Tales from the LBS.... When the day starts like this you KNOW your in trouble..

[Running Mommy]

******WARNING THIS IS A LONG RANT! MAKE A SANDWHICH, GRAB SOME SNACKS. CONSIDER READING THIS POST LIKE READING WAR AND PEACE**********


Sometimes I wish I had a web cam in the shop so you ladies (and mr silver) could see the things an LBS go through on a daily basis. I'm sure we aren't special, and it's prolly the same with all shops. Certainly it may explain why sometime when you walk into your lbs the folks behind the counter may seem a bit beaten down.
This is how my day started yesterday.
I roll into the shop at 9:45 am and realize that running hubby has the keys to the shop, as I had to give mine to the fire dept dude the other day. RH is on his way back from a shop ride 60 miles away. I make an SOS call to my friend michelle who works with us. She has a key, but since she knows I get in early enough, she usually rolls in right at 10.
Of course there are people waiting for us at the door. (yes this is a good problem, but why on the one day that you are running late. Any other day and no one would be there).
Michelle rolls in right near ten. I explain to the folks that I just need to open the register and un-cable the bikes. (extra security measure we do every night). They are nice and understanding. Michelle and I are running loopy, and then running hubby pulls up. I hate being harried like that, so maybe I was still in a bit of a fluff. But we got everything and everyone taken care of and were settling in.
And then Mr. caveman walks in the door wheeling a new steed, fresh off the wal mart sales floor. I step forward to greet him and see what we can assist him with. (you will see soon why I refer to him as a caveman. And NO this is not standard practice with our customers. We love our customers! 99.9% of the time)
Caveman: Yeah I called earlier. I need to get this tuned up.
Me: Ok. well looks like she is brand new?
CM: Yes. I just bought it at wal mart but it doesnt shift right and I want to make sure that it's put together right.
Me: (impressed that even if he bought it at wallys he at least wants to make sure it's safe) Ok. No problem. We will go through the shifting, the brakes, make sure the stem is tight, as well as the bottom bracket/cranks (gesturing with my hands all of the things we will do) And we will also true the wheels, as it's rare that a new bike comes out of the box with wheels that are true.

*** this is when I notice the wheels... Some nimnut at schwinn decided that it would look "cool" to make a 26" wheel with an aero road wheel type dish to it. And of course it's a shraeder wheel, but it needs long stem tubes. This is something that I have yet to be able to find through any of my distributors.***

me: Hmm. I see that this bike has wheels that will require an extended valve stem (I gesture towards the valve stem and point out the wheel dish) . I want to warn you that when you eventually need to change the tubes on this bike you most likely won't be able to find tubes for it. I don't know why Schwinn did this, and I see it all the time. It's very frustrating but I have tried to find tubes to fit these bikes with the extended valves but they just don't seem to exist. Or at least I can't find them.

*** At this point our service manager is listening in and suggests that he had heard that you could get valve extenders from autozone. He's not sure if they are the right diameter, but he had heard that somewhere. ***

caveman: Ok, then answer this question for me. Can you just change the tubes. Why don't you put some of those slime tubes in...

me: (thinking ok, maybe he didn't understand me??) Well that is the problem sir. We cannot get tubes with an extended valve stem. (thinking HOW can I explain myself better). So we can't do it. See that road bike right there (gesture to a tri bike with an aerowheel) that bike requires long stem tubes, and they make them for those type of bikes. But those are a different valve, and they are a different size. They just don't seem to make them for your size wheel. But what we can do since your tubes are new is to add slime to them.

*** according to michelle, by the look on his face somewhere in my attempt to get CM to understand me he just tuned out and gave me this "stupid girl you don't know what your talking about" look. ****
CM: (with a scoul on his face). NO. I asked you to answer my QUESTION. And you are not answering my QUESTION. (yes he sounded annoyed and almost had a mocking tone).

This is when our service manager (a man btw) steps in because he likely senses my head is ready to explode...

mgr: Sir what Denise is trying to tell you is that we cannot change your tubes because they do not make replacement tubes with the long valve- or at least none of our ten distributors have them. So we can add slime to these tubes, and you could go to autozone and look into the schraeder valve extenders, but we don't have tubes for this type wheel.
He then reaches back and grabs a tube to show the guy how only a nub would be poking through the rim and we wouldn't be able to air it up.

CM: (in a nice calm "man to man" tone) Oh, ok. Well thanks for answering my question (shoots me a look). Ok, so I will go look for those extenders. In the meantime just put a new slime tube in anyway.

mgr: But I won't be able to pump up the tires, and we need to be able to test ride your bike to make sure the shifting is right.

CM: Ok. Well you said you can add slime to these so just do that.

Mr caveman then turns to the manager and thanks HIM for his help, give's michelle his info and waltzes out without so much as a glance in my direction.

My manager looks at me with a sly grin, wanting to laugh but knowing I write his paycheck. I look at him and Michelle and proclaim "THAT is the prime example of a man who thinks women don't know what the hell they are talking about. And most certainly wouldn't take mechanical advice from a woman".
He shrugged and replied "Yeah, I told him the same thing you did. I was even careful to explain it EXACTLY as you did. Because you explained it just fine, and it made perfect sense. But I wanted to see if he either really was not understanding us, or was just a caveman who thinks women are clueless".

Why is it that men of a certain age (I'm trying not to generalize here, but this has happened to me more than once) have such backward thinking?
I will be the first one to admit that I really don't know all that much about the workings in the shop. But you can't be in the business and not pick up at least SOME knowledge! I once had a guy ask me for a chain and when I asked him what speed the bike was he told me "it doesn't matter, a chain is a chain"...:o
I had the same thing with a rear derailluer once. The guy yelled at me to JUST give him one! It didn't matter what kind it was. When I rang it up I explained our return policy. He came back the next day with it in pieces and tried to tell running hubby that I sold it to him and didn't know what I was talking about. I of course had explained it to everyone in the shop in case it came back. He said "No she didn't sir. I was in the back. I heard the whole thing. You insisted that this would work and it didn't matter. I'm sorry but this is broken now, and I'm not going to take it back".

And yes, they all appeared to have come from roughly the same generation. :confused:

Anyway, sorry for my rant. Sometimes it's just more than I can take, so I need my TE friends shoulders!

Oh- and my next customer... Two older ladies that didn't know what they wanted, but they didn't want anything I had to offer because it was too fancy with those gears and cords (brake cables) and things. But the coaster brake cruisers were too "big and heavy looking" And when showing them a bike one asked "is this aluminum or metal"..... ;)

and after that. A regular that buys more from ebay than from us. He brought in some xtr front D that he thought he "scored" until running hubby explained to him the clamp size was too small, as it was a very old xtr and wouldn't work on his bike. We had one that would work in stock, but he said "no thats ok. I'll go home and see what I can find online. Now what size do I need again?"

and next up... a guy buying a comfort bike who is 6' and really needed the large. But it was black and the medium is red. And he wanted the red one. So he wanted to know what we could do to make it work (now where did I put that frame stretcher?)

And later that day...
A guy who wanted us to price out upgrading his road bike. He wanted prices on ultegra and DA, and "the better sram groups".
We know this one well... So we gave him general prices for the groupsets.
He wanted us to not only price out every componet in the group individually but to also write down the model numbers....
Yeah, so he can go home and find it all online.
We explained to him that the model numbers weren't needed because we would make sure that we ordered the correct ones for him when he decided which gruppo he wanted to go with.

And last but not least...

It's a taco, nooooo it's a wheel off a wal mart bike!

