Need road bike fit help - I'm getting desperate!

[ms1]

I'm new to both the forum and road bikes and am having a lot of trouble finding a good fit in a road bike. I'm a bit over 5'0" with an inseam of about 72 cm. I have been riding a Trek flat bar 7.5 fx wsd and would like to move to a road bike.

I definitely want carbon and cannot afford custom. Also, it's been a real challenge to find bikes to test ride in my size as a lot of LBS do not have them on hand, so I've found at least one not so local LBS. I've read all about finding the perfect LBS and how they will work with you on fit. They all say that they will do a professional fit after purchase, but I am not confident about purchasing when the test ride isn't particularly comfortable. From testriding, I now have numbness in my right hand and had some neck and lower back pain (which has now gone away). As a newbie, my riding position is probably not quite right either.

I have ridden both 44cm and 48cm Specialized Ruby's, from the Elite to the Expert. The reach on the 48cm was too long, but I'm concerned that the saddle height to handlebar height is too much of a drop on the 44cm, though I understand that a different stem might work, but I'm not sure if it will work enough.

I've also ridden a Scott Contessa 47cm. Interesting that the geometry on the men's and women's versions is exactly the same, except for a different stem, though it was a beautiful bike.

Finally, I've spent some time at Trek, riding the Madone WSD 4.5 and 5.2 in 47 cm. I got some good advice from a Trek Demo rep on tweaks to make the 5.2 (which is what I was demo-ing fit), but again it's really hard to say if her suggestions would get me to the right (reach is the issue) fit (since you can only adjust within a range).

I know I've mentioned bikes in different price ranges and I haven't decided yet how much I'm going to spend. If I can get one to fit well, I might spend more, though I think the geometry is the same on all levels of the Specialized Ruby's and Trek Madone WSDs. I've called around and no one has an Orbea or Giant in my size.

I'm ready to give up on road bikes. I feel like I've tried to follow all of the good advice online and haven't found a good fit. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Cataboo]

How long have you been riding your trek?

My suggestion would be if you can get a used road bike in your size, do that for a while...

I just started road biking last year, and for the first however long... I was just uncomfortable, too much weight on my wrists, too much whatever... And I'd say about a year later that I'm now okay with longer reaches on bikes that last year I would have considered too stretched out. Part of it is just building up your core muscles. And really you gotta start putting mileage on your bike to really realize okay, this is bad and won't work. If I change something on a bike, then I go for a 20-50 mile ride, and at the end of that ride I can definitely tell you whether or not something will work or not, but it may not be obvious to me in the first 10 miles.

Wrist positioning is tricky - and I wouldn't take it as bad fit if you have wrist numbness on the bike - lots of that is getting the weight off your wrist, the angle of the wrist, sometimes its your bike gloves (if i use pearl izumi bike gloves without ripping the padding out, my wrists will go numb in 5 minutes) .

So I'd hesitate to tell you to drop a lot of cash on a bike before you get a lot of experience on a road bike and really know what you want out of it - bike fit kind of depends on "do you want to ride in a racers position?" or "do you want to ride in an upright position?" Because what the bike ends up at will change depending on that answer. So maybe if you do get fit, see if its something that can be set up more aggressively over time if you want. theoretically a good bike fitter will be able to guide you in all of this.

[alpinerabbit]

Go out again and sit on your candidate bikes, on a trainer, at the shop, and have pictures taken from the side, with pedals angled horizontal and vertical.
Come back here and post them. Maybe we can tell you something.
A picture says a thousand words.

When in doubt, take the smaller frame.
You could become very happy on a custom aluminum frame. Leaves more money for componentry.

[Biciclista]

start working on your core, exercises like crunches and pushups. You need to get that stronger to protect your back and your hands.

(the story of my life)

[ms1]

I don't think I'll be able to find much used in my size. I have checked Craigslist and have found nothing much, especially in a women's model. Also, I think I need the fit expertise of an LBS involved.

I have a lead on a 2008 Ruby Elite at a good price. I might go with that, with the idea that I could upgrade later if necessary.

Appreciate the advice about improving my muscle strength and that my riding position will probably change over time. You're definitely right that I need to improve my core.

I've been riding my Trek consistently now for about 2 years.

