Do you have a question for Specialized Women's Product Team?

[rlambert]

Ask a question, get an answer! Have your questions answered by Specialized Women's Brand and Product Manager, Eron Chorney and Women's Mountain Product Developer, Rachael Lambert. Ask us a question and we will give you a video answer. You can ask anything from product questions to questions about riding to tips on getting into biking. Go to

http://www.facebook.com/pages/SpecializedWMN/218728855634 or

www.twitter.com/specializedwmn to post your question

Thanks!

[administrator]

Hi Rachael,

Please take a moment and introduce yourself on a personal basis. Some of the forum members have PM'd me about your posts being potentially too "commercial/spam". I think you have something of value to offer to the community, and a bit more personal info/participation would help establish your bona fides here :)

[rlambert]

Hello everybody! My name is Rachael Lambert and I am a part of the Specialized Women's Product Team. Primarily I work on mountain bike development but I am also a part of a growing team of people using social networking to talk and engage with riders. I am an avid mountain biker and occasional commuter and some of us here thought it would be interesting and engaging to find out what kinds of questions you have about cycling, riding, gear and products. If you have a question for us and want to get an answer, we are doing short video answers to all your questions on our Facebook Fanpage. Thanks!

[Triskeliongirl]

I think Jeff's point is to just try to observe how we interact and become one of us. Commerical posts are not permitted. However, we do have women on the board that work in the industry, and of course they bring their expertise and perspective to the board. For example, Margo of Luna Cyling is on the board. But she doesn't blatantly promote her bikes, she just comments on things of interest to her (especially in the maintenance section), and in so doing, gives us a sense of her depth of expertise which makes many of us want to give her strong consideration if/when we are in the market for a custom bike.

So, I think its fine if you want to post that you are sponsoring a ride in San Francisco in the regional ride listings, just be careful that all your posts don't come off as being commercial.

[rlambert]

I agree that being a member is really where the value is. I am new to cycling forums in general and wanted to start some dialogue with people who are using them. In an attempt to find out what is important and interesting to other riders (besides myself and the women I ride with), I wanted to open an discussion on what questions you would have for a product team, not to sell you a bike, but to find out what your questions, interests and riding styles are. I will work to be sensitive to the fact that this is a place for people to communicate and not to sell themselves. Thank you.

[Zen]

I think you'd find those things out by becoming an active forum participant. Or at least reading past posts.

[snapdragen]

My, what a friendly welcome. Just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.... I'll be R feels the same.

[rlambert]

Hey All, I am sorry if I got off on a wrong foot here. As a piece of background, I have been following this forum for almost a year and find the dialogue VERY engaging. However, I have struggled wanting to jump in on a lot of the discussions because I didn't want to seem like I was just pushing my agenda or products. I thought the best way to start on this forum was to introduce myself and get any questions and comments from you on how I can participate in the conversation from a brand and product perspective. If this is not the place for it, I totally understand but really I am trying to talk and learn about why you cycle and what your cycling interests are. Thanks. R

[Tuckervill]

Hey, R. No worries. Just jump in. Be yourself. Share your bike life like the rest of us do. If there's a reason to mention what you do, go ahead. You were just trying to be helpful. Nothing wrong with that.

Karen

[spazzdog]

Hi Rachael!

Welcome to TE. Do jump into the different forums... I mean, after all - you are a woman that cycles. I think you "get it" about not being too commercial, but you do have an opinion as a cyclist and folks (in whatever subject the thread is in) might be interested in hearing it.

Make some friends, join some folks that are local to you for a ride... enjoy!

spazzdog

p.s. there are some specialized riders here (me for one) so once folks get to know you, you might be able to post a fun poll or something.

[Triskeliongirl]

Yeh, that is what I was trying to say. Just be yourself. And WELCOME!! Participate as all of us do, first as a women who cycles, second as an employee of specialized. Maybe you can use a link in your sig. file to the specialized site, but keep the main dialogue here about your passion for cycling.

[ehirsch83]

Hey Rachael,
Welcome to the boards! I also joined the facebook group:)
Glad to have you finally joining in. I love what Specialized does for women(I want to work for them b/c of that actually!). From the products, to the demo reps and diva nights at shops, you gals are very great at engaging women into cycling.

[ny biker]

I saw no problem with the OP. It's a chance to get info directly from someone who represents the company, similar to asking Susan questions about TE. And Rachael is looking for general cycling questions, not just Specialized-specific things.

I think I might have some questions about the different saddles. I just need to get my brain to formulate something more specific than "will I like one of them?"

[ekcjwc]

Welcome! I'm new too and love reading the posts. I have learned so much. I ride a Cannondale but wear almost all Specialized stuff. Silly, I know but I love what Specialized does for women. Have been glancing at the 2010 Specialized Riata shoes that support the Susan Komen Foundation.

[salsabike]

I thought you were perfectly polite and responsive to the admin's request to give a little more info. I'm glad you're trying to get good information out to women cyclists. Welcome to TE!

[Alex]

Welcome! I appreciate any company that is interested in the woman cyclist and I hope you find some good information here.