A guy with a wheel so bad it actually really did resemble a taco. He claimed that he just took the bike off a curb ( I was JRA). He didn't understand why we couldn't fix it. It was also a disc wheel with a cassette, so not a cheap replacement. He left in a huff and said "I bet that lawnmower shop down the road can fix it"... (evergreen bike and lawn. Yes, that is our closest competition)

So yeah, there you go. That was my saturday. I really do LOVE what I do! And when I can get someone on a bike I'm tickled beyond belief. Esp the riders new to the sport. I love to see their excitement.
I have so many great customers that I cherish because they are so special to me. I consider so many of them friends.
But sometimes there are just those days.... The days when you want to go home and have a stiff drink. Yesterday was THAT kind of a day!
We ALL have them! Even those of us with our "dream" jobs.


wheww. You MADE it!! Iron reader that you are! You deserve a medal! :D

[lph]

Hilarious stories! At least they are good for entertaining us ;)

I feel like going to my lbs and being a model customer. :D

[DebW]

Oh- and my next customer... Two older ladies that didn't know what they wanted, but they didn't want anything I had to offer because it was too fancy with those gears and cords (brake cables) and things. But the coaster brake cruisers were too "big and heavy looking" And when showing them a bike one asked "is this aluminum or metal"..... ;)

OK, this one reminds me of when I was in high school and working in a bike shop. One of my high school gym teachers came in to buy a bike, and I was showing her some 10-speeds. At one point I told her "all the parts on this bike are metric" and she said "what's metric?" :rolleyes:

This spring we had a woman come into the shop with her new race wheels and asked us to true them. The manager noticed that the spokes were way loose and called her to tell her. Apparently she'd bought then off ebay, ie. there's somebody building and selling wheels on ebay who has no idea what correct spoke tension is. Scary...

And every once in awhile we get the customer who, when informed that the price of repairing their Walmart bike will be >$50, says "But I only paid $50 for the bike" Well, if you pay $50 for a bike and want to ride it, plan to spend another $100 in repairs. One woman last year was quite adamant that this Walmart bike was supposed to work perfectly, but of course the wheels weren't true and the brakes weren't adjusted so the wheels wouldn't even turn. Finally the manager told her to take it back to Walmart. Then she admitted she'd bought it last fall and left it sitting in her basement all winter having never been ridden, so she couldn't take it back.

RM, sorry you got slammed by all the worst customers in one day.

[crazycanuck]

Denise, have you been to www.notalwaysright.com ??? I really do feel sorry for anyone in retail. CUstomers :rolleyes:

I promise you I would never treat the folks at our fave shops that way! I may not be the most technically minded when it comes to bike components :o but I do my best....


Thank you though for giving it your best :)

[lph]

My own favourite story of BSOs (Bike Shaped Objects aka Walmart bikes), which I've told here before, bear with me ;-), is of our neighbour who came by with a childs bike that "didn't work", and asked if I could possibly take a look. Both wheels were flat, of course, but the humdinger was that the gear cables and housing hadn't been cut to fit, were of course way too long so had been wrapped around the frame, making it impossible to use the gears...

[OakLeaf]

Sorry you had to go through that D. but thanks for keeping your sense of humor. ;)

Here's hoping that was your share of 'em for a while. (Forever is too much to hope for I know. :rolleyes:)

[ridebikeme]

Ohhh typical tales from the shop... I've always said that it would be fun to write a book with stories like this. It would be fun to read when I'm older and need a good laugh.:rolleyes: At any rate, I try to remind myself that if I wasn't lucky enough to STILL be in business, then I would miss out on all these stories. :D

If Autozone has the valve extenders that you might need on the wallyworld bikes, then I would have a few in stock. Not only does it appear to the customer that you have everything they need, but also would be helpful in explaining the whole situation. The fewer stops that a customer has to make, the more likely they are to return to your shop, and in the end it puts more $ in the cash register.

[Ana]

Regarding your comment about generational differences: I have noticed a prominent trend in people around my age (early 20's) and younger which includes a few attitudes: entitlement, online bargain hunting and economical misunderstanding. I am not attributing these characteristics to all people in that age group but enough to notice a trend.

Most of the entitlement attitude I experience comes from upper middle class or upper class families who have been given almost anything they want by their baby boomer parents. I am not against parents providing things for their children. On the contrary, I believe it is necessary for parents to provide certain things to children. However, if those things are simply given to them without any requirements to restrictions (i.e. earning it), then those things do not hold any positive personal reflection to the child. The outcome can be that they lack ambition and determination because they believe they deserve whatever it is they want and that they should not have to work for it.

Online bargain hunting is rather customary for people my age. The problem arises when they use local shops, like yours, to find a product they would like to find online more inexpensively. Which is a segway into the economical misunderstanding, combined with their egocentric entitlement. To the best of my ability, I can only imagine they believe that they deserve things they want at the lowest possible price which is somewhat counter intuitive because they are devaluing their own desires, in a way, by refusing to pay a penny more than they can find it for. What they fail to understand is that they are, especially in the case of bicycles, purchasing a bicycle for the quality of service and knowledge you have to offer (i.e. you and your staff), and that it is to their benefit to put money back into their local economy. If the lawnmower place is your biggest competition, I highly suspect that if people in or near your town purchase these eBay bikes, they will have to come into your shop to get them tuned, repaired, upgraded, etc.

I am very sorry to hear about your ordeal. Maybe it was just one of those tough days....we all have them :p They can be quite trying... I never expect the "cavemen" type people to disappear....I encounter them much more frequently than I care to. :(

I realize the value of having a LBS and support them when I can :)

[papaver]

LBS's here even refuse to work on 'bikes' that are bought in Wall Mart type of stores. People buy junk and expect the people at the LBS's to turn them into state of the art bikes... for no money at all. And when they can't they are perceived as being the morons. http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a014.gif

[Duck on Wheels]

Great stories! Sad and frustrating, but still very funny. :rolleyes:
Maybe you could write a book and market them ... all anonymized, of course, to protect the innocent (double entendre intended: the clueless customers and the blameless LBS).

[arielmoon]

Sounds like you could use a virtual hug ((((Denise))))

[Biciclista]

what is JRA?
I am sorry that the caveman made you feel like you had to explain that you understood some "man knowledge" of course you do. And i'm glad he left your store with those same sorry tubes in his bike.
I hope you have a raft of better days to make up for that one!

[beccaB]

The ONLY bike stuff I would ever buy online would be stuff to put on ME, with the exception of helmets and shoes. Except of course I haven't found a local bike shop with near the selection of shoes for women that they have for men.

[colby]

Wow. What a day!!!

I have experienced The Caveman in my line of work (IT and software), too, and I also get it because of my age. I told my boss last week in a fit of frustration that "there's a certain age where people just assume you know what you're doing rather than making you prove it... I'm not there yet." Unfortunately with gender, you NEVER get there, and some guys are really big jerks.

Way to hang in there!!!!!!!

[Irulan]

JRA = Just Riding Along

sounds like chapter two of this class CL rant,
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/1192150038.html


Whoo-hoo Seattle, the sun is out! Let's discuss a few things before you fumble with swapping the unused ski rack for the unused bike rack on the Subaru.

So yes, you've noticed the sun is out, and hey!- maybe it would be cool to to some bike riding. Let's keep in mind that the sun came out of all 600,000 of us, so for the most part, you're not the only one who noticed. Please remember that when you walk into my shop on a bright, sunny Saturday morning. It will save you from looking like a complete twat that huffs "Why are there so many people here?"

Are we all on the same page now about it being sunny outside? Have we all figured out that we're not the only clever people that feel sunny days are good for bike riding? Great. I want to kiss all of you on your forehead for sharing this moment with me. Put your vitamin D starved fingers in mine, and we'll move on together to some pointers that will make life easier.

SOME POINTERS FOR THE PHONE:

- I don't know what size of bike you need. The only thing that I can tell over the phone is that you sound fat. I don't care how tall you are. I don't care how long your inseam is. Don't complain to me that you don't want to come ALL THE WAY down to the bike shop to get fitted for a bike. I have two hundred bikes in my inventory. I will find one that fits you. Whether you come from the north or the south, my shop is downhill. Pretend you're going to smell a fart, ball up, and roll your fat *** down here.