[Eden]

I'm just about your size - 5'0" 28.5" inseam. I ride a 44cm Ruby Pro, I even had to put a shorter stem on it - I think it came with a 90 and I went to an 80. A 48 would just be way too long for me. While it may afford you a bit more of an upright position, being stretched out on a larger frame will sap your power and cause you to have less control.... As you are used to riding a more upright bike it may take you some time to become used to the drop position, so don't give up on any bike you get right away.

If you can get a bike that has not already been assembled you may be able to get the shop to leave the steerer tube long and put extra spacers below your stem so that you can be up a bit higher - though Specialized has been putting some somewhat funky stem/handlebar combos on some of their bikes these days, so I'm not sure how that would work. You can also look into an angled stem. Mine is angled, though I put it in the down position, as I don't feel I have enough drop, rather than too much.....

[Cataboo]

You might have a good core already from that - I just know I hadn't been riding in a long time, got a road bike and I can definitely tell that my riding position and such has changed over the last year. I'm completely happy with my bikes this year - whereas, last year I was periodically miserable.

We can all give you tons of wrist positioning advice when you get your new bike!

The ruby's are nice bikes with comfortable positioning.

You're about 5' with a 28.35 or so inch inseam - so I don't think you really have a body that requires a WSD - You don't have long legs for your height. I'm 5'1 with a 28-29 inch inseam, and I don't like WSD bikes. The top tubes are too short for me.

I test rode a 52" specialized ruby comp once in the fall and I was fine on it, inseam & top tube length... It was set up very similar to my 49 cm marin bike (I'd brought my bike into the shop and they measured everything to set up the comp like my marin) - so I would think the 48" would probably work for you - but test ride and see what feels fine for you.

[MartianDestiny]

That is a frustrating predicament, and one that, at 4'11", I've been in at one degree or another since I started biking. Luckily, I'm still young and flexible and really have to be in a bad position to get pain on a bike. But even for me, perfect fit comes into play from a performance and endurance aspect (I WILL start hurting on a 60 mile ride if the bike doesn't fit me!).

I'm surprised the shops aren't willing to play around with stems and or saddles for you to test ride. It's a 10 minute swap for them (that includes swapping it back after you are done!). Perhaps being a little more demanding will help. Ie: "I really like this bike, but I'm not convinced of fit, can I please test ride it with a different stem before I make my decision".

The other way to handle it, which to some extent is what I did with my last road bike, is to go to a shop you TRUST that has a VERY good trained fitter (not just the standard seatpost up and down, stem adjust fitter).

Either go ahead and pay for the fit (not cheap unfortunately) as if you were going to get a custom frame and get your ideal numbers (it should basically come out as "here are all of the dimensions/angles/etc for a custom frame that fits you and your described riding style"). You can then compare these to stock bikes and find the one that is closest (the fitter should have some ideas for you as well).

OR find a bike from them you like that you think is close but not quite right as it sits on the floor and have faith that if they tell you it can fit without pain that it can (this is where having a good, experienced fitter on staff is key).

I did the latter. I knew the bike I wanted was close but bordering on too big judging from the test ride on a similar bike. I flat out asked, "Are you SURE you can get this bike to fit, not hurt, and not make compromises". The answer was "No problem I wouldn't sell you that bike if I couldn't get it to fit right". I ordered it and it fits great with their tweaks (but you have to really really trust your shop and fitter for this to work!!!).

You'd be surprised how much of a difference 20mm off a stem or 5* difference in stem angle can make (and different bars, etc, etc), but I understand the hesitance to buy something that expensive when the test rides aren't feeling right.

Be persistent, you'll find the right bike and shop for you. It just takes more time when you are not a standard size.

[fatbottomedgurl]

When I bought my road bike in December (Trek 2.3) the first thing I dealt with was pain between my shoulders. I am a mtn biker and the position is so much different my muscles weren't used to it. We put a shorter, more upright stem which helped the neck issue. We also swapped to compact bars out and added shims to the levers which eliminated the elbow pain I experienced. I also swapped the saddle. I have put about 900 miles on the bike and my longest rides are 38 miles. At this point now that I am stronger I find myself in the drops more and more and I think I want to switch back to the original stem to get a more aero position.

My LBS used a fit kit to determine the right frame for me. I am not wsd, at 5'3" I ended up with a 50cm. Yet my best bike friend is the same height and rides a 48 wsd Orbea. Definitely different body types!

