Salt in Daily Diet

[shootingstar]

What is the amount of salt recommended for those engaged in several hrs. of vigorous exercise in summer?

Honest, I've never deliberately had salty food for the express reason of a long hot summer bike ride for several hrs. before stopping for the evening. Am referring to some of the self-loaded touring rides I've done over the years. I think my daily diet already has enough salt. Always found it was fluid, some good carbs, etc. But maybe I'm not seeing things right? Already I use a bit of soy sauce vs. the horrifying amount that I see often tv cooking shows or in recipes.

When on a bike trip, at motel/hotel/b 'n b, I figure the cook already has given the meal salt for my ham/sausage, eggs, etc.

Past few days, a series of news articles about the problem of ingesting too much salt in food and not realizing it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/to-curb-salt-cut-the-condiments-read-labels/article1194148/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special-reports/hard-to-shake/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special-reports/hard-to-shake/the-taste-of-things-to-come/article1192703/

[OakLeaf]

Someone who actually knows may chime in :rolleyes: but I think it's very individualized. Not only do people's sweat rates vary hugely, but the amount of salt excreted in sweat varies, too. Even for any given individual, those two things vary over the course of a season with their heat acclimation.

Personally, I had dozens of episodes of mild hyponatremia until I figured out that's what was going on. I find that as with most things food-related, my body will tell me if I let it. The same dish, that I'll have to add more than 1/8 tsp of salt per serving for dinner after a long ride, will taste perfectly fine without added salt as leftovers for lunch the next day.

Unfortunately most people in the developed world are so conditioned by the food industry and the medical-industrial complex to ignore what our bodies are telling us, that it's difficult to learn to listen.

I don't know any method other than trial and error, unless you're willing to get a long series of blood tests pre- and post- exercise. Don't forget that you need to replace calcium and magnesium as well - even if you're already taking a supplement, you need to increase the amount if you're sweating heavily.

[Grog]

It's true that it varies. It would also depend on the temperature, how much fluid you've had to drink (or through IV if you day doesn't end so well!), etc.

On some very long and energetic bike rides on a hot day, I have found myself mildly nauseous and craving salt. Usually a pinch does the trick. Very salty food (hmmmm... poutine! or a hot dog!) also instantly makes me feel better, but I'm afraid it's overkill.

[shootingstar]

The lst article link is written by a registered dietician who writes a regular column on nutrition. An excerpt:
Healthy adults need 1,500 milligrams of sodium per day, and the upper daily sodium limit is 2,300 milligrams.

So, what are the symptoms when one lacks salt on a very hot, multiple-hrs. long summer bike ride?

All I've every felt is dehydration or bonking..both which I've found solutions over the years.

My brain is trying to wrap around the old past where there were more farming folk toiling in the fields. No doubt some of them might have fainted or had certain symptoms, but those were the days of no specialzied energy drinks,etc. I mean world-wide there were many farmers working many hrs. under hot sun/heat, surely their diets did not contain alot more salt than what we have today in our meals (if we blissfully ignore the sodium hidden in our food).

Anyway, I may sweat but not necessarily in same way as others. :confused:

[OakLeaf]

So, what are the symptoms when one lacks salt on a very hot, multiple-hrs. long summer bike ride?

I get nausea, to the point where I can barely stand to even put anything in my mouth (water included). Usually the tip-off for me is that I'll be able to eat breakfast each day, but it'll get worse as the day goes on. But any more, I don't even wait for it to get to that point. Any time I'm nauseous, I just assume I'm hyponatremic and drink a couple of liters of sports drink (which, unlike water, will go down), and nine times out of ten I'll be fine within two hours.

A friend of mine gets a headache.

I've read that it's okay if your sweat isn't salty, since your body may be conserving salt. I'm not sure that's really the case for me though.

The more I listen to my body and have salt when I crave it, the less often I get hyponatremic.

[sarahspins]

I mean world-wide there were many farmers working many hrs. under hot sun/heat, surely their diets did not contain alot more salt than what we have today in our meals (if we blissfully ignore the sodium hidden in our food).

Actually they may very well have been consuming more salt than you'd expect given the lack of what we'd consider "processed" foods back then.. but salt is a preservative, and in the days before electricity thus refrigeration were widely available, most animal meats were cured with salt so they wouldn't go bad.

I would think though, that if your diet is not already excessively high in sodium, craving salt or salty foods is probably a good indicator that your body needs more.

What I've found interesting personally.. is that if I'm not salt deficient, some energy drinks and all electrolyte mixes taste VERY salty... almost to the point of being undrinkable. If I really need the salt though, it's like I can't even taste it, they all seem almost sickly sweet (even the ones with no carbs/sweeteners, like nuun). I usually notice the dizziness/vertigo and nausea that go along with it before I notice the taste thing though... but it has snuck up on me on occasion.

[OakLeaf]

On the history of salt, Mark Kurlansky's book Salt: A World History is a fascinating read. Nowadays salt is so plentiful in the developed world that we pour it all over our roads, and we've forgotten that there was a time when things were different. But the history lingers in place names like Salina, Saltillo, anything with "Lick" in it, etc. Until recently, human history was a quest for salt as much as it was a quest for food and water - mammals, and especially mammals that cool ourselves by sweating, need all three to survive. Think about how animals congregate around exposed salt licks.

[shootingstar]

Actually they may very well have been consuming more salt than you'd expect given the lack of what we'd consider "processed" foods back then.. but salt is a preservative, and in the days before electricity thus refrigeration were widely available, most animal meats were cured with salt so they wouldn't go bad.

I would think though, that if your diet is not already excessively high in sodium, craving salt or salty foods is probably a good indicator that your body needs more.

