Inadequate/no bike parking@big public bldgs.

[shootingstar]

Does this happen to you much ..bike commuting to a huge shopping mall or big chain grocery store and there is no/hardly reasonable place to lock up a bike for a few hrs. or less?

Or huge public buildings that don't offer any visible bike parking posts/alternatives? Not even a street sign post nearby or a tree sapling. Or if there was maybe, there's no signage from ground level to show cyclists.

Examples (of several not shown below):
Pathetic when several times at a Safeway grocery store location, I was forced to lock up my bike...against a post of a corral of shopping buggies were kept..in the middle of the parking lot. Not at all by door.

A gorgeous new and huge convention centre by our downtown waterfront area has just been completed with a green roof, etc. But there are no bike racks /posts. Right now there's scrambling around internally to figure out this gross construction omission because it was part of the developer's construction conditions. :rolleyes: Let's see if this sustainable trumped-up building is finally "finished" properly. :D

[Tri Girl]

This makes me quite cranky. It makes it hard to ride your bike places, sometimes. I won't ride my bike to my favorite shopping center because there is NO place to lock my bike (aside from the 4x4 foot ginourmous columns that I would have to have a 20 foot lock to get around).

I've requested at my local grocery store that they install a bike rack (I know 2 employees ride their bikes because I've seen them lock them at the shopping cart corral a few times). It would cost them less than a couple hundred bucks and would not only make customers happy (the 2 of us that bike anyway:rolleyes:), but their employees, too.
I just lock it to the railing when exiting the store. It's kinda in the way, but if anyone ever says anything, I'll plead my case... yet again.

[Tuckervill]

What's wrong with parking in the parking lot?

I understand that the cart corral is dangerous for bikes with carts and cars being in close proximity, but I'm just sayin...

It may seem like blasphemy, but why would a cyclist think they have the right to park near the door?

Karen

[tulip]

It may seem like blasphemy, but why would a cyclist think they have the right to park near the door?

Karen

Because there's typically room there and it's typically covered from the rain, which is important when you're trying to stuff grocery bags in your panniers.

[shootingstar]

I understand that the cart corral is dangerous for bikes with carts and cars being in close proximity, but I'm just sayin...

It may seem like blasphemy, but why would a cyclist think they have the right to park near the door?

Karen

Perhaps I should have said safe bike parking..for the cyclist while locking up the bike. Have you tried locking a bike against a cart corral in this type of location? It's actually dangerous standing out there with cars turning or backing out to leave while dealing with bike panniers and groceries. The grocery clerks are also busy slamming a long row of shopping carts back into the corral. They're just doing their job.

Point of topic, is a more bike friendly place that accommodates cycling as a viable transportation, means designing public places that allow some customers (we are talking about customers) to park their bike.

Tri Girl, those huge Greek shopping mall columns are solid impossibilities for bike lock choke. Hope the grocery store acts on your suggestion.

[shootingstar]

Convention centre is located in beautiful location, right by a bike route and near many tourist destinations.
http://www.vancouverconventioncentre.com/ Yes, Vancouver does have some drop dead gorgeous vistas.

Seaplanes also launch from nearby (yes, there are bike racks by the seaplane building. Yes, I did park my bike there once, when I did fly to Vancouver Island for 1 day by seaplane for a meeting. It's a lovely fit, seeing the Gulf Islands by seaplane...and then in evening, bike home same day.) The capital city of British Columbia is Victoria, located on Vancouver Island. So there is much commuter seaplane air traffic if one is dealing senior govn't bureaucrats or if one has a lovely vacation home on one of the Gulf Islands.

[channlluv]

One of the things I noticed on Maui was the wide bike lanes with wonderfully smooth pavement, and there were life-sized, bike-shaped lockup frames all over the place. They were all over Waikiki, too, on the curb of every major city street that we walked down. I didn't note how far apart, but there was at least one on each city block. I shouldn't think it would take much to install something similar on every city block here on the mainland. They were attractive and sturdy and well-used.

Struck me as a bike-friendly place.

Roxy

[PamNY]

It may seem like blasphemy, but why would a cyclist think they have the right to park near the door? Karen

It's not a right; it's a sensible convenience for customers. I think the risk of bike theft would be slightly less if bikes are near the front door.

In the parking lot, the thief can simply cut the cable and pop the bike in a van.

[Irulan]

Point of topic, is a more bike friendly place that accommodates cycling as a viable transportation, means designing public places that allow some customers (we are talking about customers) to park their bike.

Duh, as we say!! If I don't see a reasonable place to lock up my bike, I walk it right into the store and ask if there is a place for it, or if I can put it by the customer service counter. My local Ace and Joanns are quite used to be bringing my bikes inside.

[TrekTheKaty]

Do you have a local or state bicycle organization? Here's what is going on here:

"[O]nce you get to where you're pedaling, there's hardly a rack for parking.

The St. Louis Regional Bicycle Federation is about to chip away at the problem. The organization just received a $50,000 federal grant to install between 200 and 300 more bicycle racks in St. Louis and St. Louis County in the next year."