I have no questions at the moment, but I will tell you I love Specialized gloves (both the fingerless gel gloves for road riding and the full fingered gloves for mountain biking). I am also very happy with my Ruby saddle. :-)

There are MANY friendly folks here, but sometimes we just lurk....

Alex

[KnottedYet]

I don't think there's anything in particular I'd like to ask Specialized, but I (like Alex) want to give you some praise.

Love LOVE the Body Geometry gloves. Women's sizes don't fit me right, but the men's are great! Likewise the Body Geometry Taho mtb shoes. I can't wear the women's (too narrow in the toes) but the men's are fabulous.

The Body Geometry line is wonderful, and I recommend it to my patients fairly often. Especially the shoes: having the built-in medial post in the forefoot is such a good idea!

[rlambert]

Thank you guys all for the super friendly introduction to the page and site. And thanks also for all the praise on the product. I am pretty excited to get started with this and also field any product or general riding related questions (of course I will be needing some help too I am sure with questions of my own :)) I am really excited to hear and learn from female cyclists from all over the country!

Hey NY Biker! If you do come up with some saddle questions, let er rip. We just got done doing some really interesting saddle testing with a pressure scanner!

[rlambert]

Welcome! I'm new too and love reading the posts. I have learned so much. I ride a Cannondale but wear almost all Specialized stuff. Silly, I know but I love what Specialized does for women. Have been glancing at the 2010 Specialized Riata shoes that support the Susan Komen Foundation.

That's awesome! The Riata were my first pair of clipless shoes! I used them on a road bike and then started mountain biking in them. I upgraded a few years ago, but kept them for so long as my back-up pair.

[redrhodie]

That's awesome! The Riata were my first pair of clipless shoes! I used them on a road bike and then started mountain biking in them. I upgraded a few years ago, but kept them for so long as my back-up pair.

Riatas were mine, too! I just got new BG carbon pro Mtbs 2 days ago. They're awesome! I'll still use the riatas for winter. They're great in freezing cold.

[KnottedYet]

Hey NY Biker! If you do come up with some saddle questions, let er rip. We just got done doing some really interesting saddle testing with a pressure scanner!

OOH! OOH! Data! I want data!
Trek funded some studies I was able to get a hold of, but I found their protocol to be pretty badly flawed. When a rep was demo-ing their amazing new concept in women's saddles at a shin-dig in SF, the only other woman in the group and I were both grimacing in anticipatory pain. (they've since trashed their amazing new concept and wisely moved on to a different but assuredly equally amazing new concept)

Is Specialized's data going to be trade secret, or will it be published? Can you share? (I won't tell, I promise!)

[rlambert]

OOH! OOH! Data! I want data!
Trek funded some studies I was able to get a hold of, but I found their protocol to be pretty badly flawed. When a rep was demo-ing their amazing new concept in women's saddles at a shin-dig in SF, the only other woman in the group and I were both grimacing in anticipatory pain. (they've since trashed their amazing new concept and wisely moved on to a different but assuredly equally amazing new concept)

Is Specialized's data going to be trade secret, or will it be published? Can you share? (I won't tell, I promise!)

We are trying to get some pics or video of the demonstration and testing here soon. It is super interesting to watch. The craziest part is how aware women are of exactly what is bothering them. They will describe something and sure enough it is right there substantiated on the screen!

[Trek420]

The craziest part is how aware women are of exactly what is bothering them. They will describe something and sure enough it is right there substantiated on the screen!

What a surprise. Women say "ow ow ow that hurts!" and by dang gum it does :p

Thank you for the shoes :cool: I have a broken toe and can't wear road shoes anymore or at least have not found a pair that don't cramp my boo boo toe. :( Specialized Tahoe are supportive, fit nice and tight and still room for that one broken toe. Without 'em I'd be wearing cycling sandals, or buying two pair of shoes to have two different sizes and then trying to sell the spare shoe on TE ;) :p not that there's anything wrong with that. :cool:

Thank you!!

I have one question: Bike Snob NY thinks this video:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=33018

is produced by Performance bike co. Any inside scoop? :p :D

[crazycanuck]

Hey Rachael,

I love the Spec BG Gloves BUT please stop making them ONLY IN BLUE with flowery stuff on them!!!! :mad: (Also, i'm not sure what the Australian market gets compared to the US market??)

I'm not a girly girl & don't like blue stuff. Please continue to make them in black.

Other than that, tis coolio that you're asking opinions!!! :)

C

[OakLeaf]

Welcome - sorry you kind of got off on the wrong foot with some people, but yeah - the best way to become part of this community is to jump in and talk about YOUR riding, not ours! But as to your post, are you looking for questions or requests? Because I think a lot of us have requests... :p

I do have a question though. How exactly are your saddles measured? I've been riding a 155 mm Lithia and doing pretty much okay with it (although I would have a couple of requests for a different saddle...) but when I measured it, I really couldn't come up with 155 mm any place. I just got a Jett that I haven't tried yet, and it says 155 mm also, but looks narrower in back than the Lithia. If it turns out when I ride it that it really is narrower than the Lithia, I'm going to have to send it back - the Lithia is just barely wide enough for me.