Good point that salt ages ago was more of a preservative whereas now, it's much more a taste factor, even to induce the palate to want more of the food..for both salty /savoury food and sweet food, where salt is added abit to enhance sweeteness.

Yes, salt was a treasured ages ago like Oak reminded us.

Already based on what I eat daily, probably enough salt already. We have this wonderful blue cheese that is aging strong..and seems to becoming saltier as the weeks march on. So salty, that one can only have slice of a fingertip sliver size to enjoy.

My mother was diagnosed for hypertension 15 yrs. ago and since then, her home cooking has severely cut down on salt/sodium. She was instructed by her doctor and also takes medication.

[OakLeaf]

new strategy, stripping the links out of the spam? (not the first time I've noticed this week, but this is probably the most blatant)

Personally I'd rather have the messages removed entirely... but if this is automated and less work for the mods, then hear, hear. :)

[smilingcat]

new strategy, stripping the links out of the spam? (not the first time I've noticed this week, but this is probably the most blatant)

Personally I'd rather have the messages removed entirely... but if this is automated and less work for the mods, then hear, hear. :)

huh?? what??

Anyway, we excrete salt at our individual rate so guidelines are just guidelines. But definitly learn to listen to your body. I try to stay on low salt diet, well, cause Japanese diet is so high in salt. Now the other day, I had a hunkering for anchovies packed in oil. The uber salty kind. popped open a can and ate the whole thing in one sitting, right in the kitchen no less. The strangest thing was geeze, TJ's anchovies aren't salted. I opened another can about a week later and it tasted SALTY. Listen to your body. My helmet strap will get caked with minerals from my sweat. and I can get a mineral deposit line on my jersey after a long hot ride.

Low on salt and I get cramps, nausea and chills. Drink a sport drink and if it taste sweet get more salt into your system. If it tastes salty then you just dehydrated.

[OakLeaf]

huh?? what??

ha ;) I guess the mods listened to me and pulled the message entirely.

There were a series of messages that went up in the last couple of days that were obviously spam, but had had the links stripped out.

Anyway, gone now. :) Thanks mods.

[sarahspins]

Drink a sport drink and if it taste sweet get more salt into your system. If it tastes salty then you just dehydrated.

I notice this more with something like nuun than with drinks containing sugar (all of those taste sickly sweet since I'm not used to drinking anything with sugar).. but if I need the salt, nuun tastes a little sweet. If I don't need the extra electrolytes, I almost can't stand it because it tastes like drinking flavored salt water... gross :p

[firenze11]

Hm, I was just thinking about this today. I'm training for another 2 day breast cancer walk and last year I'm pretty sure I became hyponatremic or at least had a problem with salt/electrolyte loss. It made me feel really sick and I don't want to feel that again so I've been trying to think of what to do this year.

Anyway I went for about a 5 mile hike/walk up Mont Royal park and took some nuun in my water this time. It tasted pretty good, definitely not salty. But by the time I'd come back home all I could think about was wanting something really salty and right now!

I also have low blood pressure and I tend to crave salt a lot so I just kind of go with it. It is kind of amazing to think back at how precious a commodity salt used to be and how prevalent it is now.

[smilingcat]

shootingstar had posted some links to the "too much salt" article.

I think one of the trick manufacturers use to get you to buy their pre-pkg'ed food is to layer with fat, salt, and sugar to make it yummy. Its not the "umai" yumminess but people have been so conditioned to think fat, salt, and sugar is yummy (blach for me).

All pre-pkg'ed food taste like it's been soaked in the dead sea for few days with all that salt. There is no real flavor except for the fat, sweet, and salty taste. Besides, salt, fat and even sugar is cheap compared to real flavoring, so the manufacturer of the pre-pkg'ed food can bigger their money.

If you want to consume less salt, stop eating all that frozen food. and start cooking a home.

[firenze11]

Just saw this article from the CBC. Saltier foods sold in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/07/23/salt-food-cereal.html?ref=rss

Part of me is surprised, part of me is not. I would have thought it would be easier to standardize the recipe in various countries, but I guess not.

[shootingstar]

Maybe the food manufacturers want to pump up more sales in Canada.

Actually some of the food network cooking shows aren't too healthy for how some chefs just liberally salt their food. I am being critical because many people are highly influenced by TV/visual images.

[firenze11]

Maybe the food manufacturers want to pump up more sales in Canada.

I'm not too sure about that since All Bran looks like it's one of foods that has a ton more sodium up here than the US. I think, generally, All Bran buyers are looking to be more healthy by adding fiber, lowering sugar, etc. Or at least that's what I've come across personally and what has been stereotyped.

It's not like they're just talking about Spaghettios and Lucky Charms.

I agree about the food network chefs though. Sometimes I'm shocked at how much they add. But then again it's the Food Network, not the Health Channel. There are some health conscious shows on there but for the most part they're looking to satisfy the maximum amount of tastebuds.

[OakLeaf]

This article (http://www.active.com/nutrition/Articles/Fluid_Facts_for_Athletes.htm?page=2) has a chart of average electrolyte losses in sweat.

Unfortunately it doesn't give a primary source reference, and the single position paper they cite recommends sodium intake of 500-700 mg per liter of water, not the higher amount the article recommends (and it doesn't discuss other electrolytes). I didn't go through and read all the studies cited in the ACSM position paper.

But even according to the ACSM's lower guidelines, on a ride of moderate distance, heat, humidity and intensity - say four hours sweating out two regular sized bottles of water (1.3 liters) an hour - that would translate into 2.5 - 3.5 grams of sodium needing to be replaced, or a teaspoon to a teaspoon and a half of salt.