I don't think you can get a bike right "out of the box" and ride it and expect it to feel perfect. Your body is not used to it. I understand not wanting to plunk down 3 or 4 grand for a bike and thinking it might not work out for you. Pick the bike that has the best initial feel too it, and then trust your LBS to get it set up right. (A good LBS is critical.) And expect your body to do what it does best and get stronger and adjust to what you are asking of it.

[Eden]

You're about 5' with a 28.35 or so inch inseam - so I don't think you really have a body that requires a WSD - You don't have long legs for your height. I'm 5'1 with a 28-29 inch inseam, and I don't like WSD bikes. The top tubes are too short for me.

I test rode a 52" specialized ruby comp once in the fall and I was fine on it, inseam & top tube length... It was set up very similar to my 49 cm marin bike (I'd brought my bike into the shop and they measured everything to set up the comp like my marin) - so I would think the 48" would probably work for you - but test ride and see what feels fine for you.

You must have very long arms..... I am 5'0" with a 28.5 inseam. I definitely have longer legs than torso and short arms. I need the absolute shortest top tube possible. I know I'm not way off base as I've had my bike professionally fit by a physical therapist and still had the recommendation to get a shorter stem.

[Cataboo]

No idea, long arm or torso or something - because I'm actually fairly upright on my bikes.


Which is probably part of what's going on... I only have my seatpost a few inches above the top tube - you probably have a fair amount of exposed seatpost, which given the seat angle, means that you're probably relatively further back on your seat than I am and have a longer effective top tube because of the higher seat.

I think :)

[MartianDestiny]

You must have very long arms..... I am 5'0" with a 28.5 inseam. I definitely have longer legs than torso and short arms. I need the absolute shortest top tube possible. I know I'm not way off base as I've had my bike professionally fit by a physical therapist and still had the recommendation to get a shorter stem.

This just goes to show how different people with similar measurements can be. I too ride unisex bikes at ~5ft and ~28.5 inseam; they fit me better. My last two were fit to me by a master fitter (he teaches people to fit bikes).

[Eden]

No idea, long arm or torso or something - because I'm actually fairly upright on my bikes.


Which is probably part of what's going on... I only have my seatpost a few inches above the top tube - you probably have a fair amount of exposed seatpost, which given the seat angle, means that you're probably relatively further back on your seat than I am and have a longer effective top tube because of the higher seat.

I think :)

Pretty sure its not that - I can certainly straddle a 48 (they even tried to sell me one) - especially one with compact geometry, I can even ride it, but I can tell right away that I'm too stretched out. On my 44 even though I did move the bars in a bit it felt better immediately.

[Cataboo]

I have one 44-43 cm bike, my surly - I've got a 130 mm stem on it to get the handlebars where I want them. I hate the 75 degree seat angle on it.

But all of my bikes, even the 48 cm with a 73 degree seat angle... I end up using a setback seatpost with the seat all the way back. My stems on those tend to be about 90-110 mm. (90 on my carbon which has a longer top tube, 110 on my litespeed which is shorter)

[Eden]

You must have much, much longer arms than I do. I only have one bike that I had to put a longer stem on - my Conquest 24..... (its a kids cross bike - it measures out to be around a 36cm...) both my 44cm race bike and my 47cm rain bike (has 650 wheels) have 80 mm stems to accommodate my short reach.

[Zen]

I'm 5'2 with a 29" inseam and I prefer WSD.
Go figure.

[TrekTheKaty]

MS1, I understand. Be patient. I went to 3 different bike shops and each one only had 2 women's bikes in my size. And usually one of them was out of my price range. Very frustrating. (It's almost as frustrating as golf--here's a big beautiful store full of clubs--the women's corner is back by the bathroom.) Keep talking to the shops--they may get new inventory or have a line on a used bike as it becomes available. My Trek WSD was my first road bike, but I "knew" when I test rode it.

[wildeny]

I'm 158 cm (5'2") with inseam of 72 cm (28.35 in), which seems to be quite normal according to a formula ;). Riding Fuji Finest RC XS (44cm) with the effective top tube of 51cm and a 9cm stem.

I also prefer a WSD. This frame is only slightly compact and the bike comes with the compact handlebar for shorter reach and Shimano R-700 shifters for small hands. Shimano R-700 is important for me since my hands are quite small.

