Decreasing Weight

[pink monkey]

I am hoping someone can give me advice on reducing weight on my mtn bike. I have been riding a hardtail and my husband just ordered me a new Kona Lisa Four!

I'd like to get it as light as possible without shelling out a lot of money (everyone's dream, right?). I was told i'd go a lot slower with more weight of a full suspension. I ride with all guys so it's important to me to be able to keep up with them, which i already struggle with on my hardtail!

If someone could recommend what I should upgrade first, and to what, that would be great! Thanks in advance!!

Here are the specs:
Frame tubing Kona Race Light Scandium Butted, 4" Travel
Fork RockShox Dart 2 w/ Turnkey 100mm
Rear Shock RockShox ARIO 2.2
Headset TH
Crankarms FSA Alpha Drive Exo
Chainrings 44/32/22
B/B FSA Powerdrive Exo
Pedals Shimano M505 Clipless
Chain KMC HG53
Freewheel Shimano Deore (11-32, 9spd)
F/D Shimano Deore
R/D Shimano LX
Shifters Shimano Deore
Handlebar Kona XC/BC
Stem Kona XC/BC
Grips Kona Lisa
Brakes Hayes Stroker Ryde Hydraulic V6
Brake Levers Hayes Stroker Ryde Hydraulic
Front hub KK Disc
Rear hub Shimano M475 disc
Spokes Stainless 14g
Tires Maxxis Ignitor 26 x 2.1
Rims Alex ACE-18
Saddle WTB Speed SHE Comp
Seatpost Kona XC/BC
Seat clamp Kona QR
Color Pink/White

[Zen]

You don't ask for much in a first post, do ya?

[pink monkey]

not much help for your 6,232th post, are ya? ;)

should i have started with: What color bike should i get??

[pinkbikes]

Yep - that's quite a question!:D

OK, well I had a Kona Lisa HT and shifted to a full suspension rig. To be honest I didn't notice it was heavier (possibly because I shelled out lots of money and it is probably actually lighter) at all. What I did notice was increased confidence in bombing over all surfaces and greater comfort, so you may find that there is a trade-off and you won't be any slower at all. And it's a NICE looking bike btw - I have a real soft spot for the Konas since my first MTB was one and that one looks sweet!

In terms of answering your question...

You can fiddle around with a few lighter bits and pieces here and there, but if you really want to keep up with the guys, the best gain is to reduce your rotating mass at large diameter. So probably my first stop would be lighter rims and tyres. That means you don't have to work so hard to accelerate your wheels and keep them rolling. It'd be your single biggest gain I think particularly for climbing.

That being said, I really liked the Ignitors and took them off my Lisa and put them on my Specialized (which utterly scandalised the mechanic at the shop) instead of the nice light tyres it came with!:eek: I find the ignitors very confidence-inspiring with their good solid edge tread. They have lots of bite and have saved me many a time. They are also really good for shedding mud so are a good all-around tyre for where I ride.

You can fiddle around with carbon blingy bits and save yourself maybe a half a pound or so. By all means do it if you like the bling factor - but IMHO a good poop is going to save you as much weight and help you keep up just as well!

If it were me I would be saving up that carbon money to upgrade the rear derailleur to a better spec, as I see that as the weakest link in this set-up. And at some stage you may decide you want a better fork?

So, in summary...

The bike seems to be specced at a consistent level. Fiddling around the edges with a few light bits will probably get you nowhere in terms of keeping up with the boys, but do it if you like the look of the bits. The biggest gains will be in wheels (for rotating weight), then rear derailleur and fork (for better mechanical performance).

It's a sweet-looking bike - hope you enjoy it.:)



PS: Maybe ride it first - you may find that they are talking crap and you are no slower!?

[Irulan]

Yep, wheels are where you'll get your most weight savings. Consider the other stuff very carefully: you get to a point where you are better off saving your money for a whole new rig.

[sundial]

I saved weight by going with lighter cranks, lighter rims, and tubeless tires. You can add lighter road type components to your mtb but it may not be as durable, depending on what you use. Seatpost, saddle and handlebar could also be lightened but the savings in the rotational weight will make the biggest difference in handling. ;)

[solobiker]

Yep, wheels are where you'll get your most weight savings. Consider the other stuff very carefully: you get to a point where you are better off saving your money for a whole new rig.


I agree.

