TDF Discussion - here be spoilers [Archive] - Page 2 - Women's Cycling Discussion Forums

Aggie_Ama

07-25-2009, 03:57 AM

Purely because of my own personal bias against Contador which, like pretty much any other opinion here, is based only on what I've read in the press and seen in race coverage. The guy's shown he's a powerful rider, but I have trouble imagining him as a good fit for that team. "Otre preguntas" is not standard Garmin operating procedure.

But who knows? Either it is only a rumor or, if it's fact, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I hope it is a rumor because I really don't know what it is but I don't like Contador. I didn't when he won the first time but I can't figure out why. He is a fanatastic rider but he has been dogged by doping rumors more than once, I don't think he is a fit for the boys in Argyle. Maybe it is a cultural difference but his evasive nature and self-serving riding style isn't the type of attitude Garmin built the last couple years.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-25-2009, 07:24 AM

Let me just jump right into the frey here... I don't think ANY team is big enough for Alberto's ego.

Sure he's a great rider.. very strong (no matter where it comes from - heart or whatever).. I think he's a drain on any team's spirit due to his self-serving attitude. He doesn't ride very smart...and sure doesn't look like he makes many friends - - even in his own team.

Without Bruneyeell (sp), I wonder how well he'll do.

papaver

07-25-2009, 07:31 AM

I guess you haven't seen today's ride. But Contador was the perfect teammate for Armstrong.

and where would Armstrong be without Bruyneel? Would he have won seven TDF's, I don't think so. And Armstrong knows that all too well. Bruyneel is the best tactitian out there.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-25-2009, 07:34 AM

I have seen it.. watched it live. The fact he didn't ride away with the stage today does not take away (for me) what he's done the last 3weeks.

He gave a little respect back to Lance. Great. Lance rode incredibly well today though - don't take that away from him.

edit:
Missed your added part about Bruyneel.. I did not say anything that he didn't help MAKE Lance as well. I'm just sayin... that after his actions at this Tour.. not so sure they'll (AC/Bruyneel) be together much longer. AC is young and has much to learn.

papaver

07-25-2009, 07:38 AM

I have seen it.. watched it live. The fact he didn't ride away with the stage today does not take away (for me) what he's done the last 3weeks.

He gave a little respect back to Lance. Great. Lance rode incredibly well today though - don't take that away from him.

Yes but everybody seems to forget what lance did the first week. Really weird. People obviously see want they want to see. He ordered Levi to leave AC behind. And that isn't much team spirit either.

Of course Lance's performance today was great. No question about that. But I'm getting kinda tired of people saying that AC is not a team player. His team wasn't behind him in the first place, thanks to lance.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-25-2009, 07:39 AM

You make good points.

papaver

07-25-2009, 07:43 AM

But hey, I find Lance's performance really incredible. But i'm more proud of Jurgen Van Den Broeck. :D

He is just a helper for Cadel Evans and if he didn't fell during the team TT he would have been on 8th place. Such a shame. :(

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-25-2009, 07:48 AM

papaver

07-25-2009, 08:36 AM

True. There was more than one or two 'poor luck' situations this year, yes?

Not to stick on the Astana team, I'm kinda wondering how Levi would have fared without his broken wrist.. (boo).

I haven't read through the whole thread yet..what the heck happened to Sastre? It was really strange not to see him AND Evans ' up there ' in GC.

Cadel had one very bad day and from then on it all went downhill. I guess something snapped in his head. He just didn't have the moral anymore. Sastre, well... i don't know... he was irritated most of the time. First he wasn't allowed to start in yellow, then they missed his start in the first TT, he was ignored by the press...

lunacycles

07-25-2009, 09:08 AM

If you just listen to Phil and Paul--or any of the versus crew--you would think the only person who matters in the race is Lance. Lance is great, good on him, blah blah blah, but the U.S. press has completely ignored Contador, especially compared to Lance. Bruyneel wanted Lance to win, the leadership of the team was disputed and created a giant media distraction even though Contador had EARNED it by winning 4 grand tours in the last year, and Contador simply did his job for his team, sponsor, and yes, self, by winning. I am really impressed by Lance and what he has achieved this year and in the last decade, but credit to Contador should be given. He had to overcome a lot to win the tour this year and he did so convincingly.

Did you know Contador also returned to top level racing after suffering a life-threatening injury? You wouldn't know by watching American T.V. cuz it is all lance all the time.

I don't have any opinions, though.:rolleyes: It's a great race and distraction during the month of July.

berkeley

07-25-2009, 09:33 AM

The crowds today were pretty amazing.

Contador for some reason reminds me of Skinner from Ratatouille. Except without the big hat.
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/chef.jpg

jobob

07-25-2009, 09:50 AM

ITA with Margo & papaver's opinions (or Margo's non-opinion ;) )

I don't see why Contador deserves all this flak about being evasive and self-serving and not a team player.