MS1, IMO, a 48cm is too big. Beside the reach, don't you need to consider the stand over height? Hmm.. I just checked Trek Madone WSD. Mine is about their S(50cm) :eek: based on the effective tt length and stand over height. (How do they come up with the frame size of 44, 47, 50 cm etc? Based on what? :confused:)

[Zen]

Beside the reach, don't you need to consider the stand over height?

It depends on the slant of the top tube. I had trouble mounting/dismounting my '07 Trek Pilot. It had a slightly sloping TT but the Aurora has even more of a slope. Much nicer.

[Cataboo]

me & my ape arms :)

[kenyonchris]

I am 5'4 and have a 31.5 inch inseam and quite a short torso, longish arms. I have a WSD Ruby Expert and felt cramped on it, although the standover height was OK. I am switching to the non-WSD colnago in the exact same size...we will see what happens.

[Cataboo]

I think we're probably confusing things more than helping at this point!

[Eden]

(How do they come up with the frame size of 44, 47, 50 cm etc? Based on what? :confused:)

The "frame size" is generally the measurement of the seat tube - and it can be very misleading. Different frame styles can be the same "size" and really be very different. Take for instance cyclocross bikes - the bottom bracket is higher on cross bikes so a 44/43cm cross bike is more like a 48 or 50 in a road bike....

In the end you really need to look at the whole bike - just focusing on one measurement (especially whether or not you can stand over it - too many bike shops fit that way :( ) can lead to an ill fitting, uncomfortable bike that you won't want to ride.

Many little women end up with bikes that are too big because they can stand over a larger bike than they really need and the shop wants to sell what's on the floor rather than special order an extra small one...... If you cannot keep a comfortable bend in your arms when you are riding, the bike is most likely too large. And its not only comfort you are sacrificing if you have to ride with your elbows stiff - you also have less control and less power!

[Zen]

I think we're probably confusing things more than helping at this point!

I think this variety of fit among different bodies illustrates why you have to test a lot of bikes before you buy. You just can't come in and say "which bike should i buy?".
Eden is so right, the shop wants to sell you whats on the floor.

[sundial]

I have ridden both 44cm and 48cm Specialized Ruby's, from the Elite to the Expert. The reach on the 48cm was too long, but I'm concerned that the saddle height to handlebar height is too much of a drop on the 44cm, though I understand that a different stem might work, but I'm not sure if it will work enough.

Couple things came to mind after reading about your bike fitting experience.

Specialized puts a stock 100 mm stem on their bikes. You can buy a shorter, adjustable stem and that will help bring you closer and more upright relative to the handlebar. However, the shorter the stem the quirkier the handling, particularly when you are cornering. Also, your seatpost is most likely a setback, which puts you back about an inch further than a straight seatpost. Changing that will help bring you closer to the handlebars and put less pressure on your wrists, shoulders, and neck.

The brakes can be shimmed so that reach it shorter. I've added shims to mine and it made it a lot nicer.

Another thought--have you looked at a Terry bike? They can ship it to your local bike shop and you can test ride it for a period. If it doesn't fit, your bike shop can ship it back and you are out a minimal fee. If you have questions about fit, e-mail Georgena Terry and she will usually promptly reply to your questions. I don't usually recommend ordering a bike without first test riding it, but if you are having trouble finding a bike that fits, you may have to resort to more drastic measures. :)

A custom made bike won't necessarily put you out more money than a stock bike on the floor of your lbs. It will fit you better and really, that's what it all boils down to. If it doesn't fit, you won't ride.

Good luck with your search and hope this helps.

[MartianDestiny]

Eden is so right, the shop wants to sell you whats on the floor.

Not every shop. Mine's never batted an eye while ordering me bikes. EVEN when they have one that's the right size but "wrong" color or "wrong" components sitting on the floor.

Of course I've never batted an eye with them about paying their asking price either.

Unfortunately, however, there are many many shops that have forgotten (or never knew) the love of bikes and just want to make a sale :mad::(

[MartianDestiny]

Also, your seatpost is most likely a setback, which puts you back about an inch further than a straight seatpost. Changing that will help bring you closer to the handlebars and put less pressure on your wrists, shoulders, and neck. .

You should NOT change your seat position to make up for reach. You'll just end up moving the problem to your legs. If a bike shop tries to do this and they are not looking for knee/ball of foot/pedal alignment run away. Different seat posts allow you to get the proper position relative to the *crank* for optimal power to the cranks and to prevent injury to your knees, etc.

