Trek 2.1 or Giant Avail 1?

[Pan Dulce]

Okay, the pick is down to the Trek 2.1 (http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/2_series/21wsd/) and the Giant Avail 1 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/women/2285/32114/) (my budget went up slightly due to family generosity + a 10% sale :D).

Any personal experiences? Any comments on which is better component/frame size? I'm torn - visually, I like the 2.1 but the people don't treat me very well there. The Giant dealer treats me like gold. :) That alone would make me go with the Avail, but something always brings me back to the 2.1..

Anyway, I just wanted to get opinions and see if anyone had any experience with them, or any opinions on components.. thanks everyone!

[Running Mommy]

which one rides better, and fits you best?? THAT is the one to go with..
Tho it is important to have a shop that has your back, and is easy to deal with.

[Ana]

I was lucky and tweaked my bike (that initially didn't fit, or, rather, had the wrong components on it--saddle, stem, etc) but get the one that feels the best!

Also, could the shop that has the GIANT order you a Trek 2.1 in the size you need? :)

[Pan Dulce]

You know, they just carry Giant, but I never thought to ask if they could order me the Trek. Can they usually do that?

They both feel great to me. And the shop 'having my back' is a huge +++ to me. It just about evens it out to me.

[Running Mommy]

If they are not a Trek dealer, they cannot.
I get that question all the time "can you order any bike I want??"... sorry.
Becoming a dealer for a specific brand is a tedious process, almost political. And you cannot become a dealer just to sell one bike.
Tho that doesn't neccesarily hold true for the small niche brands. But usually even they have minimums.

edit to add.
I am a Giant dealer, so some may say biased. But in this case (as is always with me) I say go with the bike that really calls to you. BUT like you even said, having a shop that has your back is HUGE! So if you like the Giant enough that you will not have buyers remorse, and pine for the trek after the fact, you may want to go with the Giant. You have to decide. I just know from past non lbs owner experience that as a woman, having a shop you are comfortable in is HUGE. You want to look forward to when you have to take the bike in for tune ups and such. You want to enjoy your time and interactions with your lbs, not dread them.
OTOH- if you feel that by buying the Giant you are missing out- get the trek. They are both equally great bikes. You can always buy the trek and pay to have it serviced at the other shop. We tell people all the time to shop around, and to buy the bike that speaks to them, sometimes it's from us, sometimes it's not. But we welcome them back, and help them with whatever they end up purchasing regardless. (keep in mind that if the Giant dealer has been spending a lot of time with you, and you walk in with a Trek they may be disappointed. It's human nature, but they will come around.)
Hope this helps

[bikecanada]

I have the Giant and I really like it. However, I don't have a lot of experience with road bikes (this is my first one and I've had it for about a year). It fits me well though and it feels really comfortable on medium length rides (about 80kms). I do feel that it has a more 'comfort' feel to it rather than a race kind of feeling. However, it still holds up well in group rides, maybe beginner-intermediate level group rides.
It also comes with rear eyelets so that I can do some light touring, and put a rack on it if I want to.

[surgtech1956]

Definitely both are good bikes. I go with the treatment/service you receive. I looked at the Specialized line, but that dealer didn't give me the time of day, so I went back to the one(Giant/Trek/Fisher dealer) I've dealt with in the past, they always treat me like I'm one of their best customers. Consumer service is #1 in my book.

[TxDoc]

Becoming a dealer for a specific brand is a tedious process, almost political. And you cannot become a dealer just to sell one bike.
Tho that doesn't neccesarily hold true for the small niche brands. But usually even they have minimums.

I know this is totally off-topic RM - but I'm curious about it and I figured you could explain the current bicycle market to me a bit, and did not want to open another whole thread :)

In the last two years I noticed that several shops in the area have decided to reduce the number of manufacturer thay are dealers for. Unfortunately, high-end European bikes (Bianchi, BMC, and friends) were often the first to be dropped. For example right now (2009) in our area we are down to one BMC dealer and two Bianchi dealers - while in 2007 we had like 3 and 6. Other brands (US makers included, unfortunately) have been dropped as well. It seems that most places settle for the higher volume selling manufacturers like Giant, Trek, Specialized, and a few high-end makers, for example the shop 'around the corner' is a Cervelo and Giant dealer - and they can order custom Moots and Waterford on request. Until two years ago they also had Bianchi and Litespeed in stock - and were able to order Look and custom BMC models. But in '08 they dropped all of those because they said it required too much investment upfront.
And it's not just our area, I noticed the same back home in L.A. last time I was there, so it's really sort of happening everywhere.

