Irritated Garmin Edge user lookin to commiserate

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

(duplicate post from Gear and Accessories - to make sure seen by other Edge/Forerunner users)

I just learned last night of MotionBased forcing all Garmin users to use GarminConnect instead of MB by July 31.

I gave it a chance, mind you. I went over to GC hoping since MB was forcing the change that GC had made changes to be similar or "as good". Much to my chagrin... NO.. it hasn't gotten better. You can't see "moving time" avg speed in the summary info.. You can't see max or average gradient info from your hill climbing... and there's no weather info from your ride either.

Sure, they say these things will be added later, but when? I paid a good deal of money for this fun little toy. Why buy a Garmin product if there is no reporting functionality at the tail end to fully analyze your ride? I don't "get" this move.

I'm p*ssed!

Are there other MB-like programs out there that can analyze data similarly or will we be forced to plug-along with GC? <pouting>

[SadieKate]

For a minute there, I thought i was seeing double.

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=32566

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Well, I did say I was duplicate-posting... Little did I know an industrious lady would reply to my first posting so quickly!

Thanks SK! I'm downloading ST as I type here! You made my day!

[SadieKate]

Sure! One of these days I'll post all the plug-ins I use, but if I wait long enough Oakleaf will. :rolleyes: :D

Can you tell we like Sporttracks? Great forum there if you need hep.

[tctrek]

Looks like Sportstracks doesn't support MAC?

[gnat23]

I miss the "weather" info. I liked comparing rides based on the headwind I was experiencing at the time to see if that was a valid excuse for a lower speeds.

-- gnat!

[Mr. Bloom]

Generally, I don't like change...and this change is no exception. This too will pass.

For some time, I've been hoping to have "smoothed" graphs...but now that I do, I don't like it...but this too will pass.

I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get GC installed and working...I kept clicking circuitous links in a vicious circle...and now, some of my rides are duplicated...and I'm not sure all of them have migrated yet...

[HoosierGiant]

What I hate is that not everything has migrated yet, and that's supposed to occur over the next couple of months. In the meantime we're just supposed to trust them that all our data will eventually show up. Right.

For me, nothing over 40 miles has moved from Motion Based to Garmin Connect, so it makes comparing long rides a real pain. And the fact that no rides since the middle of June are included is ticking me off something royal. Come on guys, you've been working on this roll-out for well over a year, do you think you could have had everything ready to go before you forced us to make the switch?!

And I want weather info, and I want it now!!!

[OakLeaf]

Sure! One of these days I'll post all the plug-ins I use, but if I wait long enough Oakleaf will. :rolleyes: :D

Hah. :p Actually I really only use the Terraserver map plug-in, and the elevation correction plug-in for the Forerunner only. They say not to use elevation correction for the Edge models with barometric altimeter. What are your favorites?


Looks like Sportstracks doesn't support MAC?

From the latest release notes (http://zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/Downloads/linux.php):


SportTracks builds for Linux
With the 2.1.3478 (July 10, 2009) release SportTracks is providing experimental support for Linux using Mono 2.0+...

A notable item in the Mono roadmap for 2.6 (planned release September 2009) is updates to OSX for Windows.Forms which SportTracks relies on heavily. At this point we cannot guarantee SportTracks will work on OSX with Mono 2.4, however it might. Ambitious and tech-savvy OSX users may want to try the install and post feedback on the forums. For others, check back after Mono 2.6 has been released for OSX.

I've been running SportTracks for Windows under Parallels on my Mac. I don't speak Linux, and I use the Terminal window only for the daily, weekly and monthly maintenance tasks - so this is beyond me.

[pinkbikes]

Generally, I don't like change...and this change is no exception. This too will pass.

For some time, I've been hoping to have "smoothed" graphs...but now that I do, I don't like it...but this too will pass.

I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get GC installed and working...I kept clicking circuitous links in a vicious circle...and now, some of my rides are duplicated...and I'm not sure all of them have migrated yet...

Ooh yeah! I hate those smooth and useless graphs. I only used Motion Based a few times with DH's 305 when he had it, but I liked its versatility in setting up graphs to compare different data sets.

Since getting my 705 and using GC I have been disppointed with the lack of ability to customise those smooth graphs and see how long you are in various heart rate ranges etc. It seems there is not much flexibilty (unless I'm missing something?

