Elderly woman with a modest income needs soundproofing

[OnTerryOh]

How can I find low-cost soundproofing/construction?

I have a friend in her 80's -- call her Linda-- who lives in a high rise condominium and is suffering serious losses of sleep because her upstairs neighbor watches television and plays music from midnight to 4 a.m.

My friend can't function well during the day because she is sleep deprived. Her apartment is a studio, so it's impossible for her to go elsewhere in her unit to escape the noise.

She's tried all of the reasonable solutions such as speaking with the neighbor, building management and legal help. None of these has made a difference, and the noise keeps her awake most every night.

She bought custom-made earplugs, but these don't do much good.

She doesn't want to move because this has been her home for 30 years. It probably will be the last place she'll live in on her own.

I'm thinking the only way to help her is to have her apartment (or a part of it) soundproofed. As some of you know, sound travels too well in older highrise buildings -- noise easily bounces off the steel and concrete walls and floor.

Soundproofing, though, will probably be more expensive than Linda can afford. Do you know of an inexpensive way she might get this done?

Would Habitat for Humanity help in a case like this? Or would it make sense to put out a call for help on craigslist?

Any other ideas about how to get low-cost construction/soundproofing help?

Thanks in advance for all of your ideas. :)

[redrhodie]

When I was a teenager, I worked in the cafeteria of a hospital. All of the cardboard cartons that the eggs came in like these:https://superiorenterprise.com/store/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=ilvm_fly_easy_shopping_dark_green.tpl&product_id=830&category_id=48&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53&redirected=1&Itemid=53 were saved for one of the doctors, who was soundproofing his media room. He said it was the best soundproofing, and all he had to do was attach the cartons to the walls and ceiling. I'm not sure if he painted them later.

[Biciclista]

I work in the sound/noise business and eggcartons are really NOT the best insulation. No better than other kinds of cardboard.

What i would suggest is a combo of white noise (a fan works great for this) and good earplugs.
another suggestion would be to move her sleeping quarters to a quieter part of the house. even the kitchen if that's what it takes.

The fact that she is powerless to stop the noise is what is really keeping her awake, unfortunately. Also, as we get older, the quality of our sleep diminishes. So sad but true, I can see why she is so miserable.

I can sleep through fireworks with a fan going in my room. If it's cold out, just point the fan down the hall.

good luck to her.

[GulfCoastAmy]

I had a friend with a similar problem who went to bed wearing good quality noise cancelling headphones. It seemed to work for her, but I wonder how comfortable that would be? Anyway, just another option.

[Pedal Wench]

I work in the sound/noise business and eggcartons are really NOT the best insulation.

Me too - and my BF just wrote a book on acoustics. Without major construction, there isn't much to do physically. I would also suggest white noise (many companies sell 'soothers' that are easy to use) and a combination of noise blocking and noise cancelling headphones. I'm terrified of thunder, so I use earplugs and then Bose headphones over them, and two fans in the room creating white noise. Works very well. Blocking the sound and then masking it is the best solution.

[OakLeaf]

My experience with custom earplugs is that they don't block noise as well as OTC ones, because they don't really seal the ear canal; instead they rely on blocking the opening. (Also they're vulnerable to being eaten by your dog, but that's another story. :rolleyes:)

As a motorcyclist, I do understand that the pressure from OTC earplugs can become very painful with long term wear. But I've had very good luck with the Hearos Ultimate Softness (http://hearos.com/earplugs/products-02210.html) earplugs. They're widely available, but not necessarily in every drug store (I usually have better luck finding them at Walgreen's than other chains). I've been wearing this brand for about 5 years and have not become sensitized to the pressure as I did with a series of progressively softer brands before.

If the noise is truly loud (rather than your friend being hypersensitive, which isn't a criticism, just a trait that she might have, as I do), then she really ought to be able to get legal recourse. How far did she pursue it? Did she use a decibel meter to establish the noise level?

It can't hurt to put in a call to Habitat, her local senior center and/or any religious organization she may belong to. I read all the time in my local papers how scout troops and similar organizations pitch in to build wheelchair ramps, repair homes, etc., for elderly people. Obviously she'll need permission from her landlord for any improvements, but I wouldn't think they'd object as long as the work is to code and reasonably attractive.

[PamNY]

I agree that she should try white noise. A fan can work wonders. I also have a small, cheap air filter that makes enough noise to work well. White noise helps me cope with jackhammers, building demolition and sirens.

Pam

[indigoiis]

When I lived in Newport, we always had drunk stupid loud people walking up our street and through our back alley. I had such a tough time sleeping and it was mostly because I was laying there wondering what they were saying. (Are they yelling at that girl? Should I call the police? Are they just being drunk and stupid?)
So I got a white noise a/m f/m alarm clock radio - end of problem.

Egg cartons - can be a fire hazard as well. Sound absorbing furniture and carpeting is always a good idea, though. And drapes!

[redrhodie]

Okay, sorry for recommending the egg cartons. Obviously a bad idea.

[spazzdog]

Call the police... it's "disturbing the peace" even though it's indoors. Most towns/cities have noise ordinances that prohibit this sort of thing.