What I have been wondering is what the rationale behind this change is. Did the manufacturers start asking for higher # of purchases, i.e. if you want to still be a XXX dealer then you need to buy at least so many more this year than last year? Or is this just tied to the increase in prices, and so even if the number of bikes you need to stock is the same - the actual value is like 40% higher? Or is this maybe an attempt by the shops to protect themselves from repercussions of the recession, I guess shop owners predict that they will sell less bicycles in '09 and '10? Or a combination of all of the above and more?
And the 'selective' reduction that affect certain manufacturers more - is this because European imports are more expensive (Euro against Dollar), or because they sell less, or is there more to the story?

edit -
ps: this year I did buy a Giant for the first time and so far I'm liking it... so be happy :)

[Pan Dulce]

Thanks for all the help guys. I was leaning towards the Giant but I was second guessing myself. I went to ride the Trek again and yep - all wrong for me, I just felt wrong. Probably because the guy kept insisting I was a 56cm and, though I don't know much about road bikes yet, I'm pretty sure that is too big for me at 5'6". ?

Soooo.. I'm test riding a Scott Contessa tomorrow, just to make sure. But I asked them to hold the Giant for me. Hopefully it'll hold up if I decide to do some races down the road.

I know in my area, every LBS has carries only one brand - except Trek also carries Gary Fisher but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count. I wish we had a Bianchi dealer in these parts, we don't as far as I know. :(

[Ana]

I was leaning towards the Giant but I was second guessing myself. I went to ride the Trek again and yep - all wrong for me, I just felt wrong. Probably because the guy kept insisting I was a 56cm and, though I don't know much about road bikes yet, I'm pretty sure that is too big for me at 5'6". ?

Soooo.. I'm test riding a Scott Contessa tomorrow, just to make sure. But I asked them to hold the Giant for me. Hopefully it'll hold up if I decide to do some races down the road.


Isn't it peculiar how we have mental blocks against things we are trying to decide? :p Sometimes it takes a few rounds to figure it out (even though in your mind, it may already be decided--you just have to discover it since so many factors influence a decision!)

Yeah, 56 sounds waaaay too big for you...maybe good for someone who is 5'11"..... Just curious: what size Giant did they put you on?

Yay, that sounds terrific :) Aren't you excited to get a new bike? :)

Good luck! Let us know your test ride goes (and which bike wins your heart)!

[TxDoc]

But I asked them to hold the Giant for me. Hopefully it'll hold up if I decide to do some races down the road.

It should ;)
I have not tried the Avail but I did test ride a Defy which I'm told is the same thing - and it looks like a pretty good bike :)

[Pan Dulce]

Isn't it peculiar how we have mental blocks against things we are trying to decide? :p Sometimes it takes a few rounds to figure it out (even though in your mind, it may already be decided--you just have to discover it since so many factors influence a decision!)

Yeah, 56 sounds waaaay too big for you...maybe good for someone who is 5'11"..... Just curious: what size Giant did they put you on?

Yay, that sounds terrific :) Aren't you excited to get a new bike? :)

Good luck! Let us know your test ride goes (and which bike wins your heart)!

I know! I knew this was to be a big purchase, and with two young kids, I'm not exactly rolling in the dough, so I wanted to make sure this was 'THE BIKE' and that it would hold up to whatever I may want to do in the future.

Giant put me on a small, which I believe is a 50 or 52? The guy at Trek just based it off standover height, which I don't believe to be that accurated, given the smaller geometry and sloping top tube of the frames I was trying. Right?

TxDoc and bikecanada, thanks for the reassurance on the Giant. I sure do like the teal color on the Avail 3 better, but I prefer the shifting on the Avail 1 so that's what I'm going for.

Thanks SO MUCH for all the help and reassurance. I don't know any riders in town, so it helps to hash this out with you guys and it makes me feel like I'm not alone. :)

[Running Mommy]

Ok to catch up and answer some questions..

Shiv- Trek and Gary Fisher are one in the same. Bontrager is also a trek product- ie; non trek shops cannot get them.

As for the sizing.... ARGGHHH to shops that base their sizing on standover height- NEVER do that!!!!!! With the new geometry that most road bikes have these days you really need to look at effective top tube, and overall reach.
To give you an idea, go on wrench science dot com and go into their fit gallery. You have to make an acct, but it's easy and free. Then do a fit on yourself- have someone help measure you. Plug in the numbers and then look at the overall reach and related numbers. Those are really helpful in finding the right sized bike for you.