Sure, those of us in the US see it mostly through Versus' highly selective filter, and Bob Roll in particular (along with Paul and Phil, who I suspect know better, but they also know where their paychecks come from) has been nauseatingly rah-rah Lance for the last three weeks.

But Contador has had little to no opportunity to speak for himself -- shame on him for not being fluent in English on the American-Kazahk-Belgian-American Astana squad, yeesh! :rolleyes: -- and face it, everything that was said on Versus and in the mainstream American-centered press was for the benefit and glorification of Lance, and Contador was simply in the way of that.

Contador was the undisputed leader of team Astana until Lance decided to sashay back in, so of course Contador must have felt the rug was pulled out from under him. Why wouldn't he?

And what's this evasive stuff?? He doesn't speak very much English for cryin' out loud, plus the American media didn't care about him at all -- that was obvious -- the media only cared about the ridiculously trumped-up "rivalry" between him and Lance. So can you blame Contador for thinking this was for the birds, and making a few moves to show early on who was "boss" (to use Lance-centric lingo :rolleyes: ) ? And naturally he got all sorts of crap for that. Of course, were it Lance to make such moves, we would have been treated to the usual Lance is the "Patron" BS that we in the US are so accustomed to hearing. Hell, the Versus boys made a huge deal over Lance getting into those gaps and gaining a few seconds on his rivals -- including his teammates-- good lord they were going absolutely gah gah over those four seconds Lance gained yesterday, yeesh.

Anyhow, Lance did a fabulous job today, kudos to him, he actually lived up to all the compliments he received today. That was a thrilling stage.

What on earth happened to Sastre? :confused:

denda

07-25-2009, 11:43 AM

I really enjoyed the Tour this year. I'm not a Lance fan, but you have to admit it made it more interesting to watch, because most people watching were either cheering for him or cheering against him.
I don't blame Contador for anything he did or didn't do during the race, and in the end I was glad Lance did as well as he did. It was pretty amazing.

Thorn

07-25-2009, 12:04 PM

OK, maybe Contador didn't play the team tactics when he dropped Kloden, but perhaps he was just doing a CYA. As many have said, he hasn't gotten the press and support a 4-time (soon to be 5) grand tour winner deserves.

But, my favorite line of the sadly, uninformed American came in the first week. We were on vacation and only got snippets of the Tour. Shortly after the Andorra finish, two of the guys got information that they shared with us--"Lance is in third by 8 seconds and there is a non-name Italian and no-name Spaniard in first and second."

OK, I didn't recognize Nocentini either, but Contador was a "no-name Spaniard"? Egads....perhaps I spend too much time watching bicycle racing, but clearly the American sports machine doesn't do much to educate the American cycling public to anyone other than Lance, Lance, Lance--can some even name just one other rider in the peleton????

Running Mommy

07-25-2009, 12:08 PM

I am so on the fence here...

Back when Contador won I was happy for the team, but he came across to me as being a bit arrogant. I actually thought maybe it was a cultural thing, and that maybe I was just not accustomed to his mannerisms.

When Astana was excluded from the tour last year I was livid. I actually boycotted it and couldn't tell you who won. I felt bad for both Alberto and Levi. I thought it was a shiesty move by the tour officials.

When Lance announced he was coming back I wasn't all that happy. I loved watching him back in the day. But I just wanted to remember him the way he was, and was concerned that he would have lost some of his luster.
I was also not pleased to see him wedge his way back on to Astana. They were already a cohesive team, and I knew it was going to end up the way it did.
As the tour unfolded I was not happy with Contador. His lack of deference for the team seemed very selfish to me. But after reading some of the posts here I realized that all wasn't as it seemed, and that I needed to look at it from a wider view.

But as I sit here now I have very mixed emotions. While I can't deny that AC is a huge talent, I'm still not all that fond of him. I can't pin it down, but it really has nothing to do with Lance. And I'm very curious as to what team colors he will be wearing next year. I think a spanish team like Euskatel would be a good fit for him. Perhaps a team that doesn't already have a gc contender.
It will be interesting to see the roster for radio shack, and also whether or not they get a tour bid. You never know, it's not a guarantee.

I did enjoy todays stage. But I have always loved the tours that they ride ventoux. It is a favorite of mine.

KnottedYet

07-25-2009, 12:12 PM

As I keep hearing from the jaded VS crowd, "Tour de Lance."

Gee, I wish I'd invented that phrase...

I really like getting my TdF from www.letour.fr and from Tour Day Schmalz, just cuz I get to avoid the "Tour de Lance" syndrome.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-25-2009, 12:36 PM

Today was the first time I'd heard that Alberto had been in a life-threatening health situation years-ago. Maybe I'd heard it before while watching him in the '07 TdF..not sure. Anyway VS had a video story during today's stage...

