Weights anybody?

[Dogmama]

Miss Liz talked about weight training a few times and I'd like to echo what she said about cross training. It's really important to keep muscle mass, therefore bone mass, at an optimal level. I weight train 3-4X/week, a "push/pull" split. I really love it because it isn't boring, you can get through it fairly quickly and it really works. Plus, when serious cycling starts in the Spring, you'll be amazed how much stronger your legs are uphill.

Also, I'd much rather have defined arms than the bird arms I see on the aerobic bunnies in the gym. (oooh...was that out loud?):p

Kim

[Irulan]

How much time do you spend in the gym?

I used to be a competitive body builder (years ago) and spent 3+ hours a day in the gym, 6 days a week. Yeah the results were awesome... but I had a moment one day in front of the mirror whne I realized since I was not actually competing, just training "as if" if were *what *was * the*point.

This was a long time ago, and since then I've gone in and out of it as as augmentation to being ready for my other sports. My body responds really well to weight training but right now I am at a place where I just can not stand to be inside, in the gym. When I do use weights, it's more from a wellness and cross training POV. I've got some back/neck/shoulder issues that really benefit from light weights.

I've always conditioned for ski season with weights and a lot of gym training. Funny thing is, last year I didn't pre-train, I just kept on riding my mountain bike and I was equally if not better conditioned than if I had prepared in the gym.

Irulan

[goddess1222]

i weight train a ton. especially for cycling. posture is important. i was told by a cycling coach that i had great posture which is something you don't see with cyclists.
i know how hard it can be to be inside lifting when there is so much else to do outside. i lift with headphones in my ears so i don't get distracted. i love being able to occupy my brain with music instead of always looking at the clock on the wall.

lately, the trend seems to be that i am seeing more women in the weight room. i love this. it gives a good balance, and the men don't have the right to HOG the equipment. yes, that's right guys, you must SHARE. since most of the women have better technique and form than most of the men do. why? because they ask how to use the equipment. women are just plain fabulous. I JUST LOVE US!!!!!!!!

[MM_QFC!]

not only do they "generally" (that means I'm acknowledging a generalization here, but based on experience and observation) HOG the equipment, but guys need to start being more considerate and wiping down after using said equipment...too many times guys seem to get so wrapped up in their own world, that they grab their towel and go on to the next in the circuit, leaving a sweaty surface for the next user - yeccchhh!

[Dogmama]

I agree with the generalizations and will add my own:

Sometimes, the gym sounds like a maternity ward with the grunting and yelling. Come on, if we want to see how much weight you're lifting, we'll watch you!!!

I spend about 30-45 minutes / 5 days/week lifting. Then I'll do about 30 minutes of cardio (step mills are great!) with a good book. Right now, the weather is awful outside, so this is how I get my endorphin fix.

Regarding boredom, if I can get into a very concentrated, meditative state and really pay attention to form - muscles worked, both eccentric and concentric moves - it's almost as good as a yoga class. There is a great website for women who lift:
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html. I like the phrase she has: "You're going to hell unless you worship the Goddess of form!".

I do a split routine, right now it is push/pull. I'll be changing again soon. I always build my session around a major lift (squats, bench press or pull ups) and do assistive type lifts (squat day would be calf raises, leg extensions and hamstring curls, for example) around it.

I'll probably be going to a three day split: legs, chest/back, arms/shoulders.

I'm 48 years young, so I'm not into body building, per se. I want to keep strong on the bike (tricep exercises are helpful for keeping a good aerodynamic tuck on the road bike, for example).

Kim

[adzarkos]

I am an "eeny-weeny" beginner to both weight training and mountain biking. (It didn't take long to get hooked on both...) The gym I belong to has a class called "Free Weights 101 for Women" and it's excellent, especially if you're new to it.

Have any of you determined which types of weight training exercises are the most beneficial to your riding? I know posture is an issue for me...can you suggest anything specific to help? Also, I tend to feel as if I've been doing one really long push-up during and after riding. Is that an "arm-strength" issue? Any suggestions?

[Dogmama]

Posture is a big thing with cycling. Ab and lower back exercises (e.g., crunches, low back extensions, side bends) are all good. For your upper body, you already realized that cycling can make it seems like you've been doing a push up for an hour. So, chest exercises like bench press, push ups, etc. are good. Those also work the front deltoid, which tends to get worked in cycling. Triceps exercises like triceps pushdowns are good.