- Don't get high and call me. Write it down, call me later. When I have four phone lines ringing, and a herdlet
of people waiting for help, I can't deal with you sitting there "uuuuhhh"-ing and "uuummm"-ing while your brain tries to put together some cheeto-xbox-fixie conundrum. We didn't get disconnected, I left you on hold to figure your **** out.

-I really do need to see your bike to know what is wrong with it. You've already figured out that when you car makes a noise, the mechanic needs to see it. When your TV goes blank, a technician needs to see it. I can tell you, if there is one thing I've learned from you ****ing squirrels, it's that "doesn't shift right" means your bike could need a slight cable adjustment, or you might just need to stop backing into it with the Subaru. Bring it in, I'll let you know for sure.

- No, I don't know how much a good bike costs. For some, spending $500 dollars is a kingly sum. For others, $500 won't buy you one good wheel. You really need to have an idea of what you want, because every one of you raccoons "doesn't want to spend too much".

FOR YOU INVENTIVE TYPES AND DO-IT-YOURSELFERS:

- Just because you think is should exist, doesn't mean that it does. I know that to you, a 14 inch quill stem makes perfect sense, but what makes more sense is buying a bike that fits you, not trying to make your mountain bike that was too small for you to begin with into a comfort bike.

- If some twat on some message board somewhere says that you can use the lockring from your bottom bracket as a lockring for a fixie conversion doesn't mean that A: you can, or B: you should. Please listen to me on this stuff, I really do have your best interests at heart.

- I love that you have the enthusiasm to build yourself a recumbent in the off season. That does not mean however, that I share your enthusiasm; ergo I won't do the "final tweaks" for you. You figure out why that Sram shifter and that Shimano rear derailleur don't work together. While we're at it, you recumbent people scare me a little. Don't bring that lumbering ****ing thing anywhere near me.

A DEDICATION TO ALL THE HIPSTER DUCHEBAGS:

-If you shitheads had any money, you wouldn't NEED a vintage Poo-zhow to get laid. Go have an ironic mustache growing contest in front of American Apparel, so that I can continue selling $300 bikes to fatties, which is what keeps the lights on.

- Being made in the 80's may make something cool, but that doesn't automatically make something good. The reason that no one has ridden that "vintage" Murray is because it's ****. It was **** in the 80's, a trend it carried proudly through the 90's, and rallied with into the '00's. What I mean to say is, no, I can't make it work better. It's still ****, even with more air in the tires.

SO YOU'RE GONNA BUY A BIKE:

Good for you! Biking is awesome. It's easy, it's fun, it's good for you. I want you to bike, I really do. To that end, I am here to help you.

-Your co-worker that's "really into biking" knows **** all. Stop asking for his advice. He could care less about you having the right bike. He wants to validate his bike purchase(s) through you. He also wants to sleep with you, and wear matching bike shorts with you.

- You're not a triathlete. You're not. If you were, you wouldn't be here, and we both know it.

- You're not a racer. If you were, I'd know you already, and you wouldn't be here, and we both know it.

- So you want a bike that you can ride to work, goes really fast, is good for that triathlon you're doing this summer (snicker), is good on trails and mud, and costs less than $300. Yeah. Listen, I want a car that can go 200 miles an hour, tow a boat, has room for five adults, is easy to parallel park but can carry plywood, gets 60mpg, and only costs $3,000. I also want a unicorn to blow me. What are we even talking about here? Oh yeah. Listen, bikes can be fast, light, cheap and comfortable. Pick two, and we're all good.

ABOUT YOUR KIDS:

Your kids are amazing. Sure are. No one else has kids as smart, able, funny or as good looking as you. Nope. Never see THAT around here.

- I have no idea how long you kid will be able to use this bike. As it seems to me, your precious is a little retarded, and can't even use the damn thing now. More likely, your budding genius is going to leave the bike in the driveway where you will Subaru the bike to death LONG before the nose picker outgrows the bike.

- Stop being so jumpy. I am not a molester. You people REALLY watch too much TV. When I hold the back of the bike while your kid is on it, it's not because I get a thrill from *almost* having my hand on kid butt, it's because kids are unpredictable, and generally take off whenever possible, usually not in the direction you think they might go. Listen, if I were going to do anything bad to your kids, I'd feed them to sharks, because sharks are ****ING AWESOME.


I hope this helps, and have fun this summer riding your kick-*** bike!

[msincredible]

Sometimes you need the patience of a saint to work in customer service!

[kenyonchris]

Yeah. Welcome to my world. I deal with Cavemen ALL THE TIME. Sometimes, for a bit of fun, they are drunk! And on a really good day (literally), I get to sit out in the hot sun with my knees on the back of some idiot's head and wait for the ambulance to get there to sedate this guy, because he is amped up on Meth and thinks that the bush people are coming to get him....while he whines at ME that the wrist, that I admittedly have in a wristlock, hurts. "Stop fighting sir, and I will ease up. You see how this works? But when you try to tackle me, you wind up here."

I cannot STAND people (men or women) who treat others who are there to serve them (as the bike shop people or the cops in the city) like peons. While a lot of times it is CAVEMEN that look at me like I am stupid, it is the WOMEN who can be stubbornly, stubbornly, obnoxiously pigheaded. I pulled a woman over for not wearing her seatbelt (she pulled it on as I passed her, I was right at her window and saw her do it)...I turned around, tucked in behind her, and when the light turned green lit her up. She insisted that because she had it on NOW, she was not in the wrong....and she paid my taxes, and she wished I would go find some real criminals, and she had never had a ticket before, and....AND she gave me the same high headed holier than thou manner that I can't stand. I not only wrote her for the seatbelt, I wrote her for not signaling her left hand turn, and, in a moment of pure glee, for not changing her address on her license within 30 days.
I am not really a ticket writer. Everyone thinks that is what we do, or have to do, or whatever. I guess some cities are like that. We have 2 or 3 traffic only officers that work the highway but that is different. I have LOTS of discretion, and I cut almost everyone a break if they are polite, responsive, accountable, and safe. She made a big show of the "I'll see you in court!" thing... which is fine...she will lose. Everything was recorded. I NEVER miss court.

You are different to some extent...I understand that just handing his Wal-Mart bike back to him and telling him to take a long walk off a short pier is not good for business, and you have to try to be tolerant of those who are ignorant, want something for nothing, and are rude to boot.

At least I get to arrest em.

[bmccasland]

KenyonChris - your stories remind me of when I worked for Parks, and our LE Rangers said one of the best parts was that eviction WAS an option. That and the customer (park visitor) wasn't always right.


RM - Not that this will help you much, but back when we were going stir crazy while being evacuated from New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina, we decided that we needed bicycles. I insisted to my friends that since there was a good bike shop in the local town, we needed to skip the Wally World "specials" and go see what the LBS had in stock. We made them happy - three people that wanted three cruisers, nothing really special, but we wanted good bikes.

So I have a nice Breezer. And when my brand new bike got scratched in the truck ride back to N.O. and my LBS that would have carried Joe Breezer's bikes was still under water - I called the number on the web page, and got Joe! They sent me a little bottle of touch up paint to perfectly match my bike's paint job. I wouldn't have gotten this kind of service from WW.

Hang in there. Maybe caveman dunderhead will have an accident out there in the desert and the vultures will find him first. Or maybe he should take up rock climbing?

[SadieKate]

me: Hmm. I see that this bike has wheels that will require an extended valve stem (I gesture towards the valve stem and point out the wheel dish) . I want to warn you that when you eventually need to change the tubes on this bike you most likely won't be able to find tubes for it. I don't know why Schwinn did this, and I see it all the time. It's very frustrating but I have tried to find tubes to fit these bikes with the extended valves but they just don't seem to exist. Or at least I can't find them.