[Triskeliongirl]

I have a sadde question. I know very little about specialized saddles, but I am always on the lookout for a saddle that supports me like the brooks finesse (so the width and T-shape is good) but has longer rails in the front for more setback, and is lighter in weight for performance. Do you folks make such a thing, or are you thinking about such things? I find most saddles out there are too narrow for my sit bones.

[Kris]

I was over on the Commuters thread reading about hair problems, and thought, "Maybe this is a problem some company could work on." And then I thought of this thread. So here's my question for Specialized: Since a lot of women are reluctant to ride, or to ride more often, because they don't want to have flat, frizzy or wet hair with dents in it when they get where they're going, are there any helmets or other products that will help us have work-worthy hairdos, and, if not, could you put someone to work on inventing some?
I'm aware that many women couldn't care less, but if we want more people out of their air-conditioned cars and on bikes, someone needs to address this.
:)

[SpinSpinSugar]

Hi Rachel. My question is - why does Specialized not produce a WSD steel road/touring bike? My local specialized dealer told me "Oh... you're looking for steel? Hmmmmm.... no..... nope.. nothing in steel."

There are racks and rows of Carbon & Aluminum WSD bikes, but not steel? It's a shame because I'm having a devil of a time trying to find a bike that fits.. One of the size 51cm WSD aluminum models fit me like a glove.... (can't remember which) but I would never buy an Aluminum bike for touring in a million years.

Surely not all women are interested in being roadies only?

/Rant over

SpinSpinSugar

[Eden]

I know you're in the mountain bike division, so this isn't really your field, but my question is why does it look like you've all taken two steps back with your women's racing bikes? Last year you finally had small bikes equal to the men's models. Now I see the new Amira only goes up to the "Expert" level model and comes with a compact crank standard. Give us a little credit...

[rlambert]

Hey Rachael,
Welcome to the boards! I also joined the facebook group:)
Glad to have you finally joining in. I love what Specialized does for women(I want to work for them b/c of that actually!). From the products, to the demo reps and diva nights at shops, you gals are very great at engaging women into cycling.

That is awesome, thanks for being a part of the facebook group! Have you seen our job boards?

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/sbcJobs.jsp

[rlambert]

What a surprise. Women say "ow ow ow that hurts!" and by dang gum it does :p

Thank you for the shoes :cool: I have a broken toe and can't wear road shoes anymore or at least have not found a pair that don't cramp my boo boo toe. :( Specialized Tahoe are supportive, fit nice and tight and still room for that one broken toe. Without 'em I'd be wearing cycling sandals, or buying two pair of shoes to have two different sizes and then trying to sell the spare shoe on TE ;) :p not that there's anything wrong with that. :cool:

Thank you!!

I have one question: Bike Snob NY thinks this video:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=33018

is produced by Performance bike co. Any inside scoop? :p :D

HA! We have all been sending that around here too. I wish I knew who made that because it is truly hilarious!

[smilingcat]

Hi Rachel,

I occasionally ride my Transition Pro (2007??) equipped with SRAM groupo and with Toupe seat. I don't take it out on a group ride because of safety issue.

My other bike also has Toupe. Both of my toupes' have Ti rail. and I have a spare Jett saddle.

I don't know why but I found the Toupe to be bit more comfortable then the Jett130 and the Jet is for women while the Toupe is for men. Equivalent to Toupe is the ruby saddle. Am bit nervous about spending more money to try out the Ruby.

First set of question. I've asked and really didn't get an answer from LBS.
Soo what's the difference between Ruby and Toupe? Is it just marketing or something different in construction?

Second thing. I'm bit peeved with my small transition pro frame. I wanted to point out the problems to the gals at 2008 Cindrella classic ride, the gals manning the booth just blew me off when I wanted to let them know about the problem. Sooo, please pass this on.
The nuts brazed on the frame for the water bottle cage needs to be located better. Only cage I can put on the frame and still be able to put a bottle in/out would be a side mount cage where the bottle comes in and out from the side and not from the top. I'm not about to use a "side entry" cage for fear of dropping my bottle during a ride. Riding over your own bottle is one thing but not having any water is really :mad: I ended up mounting a tri style cage behind my saddle. It's mounted on the rail. It's a compromise. Please tell them when they make a smaller frame to check to make sure everything works right and not just cut the tubes shorter to make the frame smaller. On my frame the nuts needs to be placed closer to the bottom bracket. There is no way to mount two water bottles but having a choice between the seat tube or the down tube would be a nice touch. One water bottle is plenty for most TTs anyway. Both locations are too high up, too close to the top tube or the steer tube. Even a short water bottles would get jammed.

I don't think the bike is UCI legal because of the seat position. It is sitting forward for Tri and not set for TT. (I think I know what I'm talking about).

BTW, I love the color scheme on my frame it's metallic red and greyish silver.

Thanks for letting me vent, and +1 with Eden. I ride 39/53 chain ring and now that I'm getting OLDER, I may think about using a compact double. but not yet. Give us a choice.

