Intro and question about Turns/Cornering

[lo123]

Hi folks. I'm new here and new to riding. I've taken to riding to the point I'd say it's an addiction. My husband and I bought 'Cross bikes (Specialized TriCross for both of us) and started riding in March.

We've both adapted pretty quickly and have been blessed with a great group of folks to ride with. Once we put slick tires on our bikes, we've really been going far faster than the beginner groups and started doing more advanced group rides in our city. I'm averaging about 18mph on most of my evening group rides (25-30 miles). I recently completed a 75 mile charity ride as well.... When I jump into something, I really jump in.

Now my question... What sorts of practice can I do to be able to take turns/corners faster? Any tips/tricks? It's the one time when I get left behind on a lot of rides, especially when we're weaving through residential areas. Right now I can bust my butt and catch up after a turn, but I'd prefer to be able to keep up with them and not have those sprints (especially early in a ride).

I know I need to get more comfy leaning, but I'm not sure the best way to practice... and even where to practice--maybe a parking lot?

Thanks in advance!

[jobob]

Just for yuks (I'm avoiding work, what can I say :D) I typed "cornering bicycle" into Google and got a lot of interesting-looking hits.

Here's one that looked particularly relevant:
http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/articles/article.asp?recid=320

a snippet:

Controlling the bicycle around a corner at speed requires special skill. In some races, the ability to corner quickly is the difference between winning and riding at the back of the pack getting slaughtered.

As you speed around a corner, centrifugal force makes you want to fly out from the corner. In order to compensate, your center of gravity must lie inside the tire-road contact line.
You have three basic choices, depending on your situation:
You can angle both yourself and the bicycle. This is commonly called leaning.
You can angle the bicycle more than your body. This is commonly called countersteering.
You can angle your body more than the bicycle. This is commonly called steering.


Enjoy. :cool:

(argh, back to work...)

[TrekTheKaty]

I'm not the one to break it down for you (I'm sure someone will do that soon), but as soon as I realized that I needed to turn the handlebars more instead of leaning into the turn more--my turns got sharper.

Also, another good reference:
http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

[Kalidurga]

Another thing that I've read in a few different sources (Bicycling mag and a few others) is to pay attention to how you enter and exit the turn.

1) Use your breaks to scrub speed as you approach, and move as far to the outside of the lane as you can.

2) Entering the curve, cut directly across the apex of the turn, and do not apply your breaks. You don't need them if you slowed sufficiently on the approach, and applying them at this point can interfere with your steering.

3) As you exit the curve, move again as far towards the outside of the lane as possible and pick up your speed. Once you're all the way through, move back to the side of the lane where you'd normally position yourself.

At every point during these three steps, you should be looking where you want the bike to go. Theoretically, your wheels will follow that course.

Here are a couple of articles from Bicycling that offer really good tips: Corners from Start to Finish (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-17169-1,00.html) and Turn the Corner (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-18858-1,00.html).


Oh, and aren't those Tri-Crosses terrific bikes? I love mine :D

[PscyclePath]

In Smart Cycling, we teach an avoidance maneuver called the "Quick Turn," or sometimes "Instant Turn." Essentially you twitch the handlebars opposite the direction you want/need to go in order to force the bike to lean in that direction, then take advantage of the forced lean to carve the turn more sharply. In racing, you'd call this "countersteering."

We teach you to turn 90 degrees inside a 4 to 6-foot spacing; with a little practice you can turn more sharply than this.

At your usual riding speed, assume that a car has turned in front of you and you need to turn inside him/her in order to avoid a collision. To force a right turn, twitch your handlebar briefly toward the left. This will make the bike lean slightly to the right. As soon as you feel the bike lean, put your left (outside) pedal down and weight it, tuck your right elbow in to put the bike in a tight right turn, and look up and out to the line you want to follow.

Five simple steps:

1. NO BRAKES!! (Braked wheels want to go straight, not to turn)
2. TWITCH THE BARS tostart the lean
3. OUTSIDE PEDAL DOWN
4. INSIDE ELBOW IN
5. LOOK UP!! (Look at where you intend to go, and the bike will almost always follow your gaze...)