There's no disputing the guy is gifted. Yeah VS has been very pro-Lance.. and I kinda have to agree a bit with Running Mommy. I was a bit jaded on LA in the beginning days after his announcement to return. However, I cannot dis-like the man.. he's 2yrs younger than me and has accomplished a great deal. He's taken the hand he was dealt and turned it way-around for so many worldwide.

There just seems to be something unfriendly about AC. I don't know what it is. I can totally understand how he'd feel the rug was pulled out from under him right when he's ready to retake the Tour. The classy thing to do would have been to take that and work with it. Its not like anyone cut him off at the knees. Not saying I would've liked it either, but I want to keep my job and get more work later. The guy is still young...but talent like his (or Lance's) doesn't last forever.

Lord knows in the times we have now, we shouldn't p*ss in the pool.. don't burn bridges. Know what I mean?

This has been a very exciting Tour to watch...Andy Schlek is definitely one to watch...and I'd put money on seeing more of Tony Martin next yr too.

Hey - how about the mouth on Cav? Heard he apologized to Thor when they were waiting on the podiums yesterday. Got a little humility after all. ;)

papaver

07-25-2009, 01:15 PM

cav and thor kissed and made up. They even had a little sprint today for 104th and 105th place. :D

pll

07-25-2009, 01:58 PM

Maybe the views of Contador as evasive and unfriendly have to do with his media exposure in the US/UK, through the lens of pro-Lance Versus, without a command of English? In interviews in Spanish, he sounds quite humble and shy.

I think Contador did what he needed to do to win the tour -- nobody should fault him for that.

As for joining Garmin, it'd be interesting to see if it works out. I hope we don't have any post tour doping 'surprises'. Contador's 'proximity' to doping (witness in Operacion Puerto) is not any worse than Armstrong and US Postal being clients of Michele Ferrari, aka Dottore Sangue.

tan1a

07-25-2009, 03:08 PM

my 10 cents worth from down here in Kiwiland - have loved seeing Hayden Roulston in a couple of breakaways, he's done an awesome job in his first tour. Watch out for him next year :)

tulip

07-25-2009, 04:18 PM

I've been watching on both Versus and Eurosport (UK and France). So glad I have some other options to get more well-rounded coverage.

Zen

07-25-2009, 05:22 PM

Watching the Versus rebroadcast someone interviewing Prince Lance just called AC a "loose cannon" :mad: :mad: :mad:
Biased much?

redrhodie

07-25-2009, 05:29 PM

Watching the Versus rebroadcast someone interviewing Prince Lance just called AC a "loose cannon" :mad: :mad: :mad:
Biased much?

Pretty sure that was Robbie Ventura, not Lance.

It's definitely interesting to ponder where AC will end up. I think if he ends up at Garmin, it's going to be really bad for Tyler Farrar, because the team won't work for the sprints with a great GC contender like Contador. Remember Robbie McEwen with Cadel? Not good.

I think he'd be perfect on Caisse d'Epargne. Rabobank could use him, too.

edit, misread Zen.

Trekhawk

07-25-2009, 05:41 PM

What a great stage. I really enjoyed watching the tousel between the top GC guys. I think Bradley Wiggins did a great job and will be one to watch at the next tour. When he started the tour he was hoping to make it into the top 20 so he must be beside himself with his result.

Enjoyed watching Franco Pellizotti during this tour and glad he held his polka dot jersey.

Yay for Lance! I was never a big fan but he seems to be growing on me. Lots of the press over here before the Tour said that he was past it and would not be a threat to the top guys. I guess that made me want to see him prove them wrong.

Sure does make for an interesting Tour.
Looking forward to 2010.:)

endurancerider

07-25-2009, 06:26 PM

slam dunk for Contador. But we do have some people to watch--definitely Wiggins, and Lance (again), plus Andy Schleck...

Zen

07-25-2009, 07:15 PM

And Tony Martin.

papaver

07-25-2009, 09:45 PM

And Tony Martin.

especially him.

cylegoddess

07-26-2009, 02:09 AM

Ladies your giving our commentators here in Oz a run for their money! I wish I had you all live when the tour was on:)
'That Andy Schleck ,if only I was 19 years old...'
Me too, and anyone else... still
As in earlier, Ill fight you for him!:p
__________________
I think I may have posted this but BF said," ... schlecks ; I love them and want to have their babies!" I'll fight HIM for them!!

chutch

07-26-2009, 05:30 AM

When Lance was being interviewed yesterday, he said something to the effect of he'd ride his race and Alberto can ride his race... if any of Lance's teammates from his 7 victories had said something like that they'd be totally reprimanded for not supporting the team leader.