[Triskeliongirl]

Smiling cat, FYI I have arundel brand side entry cages http://www.arundelbike.com/sideloader.html?p=1.1.1.3
on my 48 cm cervelo RS, and have never had a problem with the bottles falling out.

I actually like them a lot more than top loaders, even when there is 'room' for them on a small frame, as they are more natural for getting the bottles in and out.

My gripe with specialized bikes is the seat tube angles are way too steep for me on the smaller sizes. I would have loved to get a ruby, but the cerevelo was the only bike with a slack enough seat tube angle for me to get a properly set up KOP.

[rlambert]

Welcome - sorry you kind of got off on the wrong foot with some people, but yeah - the best way to become part of this community is to jump in and talk about YOUR riding, not ours! But as to your post, are you looking for questions or requests? Because I think a lot of us have requests... :p

I do have a question though. How exactly are your saddles measured? I've been riding a 155 mm Lithia and doing pretty much okay with it (although I would have a couple of requests for a different saddle...) but when I measured it, I really couldn't come up with 155 mm any place. I just got a Jett that I haven't tried yet, and it says 155 mm also, but looks narrower in back than the Lithia. If it turns out when I ride it that it really is narrower than the Lithia, I'm going to have to send it back - the Lithia is just barely wide enough for me.

Thanks so much for the question. To answer it, we measure our saddle width from the widest area on the saddle. A lot of times it is helpful to measure it from the underside in order to visually be able to see where the widest spot is. We just launched a new Saddle Test program with our local Specialized dealers that should be available at dealers in September. It is a way to try the saddles out without having to purchase them. The width of the Jett and the Lithia will be the same, but the amount of padding will obviously be quite different which can visually alter how wide it looks. I hope this answers your question. If you have any further questions, please let me know!

[rlambert]

I was over on the Commuters thread reading about hair problems, and thought, "Maybe this is a problem some company could work on." And then I thought of this thread. So here's my question for Specialized: Since a lot of women are reluctant to ride, or to ride more often, because they don't want to have flat, frizzy or wet hair with dents in it when they get where they're going, are there any helmets or other products that will help us have work-worthy hairdos, and, if not, could you put someone to work on inventing some?
I'm aware that many women couldn't care less, but if we want more people out of their air-conditioned cars and on bikes, someone needs to address this.
:)

While I totally understand this question and think it is very valid, did any of you ever see the clip from Scrubs and the "Hairmet"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0rGoWtF-hs

I have however, passed your request and suggestions off to our helmet development team. I agree that it would be a great way to encourage people who otherwise wouldn't commute to have one less reason not to!

[spazzdog]

see my post in the hair thread...

spazz

[aicabsolut]

I don't have any questions right now, but I have some comments.

The BG Pro gloves need to go back to how they were a couple years ago (before the weird vents in the thumb). Now they are really tight at the knuckles for what used to be the right size (and the next size up is huge). The thumb vent things detract from the soft snot rag material on the thumb. I have 2 pairs of the older style, but they don't last very long. If it helps, I wear men's. Women's gloves don't fit me in pretty much any brand.

I'm really excited that women FINALLY get an S-works road shoe. However, I wish the price was a bit closer to the Pro.

Oh, wait, here's a question. Why do the Toupe and Ruby saddles have that plastic nose tip? Is that ever going away? I've seen the new Toupe has a slightly smaller one. I've read a lot of complaints on this board and other cycling forums about this feature. It really sucks to be mid-sprint and to have that point occasionally jab me in the thigh.

[tride]

hi rachel~welcome!

sooooo, even though I have certain sponsors that I ride, wear, promote, etc (Specialized is NOT one of them~though they are welcome to be =) !!!) I always ride the Ruby saddles. *my girly parts luv it!* Here's my question...how does a girl go about getting one of your new test saddles? Feel free to just simply send us all one, btw. ;-)

Also, I have a suggestion: I am not OPPOSED to the more 'feminine' offerings of Specialized (with most of their line, in general) but PLEASE allow us women who do NOT care for flowers, light/baby blue, pink, etc. other options. It seems to me that Specialized offers a better overall quality, with more options available, to their men's products than to their women's (from the basics of socks clear up to a fully equipped bike). I find it a little insulting and condescending, personally. Just something to bring up if/when you get a chance =).

thanks for joining us! *still newbie, myself*
kimberly

[Triskeliongirl]

Good points on color choices. I too hate the girly girl colors. For a bike I like nude carbon cuz it doesn't show the dirt and there is no added paint weight. For clothes, I like screaming yellow so I am seen in traffic. Maybe I'm just too practical, but something to consider.

[Tuckervill]

I don't think blue is girly. Honestly, these manufacturers can't win when picking colors. I would like plain color and schemes more than flowery, but there are people here who really like flowery. I love graphical patterns. I love the Jelly Belly bikes with jelly beans all over them.

My Dolce is blue. My Trek 1000 was blue (I guess it still is, but I don't have it anymore). Lots of my cycling clothes and my helmet are blue. I like blue! :)

I think we should cut the manufacturers some slack with the color schemes. They can't please everyone.

