that I have to very specifically tell him what I need and want, It's frustrating, and seems selfish that I have to spell it out, but men just don't think like we do!

[Tuckervill]

I'm starting to wonder if I am the only one who is happily married, for a long time. This is not to make judgements, just an observation. It just seems like there is so much unhappiness around...

I have a happy marriage, too. We just occasionally have "incidents". lol. I think couples who don't disagree once in a while aren't really engaged with each other.

Karen

[DDH]

I consider my marriage a happy one. We argue once in a while, but shoot, I argue with my friends and siblings on occasion too.
I can tell you this, I would rather fight with him, than live without him.
I know that when you are fighting,(not literal), it always feels like the end, and you feel like, why do I bother but once it's over, if it wasn't a deal breaker I mean, then you wonder, why did I let that affect me so bad. At least I do that. I admit that it's not perfect, but nothing is.
He is a jerk at times, but so am I. I certainly wouldn't want to date or find a new one. The grass is not always greener on the other side and you might find what you had was worth having once you lose it. Of course the opposite could be true also. I'm just happy enough not to want to try to find out.

[Crankin]

We disagree on things, and may have a heated discussion, but these are not usually about important things. The big stuff, well, I decided a long time ago that I needed to be with someone who was on the same page about the important things. I also think that as the years have gone on, my husband has become more like me in some things, mostly attitudes/values. Of course, I became like him, when I started cycling; not that we didn't get along before that, but because of cycling, we spend almost all of our free time together. Sometimes we are with others, as we do have an active social life, but not always. Before that, I was always going to the gym very early in the AM, before work, not to disrupt family time and he barely exercised until 1998.
MY DH is from a very dysfunctional family and I think he learned a lot about what he didn't want to be like from observing them, especially his father. When we were first married, he spent a lot of time with my parents and I think it was his first experience with non-judgmental people. It worked. I would never call him a jerk, because he never acts like one. If he ever does something I don't like, I just tell him and I try to be calm, because he spent too many years getting called a jerk, moron, a**hole, etc by his dad.
I judge the quality of our relationship by the way my adult sons treat their girlfriends. A very good barometer!

[wannaduacentury]

I have a happy marriage, too. We just occasionally have "incidents". lol. I think couples who don't disagree once in a while aren't really engaged with each other.

Karen
+1 I'm in a happy mariage too. 14 years on Aug 19th. I have friends who've gotten divorced recently and I can emphathize with them. They tried, it just didn't work. Sometimes I feel like the odd one out too b/c I'm not a single out dating. Jenn

[Biciclista]

another happy marriage here, 31 years. It didn't start happy, and I actually threw him out more than once, but people can learn, and people can change, and two people committed to having a good healthy relationship can make a crapshoot marriage into a wonderful marriage.

Neither of us are perfect, we argue, make mistakes, he yells (I rarely yell) but we together continue to try to make our marriage better. It's a work in progress, it's like a treasured plant, or even a baby. you have to take care of it EVERY SINGLE DAY.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

It's a work in progress, it's like a treasured plant, or even a baby. you have to take care of it EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So very true! :)

[lph]

another happy marriage here, 31 years. It didn't start happy, and I actually threw him out more than once, but people can learn, and people can change, and two people committed to having a good healthy relationship can make a crapshoot marriage into a wonderful marriage.

Neither of us are perfect, we argue, make mistakes, he yells (I rarely yell) but we together continue to try to make our marriage better. It's a work in progress, it's like a treasured plant, or even a baby. you have to take care of it EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Best thing I've read today, mimi. :) Nice.

[arielmoon]

Not that I'm an expert or anything but I do want to share a bit of my experience because I think it relates directly to these issues.

I was with my husband as a couple for 17 years. 9 cohabitating and 8 married. I left him September last year. What I've learned since I've left is that I did not express my needs or wants clearly with him. I would tell him something, he would blow it off and since I have always believed that the only persons behaviour you can change is your own, I modified my behaviour and would never express to him how his behaviour affected me. In my mind, I couldn't change him and I shouldn't expect him to. He is what he is. Eventually I had to leave because I couldn't live with him with things the way they were.

Since we have separated, he has told me so many times that he is so disappointed that I did not communicate what was bothering me well enough to give him a chance to realize how dire things were and to give him a chance to change.

I don't regret my decision. I think there were a lot of reasons that our marriage was not meant to last, though it was very good for many years. But I have learned that expressing exactly what it is that you need or want is very important. I am generalizing but I have to say that I think that men tend not to be as intuitive as women are and simply will not "get it" unless you spell it out very clearly. That means asking for what you want AND when things like this are going on, telling them how that made you feel and what your expectations were. And give the guy a chance to change. Maybe you have to remind him periodically... but don't we all need reminders about some things?