Pause . . . .

me: But we can sell you some rim adapters so you can use a Presta stem with your Schraeder wheels.

http://wheelsmfg.com/content/view/513/38/

[witeowl]

...our LE Rangers said one of the best parts was that eviction WAS an option.

And this is reason #1 why public schools appear to perform poorly when compared to private and charter schools.

Wow, where did that threadjack come from?

Sorry, carry on.

[shootingstar]

Pause . . . .

me: But we can sell you some rim adapters so you can use a Presta stem with your Schraeder wheels.

http://wheelsmfg.com/content/view/513/38/

Even for Caveman this might be too much info. :p He may not admit knowing what is diff. between Presta & Schraeder stems. Cavemen sometimes need to be SHOWN, in action with concrete physical examples. They are ACTION oriented.

Why? So one can redirect their inate embarrassment, manifesting as anger/belligerence to something that requires him to pay attention and NOT look at the woman who is dispensing advice to his face...who clearly knows what she is talking about/is expert but words are not penetrating Cave man.

But do remember not all cave men fall into particular generation.

Thx, for some of these stories, Runningmommy, kenyonchris..

I deflected some (not always) cavemen's anger by not yammering away about research, but showing them the coveted book/magazine article, giving them something or demonstrating on the database itself. (I always wondered how in the hell people remember some of those complicated database features if they weren't making notes while watching. Guess they sneaked off and wasted another 1-2 hrs. of work time to recall their memory of what they learned from me.)
____________________________________________________________

It will be interesting when the next generation after boomers...age and how they cope on knowledge, learning and listening to instructions/expertise from people 2-3 decades younger than themselves.

[Running Mommy]

Michelle got this one...

M: Good morning sir. How may we help you?

Customer: I need a pole and a seat...

M: A pole? for???

Customer: my beach cruiser.

M: Ohhhh. do you mean a seatpost? Ok, what size do you need? There are a bunch of different sizes, and you really have to know the exact size.

Customer: oh. hmm. I didn't even think about that. I will have to come back

M: Ok. If you can bring the old post in, or the bike we can use the calipers to measure it. They vary by mm's, so it's important we get the right size.

Customer: .... ok. I'll be back. Thanks for your help.

He was a nice guy actually. But when he said "I need a pole" I thought to myself "oh no here we go".... :p

Oh and Irulan- that was some funny stuff.

[SadieKate]

Even for Caveman this might be too much info. :p He may not admit knowing what is diff. between Presta & Schraeder stems. Cavemen sometimes need to be SHOWN, in action with concrete physical examples. They are ACTION oriented.Sooo? I wasn't commenting on any caveman psychology; I was just providing some bike parts info that would have shortened up the conversation immediately.

[Tri Girl]

Wow- what a day! I'm sorry it happened, but on the selfish side- I laughed A LOT while reading your stories. Good thing I took a nap beforehand so I was rested and ready. :p Thanks for sharing. You made my day. I'll be extra nice next time I'm in the shop. :)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I have always found it best when dealing with either children or cave men (or cave women), to just tell them initial answers in terms of the simplest statement possible. Such as "Those won't fit on there."....."We are not having ice cream now."....."I need to know the size first."...."This one is better for you."....etc.
I'm not saying you did this in this instance, but Caveman's impatience reminds me of when I see mothers do this with their kids- The kid asks if they can go to Johnny's house after school. The mother says "I don't know if that's a good idea since your sister has a dentist appointment at 5 and Daddy is driving the car with the extra seat today and I need to pick up my friend on the way, so not everyone will fit in my red car. Maybe we can ask Johnny's mother if you can go there tomorrow instead." Meanwhile, by the time she said "I don't know if that's a good idea....", the kid had already sized up the answer as "No." and ran off to another room . :D

If you start by giving them a clear detailed explanation, many children and cavemen types' eyes quickly glaze over and they look for someone who can give them a simpler answer.
People who are capable of grasping the finer points or terminology will ask you to elaborate on the details of why or how, after your initial simple answer.
Perhaps a little of this came into play with CaveMan?
You might have lost him already at bottom bracket, truing the wheels, and extended valve stems. Just an additional thought, might not apply here. :o

[Triskeliongirl]

I think you got some good suggestions. Perhaps it is best if you choose one of the following:

1. Refuse to work on wally world bikes.
2. Stock unusual parts/solutions that wally world bikes frequently require.

I can see either choice, but if you choose to work on them the suggestions to be prepared, and keep it simple, are good ones. Just cuz *we* all like to talk about bike stuff with a lot of detail doesn't mean all your customers do.

As for whether to have these folks as customers, only you can decide that. But, from a business perspective I can give an example of where my hairdresser needed a new bike, and since I cycle he asked me to recommend a shop. The shop I recommended doesn't work on wally world bikes, which his bike at the time was, and he didn't want to do business with them because they were rude to him when he attempted to get his bike serviced. So, he and his partner both bought nice new bikes from the LBS that does work on wally world bikes, especially when they politely explained to him how much it would cost to service his old bike vs buying a new better one, and why the new ones were better, etc.

[Irulan]

I think you got some good suggestions. Perhaps it is best if you choose one of the following:

1. Refuse to work on wally world bikes.
2. Stock unusual parts/solutions that wally world bikes frequently require.

I can see either choice, but if you choose to work on them the suggestions to be prepared, and keep it simple, are good ones. Just cuz *we* all like to talk about bike stuff with a lot of detail doesn't mean all your customers do.

As for whether to have these folks as customers, only you can decide that. But, from a business perspective I can give an example of where my hairdresser needed a new bike, and since I cycle he asked me to recommend a shop. The shop I recommended doesn't work on wally world bikes, which his bike at the time was, and he didn't want to do business with them because they were rude to him when he attempted to get his bike serviced. So, he and his partner both bought nice new bikes from the LBS that does work on wally world bikes, especially when they politely explained to him how much it would cost to service his old bike vs buying a new better one, and why the new ones were better, etc.


As much of a pain as BSO ( bicycle shaped objects, box store bikes) are, I think that refusing to work on them is really shooting oneself in the foot. You just piss off a lot of future, potential customers, and lose the chance to educate them and/or convert them into real customers who will buy real bikes in the future. They may even consider you rude, and bad mouth you in the community.

I run into similar scenarios all the time with my business - I repair outdoor equipment, and box store tents are the bane of my existence. I would LOVE to just tell people "I don't work on cheap pieces of crap" but the real world doesn't work that way. I do the work at a rate that two repairs could have bought a second tent, and never miss the chance to explain the difference between a real tent and a cheap tent.

[Crankin]

I agree with Lisa. Today I went to a bike shop (I don't go to one very often, since DH does all mechanics in our house) to buy gloves. I did not go to the shop where I bought my bike, but to another one that is just as close and my son used to work there. As I was perusing the gloves, I heard a young sales guy showing a man a bike. The man had a paper with what looked like a print out from the web. The sales guy said, "This bike has Tiagra components. You might want to think about that." This got no response from the customer, so the sales guy says, "Tiagra components don't have a good reputation and can break (or something like that). I doubt the customer knew what a component was. Then, not sure what the customer looked at or said, since my back was turned, but i hear the sales guy say, "Oh, you'd have colors just like Astana..." This was met by silence. Sales guy says, "You know, Astana, the team that won the TdF..."
More silence. The customer left.

[TrekJeni]

Sorry Running Mommy - I'll buy you a beer at Interbike, how's that? :D

Geoff's got a HUGE metal sign up on the outside of the shop that reads something like this: Attention all Department Store Bicycle Owners, we require a 50% deposit on all work.
He was sick and tired of all the walmart stuff accumulating in the warehouse when people refused to pick it up even though they had been given an itemized estimate BEFORE they were allowed to drop it off.