I have been a big Lance fan in the past. But my feelings about him have totally changed this year. He came into the Tour with a big chip on his shoulder. It's frustrating because I expected him to be a bigger person.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-26-2009, 05:36 AM

He came into the Tour with a big chip on his shoulder.

I'm sorry.. what chip is that?

jobob

07-26-2009, 11:08 AM

slam dunk for Contador. But we do have some people to watch--definitely Wiggins, and Lance (again), plus Andy Schleck...

And Tony Martin.

Yes, lots of new & old faces to root for. It'll be excellent.

And "Chicago's Christian VanDeVelde" (I didn't know VDV changed his name :D) -- hopefully he returns to top form.

It was interesting to watch the dynamics of the various teams and how they varied depending on the types of contenders they had in the race.

Columbia clearly put its top priority into the sprinter's/green jersey race and had no significant GC contenders.

And Astana had no sprinters, it was all about the GC for them. As with Saxo Bank, as far as I could tell.

The teams that tried to do both had a rough go of it - I'm thinking of Garmin and Cervelo in that regard, among others of course (though Thor smash lucked out with the relegation of Cavendish). It seems to be really successful in either the GC or the green nowadays, a team has to be speciallized for either one or the other.

spazzdog

07-26-2009, 11:59 AM

With the past "enhancement" contoversies and this years LeMond pissiness re: Contador, I got to thinking (always dangerous)... so I pulled out my stats from past tours and looked at distance/time (total) of each champion's last win compared to this year. Here's what I got - tell me what you think (be nice :D. I have a little trouble with math & time )

Lance 2005 3608 km/86:15:02 2009 3459.5 km/85:53:59
He was about 21min 2sec faster this yr over a course 148.5 km shorter

Contador 2007 3550 km/91:00:23 2009 3459.5 km/85:48:35
He was about 5hr 12min faster this yr over a course 90.5 km shorter

Sastre 2008 3558.5 km/87:52:52 2009 3459.5 km/86:14:56
He was about 1hr 38 min faster this yr over a course 99 km shorter

Now I know I didn't include "difficulty" in this - I don't know how. That aside, do any of these look "interesting" in the "improvement" category?

I'm just sayin'...

your ever-lovin' spazzdog

papaver

07-26-2009, 12:07 PM

spazzdog, you really can't compare those. This tour was not as hard as previous years.

Jones

07-26-2009, 03:29 PM

[QUOTE=Running Mommy;449321]I am so on the fence here...

Back when Contador won I was happy for the team, but he came across to me as being a bit arrogant. I actually thought maybe it was a cultural thing, and that maybe I was just not accustomed to his mannerisms.

When Astana was excluded from the tour last year I was livid. I actually boycotted it and couldn't tell you who won. I felt bad for both Alberto and Levi. I thought it was a shiesty move by the tour officials.

When Lance announced he was coming back I wasn't all that happy. I loved watching him back in the day. But I just wanted to remember him the way he was, and was concerned that he would have lost some of his luster.
I was also not pleased to see him wedge his way back on to Astana. They were already a cohesive team, and I knew it was going to end up the way it did.
As the tour unfolded I was not happy with Contador. His lack of deference for the team seemed very selfish to me. But after reading some of the posts here I realized that all wasn't as it seemed, and that I needed to look at it from a wider view.

But as I sit here now I have very mixed emotions. While I can't deny that AC is a huge talent, I'm still not all that fond of him. I can't pin it down, but it really has nothing to do with Lance. And I'm very curious as to what team colors he will be wearing next year. I think a spanish team like Euskatel would be a good fit for him. Perhaps a team that doesn't already have a gc contender.
It will be interesting to see the roster for radio shack, and also whether or not they get a tour bid. You never know, it's not a guarantee.
QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more and I absolutely hate the pistol shooting thing when AC wins a stage.

Trek420

07-26-2009, 03:51 PM

Dogmama

07-26-2009, 07:12 PM

Lance 2005 3608 km/86:15:02 2009 3459.5 km/85:53:59
He was about 21min 2sec faster this yr over a course 148.5 km shorter

Contador 2007 3550 km/91:00:23 2009 3459.5 km/85:48:35
He was about 5hr 12min faster this yr over a course 90.5 km shorter

Sastre 2008 3558.5 km/87:52:52 2009 3459.5 km/86:14:56
He was about 1hr 38 min faster this yr over a course 99 km shorter

Now I know I didn't include "difficulty" in this - I don't know how. That aside, do any of these look "interesting" in the "improvement" category?

I'm just sayin'...

your ever-lovin' spazzdog

Hmmm-even with difficulty figured in - that is one heck-uv-an improvement.

