DILEMMA: Training for two different fall events...

[indigoiis]

Hi Gals, I have a dilemma. I am training for a century in late September, and a half marathon in mid-October. I did a century in June and occasionally do long rides on the weekend, commute 2-3 days per week, but not consistently. I mountain bike (or my version of it - mostly walking) maybe 2-3x a month. And with the running, I run 2-3 miles comfortably, maybe once or twice a week, and did a 5K and an 8K in June. I am relatively fit and don't much overdo it - kind of a slacker in training. I also work full time and have a teenager who is not driving independently yet. So I move when I can but it's nothing like the training schedules I've seen other women doing. I also have a farm so consider my daily chores to be "weights and stretching." :p

Anyhow, after all that, here's my question. I have 12 weeks for century training and I think I can manage that between commutes x 2 a week and a long weekend ride, upping the mileage til the 11th week. I have 15 weeks to train for the 1/2 marathon.

1. Should I run one day, ride the next day, 1 day off a week, or

2. Run in a.m., commute in, bus home?

3. Long run on Saturday, long ride on Sunday?

4. Weights after a run?

5. Finally, does my riding help my running, and visa versa? Like, does riding 15 miles "count" as one of my running training days?

How do you girls manage running AND riding training schedules? Your advice immensely appreciated.

Anj

[OakLeaf]

I'm doing kind of the same thing - training for a tough two-day back-to-back century event in late September and a half marathon in October. I don't have a job or kids, so overtraining really isn't an issue for me, but I probably don't devote much more time to my training than you do.

What's your goal for these events? Just to finish? Is the century competitive, or tougher terrain than you're used to? Or can you just maintain on the bike, from where you are now, and meet your goal there?

Alternate days is working for me. The only strength work I'm doing is what I do in my aerobics classes, plus another session of Pilates or yoga. I take a good long time to stretch after each run, and I'm trying to get better about stretching after a ride. Neuromuscular work, I do a little now and then throughout the day, when I'm reading, working on the computer, or just not doing anything else. I would NOT consider your farm work to be "stretching"! But I think at this point in time you definitely don't want to do any strength work on top of that, as long as you're practicing healthy lifting and bending and using your core when you do your chores. Make time for stretching, foam roller and Thera-Cane - injury prevention is really important since you need to be building miles pretty quickly.

I don't think doing the "bricks" will help you, since you're not training for a tri or duathlon. If I were you, I'd opt for longer runs over a short run plus short ride, since it seems like running mileage is really what you need to focus on right now.

I'm doing my long ride and long run on successive days, with my recovery day after that. Back in the spring I think it was Wahine who confirmed that that's a good way to do it.

Ack, you've made me realize how little time I have left to train. :eek::rolleyes: Also how little time I have left to be "under 50" which was the motivator for all this to begin with. :p

[indigoiis]

Hey, thanks. Okay, I like that long ride, long run, rest day thing. I could do:

Sat.: Long run
Sun: Long ride
Mon: rest
Tue: 1/2 Commute in, full back
Wed: full commute in, 1/2 commute back
Thur: short run
Fri: short run

Since I have my kid Wed/Thurs nights and every other weekend, that would work well for me.

It's okay to concentrate one type of training over 2 days? (e.g. ride/ride, run/run)?

[limewave]

It seems to me like doing long run followed by long bike the next day would trash my legs. I think I would just alternate weeks for the long run and long bike. So that one week would be long run on Saturday, easy ride Sunday. The following, easy run Saturday, long bike Sunday.

Either way, you are getting your endurance training so you don't necessarily need to fit in every single training session for both.

And, I see all your run workouts are right in a row: Th, F, Sat. Could you alternate that? Maybe long bike on Saturday and then run on Sunday? My body doesn't handle running like that. I can only do two days of running before I need to do something else to be productive.

I am no expert, that's just my two cents.

[indigoiis]

You raise a good point.
My only problem is that on the days I have my daughter, I need to get her to our house, which involves using the car, and then get her to school next day, which is car to city bus. So my only good commute days have been Mondays or Tuesdays when she is with her Dad. But maybe I can change our schedule this year... Also, she is older now and on the verge of driving and also rides, so perhaps we can come up with a shorter half commute that includes her riding. It's just hard to find a balance. Evening is tough because we all go to bed so early and so that is our together time. But I guess I must make it work and find a way to train if I am to have a pleasant and fun !FIRST! half marathon.