Very important to not neglect the back, biceps and legs. You don't want a muscular imbalance. Rows and lat pulldowns are good for the back. Any kind of pushing exercise is good for the legs.

Probably the best all around exercise is squats. It works your entire leg plus engages your back and abs to help stablize the weight.

Kim

[han-grrl]

speaking of imbalances, watch out for chest exercises. if you look at the typical person these days (who in fact spends hours in front of a computer), you will notice a hunched over posture. what this means is that the chest muscles are in fact TIGHT and need to be stretched while upper back muscles are stretched and need to be strengthened.

also if you are seated all day, hip flexors and hamstrings are also muscles that are tight and need stretching.

the squat is an amazing exercise, i would suggest beginners start with squats with the ball (against the wall).

the fact is everyone is different, and i highly recommend going to a personal trainer a) to learn the proper exercises and form, b) to come up with a program that is more specific to your goals as well as your body type.

good luck!

Hannah

[Dogmama]

A personal trainer is a really nice beginning to any weight program. Just make sure you get one who knows what s/he is doing. I go to Bally's & I'm amazed at how many personal trainers are staring out the window while their client is muffing an exercise.

One way I keep my chest from getting tight is I use a full range of motion for all exercises. You have to be careful because when you bring your arms back (think pinching a pencil between your shoulder blades) your shoulder joint can be compromised depending on your anatomy. A personal trainer can show you how to do a bench press where you can bring the bar all the way to your chest and then push up using primarily chest muscles and not shoulder (anterior delt) muscles. (Hint: you don't lock your elbows at full extension and you concentrate on squeezing your pectoral muscles as you push the bar up while keeping your shoulders folded underneath you).

Back exercises also help keep the chest expanded. In rowing or lat pulldown exercises, imagine that you're squeezing a pencil between your shoulder blades. You will automatically expand your chest.

Squats should be done without weights to begin with. Be sure that you focus on keeping your weight on your heels, pushing up with your heels so that you don't overstress your knees. Also, keep your back as straight as possible. You will lean slightly forward (but not too much if your weight is on your heels) and your back should NOT be rounded at all. It's important to get the form right (hence, no weights) before you progress to actual lifting.

Sorry if this is too long. I really believe in weight training for women.

Kim

[adzarkos]

Here's another question:

I went to the "Free Weights 101" class the other day (it was lower body, we did mainly squats and I didn't use weights at all...) and then went on a mountain bike ride yesterday. Today I'm so sore I can hardly move. No cramps, just sore muscles. (It's actually nice to feel the muscles in my butt for once, maybe I'm not doomed to have a square butt after all...)

Do you have any specific stretches that might help with the soreness?

I'm trying to pound down the water right now and I think I'll go sit in the tub for a while too. Hopefully I'll be able to get OUT of the tub... ;)

[Dogmama]

This is my all time favorite butt-muscle stretch:

Sit in a chair & put your right ankle on top of your left knee. Now bend forward. Ahhh!!! Switch sides & repeat.

Kim

[goddess1222]

yes, being sore is one way to know that what you have done has worked. your muscles are sore because there are now micro tears within, and it is working to "re sew" your muscle back together and stronger. there is probably a good deal of lactic acid buildup as well from your trip on the mountain bike.

doing an easy spin(i mean eeeasssy) will help work out some of the lactic acid residue left within the muscles.

also, light stretching like the quad stretch( stand, grab ankle with hand and slowly rotate pelvis forward). and the simple hamstring stretch( feet shoulder width apart, bend forward, push buttocks toward the sky, protect your back and don't bounce).

if you are into yoga, doing a very light routine will also help with the soreness.

congratulations on such a great workout. keep us posted.

do you ever notice that in the weight room it is the women who have better form and technique than the men? i see it every day.

[goddess1222]

I MUST SECOND DOGMAMA. THAT BUTT STRETCH ROCKS!!!!!!!! OHHHHHHH FEELS SO GOOD.

[IronHorse213]

Morning all!

When I decided to weight train to prepare for biking again for the first time in many years I did hire a trainer. I didn't know much about weights and having hurt myself before using lite weights, didn't care to do it again.

