Cyclist arrested for riding on sidewalk spends a day in jail

[PamNY]

Yikes. This story (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6849303) is alarming. I'd feel better about the whole thing if they had arrested a delivery cyclist. I know quite a few who deserve it.

Pam

[ny biker]

You're allowed one phone call, but it has to be a phone number you have memorized, because you're not allowed to look up numbers on your cell phone contact list??

[Biciclista]

your cell phone gets confiscated - you can only dial local numbers.

[ny biker]

Yeah, but what if you haven't memorized the local phone number you need to call? Or if you draw a blank and can't remember it?

[kenyonchris]

It depends on the jail. Our jailer will let a prisoner write down any numbers he needs before turning the phone off and sealing it with the other property, unless the prisoner is particularly obnoxious. I have even looked numbers up for prisoners (I am generally doing my paperwork in the jail while they are being booked in) that have been cooperative and easy to deal with.
Once one is arrested, his freedom and rights are restricted. That is part of being arrested. Jailers in larger cities can be overwhelmed with book-ins, or just not have the time to devote to each prisoner individually, it isn't a hotel. For safety reasons, outgoing calls are monitored. I don't let anyone call anyone once they are in custody until they get to the jail, sorry. All I need is an angry mob that can stem from one phone call.
And, if a prisoner is obnoxious, rude, fights, resists, and makes my life difficult, I am reluctant to cut him a break or be helpful in any way. Sorry!
And you would be AMAZED at the number of people who not only don't know the phone number of an emergency contact, but don't even know their last name! "Emergency contact or someone you want to call?" "I guess my boyfriend?" "Name?" "John." "John what?" "I don't know. It starts with a T."
I always at that point stop my paperwork, shake my head, and start again.

[PamNY]

This makes me wonder if I should start carrying my driver's license while biking. Prior to 9/11, I left my license safely at home unless I was renting a car. After 9/11, I developed a "take everything everywhere" mentality. When I got the bike, I decided it was time to let go of that.

It's unlikely that I would get ticketed, but not impossible.

Pam

[ny biker]

I always bring my license and insurance card every time I go out on the bike. I recently got an orange Jimi wallet to hold them - it's cute!

Kenyonchris, what you describe sounds more reasonable. Especially if the crime is something nonviolent like riding a bike on a sidewalk. And I would imagine that some people get flustered and have trouble remembering things in that situation.

[Eden]

I'm much more worried that the guy was arrested for not having any ID.......

You cannot lie to the police about your identity but at least not yet, there is no law that says you must have government issued ID on your person at all times.... Around here this is accepted (if are driving you do need to have your license, but otherwise you do not have to have an ID card), but I know the ACLU is/has been fighting similar arrests around the country as fundamentally unconstitutional.

[kenyonchris]

I'm much more worried that the guy was arrested for not having any ID.......

You cannot lie to the police about your identity but at least not yet, there is no law that says you must have government issued ID on your person at all times.... Around here this is accepted (if are driving you do need to have your license, but otherwise you do not have to have an ID card), but I know the ACLU is/has been fighting similar arrests around the country as fundamentally unconstitutional.

I doubt that was what he was arrested FOR (the story doesn't day). You DON'T have to carry your DL while operating a bike. I don't. If you break a law and are stopped by an officer, you DO have to tell him your name and date of birth so that he can ID you. You can't tell him someone else's name, or refuse to identify yourself if he has lawfully detained you. The ACLU (God help us all) seldom has the full story. You CAN be arrested for a LOT of things (riding on the sidewalk is one if it is a city ordinance). People have actually said to me "you can't take me to jail because I rolled through that stop sign." Oh yeah? I can. Seldom do, but if I need to, I can.

Making an unlawful arrest exposes a cop to disciplinary action and civil litigation. But few people know that there are many, many things that one can be lawfully arrested for.

[Eden]

I did say you cannot lie... and you cannot refuse to tell the police your name, but the article doesn't mention that he did either of those things, and does say that he was arrested for not having ID (yes I accept that often the news doesn't tell the whole story). I would concern me quite a bit if he did give them his name, but he was taken in anyway, just for not being able to prove it...

[PamNY]

I'm going to check into the issue of carrying ID. The news story doesn't give a lot of detail, and even if they did, there's no way to know the full story.

Here's another story (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/investigative/090520_The_Vanishing_Husband_and_the_NYPD) with a little more detail. But just like the first story, this one focuses on the phone call, not the issue of carrying ID.