We usually teach this to the right, since in collision avoidance that's the shortest route to the curb and a place of relative safety. It also works to the left... so if you're cornering in a race this can let you cut inside the pack and maybe get a jump on your competitors coming out of the corner...

[lo123]

Five simple steps:

1. NO BRAKES!! (Braked wheels want to go straight, not to turn)
2. TWITCH THE BARS tostart the lean
3. OUTSIDE PEDAL DOWN
4. INSIDE ELBOW IN
5. LOOK UP!! (Look at where you intend to go, and the bike will almost always follow your gaze...)

We usually teach this to the right, since in collision avoidance that's the shortest route to the curb and a place of relative safety. It also works to the left... so if you're cornering in a race this can let you cut inside the pack and maybe get a jump on your competitors coming out of the corner...

ooh, I need to try this out tonight...

Thanks for all the tips!

Reading through things.. I think I'm just afraid of falling, which is silly. Leaning just feels very weird to me. I just need to get comfortable.

[PscyclePath]

Reading through things.. I think I'm just afraid of falling, which is silly. Leaning just feels very weird to me. I just need to get comfortable.

Leading into the Quick Turn, we put you you through a couple of preliminary drills... the "rock dodge," which is essentially twitching the bars so as to make a quick "dodge" around an object without leaning or turning the bike, then an "avoidance weave," sort of a little slalom course to help you get used to sterring the bike by leaning and shifting your weight, as well as getting used to the bike while it's leaned a little bit. Then we go into the quick turn.

It takes a little practice, but it's a trick that's saved me from a crash a more more times than I really want to remember ;-)

[Andrea]

Once you learn how to lean into a corner, your turns will get better. If you put your outside pedal down, it will help you balance. If you've ridden horses, the difference between going through a turn "upright" vs. going through a turn "leaning" is like the difference between a "bending" turn like you'd do in dressage or jumping vs. a "haul *ss" turn like you'd see in barrel racing :D

http://www.pedalmag.com/images/pedal/4a27531fcf85fBrooke%20Miller_MG_7417.jpg

http://www.washingtonstatemountedshooters.com/Rocky%20Barrel.jpg

[MomOnBike]

RE: Leaning at speed.

I like the barrel racing analogy.

I will add that the advice I got (often and with much emphasis) is that your bike/horse/skateboard/etc. WILL go where your nose is pointing.

One other thing. Turning, like everything else, yields to practice. Go to an empty parking lot and ride tight circles around the light poles, and whatever else you find there. Find out where your tolerances are, then push them. Then speed up. (/violin teacher)

[witeowl]

About your fear of falling...

I first learned to lean into fast turns when I was a child on the back of a motorcycle. My natural instinct, of course, was to sit bolt upright. The person giving me a ride stopped immediately and explaned it this way to me: If you're sitting upright, your weight is actually forcing the bike closer to the ground, which actually makes it more likely the bike will "drop". As he showed me with his hands, there are two options (you've really got to use your imagination here):

With leaning:
./ ...<-person
/ .... <-bike

Without leaning:
. I .. <-person
-- ... <-bike

That got my attention enough to get me to always lean with the bike into a fast turn, whether the bike has a motor or not! :)

[Kalidurga]

That's a great explanation. Diagrams are always helpful :D

But, as you lean, also remember to put your weight on the outside foot. That makes a huge difference. Once I learned to do that (who'm I kidding? I'm still in the process of learning it), I felt much more comfortable leaning my body.

[OakLeaf]

Countersteering is easier to visualize on a vehicle with wider tires. It's most pronounced on a loose surface, like flat-tracking.

http://thumb2.webshots.net/s/thumb1/5/76/68/75657668YqHthj_th.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1075657668011895222YqHthj)

(Click on the image for a full-sized view.)

[lo123]

Thanks everyone. The barrel racing analogy makes sense to me.. I used to ride horses, so that's probably a good place to start with relearning leans. I just had a steroid shot in my hip, so I haven't had a chance to get back onto the bike, but I'm thinking early tomorrow morning I'll give it a go.