My trainer developed a routine of sets in that push/pull order working all the large muscle groups (och!) and it did hurt and was hard, but one warm day in January, after about 6 weeks training, I jumped on my mtn bike and pedaled over to the sports fields and walking path I rode on to get used to my new bike last fall. I remember last fall I really had to exert energy to get those wide tires to move. After 6 weeks of squats, abs, back raises, chest press, hamstring curls and the dreaded/despised lunges, I ZOOOOOOMED!

I have never been so happy in the 20 best years of my life combined as I was for that 7.2 miles and the rest of that afternoon!

Now I run to the gym and endure the pain/and/orboredom by remembering that joy.

'calla
IronHorse warrior

[Dogmama]

I hate lunges too. Did you do walking (moving) lunges or stationary lunges? I know they're good for cycling muscles.

I like the push/pull routine. One routine I do is one day of push exercises (bench press, squats, leg extensions, overhead press) and one day of pull exercises (rows, lat pull downs, hamstring curls & abs). The nice thing about that routine is you can move quickly between exercises because you're working different muscle groups & be out of the gym faster.

Kim

[Terry]

I would like to add that if you really hate lunges and sqauts, try doing them on a fitness ball. Squats are still hard work, but if you support your back on the ball you won't strain as much, plus, hit the muscle group intended (as in avoiding hurting the lower back).

You can also do a lunges on the ball by sitting side ways, hand on a wall and lunging up and down so your bottom hits the ball as you lower. They are much harder than you think.

I like doing these 2 muscle groups in this fashion because they do not put a lot of pressure on the knees/give good back support...but, they are still hard!

Terry

[IronHorse213]

Hi Dogmama, all,

You asked: I hate lunges too. Did you do walking (moving) lunges or stationary lunges? I know they're good for cycling muscles.

My trainer had me doing lunges on a Smith machine, which (for those who are unfamiliar) is a large machine that holds the weight bar for you (sorta) and allows you to position it across the shoulders and move up and down with it (but if you droped it the machine is built to catch it). this particular method was horrible for a woman of my height - barely 5 feet and the bar position was very uncomfortable and a problem with my narrow shoulders. It became a point of contention between the trainer and myself and added to my change of trainers. (several knowledgeable folks had told me to not do lunges this way)

What I started to do after that was 3 sets of stationary lunges with no weights- 12 on weaker leg, and immediately switch to other with no rest - and that KILLED all by itself. I have as yet not been able to add weights to this.

Squats, lunges and dead lifts (squats with the additon of picking up a weighted bar) are great for the gluts and for cycling.

Anyone else have suggestions?

'calla
Iron Horse warrior

[Irulan]

i Love what you call "walking lunges" I've always called them Lunge Steps. They are the Killer. I've started with 2/25 walking the lenght of the basketball gym. They are way easy to over do.'
I have worked up to 2/150... Now that will get you ready for anything!!

The advantages to doing a moving lunge over a stationery one are many. You are using you body weight for resistance, and typically doing more so that you are building muscle endurance and strength. It develops the body's proprioceptive sense... balance and awareness of where you are in space, which is excellent for all sports. Plus it works the core a little more.

Irulan

[adzarkos]

Have any of you ever tried the "Super Slow" workout? My husband has recently started doing that with his trainer and can't say enough about it. Also, what about Yoga or Pilates? Have any of you done those and noticed a difference in your cycling?

[Dogmama]

Yeah, I'd like to know about pilates too. My gym is going to be offering an intensive course and I was thinking that it might be good for core strength - for us roadies that hold a position for hours on end.

Re: smith machine lunges. I've done them & I like them. I step backwards, not forwards. That really works your glutes. Also, if you stand on a step & step backwards (and down, obviously) you can get a very deep bend that works the glutes. You'll really feel it the next day, so don't go to failure.

I've heard trainers say that walking lunges are hard on the knees. I disagree - I think if people are placing their knees at odd angles, they need to (1) decrease the weight they're holding or (2) stop lunging when tired.

Leg extensions are good for the quads. I like seated hamstring curls because I think it replicates the pulling back motion on the bike better than lying hamstring curls.


Squats are definately the Queen of All Leg Exercises. Not Smith squats - the old fashion kind with the bar across your shoulders in a squat rack. I love squatting. It works your trunk as well as legs.

Kim

[Terry]

I completely agree that squats are the "queen" of leg movements.
(actually, the honest to goodness term is that they are the "grand-daddy of all leg workouts" coined by an old body builder from the south, Boyer Coe).