Ok and TX....
Yes a lot of shops are streamlining what they carry. We were a Bianchi dealer last year, but this year they wanted a 25k commitment. We don't have the market, so we had to drop them. The larger companies also tend to have much more favorable credit terms, while the small guys are all COD or credit card up front. So for shops that are cash poor (like ours) it makes it hard to justify carrying the brand. Also it is a very tough environment for the small independent bike dealers. Margins are low on bikes, and getting lower on accessories, so it is very tough to be profitable. Most of the saavy owners are narrowing their focus and then going deep. So you will prolly see less "stuff" in your lbs. We just can't afford to have so much "fluff" laying around taking up space and $$. We are constantly evaluating our inventory mix, and are dropping "skus" (products) that are sitting too long.
So anyway, that is why you are seeing a shift in your lbs. They are kind of forced to in order to stay alive.

[Pan Dulce]

Okay I rode the Scott Contessa, and I love it, so I'm kinda back to square one! :p

[Ana]

It sounds like you have a lot more test riding and decision making to do ;) Is the Scott at the shop you really like or are the Giant and the Scott at different shops?

[Running Mommy]

Scott makes a nice bike. Is it carbon? Another thing I forgot to add is that you want to check the warranty. Some companies only warranty carbon for three years.
Giant is lifetime on the frame, and I have replaced a couple of older frames for folks.
I'm not positive but I believe trek is the same way.
Scott is a smaller company so may not be able to do that. I'm not sure though?? So I would check.
They are a VERY nice bike tho! One of my friends rides a plasma and I love when he brings it in for service.
Which shop has the Scott?

[Pan Dulce]

Running Mommy, can I ask you a question, as a Giant dealer? If you don't want to answer, that's fine. :)

Will the Avail 1 serve me well if I want to get into racing down the road? Will it serve me well on long rides (like a century)? Is it just me, or are the handlebars narrower than the norm? It seems more upright than usual too.

I like the Scott because it seems more 'race ready' if I ever want to go that way in the future, but when I get on the Giant it's like home. :D I'm concerned that the handlebars are too narrow though.

[MartianDestiny]

Will the Avail 1 serve me well if I want to get into racing down the road? Will it serve me well on long rides (like a century)? Is it just me, or are the handlebars narrower than the norm? It seems more upright than usual too.

I like the Scott because it seems more 'race ready' if I ever want to go that way in the future, but when I get on the Giant it's like home. :D I'm concerned that the handlebars are too narrow though.

Not Running Mommy, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

The Scott definitely has racier/more aggressive geometry than the Giant Avail. Can you race the Giant Avail? sure. Is it a race bike? IMO, no (and I own an OCR3, the 08 Avail).

You can ride a century on either bike. Some would argue that the Giant's geometry may make it more comfortable from the long ride prospective (it would be more upright, more stable, less aggressive), but it's all about getting a good solid fit for long rides (I ride centuries on my aggressive race climbing bike and do metrics every weekend on it, no problems).

If you want a racier feel Giant's analog to the Contessa Speedster is the TCR Alliance w. So you can get a very similar bike to the Contessa in a Giant package; it's just not the Avail. All three are nice bikes.

My thoughts on buying a bike for the future vs. buying what you need/want/feel best on now.

You may think this is the last bike you'll buy. Truth is if you really get into riding it more than likely won't be.

When I started road biking (coming from mountain only) I bought a Giant OCR3 (basically an Avail) thinking it would be the first/last/and only roadie I'd ever want. It was great for what I wanted at the time (commuter, some fun path rides, general fitness), comfortable, and confidence inspiring (I can handle a bike, but those skinny tires made me nervous until I got some miles on them!).

Lo and behold I liked road biking and wanted something more aggressive. I now have a fancy, quick, aggressive, no questions asked race bike. Honestly, had I bought it first thinking I'd grow into it or might like to race one day I think it would have scared the crap out of me. I still commute on the Giant.

My thought is, buy the bike you are most comfortable on now. Don't settle for something because you think you may like it better later on. Ride it, race it, whatever (none of the bikes you mentioned are unworthy of some beginner races). If you get to the point in your riding where you are really yearning for a more aggressive frame chances are you are going to be yearning for upgrades all around (drivetrain to a standard double or compact and probably up a component level, wheels, frame material/weight, geometry, etc) at which point it's easiest to just get a new bike. Plus you may find you end up wanting a completely different bike than you think you are going to want now (If you asked me 2 years ago when I started what style road bike I'd most likely spend big $$$ on I'd have told you touring over race in a heartbeat, still don't have a touring bike and honestly don't want one).