Karen

[bmccasland]

I think we should cut the manufacturers some slack with the color schemes. They can't please everyone.

Karen

Maybe, but I'm sick of the Girl = baby Pink thing. Ick ick ick.

Whoever invented the boy = blue, girl = pink should be slapped up-side the head as far as I'm concerned. Give me blue over pink any day! :p

[leathela]

Welcome!

I don't really have a specific question, but just wanted to say that I ride both a Myka Elite and a Dolce Triple, and love them. I feel like Specialized really undestands WSD. So...keep up the good work! I was so excited to see the 2010 models.

[withm]

OK I'll bite. I just ordered a Dolce Comp. What color water bottle cages should I get? (I haven't seen the bike yet... but want to get a head start on the accessories.)

[Bluetree]

I know you're in the mountain bike division, so this isn't really your field, but my question is why does it look like you've all taken two steps back with your women's racing bikes? Last year you finally had small bikes equal to the men's models. Now I see the new Amira only goes up to the "Expert" level model and comes with a compact crank standard. Give us a little credit...

@Eden
My dealer says he can deliver me a 44cm S-Works Amira frameset by November. Apparently, it is the lightest frame in Spesh's lineup, and since their lightest Tarmac is out of the box at 13.9, it should be something. But yeah, it's a compact.

@Smilingcat
Arundel carbon sideloading cages are very secure. If you would like to try them out, I have an extra pair you can borrow. But I agree, since Spec offers some of the smallest size frames, they could have thought about the cages more. (I also have an extra 143 Ruby saddle).

Comments/questions...
• No pinky flowery stuff for me. I would go custom before I rode something stereotypically "girly"

• Spec's clothing line is not up to the quality of their bikes. Designs are uninspring and seem tailored towards casual riders. No BIB shorts for women? Come on...

• As much as I like the patented BB on my S-Works Ruby, I wish they would make it a standard BB30 so I can use other cranksets with gluing in a sleeve. The S-Works chainrings don't work with Campy chains as well as the FSA and SRAM cranksets on my other bikes.

• I was interested in the integrated Ruby Barmac... Until I found out that is was actually heavier than my Ruby handlebar-stem combo. That seems counterproductive. Will this be improved, or will the Barmac be continued as a blingy novelty?

• After countless saddle/handlebar changes, all of my bikes now have Ruby SL saddles and Ruby 38cm carbon bars. Your products rock.

•

[rlambert]

Hey Everybody,

First off, thank you all for the questions and comments, they are so insightful. I have only answered a handful of the questions and we are going to answer the rest of them with a video reply from Eron Chorney, our women's brand manager. I really appreciate how thorough all the feedback has been as well as all the comments on product and colors and graphics. We will post it up on here by the middle of this week and will include answers to saddle questions, road bikes, bottle cages and colors and graphics. Thanks again!

Rachael

[SadieKate]

Comments/questions...
• Spec's clothing line is not up to the quality of their bikes. Designs are uninspring and seem tailored towards casual riders. No BIB shorts for women? Come on...
Yeah, but their Enduro short rocks. It is the only mtb short with decent length inseam and back seat seam -- and fits me without resorting to a stupid and unflattering elastic waistband. I have found no other short that fits the bill.

Now, if Specialized would allow mail order so I could buy from TE and sell the shell and inner liner separately, I'd be a happy camper. I'm paying $120 for a shell and storing the liner on the shelf because, as usual, the liner and the shell aren't sized the same. How about 60 bucks for each?

[SadieKate]

I have one question: Bike Snob NY thinks this video:

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=33018

is produced by Performance bike co. Any inside scoop? :p :D


HA! We have all been sending that around here too. I wish I knew who made that because it is truly hilarious!

Youtube shows Robin Moore and one of the videos shows that he is from Santa Cruz. Voila! Google is your friend. Perhaps Bike Snob should try it. :rolleyes:

http://www.robinmooreproductions.com/Home.html

[Becky]

Yeah, but their Enduro short rocks. It is the only mtb short with decent length inseam and back seat seam -- and fits me without resorting to a stupid and unflattering elastic waistband. I have found no other short that fits the bill.

Now, if Specialized would allow mail order so I could buy from TE and sell the shell and inner liner separately, I'd be a happy camper. I'm paying $120 for a shell and storing the liner on the shelf because, as usual, the liner and the shell aren't sized the same. How about 60 bucks for each?

It's not just Specialized. This seems to plague most women's mtb shorts. They're often silly short, or the inner liner is terrible. The only decent mtb short I've found is the Sugoi Gusta, but the liner is so-so (for me), and it's hard to justify $120 for the outer short alone.

You can buy lycra shorts in different lengths, why not mtb shorts?

[Susan Otcenas]

Ladies,

I'd like to chime in here to discuss the general theme of this thread.

Jeff & I have been talking about this thread in some detail and are quite conflicted about it. On the one hand, our mission is to advance women's cycling and part of the way to do that is to have great discussions like this one regarding what kinds of products do and don't work for us as cyclists, specifically as female cyclists. On the other hand, we do not permit commercial posts on this forum. While being helpful, Rachel is clearly "on company time" with a goal to actively promote Specialized products and services, talking about producing videos, etc. I think this potentially violates the "no advertising" rules. We have other industry folks on this list who are active participants sharing their knowledge without crossing the line into commercialism.