Can you say "Andy Schlek - default winner?" C'mon - I know you can!;)

Anybody read From Lance to Landis? My physical therapist and I had many long conversations about doping. He bets everything he has that there is doping in the tour. You have to admit - some of those break aways that AC did were reminiscent of Landis. Schlek did a fair share too - but AC had several days of incredible bursts of speed.

For the sake of the sport, I hope I'm wrong. Maybe AC got his mojo going in a big way. I sure hope so.

Imagine - AC and AS both eliminated for doping. Lance is the winner.

Trek420

07-26-2009, 07:52 PM

I hope not. I could not help but notice I felt Versus practically ignored AS. It's as if there was only 1st and 3rd place. "Alberto Contador wins the Tour and Lance Armstrong takes 3rd"

'scuse me? There's a spot in between? :confused:

Dogmama

07-26-2009, 08:10 PM

VS was really bad this year. Usually I like Bob Roll - but I felt like I'd been "lanced" after 15 minutes (bad, I know.) He didn't even say Tour Day Fraance - I heard he stopped his feud with the French & decided to acquiesce to the correct pronunciation.

I kept wanting Andy to quit turning around to find his brother and ride his dam bike! Aren't there 12-step meetings for people like that??

papaver

07-27-2009, 12:41 AM

Talking about teamspirit. One of our reporters asked Lance yesterday if he was going to have dinner with his teammates that evening. (this is a tradition that they have a sort of thank you dinner with the teammates). And he said no, I'm having dinner with RadioShack. :eek:

Oh well, we have seen an entertaining Tour (except for the second week). Some great wins (Cavendish 6 times!!!), a great winner overal, a splendid comeback, some new talent (Tony Martin, Jurgen VDB), some bad luck (Levi, Jens...). I loved it!

chutch

07-27-2009, 04:48 AM

I'm sorry.. what chip is that?

Just his general attitude through the tour. It's not been that of a true team member and it's not reminiscent of Lance pre-retirement.

7rider

07-27-2009, 05:00 AM

VS was really bad this year.

At least not every other commercial was some "male enhancement" product like you get on Universal Sports bike coverage. :rolleyes:

Like many others, I have mixed feelings about Contodor. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and to be a grand tour winner, you must tread it every day. Lance had/has it. Levi (bless his soul...I love the man) doesn't. That's why he's my source of perpetual frustration and he will always play second fiddle at the grand tours.

tulip

07-27-2009, 05:16 AM

The French actually kinda liked Lance this year. Interesting.

Contador's done more than Lance ever has and ever will: he's won the Giro, Tour, and Vuelta.

I'm not anti-Lance--he had an amazing race this year--but I'm absolutely disgusted by the coverage by Versus because it was focused almost exclusively on Lance. There are many great riders (and a few great American riders if that's their argument) who are deserving of coverage.

ivorygorgon

07-27-2009, 05:27 AM

So where do the riders get the matching accessories for the different winning jerseys? Do they just carry a stash around in case they win?

Fredwina

07-27-2009, 07:26 AM

I think that goes back about 10 yearx to Mario Cipolinni(sp) :drool. He had a yellow bike, Handlebar tape, tires, etc
The used to fine riders for having an 'irregular' uniform
And I think does take some advanced planning on the parts of the manufacters, teams, and rider.
Mark Cavendish had a Green power meter, and did you notice the Color of Lance's bike in the final TT?:)

redrhodie

07-27-2009, 07:54 AM

And how did Liquigas manage to have a polka-dot bike, but not a matching helmet?

Fredwina

07-27-2009, 09:03 AM

maybe thier helmet supplier isn't as on the ball as thier bike supplier;)

katluvr

07-27-2009, 09:57 AM

And how did Liquigas manage to have a polka-dot bike, but not a matching helmet?

My exact question/issue.
Loved the bike...but that helmet stood out like a sore thumb! :eek:

SadieKate

07-27-2009, 09:58 AM

. . . and did you notice the Color of Lance's bike in the final TT?:)

Lance rode a collection of custom-painted "art bikes" which will be in a traveling exhibit and then auctioned.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/stages

spazzdog

07-27-2009, 10:39 AM

Well, I think the pistol shooting is cultural. It's not playful exactly but here in the States so much more is read into it. I'm not sure of the Spanish perspective.

When it comes to athletes we don't necessarily have to like them for them to be good. He's a two time TdF winner! He's an exceptional talent.