Geoff also deals with CM mentality in the fact that as he is the general manager at age 24, and has been coming to work with his dad (family owned shop) since he was in diapers and wrenching on bikes since he was eight, he has a hard time getting respect from some of the older generation. His dad has to come out and finish the sale....

A few months ago they had a engineer (it seems to always be the engineers here in Cincinnati that are the problem) they thought he could fix everything and because his bike was mis-shifting, took the cassette off and looked at it under a microscope. He determined that the cassette needed to be replaced. All it needed was a barrel adjustment!

LBS's should write a book!

Jeni

[Triskeliongirl]

I think the problem with refusing to work on department store bikes is the customers never get educated. For example, my hairdresser just thought their refusal to service his bike was 'snotty' and 'elitist'. I tried to explain to him that it was not cost ineffecient to repair them, so the shop just didn't want to deal with it, plus there were safety/liability concerns if the bikes failed once they left the shop. But, I still think that if instead of saying no, you explain very clearly to the customer what it would cost to repair, and why it still might not perform as expected, you end up with more new customers than by being rude or posting a sign on the door 'no department store bikes.'

But there is something about the tone of this thread I don't like that does smack of elitism. So what if the customer doesn't know its called a seatpost, or can't understand the technical problem with his wheels? That doesn't make him a caveman. It just makes him a customer who happens to not be as knowledgable about bikes as we all are.

I really don't think the way the OP was treated was about sexism. I think she was just talking to him at a level he couldn't understand, whereas the shop employee, who happened to be a man, was able to explain it to him at a level he could understand. But, I could be wrong, I wasn't there, so its just a thought.

[shootingstar]

Triskenlion: Perhaps the difference of some males (not all) who are deliberately rude if he is confused, is to look at it differently:

if the customer had been a female customer instead, many women most likely would look blankly in befuddlement and ask outright for further explanation. Or ask 'please show me what you are talking about..'

[kenyonchris]

But there is something about the tone of this thread I don't like that does smack of elitism. So what if the customer doesn't know its called a seatpost, or can't understand the technical problem with his wheels? That doesn't make him a caveman. It just makes him a customer who happens to not be as knowledgable about bikes as we all are.
.

I don't *think* anyone (RunningMom or anyone else) was being elitist at all. I think anyone who posts here, asks advice here, vents here, reads and posts here is not wholeheartedly aware that somewhere someone knows more. Otherwise, we wouldn't be here, right?
It is all about tones, body language, and circumstance. You can't see that in a post. Remember my post about my unfortunate bike and the ladies that were so obnoxious? Was I irritated because they choose to wear those funny fake nails, carry expensive accessories, eschew dirty legs and sweat and complain about a "funny noise"? No...I was irritated because they would NOT listen to the cause of the funny noise (cross chaining and poor gear selection, from the look of the bike it had about 5 miles on it), they gave me the holier than thou look, and ordered the mechanic around like he was a kitchen maid.
Do I judge? You better believe it. Maybe the Caveman was having a bad day, maybe those women were really St. Elizabeth and St. Mary in disguise, but I doubt it. How people treat others is judgeable.

[Running Mommy]

Trisk-
It was not being ELITIST at all. The caveman reference was to the fact that when I explained the tube situation to him he tuned me out and then got snotty and acused me of not answering his question. But when my male counterpart explained it to him using the exact words I did, he suddenly tuned back in and changed his tone with him.
It was the fact that I had the distinct feeling that he had an attitude towards me because I was a woman. Even my mgr agreed. He actually was the one to refer to his attitude as that of a caveman.

And as for just generally not being elitist or speaking down to someone, or using to much shop speak.
I really take my time to get to know my customer. Figure out how much they know or don't about cycling. I ask a lot of questions.
For people that are completely new I actually show them what a "drive train" or Derailluer is by pointing it out. I try not to overwhelm them with too much knowledge, but also want them to know what to look for when shopping for a bike.
Now people that are cyclists and are upgrading I go a bit more in depth with.
I always hated the way I was treated in bike shops, so I try to be careful about how I interact with people.

Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".
Maybe I will just journal them and write a book someday.

carry on folks.

[TrekTheKaty]

What a bummer. Did you write the Best of Craig's List, Letter from the bike shop? We laughed so hard--then showed it to my BIL. He frowned and said, "I think this is me?!"

We buy the occasional accessory online, but make a habit of purchasing from our local bike shop--because when you need it NOW, you'll be glad they're there.

A business associate just expressed interest in buying a bike. I told him lots of fun stories to encourage him to give it a try. Then he explicitly asked where to buy a bike. "Anywhere except WalMart or any other big box store." I explained they are inferior quality and frequently put together wrong. He said, "but they are name brands? My kids bikes are from WalMart are perfectly safe." Time to walk away. (Pet peeve--don't ask if you don't want my advice.)

Cavemen: Try the aviation industry. Planes don't know you're a girl, but most boys can't deal with a female captain. It's too hard on their very big, fragile ego.

Bleeker: Thanks, I'll have to try that.

Running Mommy--you posted while I was typing. Sorry to hear that you no longer feel that you can vent here. I didn't think you were out of line, but try this: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/1192150038.html I don't think the people you were referring to will end up here, but.......

[SadieKate]

I think that craig's list post is what Irulan already posted.

[kenyonchris]

Trisk-
It was not being ELITIST at all. The caveman reference was to the fact that when I explained the tube situation to him he tuned me out and then got snotty and acused me of not answering his question. But when my male counterpart explained it to him using the exact words I did, he suddenly tuned back in and changed his tone with him.
It was the fact that I had the distinct feeling that he had an attitude towards me because I was a woman. Even my mgr agreed. He actually was the one to refer to his attitude as that of a caveman.

And as for just generally not being elitist or speaking down to someone, or using to much shop speak.
I really take my time to get to know my customer. Figure out how much they know or don't about cycling. I ask a lot of questions.
For people that are completely new I actually show them what a "drive train" or Derailluer is by pointing it out. I try not to overwhelm them with too much knowledge, but also want them to know what to look for when shopping for a bike.
Now people that are cyclists and are upgrading I go a bit more in depth with.
I always hated the way I was treated in bike shops, so I try to be careful about how I interact with people.

Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".
Maybe I will just journal them and write a book someday.

carry on folks.

I liked your story. It is why I read this, in addition to getting great help and support. Please write more...I got you (and I bet most everyone else did too).

[Zen]

Ok. After getting some PM's suggesting that my post was out of line, or may not be so good for business, I am going to let this thread go now. And I think this is the last edition of "tales from the lbs".


Ignore them. I know exactly what you were trying to convey here and saw nothing "out of line". Some men are like that. I have words for them but will refrain from expression lest I upset some delicate sensibilities.

[Kris]

I liked the story too. And I don't know much about bikes, especially by the standards of these boards. I have met the occasional caveman, though, and it seemed to me the story was more about sexism than bicycle ignorance.

However, as a relative newcomer to the world of bicycling, I was mentally composing something of a rebuttal as I read it. Since you said to carry on, I'm going to. I've been frustrated by my LBS's here recently. One sold us a POJ (piece of junk) that we could just as well bought at WW. He's been bought out, and his successor told us it was a POJ when we brought it in to be repaired. Great. Apparently I still need to be an informed customer, and I don't have a clue how to go about getting informed. (Well, I do have one clue. I'm reading here. It's a slow process, though, when I don't even know what questions to ask. And a fair amount of what I read is right over my head.)
The other shop just doesn't seem very interested. One of my husband's students who works there said that every time the shop gets really busy, the owner leaves. People say, "Don't go there. They only care about people with $3000 bikes."

I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?