I don't think we want the forums to turn into a market research / marketing vehicle for every cycling company out there. If we permit threads such as this, where do we draw the line? We are receiving PMs from people who feel the line *has* been crossed here and we need to be sensitive to that.

This is a community, so we want to hear from YOU about how you feel on this subject. I'll ask that you keep it civil. :-) No final decisions have been made, so please let us know what you think. Thanks ladies!


Susan

[SadieKate]

I agree with you. If I could mailorder Specialized products from you, I'd would be sitting on the fence. But since Specialized has weird marketing rules, well, I'm on your side o' the fence.

[Thorn]

It has bothered me from the onset and I've read the thread with an odd fascination.

If Rachel was a participant, it wouldn't bother me. If she was here answering questions as well as participating, it wouldn't bother me.

But in response to questions people have taken the time to place, we learn the answers will be on a different site. That isn't in the spirit of the site. In fact, I'd go so far as to ask how it is different from gavin_m?

[ehirsch83]

It doesn't bother me one bit and oddly, I am surprised that this bothered so many people.

[salsabike]

I don't feel strongly about it in either direction.

[aicabsolut]

I was hoping that Specialized would use this as a way to do more market research than to push their products. So far, that's the vibe I'm getting, and I'm ok with that. I think that getting some answers to questions is a bonus. I like Specialized products, but I wouldn't mind if another company took this approach. For example, I think it'd be great if Trek people came here and said, I've searched this board and found that a lot of you can't stand our Bontrager saddles; we've been working hard on them, but we'd like some more feedback and questions from you on our women's line.

[aicabsolut]

@Eden


• As much as I like the patented BB on my S-Works Ruby, I wish they would make it a standard BB30 so I can use other cranksets with gluing in a sleeve. The S-Works chainrings don't work with Campy chains as well as the FSA and SRAM cranksets on my other bikes.




psst Bluetree, you can use a standard BB30 crank on a specialized frame. Any sleeve insert would adapt it to for an English or Italian external BB. While Specialized says their oversized BB isn't "exactly" a BB30, I've seen plenty of SRAM Red BB30 cranks, SRMs and the like work just fine on Specialized bikes, because people often want to swap out the cranks on a complete team bike or whatever because early generation Sworks cranks got a pretty bad rap, or because they want to use an SRM.

[Kiwi Stoker]

I used to work in the bike industry and I am respectful of what special website we have here.

Personally while I was working there all I did here was to read the discussions and occassionally pass on comments to other people in the company which I thought was helpful. It wasn't until after I left that I joined and started participating.

Unfortunately I do believe Rachel and Co has probably crossed the line in the sense they are using this site for free to gain market research etc and traffic from it to their site (and that is what you pay online ads to do). This site is unique and cool because TE hasn't used it as a way to generate extra funds by allowing advertising throughout this forum.

And its not like Rachel is from a start up company that needs help, Specialized can afford market research and does so by their women's travelling roadshows etc.

I like how this is a neutral space where we can discuss everything. As others mentioned I think it would be OK for Rachel to paricipate on this forum as a woman rider and not with her Specialized marketing hat on.

[Bluetree]

psst Bluetree, you can use a standard BB30 crank on a specialized frame. Any sleeve insert would adapt it to for an English or Italian external BB. While Specialized says their oversized BB isn't "exactly" a BB30, I've seen plenty of SRAM Red BB30 cranks, SRMs and the like work just fine on Specialized bikes, because people often want to swap out the cranks on a complete team bike or whatever because early generation Sworks cranks got a pretty bad rap, or because they want to use an SRM.

Inserting a sleeve for a BB30 isn't a big issue for me. But a couple of mechanic-friends have told me was a PITA it is to remove a glued sleeve from an S-Works frame. Since an aftermarket S-works crankset has little resale value, I'd like to put it back on the bike if/when I flip it for another model. My gripe is mainly that I wished Spec would conform with the BB30, which is rapidly becoming industry standard. Same with their distinct bolt pattern that won't let me use different rings. Its like Pinarello and their weirdly sized seatposts... I keep thinking "why?"

(Keep in mind that I have the same non-conformity complaints about Internet browsers and clothing dress sizes) ;)

[OakLeaf]

I'm with Thorn.

Several of us have invited Rachel to become part of this community. Now, I don't read every single thread, but at this point I don't know anything about Rachel except for the cursory (and, I thought, a little testy) intro she posted in this thread.

If she'd spent enough time here to know something about this community, she'd have an idea of how we value this space. And that we appreciate TE on many levels - for hosting this space, for their great selection of products, for their terrific customer service, and for keeping their advertising unintrusive here.

I don't think Rachel should be banned (not at this point, anyhow). But if she doesn't want to be respectful of TE as a commercial enterprise, and of this community, then I don't know that she has much of value to offer us.