We can't have hero Lance forever. Long live the Tour. :D

I went looking for translation of "contador" to see if maybe there was some marksman kind of reference. Alas, the meaning of "contador" is accountant or bookkeeper... i'm guessing the mimicry of typing numbers into an adding machine as a finish gesture wouldn't do ;)

spazzdog

07-27-2009, 10:45 AM

At least not every other commercial was some "male enhancement" product like you get on Universal Sports bike coverage. :rolleyes:

Like many others, I have mixed feelings about Contodor. There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance, and to be a grand tour winner, you must tread it every day. Lance had/has it. Levi (bless his soul...I love the man) doesn't. That's why he's my source of perpetual frustration and he will always play second fiddle at the grand tours.

Oh yes 7rider - we got those very commercials; every one of 'em :(
As to the coverage, VS is an American station and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Lance owns a piece of them (speculation). They always pay huge attention to the US riders, wherever they are in the GC. Same with other networks during, say, the Olympics. I'm sure in England or Spain or where ever, their home commentators spoke mostly about their nations riders.

SadieKate

07-27-2009, 10:56 AM

My exact question/issue.
Loved the bike...but that helmet stood out like a sore thumb! :eek:Even if it is garish, I prefer that the riders keep their team colors where they can. This is a team event, his team has to be able to find him, and Liquigas wants him easily identifiable as a Liquigas-sponsored rider.

Trek420

07-27-2009, 12:44 PM

I went looking for translation of "contador" to see if maybe there was some marksman kind of reference. Alas, the meaning of "contador" is accountant or bookkeeper... i'm guessing the mimicry of typing numbers into an adding machine as a finish gesture wouldn't do ;)

Maybe it's the gesture of an IRS auditor "gotcha!! I just knew you don't have reciepts for those donations!" ;) :p :D

[QUOTE=7rider;449758]At least not every other commercial was some "male enhancement" product like you get on Universal Sports bike coverage. :rolleyes:QUOTE]

That's a whole nother thread "what was your least favorite commercial of the Tour" ;)

pll

07-27-2009, 04:01 PM

Anyone else suffering from tour withdrawal?

Watching the tour was fun this year and it certainly looks promising for the next one. I wish the riders would limit themselves to riding instead if the current 'war of words'... neither Contador nor Armstrong are being classy in this matter. (and I hate Contador's pistol salute, too; I hate any silly, rehearsed, salute).

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 04:11 PM

We've got us a good ol fashioned pi**ing match, girls!

Any of you following on Twitter?? LMAO... Sorry.. I know its silly, but I'm loving this...

lancearmstrong: Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win.
Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/2878598422

lancearmstrong: hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/2878615861

DOHHHHHH. Again - sorry.. I love it when people call it like they see it. I don't even know if AC is ON Twitter... but I don't 100% follow espanol anymore anyway.. Surely one of you gals does?? We need the other side here...

tulip

07-27-2009, 04:14 PM

Well, Cavendish has his phone call salute to his girlfriend...they all have some sort of gesture. I was most impressed with the German guy--Heinrich somebody? He was so moved by winning, he was crying. But then again, I am a girl.

pll

07-27-2009, 04:23 PM

spazzdog

07-27-2009, 04:29 PM

And there's the guy that does the "shooting an arrow" bit... is that Flecha?

As to the flying dirt vis-a-vis Twitter, Velonews... I find it interesting that AC states he "has never had a great admiration for him (LA) and never will."

I believe back in 2007, Contador was interviewed and was slobbering all over himself about how great a mentor LA was.

It was a bone headed idea to try and put those 2 on the same team... WAY too much ego at the dinner table. LA got his dander up and AC got his feelers hurt. Good thing the team didn't just implode...

pll

07-27-2009, 04:40 PM

The other side...

Contador does not "twitt" and made some remarks in a press conference. Asked about his relation with Armstrong and whether he had anything to tell Armstrong (whom he considered an inspiration when he was recovering from the surgeries to deal with a cavernous haemangioma), he congratulated him about the third place. He considers him a great champion with an amazing performance in the tour but, at the personal level, his relation with him is non existent. He also said he never idolized him personally and won't do in the future, either. He mentioned that dealing with the tension in the hotel was almost harder than the race itself.

There are some video clips in RTVE and in El Pais. I think the less I hear from any of them, the better... I cannot stand Armstrong pretending to be a selfless team mate, especially when he directed the team to drop Contador in the third stage of the tour and has been constantly critical of him in the media. It all sounds like high school bullying to me. At least Contador did not speak about it until *after* the tour.

We've got us a good ol fashioned pi**ing match, girls!

Any of you following on Twitter?? LMAO... Sorry.. I know its silly, but I'm loving this...

lancearmstrong: Seeing these comments from AC. If I were him I'd drop this drivel and start thanking his team. w/o them, he doesn't win.
Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/2878598422

lancearmstrong: hey pistolero, there is no "i" in "team". what did i say in March? Lots to learn. Restated.
Original Tweet: http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong/status/2878615861

DOHHHHHH. Again - sorry.. I love it when people call it like they see it. I don't even know if AC is ON Twitter... but I don't 100% follow espanol anymore anyway.. Surely one of you gals does?? We need the other side here...