If you can't adjust reach from the correct saddle position using stem and bar swaps the bike doesn't fit you.

Otherwise Sundial's post about small changes being able to make a big difference is very true.

[ms1]

After about 6 months of trying to find the right road bike, the right bike shop and the right help at the right shop, I bought a 2009 47 cm Trek Madone 4.5 wsd and I'm in love with it.

I didn't really believe everyone saying how important the right LBS, but now I'm a true believer. Bob at Guy's Bicycles outside Phila is a genius. He worked patiently with me and ultimately swapped out the stem, handlebars and break levers (to short reach levers).

Thanks to everyone for their wonderful advice.

[Biciclista]

nice bike! thanks for getting back to us!

[Owlie]

Ooh, very nice.

[NbyNW]

Congrats! I missed your thread the first time around since I was traveling, but I can appreciate how difficult it is to find a bike as a petite woman, and I love a happy ending!

[Tropical Scream]

What a beautiful bike.

[chicagogal]

Congrats on your new bike!!!!!!

I too got my 1st road bike this year, and after test riding several, I wasn't convinced I'd like the new riding position (had been more upright before). But then I found a LBS to take very extensive measurements and fit me to the perfect bike. I knew as soon as I got on it that it was "my" bike (I just had to pay for it first!)

I've had people on rides look at me and say "wow, that bike really fits you great!"

Anyway, I know what you went through to get that perfectly fitting bike - and it is a beauty!

Happy miles.

[lunacycles]

I definitely want carbon and cannot afford custom.

huh? as much as I know, entry level carbon is generally in the same price range as entry level custom.


Also, your seatpost is most likely a setback, which puts you back about an inch further than a straight seatpost. Changing that will help bring you closer to the handlebars and put less pressure on your wrists, shoulders, and neck

This is the least desirable way to "compensate" for too long of a reach. Your baseline when being fit should be your position on the saddle, relative to the crank. Manipulating this to attain desired reach is considered a no-no, and can lead to knee problems, amongst other probs...

AT 5' tall, you have your work cut out for you finding a road bike, very most especially a road bike with 700c wheels, that really, truly fits you.

[Kathi]

My last two were fit to me by a master fitter (he teaches people to fit bikes).

Would he be at SG?

[ms1]

huh? as much as I know, entry level carbon is generally in the same price range as entry level custom.



This is the least desirable way to "compensate" for too long of a reach. Your baseline when being fit should be your position on the saddle, relative to the crank. Manipulating this to attain desired reach is considered a no-no, and can lead to knee problems, amongst other probs...

AT 5' tall, you have your work cut out for you finding a road bike, very most especially a road bike with 700c wheels, that really, truly fits you.

Well, out of curiosity, I checked your your website and your custom bike with a carbon fork and seat stays (whereas mine is full carbon) is at least 50% more than I paid with comparable components.

I do not claim to be an expert, but I can manage a rough side by side comparison. Your bike may be better for many reasons, and it looks like you've taken a lot of care and interest in women's fit and component issues, but it is solidly more expensive than my Trek, which by the way, I'm quite happy with.

[lunacycles]

Well, out of curiosity, I checked your your website and your custom bike with a carbon fork and seat stays (whereas mine is full carbon) is at least 50% more than I paid with comparable components.

I do not claim to be an expert, but I can manage a rough side by side comparison. Your bike may be better for many reasons, and it looks like you've taken a lot of care and interest in women's fit and component issues, but it is solidly more expensive than my Trek, which by the way, I'm quite happy with.

Hey I wasn't attacking your choice, I was disputing your claims. You didn't say custom with carbon stays. You said entry level custom, or that's how I interpreted it. My custom bikes start around $3k. Last time I checked, that wasn't more expensive than an entry level stock carbon bike, but I don't hang out in bike stores much lately, so I shouldn't have even "gone there" I suppose.

I am happy you are happy with your bike. That's really the point in my opinion. Happy.:)

[tulip]

IMO, if you're going to spend $2000-$3000+ on a bike, you're way better off going for custom. You get so much more for your money--better fit, more choices of components, color, quality. For some people, it's also important to support small businesses, but not everyone subscribes to that notion.

But that's just me. Glad you're fine with your bike, too.