Pam

[kenyonchris]

I did say you cannot lie... and you cannot refuse to tell the police your name, but the article doesn't mention that he did either of those things, and does say that he was arrested for not having ID (yes I accept that often the news doesn't tell the whole story). I would concern me quite a bit if he did give them his name, but he was taken in anyway, just for not being able to prove it...


This is semantics...but it said that he had no ID, and was arrested. I think the issue is that he had trouble contacting his family, not that he was unlawfully arrested.

[PamNY]

Here's what the Fox News story says: "Police tell Fox 5 that proper procedure was followed, that since Miguel didn't have ID they were obligated to try to identify him." That doesn't quite make sense, because arresting him doesn't make him any more identifiable.

I don't object to enforcement of quality-of-life crimes, and I consider the occasional ticket part of the cost of living in a city. I just want to know if I have to carry my driver's license to avoid being arrested in a case like this.

Personally, I'm astonished that none of the news coverage addresses the ID issue. In a city full of people who don't own cars, it must have come up before.

Pam

[TrekTheKaty]

I wasn't aware it had to be a "local" call. In St. Louis, they've split the city in half. Eastern and most cell phone numbers are 314. Western is 636. So if you are arrested in western St. Louis you can't call the house or husband's cell?

You are not required by law to carry ID. It sounds like a cop with a grudge.

[Mr. Bloom]

That doesn't quite make sense, because arresting him doesn't make him any more identifiable.


But the waterboarding, while in custody, helped:eek::rolleyes:;)

[kenyonchris]

Here's what the Fox News story says: "Police tell Fox 5 that proper procedure was followed, that since Miguel didn't have ID they were obligated to try to identify him." That doesn't quite make sense, because arresting him doesn't make him any more identifiable.

I don't object to enforcement of quality-of-life crimes, and I consider the occasional ticket part of the cost of living in a city. I just want to know if I have to carry my driver's license to avoid being arrested in a case like this.

Personally, I'm astonished that none of the news coverage addresses the ID issue. In a city full of people who don't own cars, it must have come up before.

Pam

Ok, I'm a cop. I am in Texas, not your state, but the laws are generally similar. You don't have to have a license to ride a bike. You don't have to have ID on you at all times. If you are stopped for whatever and a cop asks you who you are and what you are doing, and you rattle off your name and date of birth, it all jibes (even if you don't have your license on you, if the cop runs you through dispatch and the descriptors match, its good) you are NOT going to have a problem.

The problem comes when someone has no ID, refuses to give his name or date of birth when detained, or gives a name but can't give a birthdate, or gives different spellings for one name, or gives a birthdate but when asked his age comes up with something different. That is fishy. I don't want to issue a citation for some false person or (as is usually the case) the suspect's brother or roommate whose name popped into his head.

I don't carry my ID when I ride my bike. In fact, I seldom even take it with me in the car if I am going to ride the MTB, I don't want to leave it in the car. If I were stopped, I would give my name, date of birth, I know my DL number, and would be surprised if I were even issued a citation for failure to display a DL (different than failure to ID or driving without a DL), although I could be. The cop would run me, find that I match the info given, find that I am without warrants, and let me go after issuing me a citation for whatever he pulled me over for, if he chose to do that.

Having said that, if you are driving the car, take your DL.

[PamNY]

Thank you for that explanation. I am, just out of curiosity, going to call our local precinct. They have a good community relations person and are usually very helpful. Having this background from you will help me have a more intelligent conversation. They will probably still get a chuckle out of it, but that's okay.

Pam

[OakLeaf]

Getting arrested would be the farthest thing from my mind - but I don't go anywhere without ID. Driver's license, insurance card, organ donor card, and phone. Not even to run speedwork on the track. If something were to happen, I don't want any delay in getting medical treatment and getting my next of kin notified.

I leave it in my (locked) locker at the gym, but only because everyone there knows who I am and knows which locker I use and could vouch for me/call DH in an emergency. If I'm working out someplace where I'm not known, I keep my phone and ID in my spibelt just as I would if I were running outdoors.

I know this issue has been discussed here ad infinitum ... but not in this thread until now. :p

[Eden]

Getting arrested would be the farthest thing from my mind - but I don't go anywhere without ID. Driver's license, insurance card, organ donor card, and phone.

Heck - I do too.... I don't ever want to be shunted off to the cheapest ER because they don't think I have insurance.... but I also know that if I'm not driving that it can't be demanded that I produce ID. That doesn't even mean that I wouldn't if asked, but I can see how this could be used to single out certain people who may not drive and may not even have picture ID. We still have a free enough society that you don't have to have your "papers in order" to be able to move from place to place....