[aicabsolut]

But it is a BB30. You can use any BB30 crank on the frame. It's just a pain to use a non-BB30 crank (like English or Italian threaded BB) b/c you'd have to install the threaded sleeve.
Do you mean the BCD isn't the same on the rings/cranks? Like it wouldn't take FSA or Shimano rings?

[jobob]

I'm with Thorn & Oakleaf.

[Tokie]

Susan - I agree with you. And I love the ongoing discussion about bottom brackets and compatibility too - this is just like a family holiday dinner, with multiple conversations going on at once. tokie

[BellaMTB]

This thread seems to have gone in several different directions, but I just wanted to add my comments about the color choices on WSD bikes - I agree with several of the previous posts about not liking the obviously "girly" color schemes (esp. pink) - probably a visceral reaction from childhood experiences. Aside from that, I think the practical consideration of resale value is also important (probably harder to sell a pink bike). I realize you can't please everyone, but my main complaint is that many of the bikes (especially higher-end) only come in one color. If I don't like that color, I won't buy it. I am very particular about the colors I will buy. I'd like to add that I do like the subtle monochromatic patterns (e.g. "Tribal") on some of the new Specialized 2010 WSD bikes.

Now for my last LBS bike color experience: I was shopping for a higher-end Specialized MTB a few years back and politely asked the sales manager if the model I was looking at came in any other color. He stared at me and replied: "Guys don't care." !!!?? Needless to say I bought my bike elsewhere.

(re. rlambert's participation - OK by me, though I am new here.)

[teigyr]

After looking at this all, I have to agree with Susan. While the powers that be here are very patient, I think we all forget what this website and forum are. I didn't realize that TE doesn't sell Specialized products (at least I don't think so?) and using this forum doesn't appear to be 100% ethical.

I have nothing against Rachel or Specialized and I understand why the TE message boards would be a prime group of people to contact. I also think it was pushing boundaries, a bit.

[spazzdog]

While I understand Susan's point, I think its a bit late to get the horses back in the barn. We all already know Rachel is with Specialized so she will be forever peppered with "why can't Specialized do..." type questions.

I don't believe she should be banned or anything - she's female and a cyclist for pete's sake.

Perhaps Rachel (sorry - didn't mean to speak as though you weren't in the room), you should simply come as a participant and leave the corporate out of it. You can still take things you observe back to your development team, but avoid those pesky lines of demarcation.

As for the rest of us, lets try to not get Rachel in any more hot water. If you have a Specialized specific question, PM it to her.

Remember - she like each of us, has something to share AS a cyclist - that's if she still wants to play with us.

my 2 cents - spazzdog

[Susan Otcenas]

I don't believe she should be banned or anything - she's female and a cyclist for pete's sake.


Just to be clear - I'm not suggesting this.

What we're trying to gain is some clarity on where to draw the line on the type of participation permitted by forum members who have a clear commercial interest at stake.

We are very grateful to all of you who are willing to share your thoughts here. Jeff & I have also been receiving PMs on the subject, and are carefully considering all of your comments. Thank you so much for letting us know what you think!

Susan

[gnat23]

PS, everyone who is poo-pooing the pink stuff, I will gladly take it off your hands.

-- gnat!

[rlambert]

In response to the growing concern that the administrator and others have for my participation on this forum, I will discontinue this thread and use of the forum. While it is true that I am participating in the forum as a Specialized employee, I believe that as an avid cyclist who works for a bicycle company I am always representing my company whether out on the trails or on a forum and thought that full disclosure of the company I represent would be more truthful.

I have read and gleaned a lot from these forums over the past year and have noticed a lot of questions about cycling/products/riding , but I was hesitant to jump in and participate as I am not normally an active forum user. However, I thought the opportunity to open a discussion with full disclosure about who I was would encourage a dialogue about what women want from a cycling company and what they aren’t getting. It is true that I have used this for research and to encourage people to participate in our Facebook page but mostly the research has been to benefit women’s products and development by learning what you truly want and need from cycling products and also for you to learn a little bit about the women behind the product.

In no posting on this thread have I pushed a product or our brand but wanted to participate in this dialogue with everybody knowing who I was and what I was trying to do. I apologize to any who have been offended by this or made uncomfortable, it was never my goal. On a side note, I have received many personal messages asking questions, looking for information and giving fantastic feedback. Thank you to all of you who sent those messages.

Thank you,
Rachael

[Geonz]

Being a commuter/touring/everything*but*mountain rider, Specialized isn't marketing to me, anyway ... if I were Rachel (or rather, if my psyche were absorbed into Rachel's being at this time) I'd lurk and read. *I* would probably yield to the temptation to post as an alias to participate as a cyclist ;)

Personally, I didn't mind the post or the link, but then thought about "what if all the industry sites did that?" and then thought "hmmm.... and maybe that would be a good thing?" and then thought "welp, they could have their own forum section." I would, of course, *love* the chance to spew my opinions at People from the Industry.

[Tuckervill]

Dang, we ran off a good one!

Karen

[Becky]

Dang, we ran off a good one!

Karen

Yeah, and that sucks, IMO.