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 04:42 PM

I liked Haussler's (sp - sorry) win as well.. very emotional.

P.S. Sorry I was having a little too much enjoyment out of seeing the sudden spewing of emotions via Twitter. I guess it was inevitable it'd happen after everything...but I just want to apologize to my friends here for my own sponanteous posting. Ugh...

15 min later, I'm hoping they kiss and make up soon. No good will come of an extended p-match. Nobody looks good.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 04:46 PM

Guess I was posting my mea culpa when you were posting pll.

Thank you for posting more info on what AC was saying. I agree with you (after letting my own HS chanting die off)..feeling a bit silly.. but anyway...

Glad this is an international forum. Our media here is wayyyyy too one-sided.

pll

07-27-2009, 04:46 PM

I'll say that Armstrong's idea of auctioning the bikes he rode in the Giro and the Tour for charity is a brilliant one.

Zen

07-27-2009, 05:33 PM

lance should step AWAY from the twitter!
A little humility goes a long way.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 05:37 PM

lance should step AWAY from the twitter!
A little humility goes a long way.

Yes and the same goes for AC. (humility, shutting it, and maybe thanking his team - haven't heard he's done that)

tulip

07-27-2009, 05:46 PM

Twitter can only be bad...unfortunately it encourages people to twit before they think. I can't think of much good that comes from twitter.

Flecha does the arrow because his name means arrow,but you probably already knew that. If I had a cool name that meant something, I'd probably do that too, but not in a bike race because it would be highly unlikely that I would win. :o

pll said it best.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 05:50 PM

Twitter can only be bad...unfortunately it encourages people to twit before they think. I can't think of much good that comes from twitter.

Yep..and yep. Been there (obviously) ;)

Hey - but other than LA and that drama, there were VERY cool tweets from George Hincapie, Mark Renshaw, Levi, Phil Liggett, and Mick Rogers... among others.. some fun pictures to boot! Twitter's not all bad, gfs.
Insider info on inner workings of (well-oiled) teams.. funny moments.. etc...

Zen

07-27-2009, 08:14 PM

Dave Z's latest tweet-

"Finally (http://twitter.com/dzabriskie)"

His are so much more entertaining that that other guys.

BabyBlueNTulsa

07-27-2009, 08:19 PM

Hee hee... yeah - his are often really funny too.

Loved Renshaw's sleeping pics of Cav. Looked so peaceful after Ventoux.. completely spent.

papaver

07-27-2009, 10:29 PM

I respected Lance but reading his Twits... man how old are you? Twelve????

Aggie_Ama

07-28-2009, 03:58 AM

Lance and AC both need to grow up, but hey it is kind of funny. They both act like little kids who keep hitting each other on the playground after you try to separate them. :p

I thought Cavendish was "phoning home" a salute to the new HTC sponsor, I believe it is a phone company? His salutes are kinda silly. My favorite will forever be McEwen's running man. I saw an interview once where he claimed it was almost a dare from Levi. Something like they were trying to make up creative ones and that came out of it.

papaver

07-28-2009, 04:27 AM

I thought Cavendish was "phoning home" a salute to the new HTC sponsor, I believe it is a phone company?

No that was to his girlfriend. That day they couldn't phone each other...

And true Aggie Ama, they both are acting like little kids...

redrhodie

07-28-2009, 04:28 AM

No big surprise, George's collarbone is broken. He's one tough dude.

papaver

07-28-2009, 04:29 AM

No big surprise, George's collarbone is broken. He's one tough dude.

when did this happen?

Aggie_Ama

07-28-2009, 04:39 AM

when did this happen?

I think it happened the stage before the time trial. He refused X-Rays until he got to Paris. I assume he wasn't abandoning with Paris so close. I was hoping he would take the National Champion race, I wonder if he will heal in time?

chutch

07-28-2009, 05:57 AM

lance should step AWAY from the twitter!
A little humility goes a long way.

Agreed, those tweets were unnecessary. Both are coming across negatively. The Tour is over, you're going your separate ways, move on. You can debate this next July- by letting your riding do the talking.

redrhodie

07-28-2009, 05:34 PM

Agreed, those tweets were unnecessary. Both are coming across negatively. The Tour is over, you're going your separate ways, move on. You can debate this next July- by letting your riding do the talking.

I love it. It reminds me Hinault/Lemond. Or "Pumping Iron" or Ali-Frazier. This is a rivalry for history books. Trash-talk has its place.

If only Howard Cosell were still alive. Boy, I'm really dating myself!

Kalidurga

07-29-2009, 02:09 AM

I love it. It reminds me Hinault/Lemond. Or "Pumping Iron" or Ali-Frazier. This is a rivalry for history books. Trash-talk has its place.