We have some rockers living 4 houses down... they used to play heavy metal so loud that it shook the windows in my house and all the neighbors. And they played it into the wee hours of the morning. After a month of this, we all started calling the police (non-emergency line).

After 2-3 visits from the police, they got their act together. They still play the music but, even on the weekend, by 10:30 pm the noise stops.

Any law officers and/or lawyers want to chime in here?

[OakLeaf]

Odds are a downstairs apartment isn't far enough away for noise ordinances to apply. Besides, we don't know how loud the music is. If it were loud enough for a noise ordinance to apply, more than likely someone else would've complained.

But if it really is objectively loud, rather than just too loud for your friend to sleep through, a decibel meter would go a long way in being able to get relief in housing court.

[Pedal Wench]

Okay, sorry for recommending the egg cartons. Obviously a bad idea.

Good for reducing sound reflections once inside a room (that's probably the intention of the guy who used them in his home theater) but not good for keeping sound out.

Asked my acoustics-expert BF - earplugs and white noise.

[SadieKate]

Odds are a downstairs apartment isn't far enough away for noise ordinances to apply.It would be in Davis, CA. It depends on the local ordinances.

a decibel meter would go a long way in being able to get relief in housing court.I agree.

Frequently, others don't complain for many reasons even though they are disturbed also. Some are just cowards and won't make the first move. Some have been taught not to "rock the boat." Some are just lazy. You can hear them now "someone should call the police." Someone is always someone else (as in, "someone will be along to pick up that trash I just threw out my car window.)

[cylegoddess]

A local Mall, may have some 'foamcore' batts( as in large pieces of foamcore - light and stiff) they used as signs. Maybe call you r local dept stores, and ask if they can give a note to their Visual merchandising that you would pay a modest fee for it.(ten bucks?)
Id get you heaps, but Im in Australia!

[papaver]

These sheets are here rather inexpensive.

http://tinyurl.com/l3jugk

[Biciclista]

the point is, this woman isn't going to spend hundreds of dollars on ceiling treatment or sound canceling devices. That's why PedalWench and I both suggested the earplugs + white noise device. She probably already owns a fan in her home, the only outlay would be the earplugs. I don't know about you guys, but I've found people in their 80's to generally be VERY tight fisted with money, for good reasons, they're living on teensy pensions and they can remember when you could feed a family with a dollar, etc, etc, etc. So fancy wall treatments are not going to happen. I hope she does call the police, although it sounds like she already has. OP let us know what happens, we're all curious now.

[Selkie]

I think people are just trying to be helpful.

I agree that the white sound machine is a life saver. I've used one at night for years. I even brought one to work when I had the unfortunate luck of having a cubicle that abutted the Office Drama Queen's (she played Sarah McLachlin's "I Believe" incessantly and the phone conversations, I didn't want to overhear...)

[papaver]

well, I think a lot of elderly people are very stubborn too. So if they got it in their minds to put something on their ceiling, they will do so. No matter what people advise them. ;)

That's why I thought of those sheets. They can help. :)

[Pedal Wench]

These sheets are here rather inexpensive.

http://tinyurl.com/l3jugk

Those, and the egg-cartons are both great at reducing echo/reverb/reflection of sound waves within a room - they don't reduce the transfer of sound into a room from an adjoining wall.

BF's latest book: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbook-of-Acoustics/dp/B002FVLAGA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249592578&sr=8-2

[papaver]

Those, and the egg-cartons are both great at reducing echo/reverb/reflection of sound waves within a room - they don't reduce the transfer of sound into a room from an adjoining wall.

BF's latest book: http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbook-of-Acoustics/dp/B002FVLAGA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249592578&sr=8-2

Thanks for the info!

[papaver]

Here newly build apartments have to achieve certain dB quota. A new building has to avoid contact noises to a maximum. Every apartment entity has to be separated. They also have to use a special kind of noise insulation. I don't really know how it works, but it does work.

But that's all a bit off topic. ;)

[kenyonchris]

Call the police... it's "disturbing the peace" even though it's indoors. Most towns/cities have noise ordinances that prohibit this sort of thing.

We have some rockers living 4 houses down... they used to play heavy metal so loud that it shook the windows in my house and all the neighbors. And they played it into the wee hours of the morning. After a month of this, we all started calling the police (non-emergency line).

After 2-3 visits from the police, they got their act together. They still play the music but, even on the weekend, by 10:30 pm the noise stops.

Any law officers and/or lawyers want to chime in here?

Well, it depends on your city ordinances. MOST, though set a decibel level that is equal to a rock concert level...far above most garage bands. However, if I get called out to a noise call, I ask the guys to turn it down. I am seldom questioned about it. I advise the caller that all I can do is ask them unless it is above a certain level. You would be amazed at how many times I go to apartments because someone is "walking loudly".

I work nights half the year. I live in a city where there is NOISE during the day, and I am a light sleeper. I use the white noise machine and LOVE it. I also have a fan, and I wear soft foam earplugs. It pretty much does the trick.