In the end I downloaded Training Centre to my pc and I find it much more useful for data. The only thing it doesn't do that GC does (that I can find anyways) is show your route on satellite photo.

[roguedog]

i'm debating getting a 705 or a suunto t6c. how do you guys like your 705s aside from the software issues? do you find the gps stuff handy? how's it helped your cycling?

[OakLeaf]

I LOVE my 705. Besides being a total data geek, the mapping capability is an enormous comfort to me, since I have the world's worst sense of direction. And, anyone can miss turns in an unfamiliar area, and cue sheets and road markings aren't always what they should be.

People will tell you not to rely on any electronic gadget, and that's good advice - I try to always carry a paper map when I'm in an unfamiliar area, and the small screen on the Garmin makes it hard to create a route on the fly when you need to make a detour, etc. - but it's enormously valuable to me. Even when you do decide to pull the paper map out, the map can't tell you where you are.

Firmware version 2.6 has been stable and trouble-free for me and for most users. If you go to the MotionBased forums, I'm pretty sure there's a link to where you can download a patch to revert your firmware back to 2.6.

The drowning cadence sensors are a bigger issue than the firmware bugs IMO, and I see no good reason why Garmin can't have waterproofed the things after all these years. :mad: It wouldn't keep me from buying another Garmin product - especially since they're willing to replace the cadence sensors under warranty with very little hassle - but it's still a PITA going without it when it drowns.

My advice would be to take the cadence sensor off whenever you wash your bike, and carry a small pair of side cutters in your tool kit to remove it and stash it in your waterproof storage with your phone and paperwork whenever it starts to rain during a ride.

I don't use a power meter and I've never seen the Suunto unit, so I can't comment on those. But I don't believe any other GPS has mapping capability.


ETA: I don't "train" on the bike - I just ride ;). But I have a Garmin Forerunner that I use for running, and I really like the ability to create various interval and tempo workouts. So many people here do their intervals on the treadmill just to be able to have pace monitoring :eek:. GPS isn't ever going to be as consistent as a treadmill, but the benefits of being able to do my speedwork outdoors FAR outweigh any accuracy glitches, IMO. It'll give audible and visible alerts so you don't have to be constantly looking at the screen to know when you're outside your target speed or HR range, or when you're about to go to the next segment (which you can set for time, distance, or whenever your HR reaches a particular target).

[pinkbikes]

I absolutely love mine. I'm just a big old data geek and enjoy looking at the stats in Training Centre.:D

Like Oakleaf I carry a paper map too if I'm somewhere I don't know well, but I have found the screen ok if I really need to find where I am. Just takes a bit of practice to get the right resolution and move around. Fortunately, some geek with too much time on his hands has put together a far better topographical map for Australia than the one that comes standard, so I will have the hiking trail to the top of Mt Barney (I'm hiking up it this coming weekend) if I take my 705. And some other lovely geek has mapped all of the MTB trails in south east Queensland and put them up for us to download, so when I am in the forest I can tell which trail I'm on too.

The only thing I seem to be having trouble with at the moment is that the altimeter is a little bit wonky the last few weeks. I am not sure why but every few rides it seems to throw up some pretty dodgy elevations. For example I ride a loop from home and back to home but the closing error is very large (like 30m). I seem to recall somebody talking about periodically recalibrating the barometric altimeter using satellite data (or vice versa?) but there is nothing in the manual about it and I can't remember where I saw it. Might have to ask Garmin for assistance since it is still under warranty.

I've never had a drama with the cadence sensor - didn't even realise they do drown! I had it on my MTB briefly in case of lost signal in the forest and needing the speed override, but I rarely if ever lose signal and I find cadence on the MTB so variable with the terrain as to be kind of useless from a stats point of view. So I put it on the roadie instead where I find measuring cadence much more useful. The only time I have ever got it good and wet was in the Mooloolaba Triathlon when it poured cats and dogs but it didn't seem to bother it at all.:confused:

[easterbird]

Garmin users. Check out SportTracks. It's great and there's a lot of info about the Garmin 'problem' at start up(elevation jump).Other Garmin stuff discussed. Sadie K, thanks for your help earlier...., I'm a convert now:D




Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject:
Question:

Garmin (barometric) devices specific notes?