The Giant Avail is likely to be a little more versatile and a little more forgiving than the Scott, so I'd say start on that since you like it and the shop.

If you really want a race bike the Contessa is the better option all things (FIT!!) being equal (but the Giant TCR Alliance could be in the running then as well).

Handlebars, saddles, stems. are fixable. Talk to the shop and see if they are willing to work with you on a wider set of bars if you don't like the stock ones (many women like/need narrower bars than their male counterparts, so I wouldn't be surprised to find narrower than average bars on a "women's" bike).

[Pan Dulce]

Not Running Mommy, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

The Scott definitely has racier/more aggressive geometry than the Giant Avail. Can you race the Giant Avail? sure. Is it a race bike? IMO, no (and I own an OCR3, the 08 Avail).

You can ride a century on either bike. Some would argue that the Giant's geometry may make it more comfortable from the long ride prospective (it would be more upright, more stable, less aggressive), but it's all about getting a good solid fit for long rides (I ride centuries on my aggressive race climbing bike and do metrics every weekend on it, no problems).

If you want a racier feel Giant's analog to the Contessa Speedster is the TCR Alliance w. So you can get a very similar bike to the Contessa in a Giant package; it's just not the Avail. All three are nice bikes.

My thoughts on buying a bike for the future vs. buying what you need/want/feel best on now.

You may think this is the last bike you'll buy. Truth is if you really get into riding it more than likely won't be.

When I started road biking (coming from mountain only) I bought a Giant OCR3 (basically an Avail) thinking it would be the first/last/and only roadie I'd ever want. It was great for what I wanted at the time (commuter, some fun path rides, general fitness), comfortable, and confidence inspiring (I can handle a bike, but those skinny tires made me nervous until I got some miles on them!).

Lo and behold I liked road biking and wanted something more aggressive. I now have a fancy, quick, aggressive, no questions asked race bike. Honestly, had I bought it first thinking I'd grow into it or might like to race one day I think it would have scared the crap out of me. I still commute on the Giant.

My thought is, buy the bike you are most comfortable on now. Don't settle for something because you think you may like it better later on. Ride it, race it, whatever (none of the bikes you mentioned are unworthy of some beginner races). If you get to the point in your riding where you are really yearning for a more aggressive frame chances are you are going to be yearning for upgrades all around (drivetrain to a standard double or compact and probably up a component level, wheels, frame material/weight, geometry, etc) at which point it's easiest to just get a new bike. Plus you may find you end up wanting a completely different bike than you think you are going to want now (If you asked me 2 years ago when I started what style road bike I'd most likely spend big $$$ on I'd have told you touring over race in a heartbeat, still don't have a touring bike and honestly don't want one).

The Giant Avail is likely to be a little more versatile and a little more forgiving than the Scott, so I'd say start on that since you like it and the shop.

If you really want a race bike the Contessa is the better option all things (FIT!!) being equal (but the Giant TCR Alliance could be in the running then as well).

Handlebars, saddles, stems. are fixable. Talk to the shop and see if they are willing to work with you on a wider set of bars if you don't like the stock ones (many women like/need narrower bars than their male counterparts, so I wouldn't be surprised to find narrower than average bars on a "women's" bike).

GOOD points, and I really appreciate someone coming out and telling me all this. Money is *extremely* tight so I'd like to think this was going to be my 'only bike ever', but I'm somehow scraping together the funds now so I'll probably be able to do it at a later date too, ya know?

I'm not sure if I'm ever going to race, and with two small children it may not be feasible for the future either. I'm not sure if I can picture myself racing anything more than the occasional small duathlon/triathlon or small race. I picture myself as more a Thursday group ride/century/charity rider.

And you're right, by the time I start racing (IF) I'm going to want an upgrade in components anyway.

I appreciate you clearing my head. Thanks for making those points. :o

[TxDoc]

Okay I rode the Scott Contessa, and I love it, so I'm kinda back to square one! :p

I have no clue about the contessa because I have never tried it - but I did test ride the Addict and it's light, fast, and very responsive. Definitely good for racing.
What are the specs on the Contessa?

[Pan Dulce]

http://scottusa.com/us_en/product/1666/11938/contessa_speedster

I am actually trying to sell one for a friend, wrong size for me unfortunately. I was thinking of posting it in the forums.