[pink monkey]

Thank you!!! everyone for the responses! :)

pinkbikes, how did you like your kona ht? I am really excited about getting my bike, but a little nervous because i've never ridden a kona and didnt get to try it out beforehand. I've never ridden a full suspension either! I'm hoping for a smoother ride too - where i ride it is super rocky and there are a lot of downhill portions. I feel like i'm getting jerked around a lot. (P.s. i'll def. try riding it first before I make any purchases. I think i just have pre-jitters! haha :) )

I am looking for major weight differences, like wheels and cranks. I dont really have the money to waste on upgrading small tiny-weight saving things. I think I am most worried about reducing weight because where I ride, there is a portion where it's completely uphill for about 8 miles. This is where I have to work to keep up with the main group. I just dont want to drop to the back! I think with my new bike I will be adding on a couple of pounds of bike weight.

Starting with the wheels would be a good idea. Can anyone recommend a set to get for a reasonable price?

[kenyonchris]

I ride with all men, and struggled on my hardtail. When I went to F/S I did not notice AT ALL the weight difference. I went a lot faster from the get go because it let me tackle some things that I was simply not strong enough to do on the hardtail (I would wind up putting a foot down and pushing off).
I did notice some difference when I went tubeless.
Funny, I spend a lot of time cutting grams on my roadbike, but don't really care on the MTB.

[Zen]

not much help for your 6,232th post, are ya? ;)



A lot of people start here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=2001&highlight=introduction)
or with a lovely post like this one (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=31099).

Honestly, I was smelling spam for a moment there.

[pinkbikes]

pinkbikes, how did you like your kona ht? I am really excited about getting my bike, but a little nervous because i've never ridden a kona and didnt get to try it out beforehand. I've never ridden a full suspension either! I'm hoping for a smoother ride too - where i ride it is super rocky and there are a lot of downhill portions. I feel like i'm getting jerked around a lot. (P.s. i'll def. try riding it first before I make any purchases. I think i just have pre-jitters! haha :) )

I am looking for major weight differences, like wheels and cranks. I dont really have the money to waste on upgrading small tiny-weight saving things. I think I am most worried about reducing weight because where I ride, there is a portion where it's completely uphill for about 8 miles. This is where I have to work to keep up with the main group. I just dont want to drop to the back! I think with my new bike I will be adding on a couple of pounds of bike weight.

Starting with the wheels would be a good idea. Can anyone recommend a set to get for a reasonable price?

Hi pink monkey.

I really enjoy my Kona Lisa HT. I had always been a dedicated roadie and didn't see myself enjoying the "inefficiency" of MTB. I think this is because I'd only tried riding my DH's Mongoose dually which was as heavy as lead and like riding a tractor, not to mention way too big for me since he is a neat foot taller than me!

So when I actually decided to try MTB (I watched a 24hour race that looked like just WAY too much fun) I wanted to make sure I got a bike that was of a decent enough standard that I would find out if I really wouldn't like MTB or if it was just the equipment that was putting me off.

I spent time riding a few bikes and kept coming back to the Lisa because it just fitted like a glove (was the first time I'd ever tried a WSD bike) and felt great. But it was really a very "in your face pink!" And I've never been so much a pink kind of girl! So I circled it a fair bit before my head finally overcame my heart and I bought it anyway.

I liked that it had a decent level of components and I just loved the ignitor tyres (not actually why you'd buy a bike but just got lucky with first tyre choice) and I lived with the pink. It was a great bike to learn on and people just rave over the colour. I must say, at the time (almost two years ago now) there was very little pink about bikes and it was really easy to find it when you parked it in a big pile of bikes! Now - not so easy!

Of course since then I have another pink bike (my dually is a 2009 Specialized Era Marathon in anodised pink) so I have turned my Lisa into my commuter bike. I still enjoy using it to ride to work or meetings around town. The only thing that I'm not that fond of is the seat. I used to really like the WTB Speed She but since I have been riding the Spesh with the Ariel I just can't seem to get comfy on it anymore.

You will probably notice the smoother ride a lot since you ride in rough areas. Our area has some rocky descents in particular and I find the rear suspension really gives me a lot more confidence in zipping down them. I did a 24hour race on the Lisa in April last year and then another in June after I bought the Spesh. I did similar number of miles in each race but found there was just no comparison in how my butt felt at the end of each race! Dually wins hands down!

As for which wheels? Not really sure what you can get or what price tag you're going to be looking at for them over there! I DO know anything is expensive by the time you mail them out to us in Oz!

The Spesh came with some nice light DT Swiss XT 4.2D rims and DT Swiss hubs and spokes. I have no idea where they fit in the spectrum of "nice wheels" and no idea of what they sell for retail. All I know is that they are damned light compared with the Sun Black Eyes that came on the Kona (even when I put the tyres from the Kona on them) and I really noticed the difference in how well I could climb on them. Since climbing is definitely going to be where you want your gain - I definitely think the wheels are most worth pursuing.

