Should I get my Dog's teeth cleaned?

[solobiker]

Here is a little background. My dog is almost 12 years old. She has had her teeth cleaned at the Vets only 1 other time, about 5 years ago. As you know they have to put dogs under for this procedure. The Vet has recommended that she gets her teeth cleaned again. Shoni ( my dog) is relatively healthy, I am just concerned that she may have a hard time with this procedure includding the anesthesia because she is older. Has anyone here with an older pet had issues with this? Any adivice would be great. She is the love of my DH's and my life.

[makbike]

As with any procedure there is some risk involved but the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to most dental procedures, IMO. Given your buddy's age I would recommend bloodwork prior to the procedure this will allow the vet to see how the internal organs are functioning. Ask them what type of anesthetic they use (Iso is wonderful). A good dental will do wonders for the heart, liver and kidneys for it will help prevent the spread of nasty bacteria to these organs. The most obvious reason though is healthy teeth and gums - imagine what your mouth would be like if you went long periods between cleanings and check ups.

Years ago I had an old diabetic cat, Scooter, who suffered from kidney and heart disease (diagnosed at age 8). I had his teeth cleaned annually and he did well each time. This may have been overkill in some eyes but I was of the mindset that his annual cleanings were saving his internal organs. He lived to be 17. I'll never know if this really helped but I believe it did.

[solobiker]

She already had her blood test for heart worm and they took extra to check her levels. My DH got the call from the Vet and they said her Kidneys had slight abnormal levels but that she could still undergo the teeth cleaning procedure and that the would just have to use a different kind of anesthesia. I am just concerned. I know people are different then dogs/pets, but I work in health care with the geriatric population and have seen many struggle after having anesthesia.
I am torn..Clean teeth/gums to decrease risk of bacteria spreadig to her organs vs the anesthesia risks.

Thank for your replies:)

[Tri Girl]

I posted then deleted my post. I think I was too wordy.
I have a 14 year old cocker. She has a heart arrhythmia and is mostly deaf and blind. Her teeth need cleaning, but I won't do it. For me, it's not worth the risk. She's probably got a couple years left in her, but I'm afraid the trauma (emotionally and physically) of the anesthesia just isn't worth it- for either of us.

[Possegal]

I had a kitty that had really bad teeth. What can I say, I got her when I was a poor struggling grad student then a post-doc didn't pay much either. Her teeth were a mess and she had just been diagnosed with chronic renal failure, she was about 13. They did the tests to be sure she could handle it after I spent a couple months giving her fluids to help her with the kidney failure. In the end, they did the cleaning and she felt so much better. They joked that she was the only renal failure cat they had who gained weight. :) That was all due to the fact that she felt so much better with her teeth cleaned (and a couple pulled). She lived 6+ more years with the renal failure, and I'm sure the cleaning helped her do so well. Though I will admit that as we went along, I declined to do another cleaning because I worried about the risk/benefit ratio with her.

[Tokie]

I too had a rather feeble old dog with no apparent dental ailments have his teeth cleaned by the vet. He had an improved appetite, and really clearly felt better afterwards. Sometimes the gum/dental disease is very hard to detect /treat unless the pet is anesthetised. And we brush our dogs' teeth 2X a day with Petrodex dog toothpaste, and they still need the vet dental cleanings. Tokie

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The best thing is to have the pet's kidney function tested first before any dental anesthesia. Then, the vet can use inhaled gas anesthesia, which leaves the animal's system much more quickly than intravenous anesthesia, and is not processed through the kidneys. The gas poses less strain on the kidneys than the drip.

[Thorn]

Been there...two cats, one with kidney problems and the other with numerous intestinal issues. I had their dental work done. After having a cat with feline leukemia I came to the decision that with our pets it is quality of life, not quantity.

Perhaps it is cruel to say, but since both had dental issues--if an elderly, not quite so healthy animal can get no pleasure from eating, is that still quality of life? It was still a hard decision, but I felt it better that we take the risk than they live whatever time they could, but with painful teeth. It turned out well.

That said, I did refuse a tumor removal surgery on my feline leukemia cat. The tumor was near his knee. They had tried to remove it 6 months earlier, but it returned. The incision was hard to heal and he was very uncomfortable. Perhaps that shortened his life, but the time he had left he could still attack his felt mice. If we had done the surgery I doubt he'd have had the mobility. Trade offs.

[badger]

I knew my aged dog really needed his teeth cleaned and/or have some removed as I know they were in really bad shape. But he was so old that the vet didn't think it would be safe for him to be anesthetized. I felt badly for him because I know his teeth were bothering him. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

People still get their senior animals' teeth cleaned, just make sure you do all the proper blood panels beforehand to make sure she'll be okay to go under. When my 14 year old cat needed surgery for an injury, they wouldn't put her under unless they had the blood panel. She came out with flying colours.