Answer:

* There is a "noise" from the measurements, the value can toggle +/- 0.48 m on flats. Therefore one second recording gives inflated values. See this thread going into detail. It is established that Edge 305&705, Forerunner 305&405 do record the elevation in steps of approx. 0.481 meters. ALL elevation differences in the ORIGINAL record from one point to the next will be 0 OR a multiple of 0.481 meters. Due to this, notably grade values and graphs might be very inaccurate locally, however, they get reasonable if averaged over some time.
* Barometric changes may give absolute differences (so passing a certain point gives different values each time). The device auto calculates during the ride, but if the pressure changes fast enough, the device will not calibrate enough.
* Beware of the "kludge" when starting - the device syncs the barometric elevation to the GPS height then.
* An elevation "jump" may be observed with an Edge 305 at start of a record. This thread goes into details.
http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=6121

[SadieKate]

Hah. :p Actually I really only use the Terraserver map plug-in, and the elevation correction plug-in for the Forerunner only. They say not to use elevation correction for the Edge models with barometric altimeter. What are your favorites? Darn. Guess I have to type up the list myself. I've used all these at various times (and have both a Forerunner and an Edge)

Accumulated Summary
After Import
Apply Routes
BENBUN - Export CRS
CSV Export
Elevation Correction (set to use with non-barometic devices only)
GDAL
GPS2PowerTrack
Overlay
Sporttracks Garmin Device
Sporttracks Garmin GPS
Sporttracks Map Provider for Terraserver
Sporttracks World Weather Provider
Upload to GPSies.com
WB CSV Importer
Where in the World



Garmin users. Check out SportTracks. It's great and there's a lot of info about the Garmin 'problem' at start up(elevation jump).Other Garmin stuff discussed. Sadie K, thanks for your help earlier...., I'm a convert now:DYou're very welcome!

Wow, that elevation data info gave me a headache. :p

[kenyonchris]

i'm debating getting a 705 or a suunto t6c. how do you guys like your 705s aside from the software issues? do you find the gps stuff handy? how's it helped your cycling?

OK WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT???
I gather it is some sort of new fangled computer dealie. Am I behind on the times? An oldster? A techno-dwarf? I have a little computer on my mtb to tell me that i have sweated my a$$ off for 11 miles, averaging 13 mph, for 54 minutes. I have a little computer on my road bike telling me I have sweated my a$$ off for 54 miles, at 20 mph average, for two and a half hours. The road bike one has a little blinky light on it too, that I notices blinks in time with my pedal stroke.
Is there something I am missing?

[Pedal Wench]

Is there something I am missing?

The Garmin Edge will tell you exactly where you sweated your a$$ off.

I preload routes in mine (immensely valuable on brevets) and I use it as confirmation with the cue sheets. A turn-by-turn guide on the ride. Today, I was helping out at a breast cancer training walk, and I preloaded their route. Using the maps, I could easily jump ahead on the route shortcutting the walkers. On self-supported rides, I can see where there are stores for water and nature breaks.

Then, after the ride, you can see where you were, elevation profiles, speeds during the ride, heart rate and cadence placed over time or elevation or speed, etc. Fun stuff!

[kenyonchris]

The Garmin Edge will tell you exactly where you sweated your a$$ off.

I preload routes in mine (immensely valuable on brevets) and I use it as confirmation with the cue sheets. A turn-by-turn guide on the ride. Today, I was helping out at a breast cancer training walk, and I preloaded their route. Using the maps, I could easily jump ahead on the route shortcutting the walkers. On self-supported rides, I can see where there are stores for water and nature breaks.

Then, after the ride, you can see where you were, elevation profiles, speeds during the ride, heart rate and cadence placed over time or elevation or speed, etc. Fun stuff!

Hmmm. That may be too technical for me. I just figured the ipod out.

[OakLeaf]

Everything PedalWench said, plus -

With a preloaded route, it will beep when you're approaching a turn (once to warn, and again as you get very close), and tell you the name of the road and which direction you're supposed to turn onto it.