[pink monkey]

pinkbikes,
a pink specialized era marathon?! :eek: that is my DREAM bike!! That bike is so gorgeous!!! I drool everytime i see it either in shop or in a picture. If only I had the skill level to justify its purchase... I'm the complete opposite of you, what attracted me to the kona four lisa was the fact that it was pink. :) That, and DH got a sweet deal on a new one. I hope it'll increase my confidence in going downhill. I can beat half of the guys uphill but i'm always last down! I get a lot of jokes about having to replace my brakes frequently since I tend to ride them the entire way down. :p

[bluebug32]

I second all the rim/tire suggestions. Just wanted to say how nice it is to see some Kona love on here. I have 3 Konas and I love 'em!

[pinkbikes]

pinkbikes,
a pink specialized era marathon?! :eek: that is my DREAM bike!! That bike is so gorgeous!!! I drool everytime i see it either in shop or in a picture. If only I had the skill level to justify its purchase... I'm the complete opposite of you, what attracted me to the kona four lisa was the fact that it was pink. :) That, and DH got a sweet deal on a new one. I hope it'll increase my confidence in going downhill. I can beat half of the guys uphill but i'm always last down! I get a lot of jokes about having to replace my brakes frequently since I tend to ride them the entire way down. :p

Skill, schmill! I have precious little of that! When people pass me in races (it happens) and say "Hey - nice bike!" my usual reply is "Yeah but I spent so much on the bike I couldn't afford the legs that match it!" That would be in between all the puffing and panting because it is usually up some rotten hill!

If I bought a bike to match my skill level I might be riding on a Kmart bike!:rolleyes: But I did get an absolutely screaming deal on it ($1k off really talks to me) and that opportunity was not going to come again, so I just plunged in and did it. And long after the memory has faded of how it hurt to part with the money, it puts a smile on my face each and every time I ride it! I just grin like an idiot!:D

And as for the brakes jokes - they won't stop. When I ride with DH he always says "Hey, I'll have a look at those brakes for you when we get home - they must be dragging!" NICE!:p Ride them all you like - that's what they are FOR!

[pinkbikes]

I second all the rim/tire suggestions. Just wanted to say how nice it is to see some Kona love on here. I have 3 Konas and I love 'em!

Heheh! I had so much "Kona love" last weekend after I washed the pinkie that I took it across the road into the park and took some "glamour photos" of it!:D

Then I got all excited and took the Spesh over too since it was all nice and clean and freshly bottom-bracket greased (seems slightly rude really) and took pics of it too.

And the tandem. And the roadie. Bit TOO much bike love going on here really!:o

[laura*]

Frame tubing Kona Race Light Scandium Butted, 4" Travel

I'm almost done building an XC MTB on a VooDoo Sobo Scandium frame. The bare frame is scary light. I expect your Kona frame would be too, especially as the VooDoo's designer also works for Kona.


Freewheel Shimano Deore (11-32, 9spd)

You could save a bit of weight by upgrading to one of the cassettes that uses an aluminum cog carrier: XTR, Deore XT, or HG80.


Spokes Stainless 14g

If you get lighter rims, you could also get lighter double (or triple) butted spokes. Also, instead of rim tape or those big rubber band things, consider Velocity VeloPlugs. They'll reduce rotating weight all the way out by the tire.

[pink monkey]

I'm almost done building an XC MTB on a VooDoo Sobo Scandium frame. The bare frame is scary light. I expect your Kona frame would be too, especially as the VooDoo's designer also works for Kona.

You could save a bit of weight by upgrading to one of the cassettes that uses an aluminum cog carrier: XTR, Deore XT, or HG80.

If you get lighter rims, you could also get lighter double (or triple) butted spokes. Also, instead of rim tape or those big rubber band things, consider Velocity VeloPlugs. They'll reduce rotating weight all the way out by the tire.

Thanks Laura! I have a friend who is going to give me the XTR cassette off his bike before he sells it so i'm set there. :) Good thinking about the wheels! I didnt even think about the spokes or tape. I heard with the Kona four, they decreased the weight of the frame but then hung heavier parts on it... which was disappointing, but i guess good for now cause it kept price down.

[pink monkey]

I second all the rim/tire suggestions. Just wanted to say how nice it is to see some Kona love on here. I have 3 Konas and I love 'em!

awesome! I'm glad to hear that other people love Konas! I was getting a little nervous about it because you dont see very many Konas around. Even in the shops that do carry Konas I hardly see very many of them. :) I hope I love it as much as I think I already do!! :D

[pink monkey]

Skill, schmill! I have precious little of that! When people pass me in races (it happens) and say "Hey - nice bike!" my usual reply is "Yeah but I spent so much on the bike I couldn't afford the legs that match it!" That would be in between all the puffing and panting because it is usually up some rotten hill!