If only Howard Cosell were still alive. Boy, I'm really dating myself!

I've loved it too. Sure, much of it has been childish, but it adds elements of both drama and humor. The race itself is exciting but, really, how much can you talk about someone's acceleration at the line or how they flew down a descent? It's the crashes and the trash-talk and the strategical intrigue that make it really fun.

tulip

07-29-2009, 04:54 AM

I love it. It reminds me Hinault/Lemond. Or "Pumping Iron" or Ali-Frazier. This is a rivalry for history books. Trash-talk has its place.

If only Howard Cosell were still alive. Boy, I'm really dating myself!

But at least in the Lemond/Hinault and Lemond/Fignon days, we didn't have twitter to blast the drivel through the universe at light speed. We were lucky to get a 3-inch story in the Sunday paper, in the sports section, right next to the Gentlemen's Club ads and after the Little League reports. There's alot to say for journalistic filtering.

And when did Howard Cosell (I can still hear him say that) pass on? I missed that one, although I haven't heard from him in quite a while.

Kalidurga

07-29-2009, 06:44 AM

But at least in the Lemond/Hinault and Lemond/Fignon days, we didn't have twitter to blast the drivel through the universe at light speed. We were lucky to get a 3-inch story in the Sunday paper, in the sports section, right next to the Gentlemen's Club ads and after the Little League reports. There's alot to say for journalistic filtering.

There is always the option of ignoring it... ;)

tulip

07-29-2009, 07:05 AM

ms pepperpot

07-29-2009, 09:10 AM

They always pay huge attention to the US riders, wherever they are in the GC. Same with other networks during, say, the Olympics. I'm sure in England or Spain or where ever, their home commentators spoke mostly about their nations riders.

That's definitely the case here - Wiggins and Cav have got a lot of coverage (relatively speaking seeing as there isn't a huge amount of tour coverage in general)

I haven't been following them on twitter, but Wiggins has done some nice longer pieces in the Observer over the past couple of weeks

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/26/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jul/19/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france

Kalidurga

07-29-2009, 09:57 AM

Oh, I do, Kalidurga. I don't twit, never have. But it's everywhere I look, and I don't look too hard--just here, CNN, BBC, and occasionally a French newspaper on-line. It's the worst right here and on CNN. But you are right, I can just take a hike.

That's why I enjoy reading the Tour coverage over at NYVelocity. After reading the silliness in the "serious" cycling press, Schmalz helps to put it all into perspective.

Some of you ladies might get a kick out of joining the current debate: http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2009/2009-tour-argument

SadieKate

07-31-2009, 08:33 AM

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/31072009/58/tour-de-france-astarloza-tests-positive-epo.html

spazzdog

07-31-2009, 08:56 AM

and away we go... how high will it reach?

spazz

papaver

07-31-2009, 01:32 PM

hmmm... I had an interesting encounter today with a mechanic from another team who was on the TdF. One night they spent the night at the same hotel as the Astana team. Lance and the team were at the table joking and fooling around. Then Contador came to the table and everybody stopped laughing. They cleared the table as fast as they could... The mechanic told me that the tension was kinda freaky. It was all Lance and Contador really was singled out.

spazzdog

07-31-2009, 03:03 PM

I read about Contador turning down what sounded like a very lucrative offer from Astana (contract extension) with a guarantee he would be leader even if Vino came back... and that he's looking for a new team for 2010 season even though he's under contract to Astana.

Talented he is, but I hope for his sake he gets his ego in check before he makes a big boo-boo. With the exhibition he put on at TdF with regard to "teamwork" he may find no one with the bucks willing to take him (wow! bad sentence - sorry).

spazz

papaver

07-31-2009, 11:19 PM

Dogmama

08-01-2009, 11:36 AM

I wasn't clear here, I think. It was Lance who was in charge and AC was singled out by him. It was all a mindgame. He really wanted to win the TdF and Bruyneel wanted that too and he did everything he could to put AC in discredit. Lance played some very very dirty games. Like ordering the team to leave the hotel without warning AC. So when AC left his room everybody had checked out and he had to reach the start on his own. Luckily his brother could arrange things for him so he managed to get there on time (that was during the 1st stage).

If you know all this, then you can understand AC reactions a little better, I think.

I don't get that. Doesn't Bruyneel work for Astana? And supposed to be running the team? How is Lance in charge? I don't doubt for a minute that that happened. Lance is not a nice person at times.

BTW - I heard on ReachMD that there are some people who do not test positive for the TE marker. I'm a little fuzzy with the details but the upshot is that some people have genetic traits that cover up doping. Not pointing fingers - just thought it was interesting (OK, pointing a little finger..)