However, it hasn't reached my town yet. Brand new rec-plex has one bike rack and it is one of the "designer" racks that, technically isn't safe (we live a mile away).

[Reesha]

I was just thinking "I hope they install bike parking at Culinaria downtown!"

Man, I'll be able to ride my bike to the grocery store! Woo! But only if there's a place I can lock my bike.

[Tuckervill]

It's really not any more dangerous to deal with your groceries and your bike in the parking lot than it is for me to deal with my groceries and my infant and toddler getting into the car in the parking lot (I don't have little kids anymore, just an example). Everyone's in danger in the parking lot, or everyone is not, so let's put that aside.

I already said that the cart corral is not an appropriate place to lock a bike. I don't even like to park my car near it.

Covered bike parking? Again, in my car, I don't have the luxury of covered parking (although I did see a grocery in Scottsdale that had that). What about cyclists makes them more important as a customer that they would rate covered parking? Or to park near the door?

Putting a bike rack on the massive sidewalk in front of the Wal-Mart Supercenter wouldn't be much of an inconvenience for Wal-Mart. But it might as well be in the parking lot, next to the reserved spots, for all the convenience it would be for the cyclists.

Karen

[shootingstar]

Covered bike parking? Again, in my car, I don't have the luxury of covered parking (although I did see a grocery in Scottsdale that had that). What about cyclists makes them more important as a customer that they would rate covered parking? Or to park near the door?

Putting a bike rack on the massive sidewalk in front of the Wal-Mart Supercenter wouldn't be much of an inconvenience for Wal-Mart. But it might as well be in the parking lot, next to the reserved spots, for all the convenience it would be for the cyclists.

Karen

Earlier in the thread, I merely said near the door/entrance of the store in a safe location.

As for covered bike parking, would be nice but of course it's not realistic for every type of building design space area. Cyclists rating as more important as customer? .....already alot of real estate is devoted for car parking at shopping malls, big grocery stores. Some rethinking for shopping mall/big store owners: 1 car parking space can hold several bikes. Hence, it's a small investment to draw in more customers to place racks not far from an entrance.

Space and location for some bike parking spaces in a logical, safe place is not asking much in the bigger scheme of a shopping mall development. At this point in North American cycling culture history, it's not alot of bike racks that are installed. We are very behind compared to some European countries with bike parking "buildings" and other configurations.

Last night I went to a public panel discussion on bike parking. That's where my head wheels got inspired for this thread.
http://justagwailo.com/2009/06/26/park-this

[MartianDestiny]

Covered bike parking? Again, in my car, I don't have the luxury of covered parking (although I did see a grocery in Scottsdale that had that). What about cyclists makes them more important as a customer that they would rate covered parking? Or to park near the door?


I don't give a crap where the bike parking is, so long as it is there, secure rather than decorative, and reasonably safe to access. (As you've noted having to lock a bike to a cart corral is not safe for bike or cyclist. Having a bike rack in a parking space or near the other parking could be depending on how it is laid out).

Realistically if a place is going to put in bike racks at all it's going to be up front. Either in the dead space between parking and the lane in front of the store, or on the sidewalk somewhere. I doubt this is solely (or even primarily) out of consideration for the good little tree hugging bicyclists and more out of concern for their pocketbooks and the convenience of the majority of their customers. Put the bike rack in a parking spot and that's one more spot a car can't get in, a potential inconvenience for the majority of customers. Also, most projects with any foresight set the racks in the concrete; this, I imagine, is both simpler and cheaper than trying to set them in asphalt. Even if they don't have foresight, it's probably cheaper and easier to set bolts in existing concrete than in existing asphalt. Concrete exists up towards the front of the store and not really elsewhere for most major grocery stores and "megamarts" thus bike racks end up towards the front.

I've been to a few places where bike parking was off to one side or around the corner of the store/mall. I have no issues with that so long as it's marked or visible (or I won't find it and be annoyed that I can't lock my bike to anything!) and reasonably safe and secure (not in some dark back alley where I'm asking to get mugged, etc).

If a store/mall/shopping area doesn't want to provide me with a decent bike rack that is entirely their prerogative. It's also entirely my prerogative to be annoyed and not give them my business. Luckily it's rare that this is an issue in my area.

[shootingstar]

I don't give a crap where the bike parking is, so long as it is there, secure rather than decorative, and reasonably safe to access.

You mean cutie bike posts like these? :p
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouverpublicspace/sets/72157608992816756/

[TxDoc]

You mean cutie bike posts like these? :p
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouverpublicspace/sets/72157608992816756/

Now, if they do this around here - I may even decide to leave the car and start commuting!
:D

[MartianDestiny]

You mean cutie bike posts like these? :p
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancouverpublicspace/sets/72157608992816756/

The lightbulb doesn't bother me too much. I can certainly secure a bike with that.

Some are just dumb and make it nearly impossible to get frame, rear wheel, and bike rack all in a U-lock.