I can also add that once you build really strong leg muscles, you just need to maintain them. You really don't have to beat them up week after week. However, since quads/hams are a large muscle group, they will take time to "grow". It comes easy for woman to build-up the quad faster than men...male hip structure is different than women. My clients do legs every 4th day during a building phase. After that, we split the leg groups over 3 workouts a week...also, don't for get the inner thighs.

Postitioning is everything when doing lunges/squats. I always advise clients to widen their stance. If not, you will step under yourself and loose balance/hurt the knees during lunges/squats. You can distribute the weight a bit better if your feet are the width of your hips (which is usually a bit wider than the shoulders). Also, you must take care of knees and make sure you can handle the weight being handed to you.
Terry
Oh yeah,
Core work is good stuff...I just use a few positions and do yoga.
However, I have a bias...I teach yoga almost every day.
Terry

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Dogmama
.

I've heard trainers say that walking lunges are hard on the knees. I disagree - I think if people are placing their knees at odd angles, they need to (1) decrease the weight they're holding or (2) stop lunging when tired.
Kim [/B]

hmm interesting The gal who taught them to me is a trainer. head trainer for the local community college system. I've never heard anything bad about lunge steps, only good. You do have to be careful to not get the knee forward tho, that is one pimortant thing.

Irulan

[goddess1222]

knee positioning during lunges is essential. if your knee goes beyond your ankle, you are extending too far. keep the knee in line with the ankle as you "lunge." it is actually much harder to keep good technique with this exercise. i find i must concentrate on shifting my weight "back" a little to keep my knee from going over my ankle.

PILATES IS GREAT. the first time i tried it i went home with my tail tucked between my legs . it was really challenging. i was sore in very new places. pilates will do wonders for core strength.

[missliz]

Pilates is awesome for cycling, it's all bout core strength and once you have solid gut muscles you'll sit the bike like a Tour rider. Abs are just the top layer- there are all sorts of weird little muscles inside the torso. Theres a big one on the pelvic floor that stabilizes every thing, too, and if you're too lazy to go to Pilates you can bust it hard by doing big dumbell presses on a flat bench with your knees bent and feet on the bench. This will goose the abs, too. All those muscles kick in to hold the torso stable as you press.
The best part about this little extra- the pelvic floor muscles stabilize the SI joints, very vulnerable in cyclists.

missliz

Forgot- make sure your back is flat, and pull the abs down towards the floor. After a few weeks, you'll quit feeling these muscles you never knew were in there, then it's time to shift to tougher more exotic ab work- you'll be able to do it, too.

[han-grrl]

Squats and lunges are awesome leg exercises. I call them "all purpose" exercises, in that they use many muscle groups:

legs (duh), but did you think about abs and back that are holding you up? also those arms holding the weights, they are stabilizing the exercise too.

Always be careful with body position especially the knees. this is the common error i see with people in the gym.

I am not crazy about hamstring machine exercises but try this one on for size: i give this one to my clients:

http://www.onlinefit.com/health/index.cfm/Exercise/381

it works the hamstrings as both a hip extender and a knee flexor, as well as abs and back. The glutes are worked as well but only a bit. It's awesome because there are so many variations to make it more difficult.


Have fun!

Han

[MightyMitre]

I'm interested to hear more about strengthing your core muscles as I'm a roadie and could do with a bit more stength in my torso /upper body.



Pilates is awesome for cycling, it's all bout core strength and once you have solid gut muscles you'll sit the bike like a Tour rider.


Core work is good stuff...I just use a few positions and do yoga. Terry.

I've never tried pilates and don't know much about it, but I have a very brief brush yoga a few years ago.

They both sound like they'd be good. I know yoga is meant to be good for your mind as well as your body but I tend to like my work outs fast and furious with plenty of sweat. :cool:

Do you still feel like you've had a work out at the end? Which would you guys recommend?