[witeowl]

I liked the story as well. I was a bit offended by parts of the CL rant. (And very grateful to know that there are many LBS owners who are less, well, judgmental.) There were numerous differences between your story and that rant. If you were like the CL guy, then I'd also suggest you keep your stories elsewhere. As is... well... I'm going to be sad at the thought of not getting to enjoy similar stories from you. :(

[Biciclista]

maybe you could collect a list of those of us who WANT TO hear the ranting of a bike shop owner. I loved the stories, including the "pole" story; because sometimes I forget a word and the only thing I can do is substitute something else (and it's funny, I know it is!!!)
It wasn't such a long time ago that my derailleur was a thingy and if you ask my DH he'll tell you I still don't get cassette and chain rings straight sometimes!

[Irulan]

I liked the story as well. I was a bit offended by parts of the CL rant. (And very grateful to know that there are many LBS owners who are less, well, judgmental.) There were numerous differences between your story and that rant. If you were like the CL guy, then I'd also suggest you keep your stories elsewhere. As is... well... I'm going to be sad at the thought of not getting to enjoy similar stories from you. :(

The CL rant is humor btw.... like most CL rants, it's overdone to make a point. I'm sure most of us could rant like that about some aspect of our work or personal lives. If that style of humor offends you, probably don't surf
Best of Craig's List in your spare time: there are some doozies out there. "Why I Want a Stoner Boyfriend" is one of my all time favorites, as is the Minute Man Bike Path Rant.

[salsabike]

I liked your story. It is why I read this, in addition to getting great help and support. Please write more...I got you (and I bet most everyone else did too).

Ditto here, Denise.

[witeowl]

The CL rant is humor btw....

Yeah, I got that. I liked most of it, but I certainly have the right to be offended by the implications of certain jokes; certain things just aren't funny if you don't have a shared view (humor has to be based on truth). For example, to truly appreciate the post, you'd have to think that someone sounding like a fattie would be a bad thing. (Would sounding like a black person be a funny insult?)

But that's OK. I was just using it for contrast, not complaining. :)

[crazycanuck]

RM-I understood what you meant & certainly have my stories to tell from when i worked in retail.

Feel free to post your rants on my facebook page :D

I guess many folks don't understand the stories posted over at the customer is not always right.. :rolleyes:

[Crankin]

I didn't think there was anything wrong, either. Frankly, I wish I had a shop where people would explain stuff. Like I said, I have no need to go to a shop, since I shop at TE or Terry and DH does mechanics. I sometimes wonder what would happen if I had decided to get into cycling if I was single. I have no mechanical ability and I even need someone to help me readjust my helmet straps when they get too loose. Can you imagine if I went into a shop asking for help with that every month or so? While I know a lot about how bikes work now, the "fancy" shop where I bought my bike didn't seem to know anything about short and shallow bars or short reach brifters... it still makes me mad that I had to do the research for that, even though they gave me a new, smaller frame for "free" after 2 years of riding a bike that was too big.
The fact that every time I went into the shop and saw people I knew, probably helped me in the long run. I think the owner thought I was a stupid woman, who only did what her husband told her. However, when several local racers were in the shop and knew me (from when my son raced), he must have observed, and realized I would blab my big mouth all over town about his bad service.
Irulan, there is a Minuteman Bike Path rant??? I guess this is why I don't go on it..

[Thorn]

Loved the story RM--made me very happy to sit at my computer and not have to deal with people that day :D I wouldn't have had 1/2 the patience you exhibited. Really.

As for such stories making newbies feel bad? Heck no. Every time I go into the bike shop I know that I'm potential joke fodder--sometimes it is even immediate and I get to share in the joke.

Whenever we learn something new, we're going to make mistakes. Take for example, learning a new language--you will say the wrong thing and the receiver may chuckle at you. Anything new is the same way. If you don't step in knowing you'll say or do the wrong thing and provide entertainment value, you'll never learn.

What's the alternative--waiting until you've got enough book knowledge to pretend? Eeks. Where's the fun in that?

No, Tales from the LBS doesn't just entertain. They help us all but pointing out how easy it is to make a mistake, how not to be a consumer, and, well, in this case, why some days your LBS welcomes you with open arms and other days they all run to the back room when you open the door.

[Zen]

For example, to truly appreciate the post, you'd have to think that someone sounding like a fattie would be a bad thing. (Would sounding like a black person be a funny insult?)


Yeah,I didn't care for that part either.

[OakLeaf]

+1 to that. But I thought the rest of it (and all of RM's OP) was hilarious.

[kenyonchris]

I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?

I would rather be transported straight to hell than set foot in WalMart. It is like a third world country. I don't do badly behaved children, and for some reason every badly behaved child in the county flocks to WalMart with their indifferent parents. My children would be fitted for pine boxes if they even thought of behaving like WalMart children (and they know it).
I can shop at Target during non-prime hours for groceries and general stuff without too much angst.

(Back on Topic) An area LBS here (actually where I took my broken Colnago) tends to be pretty condescending. I find it frustrating, so I don't go there unless I have to. At the same time, I understand they deal with people with WalMart bikes on a regular basis.
My SO is really picky about anyone touching his bike. He DOES know what he is talking about, is probably a more experienced cyclist than most the bike shop people, but is very, very quiet about it (he doesn't advertise that knowledge. I think he is superman, he doesn't). It really doesn't sit will with him to have his bike tossed around like these bike shop guys do (it is a number, a tag, and a will-call-you). But, fact is, it is the best bike shop in town in terms of experienced mechanics and stock. He makes his point by being very picky about how things are done, and puts the guys feet to the fire if it isn't done right. They could stick my derailleur on upside down and I am not sure I would notice it until I got it home. I assume the know what they are doing, so they do it.

[OakLeaf]

I'm wondering how many of you shop at big box stores for things other than bikes?


Okay, can't resist the drift (and for the record, I'll shop at Best Buy, Lowe's and B&N, but not WM; the closest closely-held electronics and book stores to me are over an hour's drive; I prefer to shop the local hardware store but they often don't have what I need).

I concede that when setting up a new household, most of the mom-and-pops that would carry things like plastic trash cans for the bathroom have already been driven out of business by WW, so there isn't much of an alternative if you don't want or can't afford Architectural Digest grade trash cans.

But there's a more important difference. A pair of polyester stretch pants with the seams sewn crooked won't kill or seriously injure you or your child. An improperly assembled bicycle very easily could.

[Cataboo]

I don't find anything offensive about RunningMom's posts... and would shop at her bike shop if she was anywhere around here.

I can't quite say I buy a ton from local bike shops (I'm an evil internet and craigslist shopper), but if I can't get something significantly cheaper online than it is at the bike shop, I definitely go to the bike shop, because I'd rather give them the business and I get instant gratification.

And there are lots of times I go into shops expecting to be laughed at. I called an appliance store the other day asking "for that little copper nut type thing that threads onto the heating element of my dishwasher from underneath" I can't remember what name it had, but it had hat or something. They knew what I was talking about, laughed at my description and got one for me.

I once had a parts guy at subaru laughing his *** off at me... I'd done my first oil change on my subaru, drained out all the fluid, changed the filter, and then tried to start the car and it wouldn't go in gear.... Turns out that subaru uses the same filter size & housing for their oil filter as their automatic transmission fluid filter... And i'd drained out all my transmission fluid and changed the transmission fluid filter.

So being a new car, autozone didn't have replacement transmission fluid or filters, and I had to go to the dealer... So I'm asking for new filters, explaining what happened and the parts guy was just absolutely cracking up. When he gave me the new filters, I opened up the transmission fluid filter and pointed out to him "LOOK IT SAYS OIL FILTER ON THE SIDE HERE JUST LIKE IT SAYS ON THE SIDE OF THE OIL FILTER"

He continued to giggle, but did say "Yeah, it really shouldn't say oil filter on the side of that, and it used to be they made those different colors than the oil filter.... "

I'm sure I was the idiot woman that made his day - but I can completely understand him laughing at me for it. He helpfully got me all the transmission fluid & parts I needed though.