[OnTerryOh]

Thanks to all for your concern and helpful suggestions. It amazes me that TE members can provide useful information about so many subjects. I am grateful. :)

I saw my friend Linda yesterday and she offered some clarification about the noise level -- loud enough that she hears voices on the TV, but not blasting. If she did test the decibel level, I doubt it would help her case.

The suggestion to pursue help through her church, the Boy Scouts or some other community organization seems possible. She is an active member of a Unitarian church, and we might find some help there.

We also took a good look at her space yesterday and I asked her about areas that are quieter during the times her neighbor makes noise. She said the bathroom is most quiet, but since it is rather small, sleeping there would not work.

Even so, she has a walk-in closet adjoining the space between the bathroom and living room which is just large enough to fit a twin bed. It also has louvered wooden doors separating it from the living room area. Yesterday she was very open to the possibility of using this area on the nights when noise prevents her from sleeping in her usual space.

We also talked about putting insulating material on the louvered doors. She might pay a couple hundred dollars at most for the insulating material, but yes, she would rather take an even less expensive alternative.

She would try the egg cartons on the doors if it would work. But, do I understand correctly that this wouldn't really help? :confused:

Linda does own a white noise machine, but I don't know whether she uses it in combination with her earplugs. I'll ask her about that and suggest she use both simultaneously.

I'll also suggest the brand name earplugs one of you mentioned -- thanks. I'll tell her about your experience with custom-made plugs being less effective.

As it happens, yesterday Linda asked me to write a letter to the owner of the apartment where the renters are making noise. Apparently she'd spoken to building management and the renters before about this problem, but not to the unit owner.

(To give you some perspective, her apartment is in one of two buildings -- I'm guessing 20 stories high -- with hundreds of residents, some who own and others who rent. Linda owns her apartment.)

Anyway, I wrote the letter asking the unit owner to get the tenants to quiet down, sticking to the facts and keeping the tone polite and businesslike. We'll see if it helps.

Again, thanks to all for your ideas. I also appreciate your links to the earplugs and soundproofing materials. :) :)

[OnTerryOh]

Looking at the replies again, I understand that heavy fabrics and soundproofing sheets will work better than egg cartons.


Those, and the egg-cartons are both great at reducing echo/reverb/reflection of sound waves within a room - they don't reduce the transfer of sound into a room from an adjoining wall.

Thanks, Pedal Wrench. :)

I can easily replace Linda's louvered closet doors with wooden ones, and/or drape the doors in heavy foam fabrics or soundproofing sheets.

[Pedal Wench]

Looking at the replies again, I understand that heavy fabrics and soundproofing sheets will work better than egg cartons.



Thanks, Pedal Wrench. :)

I can easily replace Linda's louvered closet doors with wooden ones, and/or drape the doors in heavy foam fabrics or soundproofing sheets.

Unless you create a completely sealed, airtight door, it's not going to help significantly. Please, please, please, re-read our comments - the only thing that will help are earplugs designed to block out the frequencies that bother her and then white noise to mask it. Make sure that noise is loud too.

[OnTerryOh]

Unless you create a completely sealed, airtight door, it's not going to help significantly. Please, please, please, re-read our comments - the only thing that will help are earplugs designed to block out the frequencies that bother her and then white noise to mask it. Make sure that noise is loud too.

Got it. Thanks again.

[papaver]

Unless you create a completely sealed, airtight door, it's not going to help significantly. Please, please, please, re-read our comments - the only thing that will help are earplugs designed to block out the frequencies that bother her and then white noise to mask it. Make sure that noise is loud too.

And sleeping in a less noisy room if possible. :cool:

[withm]

Usually condo buildings have rules about quiet hours - say maybe 11pm to 7am. So a carefully worded letter to the condo assn would be in order.

We once had a problem like this where we ended up gluing acoustical ceiling tiles right on to the wall adjoining the unit next to ours. Wasn't so attractive but it did seem to muffle the noise considerablly. Putting it on the ceiling "where it belongs" might not be so ugly. Lowes has 2x4' panels at about $41. for 80sf. How big is your room? You'd need the adhesive too and a trowel but that should not be so expensive.

[Zen]

Again, thanks to all for your ideas.

Thank you for being so helpful and concerned about your neighbor. You're a good friend to have.

[Loraura]

White noise makers marketted to parents of infants work rather well for drowning out other noises.

I use this one, and it absolutely works for me. My teenage son can be in the next room with the TV on, and I hear absolutely none of it. My husband can come home and I don't hear the garage door opener or the dog barking.

This is the one I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Marpac-SleepMate-980A-Electro-Mechanical-Conditioner/dp/B000KUHFGM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1249937472&sr=8-2

[tulip]

If Linda sleeps in the walk-in closet and the louvered doors are draped or covered, it is likely to get very stuffy in there, and perhaps even dangerous if it's sealed too tightly.

But the other ideas sound reasonable, especially the writing to the condo association!

[owlice]

You might want to put out a WANTED notice in your local Freecycle for either a white noise machine, acoustic tiles, or both before you spend money on these items; it's kind of amazing what people have to get rid of!