If I bought a bike to match my skill level I might be riding on a Kmart bike!:rolleyes: But I did get an absolutely screaming deal on it ($1k off really talks to me) and that opportunity was not going to come again, so I just plunged in and did it. And long after the memory has faded of how it hurt to part with the money, it puts a smile on my face each and every time I ride it! I just grin like an idiot!:D

And as for the brakes jokes - they won't stop. When I ride with DH he always says "Hey, I'll have a look at those brakes for you when we get home - they must be dragging!" NICE!:p Ride them all you like - that's what they are FOR!

you are so lucky! if i could have gotten a great deal on it, I might not have been able to resist. That's what happened with my road bike... saw it was pink, fit great, and was a killer deal... I just had to have it! DH's face when i got home was priceless... Good thing my old bike sold so fast otherwise I would probably of been in trouble!! I have never been able go to the bike shop again without a warning or my cc taken away. haha! :D One of these days I hope to find a used era for a killer price... hopefully after my Kona needs to be upgraded, not before i even get it!! :o DH would be hurt if I asked to trade his present for me!

Glad to hear that i'm not the only one getting the brake jokes! I'm trying to learn to ease up on them, but then the last time i panicked and slammed on them... which sent me up and over my bike. haha, gotta love it...

[tzvia]

Pink Monkey-
I second what others have said here about the wheels (rotating weight). They have a major impact on the feel of the ride and since they rotate (move) faster than non rotating parts, are where most of your energy is going. Cranks too, to a lesser degree.

Now while I am not a weight weenie, I do think about it, and have been working on lightening my Giant Anthem. I bought lighter wheels (ended up with Easton XC Ones but next time will have some built) and the XT crankset (much lighter than the Race Face that was on before). Between just those two, I lost over a pound! And the wheels make the bike just so much more responsive and easier for me to climb. Tires are another matter, what came with my bike were Kenda Small Block 8s. Yes very light; no very bad for anything other than hardpack. So I gained weight by switching to the F/R combo of Nevegal/WTB Weirwolf Race. Gained back almost all of what I lost in the wheels and cranks but got better loose/sand/climbing and braking.

The handlebar was upgraded to the Race Face Next SL Carbon- lighter than the stock one but not by much- but it does take some of the buzz from the grip, and the seatpost replaced with a Thompson Masterpiece (not the lightest- but the best IMO, and much lighter than the crappy boat anchor the bike came with.) And I just bought the XT shadow rear derailleur (sale at the LBS woohoo). It was much lighter than the LX! And put a lighter, more comfortable Bontrager Inform RL saddle on it.

In the end, the bike is only about a pound less than what it was when I bought it (been doing this over the last year), but it climbs better, corners better, brakes better, is more comfortable at the seat and bars, shifts better (XT Shadow shifts without that CLUNK), and I have a spare wheelset that I can mount those crappy Small Blocks on for hardpack/street riding.

So I really don't think of it as weight loss, but improving the handling and dirt worthiness of the bike, and tweaking it to fit you. That's why I say that I'm really not a weight weenie ;)

[Irulan]

Kona Lisa...

That is about a $1000 bike if you pay retail.
So, light wheels, maybe a $ $150-300 upgrade?
New tires, $40-60 each?
Crankset, $150-600
cassette upgrade $30-150,

(I just pulled some prices off Performance)

ismsho, ride the crap out of the new bike, wear it out, wreck it a few time and then go upgrade the whole darn thing.. A few ounces or even a pound here and there is not going to make a huge difference on an 8 mile grade, but improving your fitness through a committed training program ought to yield results in a matter of weeks.

[Aggie_Ama]

A lot of people I ride with that ride full suspension actually say they climb faster than HT. My husband would like to rebuild his HT for the non-technical courses on his race schedule but loves his full for the climbing courses or the western parts which are all rocky.

I don't have much suggestion on upgrading just what I have heard from others who went full suspension. I ride a HT right now as my first bike.

[pink monkey]

wow, thanks for the great advice, everyone! I never thought i'd get this much feedback!! :)

I think I am going to wait till i get my bike and do a couple of rides on it before I make any big decisions or pricey upgrades. If i do upgrade anything, it will probably be just the wheels and the cranks. THough, I have a friend who is going to give me a XT cassettee and rear derailleur for free. :D

Irulan does have a good point - if i did upgrade a lot of stuff, i might as well of gotten my dream era or even the pink myka!! both of which were technically out of my price range. :o