[Possegal]

I picked up hardwoods that I'm having put in my living room soon. The guy selling me the stuff said many things that were just beyond my comprehension. He laughed when I asked him to write it down for my contractor as I felt he was speaking a foreign language. Then I said - though in my defense, you wouldn't understand me if I talked shop either, we all have our own language. :)

I enjoyed RM's story too. We all have to rant when we deal with people that drive us crazy. Better to rant to us than to the customer, right?

[witeowl]

Then I said - though in my defense, you wouldn't understand me if I talked shop either, we all have our own language. :)

I don't know what you're talking about. When I taught SpEd, I'm sure the parents of all my students understood fully that the purpose of the IEP (discussed in the presence of an LEA) was to provide a FAPE in the LRE, possibly while implementing PBI based on an FBA. :D

And, yes, we were constantly reminded to not throw around those acronyms around parents... or even non-Special Education teachers... but we would often slip into old habits. Of course, even without acronyms, it's still jargon-ific.

[Irulan]

I picked up hardwoods that I'm having put in my living room soon. The guy selling me the stuff said many things that were just beyond my comprehension. He laughed when I asked him to write it down for my contractor as I felt he was speaking a foreign language. Then I said - though in my defense, you wouldn't understand me if I talked shop either, we all have our own language. :)

I enjoyed RM's story too. We all have to rant when we deal with people that drive us crazy. Better to rant to us than to the customer, right?

This board is full of potential bike shop customers.

[PamNY]

I don't know what you're talking about. When I taught SpEd, I'm sure the parents of all my students understood fully that the purpose of the IEP (discussed in the presence of an LEA) was to provide a FAPE in the LRE, possibly while implementing PBI based on an FBA..

Bravo, Witeowl.

[MartianDestiny]

But there's a more important difference. A pair of polyester stretch pants with the seams sewn crooked won't kill or seriously injure you or your child. An improperly assembled bicycle very easily could.

And we have a winner. I go to Target and a large chain grocery store (Safeway) for most of my day-to-day consumable needs (food, personal care, etc) and some of the basics that don't have equivalent local stores or who's equivalent local store's price is far out of my pay grade (trash cans, plastic containers, etc).

Most of the rest of it (including nearly all of my "luxury" type purchases) are at speciality and/or local stores with some exceptions made for online stores like Amazon which I am dearly in love with for my boxed TV series sets. About as close as I get to "big box" on a regular basis is REI. I just enjoy shopping at these places more, and luckily I live in an area where a) the prices remain fairly competitive and b) these guys are still around.

It is a goal of mine to never set foot in a Walmart again. A goal made easy by the fact that my City refuses to let them build, so the closest one is something like 15-20 miles away (HURRAY!).

[PinkBike]

oh denise, please dont get upset over one cranky response. check out the complete thread, i for one relished the whole post. dont stop posting your "tales from the lbs."

as for the caveman mentality, i've been getting it all my life. when i used to ride motorcycles, my now-ex would love to act like a dolt and see how the sales/service people would respond. i found that quite fun. we kept a little tackle box full of various sizes carburetor jets. when he would go to the shop and ask for a jet, they'd say "what size" and he'd hold his thumb and forefinger about an inch apart and say "oh about this big."

now when i go to my lbs, depending on who's the salesman of the day, they like to direct questions to my DH who has nary a clue. for example: he loves his bianchi - the one DENISE at ESTRELLA MOUNTAIN CYCLERY gave him such an outstanding deal on!! he was quite concerned that the "campagnola" decal on one of the crank arms was scratched and peeling off and wanted to know how to save/restore it. turns out it was a piece of packing tape that covered the decal to protect it during shipping that was peeling off. and yet we'll go into a shop and ask about compact cranks or something and they'll want to direct all their questions to The Man.

hey, so what? choose contentment.

i've seen lots of different people on this forum get offended by a lot of different things. let it fall off your back.

keep on runnin'

[ridebikeme]

WOW! I'm sorry that this thread has upset some people; I truly don't think that it was intended that way. Communicating online is something that people do several times a day, but there are lots of misunderstandings simply because we aren't talking to each other face to face.

I know several shops that don't work on Wallyworld bikes, and that's their choice. Like so many of you have mentioned, I choose to educate people on the difference and have sold many bikes because of it. However, it does take alot of time to do this, and perhaps some shops simply choose not to MAKE the time.,,, it's not up to me to judge them for that.

Every one of us has something that we don't have a lot of experience with, and it's wonderful when people will take the time to educate us.

I for one, have been in the situation where business is slow and it's very scary. The bike world is not one where we will become wealthy... it's more of a lifestyle than anything else. It's one where you will always have customers that you love, and others that will drive you crazy... but that's life in the real world. Running a business is simply another life lesson, and one that we learn from each and every day. The issue that I do have with this post is this: for the most part we can't choose who are customers are, all we can do is give them the best service that we can. We will always have customers that are saints, and others who remind us how wonderful some people are. I for one, don't understand where venting about how your business is doing or NOT doing is helpful online. (unless it's targeted at friends, family etc) It's comfusing to read posts like that, and then to see another venting about certain customers. Perhaps I'm too old school, but it seems that it's a huge contradiction and not an impression I would want to leave with people.

This post is NOT meant to upset anyone, I'm simply sharing the view that I have whether it's shared by others or not.

[shootingstar]

No, Tales from the LBS doesn't just entertain. They help us all but pointing out how easy it is to make a mistake, how not to be a consumer, and, well, in this case, why some days your LBS welcomes you with open arms and other days they all run to the back room when you open the door.

+1

I perceive Runningmommy as working hard for her customers/biz and trying to meet diverse needs, no matter how grumpy/rude some customers maybe.

The reality is owning a LBS as biz, will not make one terribly rich. While I understand why certain LBS may refuse to deal with wally bikes, it does repeatedly leave a distinctly negative impression on the customer who cannot be blamed particularily if person does not want/is unable financially to invest in a few extra hundred dollars for a better bike. Building a larger customer base is a long-term proposition if LBS wants to survive. Of course, it depends how LBS staff are trained in terms of customer service. It is something LBS manager should consciously teach their staff.

Cycling world does have a certain amount of jargon, some of it technical. Can I name all the parts of a bike? After all these cycling years, no. I just haven't made the effort (even though we have 1-2 bks.) I just have my dearie look at it or take it to LBS for repair.

Dislosure :o: One of my partner's business associates for his cycling facility consulting firm, is owner and manager of a local chain of several bike stores in the Vancouver area. They deal with all sorts of bikes.

[Loraura]

Bummer on the caveman.

My bike shop has adapters that fit a shrader drilled rim to make a presta valve tube fit without issues. Perhaps with one of those adapters you'd be able to sell him long stem presta valves for his aero shrader drilled rims.

A set of 2 adapters cost me like 5 bucks or less I think.

Here are some examples I found:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Mavic-Mavic-Rim-Valve-Hole-Drilling-Converter-Insert--Schraeder-to-Presta-3335.htm

http://store.bikefriday.com/product_info.php?products_id=979

[Crankin]

Witeowl, your post made me laugh. When my younger son was in first grade, in 1991, we had him evaluated. When we went to the meeting to go over the results, I totally ignored my DH and went over the testing with the teachers and others at the meeting. Finally, he turned to me and said, "I don't understand a damn thing you are saying..." I then realized how parents must feel and never did that again.
All I know is one fact: I could never work in a customer service type job.

And, I have never been in a WalMart. Or, a Costco, Sam's Club, etc. I do my grocery shopping at local chains (5-8 stores), Trader Joe's, and a local natural foods store. At this time of year, I go to local farms and farmer's markets.
We bought all of our bikes at 3 different lbs'. However, we do buy all of the parts for repair/replacement on line. When my son was racing, it was financially necessary for my DH to learn how to wrench. He is extremely mechanical, so it's not like it was something that was hard for him. I mean, when I bought my second road bike, the shop wired my computer backwards and the LBS I bought my Kuota from has made several stupid mechanical mistakes that my DH fixed. I buy my bike clothing here at TE or Terry. The only time we had to bring a bike to a shop for work is when my DH messed up his disc brakes on his mtb. We don't have the tool to work on that, and since we barely ride those bikes, we won't get it.