[MartianDestiny]

http://scottusa.com/us_en/product/1666/11938/contessa_speedster

I am actually trying to sell one for a friend, wrong size for me unfortunately. I was thinking of posting it in the forums.

What size is it?

[Pan Dulce]

Small/52 cm. I decided against the Scott because it just doesn't feel right to me, or I might have bought it off of her. :p

[MartianDestiny]

Small/52 cm. I decided against the Scott because it just doesn't feel right to me, or I might have bought it off of her. :p

Welp, too big for me!

[Running Mommy]

I may be a Giant dealer, but I am more interested in getting people on the right bike- regardless of the brand. (well except maybe specialized as most of you know).

The avail IS NOT Giant's race geometry. As the other poster stated the TCR is the race bike. The avail is mean't for comfort on the long haul- centuries, and for those that just are not comfortable on an aggresive bike. It's actually the bike that a lot of people getting into the sport gravitate towards.

I do not know Scott's line, but you will want to make sure that it is not their relaxed geometry bike. Most manu's have them in their line now.

If you have it in your head that racing is in your future, I would defintely look towards race geometry. You can still ride centuries on it tho.

[Pan Dulce]

I am going with the Giant - it is way more comfortable and natural to me, and the staff was the most friendliest and helpful in my quest. They are the only bike shop (out of 4 I went to) that offered to do a full fit for me, and not just doing a 'standover, adjust the stem, and send me on my way' bit. Plus they have layaway and financing, so I may just go with the Avail Alliance or the TCR Alliance. We'll see if how much my husband will complain if I go that route. ;)

Thanks everyone for the huge amounts of help! It is appreciated.

[bmxovich]

Hello, What Giant dealer are you dealing with? I'm located in Spokane and am looking at several bike options for my daughter. She is really liking the trek 2.1 as well. I'd like to look at a Giant as I haven't done that yet. A good bike shop with truly helpfull, knowlegable staff is worth it's weight in gold.

[TxDoc]

I may just go with the Avail Alliance or the TCR Alliance.

If you have the choice and both fit you well - I would definitely recommend the TCR. It is fast, more aggressive geometry, and more responsive. The TCR would be good for racing if you decide to race.
Good luck!

[Pan Dulce]

Hello, What Giant dealer are you dealing with? I'm located in Spokane and am looking at several bike options for my daughter. She is really liking the trek 2.1 as well. I'd like to look at a Giant as I haven't done that yet. A good bike shop with truly helpfull, knowlegable staff is worth it's weight in gold.

If you can come to Coeur d'Alene, I recommend the old Schull's for a Giant dealer. I think they are calling themselves CDA Cycling and Fitness now. I can get you an address and phone number if you want. They are SO helpful and the owner is a women, she's the best. I <3 this store. Sorry, I don't know any dealers in Spokane. I don't know if you'd want to drive all the way over here.
Coeur d'Alene Cycling and Fitness (http://www.shullscyclingandfitness.com/) There is not much on their website yet.

For Trek, I recommend North Division Bicycle. I go over there for my Trek needs (I have a hybrid), even though we have a Trek dealer here in CDA. I made a mistake in not going over there to check out the 2.1. They are pretty nice over there and have a big stock.
North Division Bicycle (http://www.northdivision.com/)

Out of the two, I prefer the service at the Giant dealer here in CDA. Very helpful. Let me know if you need anymore help. :) Let me know what she gets!

[Running Mommy]

Never can beat a shop owned by a woman...;) :p
I'm just sayin'.... ha ha ha


BTW- The avail alliance is an awesome bike. I can't tell the difference between my full carbon tri bike and the alliance. I love that bike. But if you want zippy performance, go with the TCR. Unless comfort is key. Actually since they are doing a full REAL fit on you, they will be the ones that can best tell you what bike to go with, because they will be looking at you and watching your riding style.

[Pan Dulce]

Never can beat a shop owned by a woman...;) :p
I'm just sayin'.... ha ha ha


BTW- The avail alliance is an awesome bike. I can't tell the difference between my full carbon tri bike and the alliance. I love that bike. But if you want zippy performance, go with the TCR. Unless comfort is key. Actually since they are doing a full REAL fit on you, they will be the ones that can best tell you what bike to go with, because they will be looking at you and watching your riding style.

Thank you! You've been such a big help.

(I agree with you about female bike shop owners, BTW..)

[Running Mommy]

thanks. I try to be a help, and not push anything on anyone. Like I tell all my customers " I don't just want to sell you a bike. I want you to ride it, not have it become furniture in the house, or regret your purchace."