[katluvr]

I thinking making a goal of how many times/miles you want to do each is important. Then each week it may change on how you feel and what your schedule is. If you can find a 1/2 marathon program that is mostly 3 days of running and incorporates "cross training" then fill that in w/your biking.

For me, the biking endurance is easier. I can do just a few LONG days in the saddle and be fine. Running, mileage increase needs to be slow and you do trash your legs more...so an easy ride day before and rest or easy ride day after.

Just my 2 cents worth!

I'll be sorta doing similar...training for Sept. tri, then Oct "bike vacation" so lots of miles and MOUNTAINS and the my marathon is not til Feb. But I'll have to keep running, at least slow mileage. But it is do-able. I am not fast or competitive--and I know finishing the run is tougher for me.

As for one helping the other. I don't think biking helps with running--it may help your aerobic capacity and it is a good "active rest" day. But running helps running. (my opinion).

[colby]

Usually riding counts for running and vice-versa as far as endurance goes, but not as far as muscle-specific development goes (you'd also need to ride farther to count for the same running endurance, which actually benefits your situation since you're training for a MUCH longer ride than you are run). You still want to do both, but if you're doing a long ride/long run, it will benefit both disciplines.

For triathlons, I do long rides one day and long runs the other day - but it's different because you plan on doing them in succession, so you kind of "want" that "legs are tired" feeling. You could put a rest day inbetween the two if you wanted to do them both in the same weekend. Something ilke:

Mon - short ride
Tues - short run
Wed - short ride (or intervals, hills, etc)
Thur - short run (or intervals, hills, etc)
Fri - long ride
Sat - off
Sun - long run
Mon - short ride
etc

I find that riding after a long run is easier than running after a long ride.

I have done it the other way, too - rest day before your long ride/run days rather than after. I've never been able to split them because I've always been triathlon training and I need to do it on the weekends.

I also agree that you could consider a short ride/long run and short run/long ride variation that alternated every other week. Since you're building endurance either way and don't intend to do them both in one day (or back to back), you'll be benefiting yourself a lot. It would suck to over-train and miss both targets - or be too exhausted to do the half marathon after your ride.

[KSH]

So when you say long ride or long run... what range might those distances be?

I really don't see an issue with having those back to back. That's what I did during IM training. Now, I won't lie, it was HARD to get up and run sometimes on Sunday, but once I got going I was fine.

You might feel some soreness and fatigue when you start doing these back to back, but your body will adapt. You just can't give in to the soreness or feeling tired. Have to push through it.

But with half marathon training.. you longest run will be.... 13 miles? Or less?

It's doable.

You could also work on making sure you don't have too long of a run on Sunday after high mileage on the bike Saturday.

OH! And if you sit down and write out a training plan, you will probably find that you won't start doing really high miles running until later in the bike training... when that taper hits.

Have you written out a plan for miles on each of these days? I think if you do, you will find that the two will work together nicely based on when they are.

For instance, I was able to put marathon training on my calendar with my Half Ironman training. My Half IM is end of October and my mary is the first week in December. Works out perfectly. The high miles for running doesn't start till after my Half IM!

The key is creating a calendar and putting a plan on it.

[indigoiis]

You're right - when I put it on a calendar it is completely reasonable. My long Saturday riding distances are all at like, 25/35 for this month (although I usually do more since I ride with a club...) and my long runs don't gear up past 5 miles until after August. By then I should be acclimated pretty well.

I am also going away for a week in August but will hike and run while I'm away... won't be doing any biking. No biggie.

[OakLeaf]

my long runs don't gear up past 5 miles until after August. By then I should be acclimated pretty well.

So you're planning to almost triple your mileage in a month and a half? That sounds a little excessive.

It seems to me, the more you can front-load the training and make it a gradual build, the less chance you'll have of injuries... or of being thrown completely off track by some unforeseen glitch late in your schedule.

But what do I know, this is all new to me too. :rolleyes:

Personally, right at the moment my hilly long run is 10 miles and I just rode my first 100 of the year, which was pretty flat (about 3300 feet total gain). I've done 70-80 mile rides that have been pretty hilly, but not as hilly as CFC, and not on consecutive days. I'm fairly confident about the flat half-mary, but I'm kind of stressing about the ride.