Again, I would love to have a shop that wasn't condescending to women near me!

[lph]

I for one think it's both appropriate and often entertaining when someone rants here about someone being rude or condescending to them, whether it's friends, family, colleagues or customers. Peoples ignorance, however, is something to be treated gently, not ranted over, but all I've read here were humorous remarks, no rants. Well, except rants against ignorance in people who should know better, like "mechanics" who assemble a bike unsafely.

[Selkie]

RM -- Please continue posting about your good and not-so-good shop experiences. I think a lot of us have been in your place -- male discounting a female's advice/guidance but listening to the exact same advice when a man gives it.

[crazycanuck]

RM has taken a TE vacation :(

People spit the dummy too quickly!

In the meantime there's always the customer's not always right site.

[witeowl]

People spit the dummy too quickly!

:confused: Translation, please?

[Geonz]

:confused: Translation, please?
Ask mr. google and she sends you to

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Spit+the+Dummy

Australian Term: To indulge in a sudden display of anger or frustration; to lose one’s temper. The phrase is usually used of an adult, and the implication is that the outburst is childish, like a baby spitting out its dummy in a tantrum and refusing to be pacified. (Dummy is a pacifier)

Snork... so it's kinda spitting the dummy to accuse somebody of spitting the dummy...

[Cataboo]

So I'm confused as to who is spitting the dummy. RM or other people?

But I have noticed a disturbing tendency lately for any topic that's over 2 pages lately to degenerate into crankiness or to be shut down by a couple cranky people that can't take threads with the lightness they were intended to have. There seems to be an inability to debate or discuss something without crankiness or posturing. And that's pretty sad.

[PamNY]

So I'm confused as to who is spitting the dummy. RM or other people?

What a great sentence. I think that's my new favorite sentence.

However, I have the same question -- who is spitting the dummy?

[Cataboo]

What a great sentence. I think that's my new favorite sentence.

However, I have the same question -- who is spitting the dummy?

I volunteer to spit the dummy for now, till we figure out who else has been spitting up dummies.

[Possegal]

Is dummy a word most Americans know for a pacifier? This came up when watching the Tour one day, when Phil used the term. My family uses it, but Mum was Canadian and that is where it came from for us. My sister commented that she didn't think it was a word most Americans would know as a pacifier. But I wasn't sure. Just curious. :)

[Cataboo]

Is dummy a word most Americans know for a pacifier? This came up when watching the Tour one day, when Phil used the term. My family uses it, but Mum was Canadian and that is where it came from for us. My sister commented that she didn't think it was a word most Americans would know as a pacifier. But I wasn't sure. Just curious. :)

I think it's more a british english term. I haven't really heard it in the US. My british relatives use it though.

[Possegal]

Yeah, that's what we figured. And Canadians use a lot of Brit words, so that's why my mother used it. Most of the time I notice the things I say that the kids I grew up with didn't. :) I guess I hadn't noticed that one before.

[Cataboo]

Yeah, that's what we figured. And Canadians use a lot of Brit words, so that's why my mother used it. Most of the time I notice the things I say that the kids I grew up with didn't. :) I guess I hadn't noticed that one before.


It adds character. Canada with respect to gardening, fish & chip shops, etc., seems to be much more "British" than the US.

[PamNY]

I volunteer to spit the dummy for now, till we figure out who else has been spitting up dummies.

Excellent! I'm going for a ride in 96 percent humidity and weekday traffic, so I'll probably be in a mood to spit dummies when I get back.

[Zen]

I call mine a binky.

[witeowl]

Ask mr. google and she sends you to...

Oh, my goodness! I genuinely thought that there were multiple words missing from that sentence, and the idea that it was an idiom worthy of googling never even entered my mind! :o Thanks for the help. :)


Is dummy a word most Americans know for a pacifier?

I don't know that any Americans (besides you, I presume) would know it for a pacifier. A dumb person, a crash-test dummy, a mannequin... All those, sure. A pacifier? I just can't see it. Well, what do you expect from people who make the storage area of a car share a name with a type of shoe? ;)

[channlluv]

I interpreted "spitting the dummy" to mean saying something stupid, a la Red Foxx on Sanford and Son yelling at Lamont and calling him a dummy.

I like the "tales from the lbs" stories, too. And most of the time the stuff you ladies talk about is way over my head. I just read on and try to soak it in and learn.

When I first found TE and was welcomed here, I was asked what kind of bike I had. "Well, it's lavender with white trim," I think was my response. Yes, really. I still feel like a clueless noob much of the time, although I now know I ride a mtb and I can change a tube and adjust my own brakes and clean her up all by myself. I can even identify some parts - cool sounding stuff like "top tube" and "rear derailleur" (is there a front derailleur?), although I'd still call the seat thingy a seat post.

So much to learn, so much to learn.

The only things I buy online are books (usually from Amazon) and bike stuff from TE.

Roxy

[Biciclista]

language doesn't really have to make sense to the uninitiated!

boy is this thread drifting or what?!

[MM_QFC!]

Yeah. Welcome to my world. I deal with Cavemen ALL THE TIME. ...I cannot STAND people (men or women) who treat others who are there to serve them (as the bike shop people or the cops in the city) like peons.
...I understand that just handing his Wal-Mart bike back to him and telling him to take a long walk off a short pier is not good for business, and you have to try to be tolerant of those who are ignorant, want something for nothing, and are rude to boot.

At least I get to arrest em.

+1, except that IMHO it really isn't necessary "to try to be tolerant of those who are...rude. Rudeness, to me, isn't either on the same plane as ignorance or frugality, so I can't agree that toleration should be a default for those who choose to be rude or disrespectful in their interactions with others.

RM, keep on keeping on...that's why TE is a forum - for each of us to experience the support of our cycling sisters, eh?!

[kenyonchris]

I volunteer to spit the dummy for now, till we figure out who else has been spitting up dummies.

I wish a few people would use them (dummies) on the badly behaved kids in WalMart. Buying unsafe bikes. With parents in stretch pants.

[Veronica]

I think babies should not be allowed on red eye flights. :rolleyes:

Veronica

[kenyonchris]

I think babies should not be allowed on red eye flights. :rolleyes:

Veronica

Ugh. I am perpetually next to a) a baby or b) a badly behaved child. Babies I can take (sort of), badly behaved children, no. Mainly because I know (having two) that babies are sometimes crabby...but it is not hard to teach children how to behave.

[OakLeaf]

Ugh. I am perpetually next to a) a baby or b) a badly behaved child. Babies I can take (sort of), badly behaved children, no. Mainly because I know (having two) that babies are sometimes crabby...but it is not hard to teach children how to behave.

I wonder how hard it is to teach 250# men not to put their arms three inches past their arm rests.

Those are the ones who are always seated next to me.

I'd rather have a screaming baby. I wear earplugs to drown out the engine noise, anyhow. :cool:

[crazycanuck]

Whoops, RM didn't spit the dummy, someone else did.

Our PM, Kevin Rudd spat the dummy a few months ago & made a stewardess cry :( Then he couldn't have a hairdryer while visiting troops overseas :rolleyes:

I think that women with prams should be banned from footpaths!!! UAGHGHGHGH. They take up 1/2 the footpath :mad:, walk too slowly & spend most of their time talking to thier poopsie woopsie friend beside them who has a double pram!!! AGHGHGHG.

If you have a small child, do you mind not taking up half the space in small cafes with your pram? There are other people around!!!

[FireFlower]

fantastic rant! I love it, even tho it is the spawn of many a dark day for you, it has brightened my whole day today!