[goddess1222]

if you don't have any pilates classes available, there are some really good tapes out there that you can bring home. i like a good hard, sweaty workout too, but there were parts of my pilates class where i was sweating. it really works your body in a totally different way.

good luck,
goddess1222

[MightyMitre]

Thanks goddess 1222 - I think my local leisure centre does classes. I may well call in next week and see when the classes are. I'd like to give it a try- anything that'll help with my riding is worth a go. :)

[MightyMitre]

Thanks godess 1222 - I think my local leisure centre does classes. I may well call in next week and see when the classes are. I'd like to give it a try- anything that'll help with my riding is worth a go. :)

[missliz]

After three years of being a total cripple, surgurys, rehab, yada yada boring, they told me all the sports and stuff I wouldn't do again, right? Last night I went to fencing club to sell off my gear (VERY competitive for 16 years, then off the map since I got hurt)) and all these twitty kids who didn't know who I was were so rude- and I showed 'em. No jacket, no body armour, just a mask and weapon, went through most of the practice pool and totally humiliated them. Bound one pompous little twits weapon, ripped it out of his hand, then caught it in my back hand like Errol Flynn! How freaky is that? Lamo movie stuff, unless you suddenly do it and the whole gym applauds. It will never happen again, Zen moment. Threw in a tumbling run after, used to be famous for that. So cool to know I can do a cartwheel roundoff back flip flop, pretty good for a fat old cripple who isn't supposed to be able to walk...
Spent the day packed in ice with big smirk on face. I'm still too fat to tumble, and supposedly too old. Popped a bone out of place in my foot. Thank God it shoved back in.
This is the equivalent of riding away from some snotty little triathelete wannabe at 30 mph uphill. Nothing puts the irritating in their place like a desicive and overwhelming show of superior athletic ability. And gym time pays off:D
So, I'm ready to ride this summer!

A much more confident missliz

[Dogmama]

Good for you!!

I love instilling respect into twitty little kids. I see teenage boys at the gym, swaggering around with their friends and benching less than I bench (I'm 48). When I start loading up the plates they get real quiet...

[missliz]

Thanks, I'm glad I'm not the only one with the attitude.
I needed the confidence boost that only comes with kicking a little butt. It's hard to start again from scratch. Now I know I'm going to be myself again.

missliz

[MightyMitre]

MissLiz - after hearing all about your fencing skills I'm now very scared of you! Sounds like a sceen of out of a film - must have been cool to be there!:p

I don't like the sound of all your injuries - must be miserable. I can't even bear it when I get a heavy cold and feel under the weather. I like your attitude though - glad to hear you're out there showing the world who's boss. Give them hell!!:)

[missliz]

The injuries are awful, but the first couple of doctors were worse (and made me worse). In my mind, sports medicine is now just a euphemism for misogynistic pig. I finally found orthopods at LSU Medical Center who are not only awsomely good, but the knee man was the first to ever actually talk to me and find out that before I wasn't able to walk anymore and got fat and couch potato-ey looking I was a more accomplished athlete than any of the lameo ball players these neurotic sports medicine guys are so worked up over. I think emotionally they're still trying to make the high school football team and be a BMOC. He did a beuatiful job on my knees too. Now I try to ride and the legs are so smooth I go out too hard and fast and catch cold the next day. No training progress this winter at all, though I'm doing well at the gym and maybe I just need more basic conditioning. It's a shock to be in the habit of spinning fast in a big gear range and then suddenly not be able to push the big ring at all! Mentally, one stays eternally 27 or so but the body doesn't always cooperate.

Be VERY careful with orthopedists- a lot of them are brass plated jerks. The good ones are worth the search.

missliz

[MightyMitre]

MissLiz - if you don't mind me asking, how did you come by your injuries. Were they sports related? Sounds like you've had a pretty tough time - coping not only with your injuries but with less than helpful medical people as well.

Very glad to hear you're riding - doctors etc may have a certain amount of skill when it comes to the body ( although from your experience you might not agree! ) but I'm sure they all overlook the power of the mind.

As a 28 year old youngster this is something I'm continually being amazed by. As I train and ride more I'm discovering that even if you have a strong body it's nothing without a strong mind. For me recently this has been working the other way - when I've been on rides with people stronger and fitter than me I've sometimes been amazed at what I can do when I put my mind to it.