My new BF has told me to NEVER assume that he has any idea what I want or need and that he'd much rather me tell him clearly so that he can be the best he can be for me. I think that's a pretty good policy.

Wow this sounds so much like my marriage. Together 14 years married for only 4.

Unfortunately I find myself in a similar situation with a decent guy. This one though, says he wants to change and wants me to help him change but I dont want to be a nag ("how much did that cost?" "we didnt really need that!" "how many nights have you eaten out?" "If you would stop eating crap you might be a better cyclist!" "Just because they are vegan cookies doesnt mean they are fair game!") so I just try to ignore things until I find that I just cant stand to be around him.

Man I sound like such a (b)witch, where is my broom?

I am considering seeing a therapist cause I cant decide if I would be walking away from a good thing or doing the right thing. :confused:

[Biciclista]

Wahine, your new bf gave you great advice!

[tulip]

Wahine, your post is wonderful. I went through much the same with my marriage (together 17 years, married 13). I also am the one who left, for many reasons, but most of those reasons can be linked to communication issues. I, too, am happier now, but of course there is and always will be sadness at what could have been (but was not). Thanks.

Arielmoon, seeing a counselor really benefitted me, and I recommend it to anyone who will listen.

[deedolce]

Yep, my question was literal, thanks! I was raised in a very Asian family in the sense that I did what I was told and didn't question much of anything, no matter how I felt about it. I might be unhappy, but I would never express it. So as an adult, I find that I question my emotions and responses, for the most part going along with things to prevent unpleasantness.

I was unhappy ALOT in my first marriage! :rolleyes: Now, 20 years later, I have another serious relationship, and I find myself challenged in what it takes to have a healthy relationship. Bf is a great help there, thank goodness, but it's a HECK of a lot of work :eek:

[Biciclista]

Now, 20 years later, I have another serious relationship, and I find myself challenged in what it takes to have a healthy relationship. Bf is a great help there, thank goodness, but it's a HECK of a lot of work :eek:

yes, it IS a heck of a lot of work. But consider the alternative!

[DDH]

anything worth having takes work. Lots and lots of work. We tend to think that love shouldn't be so hard, but it is, even in the most intimate of relationships. We work hard at our jobs to make money and have success, we work hard raising children in order to teach them to be honest hard working productive parts of society, shoot we even work hard at our friendships at times, we work hard with our hobbies, but then we lose all perspective when it comes to our SO's. At least I know I do at times.

[Grog]

anything worth having takes work. Lots and lots of work. We tend to think that love shouldn't be so hard, but it is, even in the most intimate of relationships. We work hard at our jobs to make money and have success, we work hard raising children in order to teach them to be honest hard working productive parts of society, shoot we even work hard at our friendships at times, we work hard with our hobbies, but then we lose all perspective when it comes to our SO's. At least I know I do at times.

Nicely said.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yeah Donna, wise words. :)

Every day I see the title of this thread and think "geez just how long is this poor guy going to be 'cut off' for?" :o :D

Even if you're mad about something, don't let a single day go by without telling your partner how wonderful you think they are.

[tulip]

...

Even if you're mad about something, don't let a single day go by without telling your partner how wonderful you think they are.

and SHOWING them with your actions!

[Wahine]

Wahine, your new bf gave you great advice!

Yeah. And he rides a bike like a daemon. :D:D

We were friends before I was separated and it was actually the fact that he, as my friend only and with no expectations, treated me better and with more sensitivity than my husband did that made me reevaluate what I wanted. I thought long and hard about my decision to leave and it was the scariest thing I have ever done. But almost exactly one year later, I am very proud of myself for making a decision that ultimately is better for both of us and doing it in a responsible adult manner that has allowed my ex and I to still be friends and have an ongoing positive relationship, albeit a very different one.

So now I'm on a new path and I intend to work really hard to make this last as long as it's healthy for both of us.

[indysteel]

Yeah. And he rides a bike like a deamon. :D:D

We were friends before I was separated and it was actually the fact that he, as my friend only and with no expectations, treated me better and with more sensitivity than my husband did that made me reevaluate what I wanted. I thought long and hard about my decision to leave and it was the scariest thing I have ever done. But almost exactly one year later, I am very proud of myself for making a decision that ultimately is better for both of us and doing it in a responsible adult manner that has allowed my ex and I to still be friends and have an ongoing positive relationship, albeit a very different one.

So now I'm on a new path and I intend to work really hard to make this last as long as it's healthy for both of us.

That's great Wahine! I'm really happy for you!!!!