You can use it for navigation in the car, too. Although letting it design its own route from point A to point B doesn't really work all that well for cycling loops (because it has no way to take into account road conditions or how many miles you wanted to do), it works very well in the car (same algorithms they use for the car and moto GPS units), and in a pinch for just getting back to familiar territory when you're hopelessly lost. (It will avoid unpaved roads, to the best of its information, and limited-access highways, when you select those options, but it has no way to know whether a particular road is so busy and narrow that you'd rather avoid it on the bici, or whether the next road over is way more scenic.)

Even if you're relying on paper maps for navigation, it will tell you where you are and which direction you're heading, which aren't always clear from road signs.

It will give you two panes of real-time information, with your choice of 1 to 8 data fields in each: speed, cadence, power output if you have a power meter, heart rate, average of any of those over a lap or over the whole ride, grade, elevation, total distance, lap distance, total ascent or descent, sunrise time, sunset time, current time of day, elapsed time for the ride, approximate time, ETA or exact distance to your destination, approximate time, ETA or exact distance to the next turn or waypoint, heading, bearing, maximum speed, cadence or power for current lap, last lap or overall, and more...

You can save waypoints, just to remember the location of something interesting, or if you want to let the unit navigate back to a remembered place from somewhere else.

You can choose from a variety of pre-loaded workouts or program your own; it will give you a series of warning tones and then a different tone to let you know when your interval has begun and ended; it will alert when your speed, heart rate or cadence goes above or below your desired range for the interval (but not power output, apparently :(), and play a little victory melody when your workout's finished. :p

When you upload your data into an application like SportTracks or some of the subscription services online, it will track the life of your equipment and alert you when it's nearing replacement time - how many miles on your rear tire or your cassette? How many hours on your HRM battery?

Really, how did we live without this stuff? :p:rolleyes:

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

OMG! At least ten replies had been posted after my last post and TE didn't send me notification! Roar!

LOVE and appreciate all the information gals!!

I spent a good chunk last night importing Edge rides and equipment used. I added one plug-in for GPS Powertrack hoping that was the one that'd show me weather, avg MOVING speed, and gradients. I know it's supposed to extrapolate power info w/o a power meter... But I was really hoping for those other items.

Which plugins will give me the info I'm losing off MotionBased? Or do I just need to stop being lazy with the pause button (for an accurate moving avg)?

Sporttracks is looking VERY cool!!

[OakLeaf]

For weather, go to Settings:Display and enter your location.

But, I don't use that much. There have been some bugs on and off in weather data retrieval. You have to enter your location rather than it automatically choosing the weather station from your GPS location. Plus, at best, it retrieves only temperature and atmospheric conditions; and the weather stations don't appear to be very accurate. So I manually correct weather data for my rides/runs in the USA, by going to the National Weather Service (http://www.weather.gov/), entering the zip code to get to the forecast page [best and most accurate forecasts IMO, BTW], then clicking on the "3 Day History" link at the bottom of the "Current Conditions" pane. That will give you hour-by-hour humidity and wind speed and direction, as well as temperature, precipitation and cloud cover. (Smaller airport weather stations may only report during the daytime, though.)

For moving averages, it's a two-step process. First, go to Select View:Categories:Activity Categories and choose the activity you want to edit (running, road cycling, trail cycling, etc.). For that activity, choose the pace or speed you want to count as "stopped." Then, go to Settings:Display:Analysis, and un-check "Include stopped in time & distance totals." That'll be the same pane where you edit your data smoothing preferences, too.


For displaying gradients, go to the bottom left panel in your Daily Activity window and click the triangle on the right of the title bar (defaults to Summary), to see a pull-down menu, and select Elevation. Then in the bottom window, you can use the pull-down menu to choose a display of grade or elevation against distance or time; click the little button that's an image of a graph to add more data to your graph; and click the button that's an image of a window to make the graph take the whole bottom pane rather than being divided into map and graph. With the map pane open, you can click on the map to show that point on the graph, or hover your cursor over the graph to select points along it.


Just play with SportTracks and you'll learn as you go. I know it does a lot that I don't know how to do yet. The people on the SportTracks forums are super helpful, too.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Thank you thank you! First major hurdles out of the way.

I'm like Mr Silver... don't much like change! LOL... but I'm fairly good with figuring out software (once I get a one or two pointers) <wink>

Pretty nifty tool!