[shootingstar]

Newly installed bike racks near one of our local light rapid train stations (Sperliing station, on Millenium Line) and major bike route that was recently extended.

Others felt it was a practical design. The diameter of the round wheel design plus supporting bike post allows proper locking.

[skhill]

A lack of bike parking is one of my pet peeves-- especially when it's a business that's on a road that has a bike lane. But you know, sometimes if you ask, the business will respond. My primary grocery store has several employees that bike to work, and quite a few customers too, and a couple months ago 3 of us biking customers went in there together to ask the manager to please put in a bike rack. And guess what? They did! It's in a bad location (right by the door, under cover, but next to a previously existing sign prohibiting bikes/skateboards/skates etc. on the sidewalk) and not bolted down. So we're usually still using the trees off to the side, while we're hoping for something a little more usable. Still, they responded. They meant well. Now we just need to iron out the details...

My nearest Wal-Mart, on the other hand.... not responsive

Anyway, sometimes, if you ask, businesses will respond.

[Reesha]

I should write a letter to Schnucks about bike parking at Culinaria... maybe see if anyone else wants to do it with me through the StL biking forum?

[spokewench]

I know this is really hard to understand; and I hate it too. But, the only way to get anything changed, is to start getting involved in your local politics. Is there a traffic commission in your city that you can start to attend and begin telling them the importance of bike/pedestrian traffic, bike parking, etc.?

Is there a bike advocacy group that actually gets together and is vocal in local politics? If there is not, start one. It only takes one person to do this. We can all complain about this stuff, but nothing will happen until we band together to make the needs known.

Even when you do make these concerns clear, the powers that be, and people who do not ride a bike will decide not to address them. It takes long term perseverence. I am on the bicycle advisory committee in town that is a an advisory committee to the traffic commission. We have a say in what goes on in out town; sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. Sometimes, it takes 10-15 years for something to happen and when it does it is a great big deal. At least to cyclists. We have had guidelines in our town for bike parking to be placed at new building construction. These were only guidelines however and did not have to be built. However, the City is now undergoing a complete revision of building codes and it looks very good that the guideline will now be a requirement! It has taken a lot of long years to get here and we are not quite there yet. SO I am crossing my fingers and hoping.

So, get involved. Perhaps things will change in your City.

spoke

[shootingstar]

It takes long term perseverence. I am on the bicycle advisory committee in town that is a an advisory committee to the traffic commission. We have a say in what goes on in out town; sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. Sometimes, it takes 10-15 years for something to happen and when it does it is a great big deal. At least to cyclists. We have had guidelines in our town for bike parking to be placed at new building construction. These were only guidelines however and did not have to be built. However, the City is now undergoing a complete revision of building codes and it looks very good that the guideline will now be a requirement! It has taken a lot of long years to get here and we are not quite there yet. SO I am crossing my fingers and hoping.
spoke

+ yes, perseverance. Great that you're giving some time to volunteer on committee. Where the real engine of change can occur for local cycling facilities.

My partner is one of 10 members on Vancouver's bicycling advisory committee. An application and review process to become a member. This year there was competition amongst folks to get on this committee!

Bike parking is not as sexy right now as...bike routes. So perhaps, this results in lack of municipal will/drive to enforce.

City of Vancouver actually has a bylaw (in U.S. it's called a "local ordinance"?) that requires developers for new building developments to install bike parking on their property or nearby. Problem is that it is not always rigorously enforced, which means pressuring developers to finish their construction job properly. This requirement must be written directly into project contract documents before municipality signs off approval before construction starts..and at completion when building/property inspection is done by the city before building completion is signed off by city. It's been paid for...otherwise it will cost even more money to install several years later. Remember, developers and construction subcontractors are to make money and they will skimp here and there. That's part of the game. This cannot be handled verbally, it must be done in writing to the developer/construction subcontractor company.
http://vancouver.ca/engsvcs/parking/admin/developers.htm

City of Toronto has a form that any local citizen to fill out their request. Captures all necessary info. to allow them to make a site visit plus assess request. This year they will install 3,000 bike parking posts.
http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/postandring.htm

Toronto recently had a study done in a particularily busy retail, commercial area which is close to residential buildings on side streets. To determine modes of transportation used by customers. Key study which helps knock down fierce arguments from local businesses who perceive their customer base is only car based and may resist bike lanes, bike parking facilities, etc. Document pgs. 15, 18 and onward provides the summary details on proportion of customers and transportation modal share.
http://www.cleanairpartnership.org/pdf/Bike%20Lanes,%20Parking%20and%20Business%20-%20Report%20-%20Final.pdf

Hopefully, spokewench that your city will learn from others.


As for my ramblings about construction contract agreements and need to embed requirements in such documents, it is based on what I saw when working for the engineering construction firm in terms of documentation which did include design of cycling facilities/structures. My dept. was responsible for organizing all documentation..so I saw alot....

[shootingstar]

Regardless of whatever exists in your community, it is still useful to make request (in writing preferably) to the building owner/developer as a local citizen. They often are also clueless if they are car-focused themselves.