Hearing about your recovery and determination, sounds like this is something you already know...! :)

[missliz]

I had congenital knee alignment problems, femoral patella syndrome, that hurt but went undiagnosed and treated because I come from an era when woman weren't taken seriously as athletes in this country, and sports med was an all boy club just like the sports. I reached a certain age, the cartilage went, I got run off the road by a truck up in there and banged up, the moronic doctor that was supposedly "treating" me sent me to quacks for orthotics and PT (there's a lawsuit pending), the orthotics were so horrendous and incompetantly done they caused biomechanical problems and completely destabilized my feet, my feet just blew apart one day. The plantar fascia in both feet ripped apart, one arch collapsed so completely the Pf separated. I got told all along the way I was doomed to this 'cause I had high arched 'unstable' feet. Lying bastards. Nobody makes it in fencing or skating with uncorrected inherent foot problems.
So my injuries are mostly from medical incompetance. My knees deteriorated to chondromalacia pattella grade 4 and 5 ( no cartilage on the back of the kneecap) because they moved over the sharp bit on the side of the femur instead of sliding along the groove they're supposed tp be in.
This explained why I'm the strongest fastest (was) woman in the area but I could never finish the century- I was fighting my own knees. The surgury to fix this (lateral release of the pattela) has gotten so relativly easy, and this bastard just blew it off. Don't these *******s realize that people need to walk around?
I was at university at the time, and was told this was the football teams doc. Big public universities in the US take football VERY seriously, and this was a good recommendation So I trusted him. He wasn't, they lied. The football teams doc was trained by the guy who finally fixed my knees properly, and he wouldn't have made this mess. I never expected this level of incompetance, you'd think people in health care would understand civil liabilityfor maiming people.
I'm kind of pissed. Fortuneately, the one sport I couldn't live without is cycling- the sport of choice for arthritic knees, and nice stiff shoes to help out my feet. On bad days I wear MT bike shoes to the gym to lift, they give lots of support. And LOTS of attractive men,:D , a nice carrot to think about when doing those awful leg lift things for PT.
I could rant on, but this is quite enough. I've been off sports for three years, and would have gone totally mad without this board. Thanks, girls.

missliz

and I'm not riding much, I think I have the Fear. And a lot of head colds from thinking I'm still race fit and blowing up.

[MightyMitre]

Phew - that's pretty awful:( The only thing I can say is that at least you keep fighting. Even if you only ride your bike a bit it's still one in the eye for the b*****ds who wrote you off.

A few years ago there was a story about a British female triathlete who was due to compete in the Worlds Championships, when she got knocked off her bike while out on a training ride. She was left paralysed from the waist down and everyone just pretty much wrote her off.

Well, the Worlds came around only about 8 months after her accident but there she was, competing against the other wheel chair users. I'm afraid I can't remember her result but the story has always stuck in my mind.

[missliz]

Once a warrior, always a warrior. To be an athlete is a particular state of grace which one will always have, like the scars it took to get there.
Besides, it never occured to me that I wouldn't be just fine in a month or two. I only recently figured out how badly I'd been screwed over, and there are steps being taken to deal with the matter.
And that's enough on the subject. I need to figure out how to get my butt out on the bike without overdoing it and getting sick. Constructive stuff. A nice twenty mile ride is the goal- preferably on dirt in the woods. Nice wild flowers all around.

missliz

[MightyMitre]

Hi MissLiz -interesting subject about how not to overdo things. I thought I'd start a new thread ( 'Take It Easy?' ) on the topic to see if anyone else has the secret of how not to overdo it.

[sistinas]

Hi everyone - I've been lurking for a while and thought I'd put in some input about yoga and pilates, both of which I've been doing on and off for a while to supplement my cycling.

Pilates, as someone said in a previous post is awesome for core muscles (and your posture too! my roommate said he thought I looked taller when I came home from a class once). It makes riding on the bike a lot more comfortable.

I like yoga because I'm pretty bad about stretching (I know, I know...), but going to yoga 3-4 times a week ensures that I don't tighten up too much (I used to be a gymnast and since I've starting biking I've lost an insane amount of flexibility, especially in my hamstrings and back). There are several variations of yoga and if you can find an Astanga/power yoga class, it's not quite as slow as you think it might be - it'll actually get your heart rate up a little bit, get every muscle in your body stretched, and even build up some strength from holding the poses.

[kath]

Strength training is great way to not only build muscle but also build endurance. I work in the fitness industry and as far as strength training goes there is so many ways to get the job done.
My favorite is functional exercises where you work in a group setting using non-traditional stuff like stability balls, bells, medicine balls, hurdles etc...
Dr. Edith Heuwes teaches a great class in San Clemente, CA. Lots of outrigger ladies and other types of athletes take her class. She is very intelligent and her program is challenging but effective.