[Susan Otcenas]

The intent was not to "run her off" and I'm very sorry that Rachael chose to interpret it that way. I believe my posts have been quite clear about the question we are asking.

Big picture - we'd still like to have the discussion about how to handle commercial interests on the forum, and continue to collect your feedback. As always, thanks so much for your input!

Susan

[Tuckervill]

It was totally Rachel's decision not to participate anymore. We just didn't make it easy on her to transition to a regular gal. I'm just acknowledging our part in it.

Karen

[spazzdog]

A suggestion to toss into the community popcorn popper...

Perhaps TE could create a section on the forums for bike makers, equipment makers, etc and invite them to post research/development/consumer interest type threads. It's not "advertising" in the strictest sense of the word and it would put the manufacturers right here in the playpen... and put TE even more out there as a way fabulous site.

Just an idear...

spazz

[SadieKate]

Spazz, that's a possibility. Not bad.

However, what makes me uncomfortable is that Specialized does not allow mail order of their accessories. It doesn't seem fair for Susan to pay for market research for companies whose products she cannot sell.

Sidi wants to ask us how to make their shoes better? Go for it. Specialized? No. Tit for tat.

I know that leaves a gray area of companies whose products she may choose not to sell, but I haven't solved that one yet.

Specialized tends to take a heavyhanded approach with their dealers also. Maybe Rachel can read this part of the thread and take it back to management, not that they'll listen.

[Fredwina]

Actaully, you can mail-order specialized stuff. You just have to do it direct (no dealers)

[Selkie]

Spazz, that's a possibility. Not bad.

However, what makes me uncomfortable is that Specialized does not allow mail order of their accessories. It doesn't seem fair for Susan to pay for market research for companies whose products she cannot sell.

Sidi wants to ask us how to make their shoes better? Go for it. Specialized? No. Tit for tat.

I know that leaves a gray area of companies whose products she may choose not to sell, but I haven't solved that one yet.

Specialized tends to take a heavyhanded approach with their dealers also. Maybe Rachel can read this part of the thread and take it back to management, not that they'll listen.

I agree w/you, SK.

I don't think Rachael was "run off" the forum. She chose to no longer post, which is probably appropriate. She can easily do market research by lurking.

[SadieKate]

Actaully, you can mail-order specialized stuff. You just have to do it direct (no dealers)That's my point. I can't buy Specialized items from Susan.

[spazzdog]

I get the "no mail order" thing, but we all discuss products all the time that aren't purchasable here at TE. And, when we can, TE is a "preferred" point-of-purchase.

I'm thinking more around TE being the "bigger" person here (not that I think it isn't). I personally tout TE as the "everything-cycling-for-women place to hang out" as I'm sure many others do.

If it was also a place where cycle-centric companies could come and NOT market (without paying for an ad or letting TE sell their stuff) but do research about what women want or need, I think it would bring nothing but more kudos and good press to TE... why because every dealer that really wants to know what we think would be wise to post a link to the TE forums on their FB or Twitter or MySpace.

spazz

[administrator]

A suggestion to toss into the community popcorn popper...

Perhaps TE could create a section on the forums for bike makers, equipment makers, etc and invite them to post research/development/consumer interest type threads. It's not "advertising" in the strictest sense of the word and it would put the manufacturers right here in the playpen... and put TE even more out there as a way fabulous site.

Just an idear...

spazz

Hi Spazz,

I like that idea -- in fact, Susan and I have been discussing doing something similar - a closed forum (only moderators can post to) that manufacturers can request to be listed in, showing their contact info, and what kind of feedback they're looking for from our community.

I'd ask for a "real live human" contact name at each company, with a direct line phone number and/or email/webform/survey where people could provide them with feedback and suggestions.

[SadieKate]

Sure, we discuss stuff all the time that we can't buy from TE, but this is a lot different than the manufacturer soliciting product advice for nothing.

It just doesn't sit well with me.

[Kris]

I like Spazz's idea a lot, probably because I was thinking the same thing just before I read it.
I don't mind sharing my opinion for free. I do think it would be better to have a designated place for that to happen. I would not like to see this forum become one of those places where every third post is an advertisement for something I don't want to buy.

[Trek420]

What's Going On on TE?
Right now Currently Active Users: 232 (62 members and 170 guests)

My LBS checks TE (c'mon now, Chris. Who are you? ;)) not in the weird men reading the board creepy kind of way. He is honestly interested in what do those women riders want!?! I'd nominate him as an honorary woman :) because he treats his clients well but I don't think he'd accept and his wife and kid would have issues. ;)

But 170 guests right now. Some of them are bike companies etc. :cool:

[Eden]

But 170 guests right now. Some of them are bike companies etc. :cool:

sad to say most of them are probably bots.......

[Trek420]

that's just weird. :confused:

[Eden]

that's just weird. :confused:

nah - there are tons of little automated programs out there "crawling the web" sometimes they are simply reading and archiving or reading and generating key words linked to the URL, like the way back machine or search engines.

Sometimes they are more sinister - like bots that post ads on forums that don't have one of those little type in the wavy numbers and letters to verify you are real human boxes.

The Wiki on internet bots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_bot