[Heifzilla]

If her teeth are in bad shape, that can actually contribute to health issues, so cleaning them is a good idea.

How long ago did your vet pull blood? If it has been more than 3 months, I would have it done again. 12 is a geriatric dog and even though for a human 3 months isn't long, it is for a dog, especially an older one. I know it costs money but a blood panel can tell the vet so many things, especially since her kidneys have already shown some issues.

In general, anesthesia is safe and your vet wouldn't not suggest it if he or she didn't feel it was going to be safe for your dog. Of course, there are always risks, but there is risk in everything.

Good luck and good for you for being a good dog mom by asking questions.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

I posted then deleted my post. I think I was too wordy.
I have a 14 year old cocker. She has a heart arrhythmia and is mostly deaf and blind. Her teeth need cleaning, but I won't do it. For me, it's not worth the risk. She's probably got a couple years left in her, but I'm afraid the trauma (emotionally and physically) of the anesthesia just isn't worth it- for either of us.

I'm with TriGirl here b/c i've been in the same position. I had a older cocker too that I knew needed it, but I didn't want to put her through it at her advanced age. She got to pass peacefully of old age...and I didn't once regret not chancing the prophy. Risks weren't worth it to me either.

That said though.. I have a 7yr old cocker that JUST had a full prophy done 2 weeks ago. My 8yr old needs it too and I'll prob have that done soon.

When age and certain health factors aren't present, I'd have it done. Hate putting them under, but it really is better for them than dental disease (which can affect the heart, etc)

(ps - not intending to hijack...but TriGirl...another Okie/cyclist/cocker owner! yea!)

[solobiker]

She just had blood work done last week to check for heart worm and they had enough to check her kidney function. That came back slightly abnormal. The Vet said she would use a different type of anesthesia due to Shoni's kidney issues. I do know her teeth are getting bad. Other then that she is pretty darn healthy. Most people don't even know she is 12, they always think she is a puppy by how she acts.

[smurfalicious]

Hey Solo we have an anesthesia free tooth cleaning clinic at our store in Boulder every few months. I think it's around $125-$150 and the feedback has been awesome. I believe the gal also works out of one of the local vets offices. I can try and get you her info.

Also, I believe smaller dog right? Raw chicken necks are awe-haw-some for cleaning teeth. And that size is great for smaller dogs. My dogs are about 7 and 9 and they have amazing teeth because they get raw bones all the time, and eat a diet of about 50% raw.

[jesvetmed]

Solobiker: If you have it done, since the kidneys are marginal, please make sure they use IV fluids while she is under. This helps to maintain blood flow to the kidneys while under anesthesia (otherwise, the gas (or other anesthesia) causes the blood pressures to drop, and the kidneys do not receive the blood they should). This can contribute / worsen kidney problems that may already be present.

If the teeth are bad, cleaning may not be the only issues... they could find some that are infected and need extraction. If this is true, getting it all taken care of can really make them feel so much better! And without any anesthesia, this simply could not be found or dealt with.

It's always hard to know the right recommendation in a geriatric pet. I even struggle with it with my own (she is 12). I'm planning to get it done soon, though.

Nothing like fresh doggy kisses that don't make your nose curl :p
Good Luck.

[Heifzilla]

Hey Solo we have an anesthesia free tooth cleaning clinic at our store in Boulder every few months. I think it's around $125-$150 and the feedback has been awesome. I believe the gal also works out of one of the local vets offices. I can try and get you her info.

Also, I believe smaller dog right? Raw chicken necks are awe-haw-some for cleaning teeth. And that size is great for smaller dogs. My dogs are about 7 and 9 and they have amazing teeth because they get raw bones all the time, and eat a diet of about 50% raw.

First of all, an anesthesia-free dental will NOT get the teeth clean under the gum line, and all the bacteria there will continue to breed and can cause a ton of health issues. Secondly, during this anesthesia-free dental, are the teeth being polished after being scaled? If not, then within 24 hours the bacteria have already colonized the crevices and tiny little scrapes left by the scaling, and while the teeth may look clean and shiny, they aren't really any better than if you hadn't gotten a dental done at all. There is a good reason why the teeth are polished after a dental and it's not just to make the teeth sparkle. And honestly, there is simply NO way to get a true and proper dental done if the animal is not anesthestized. I don't care what these people doing these "dentals" say, you simply CANNOT get into all the crevices and crannies and under the gums while the animal is awake. These are not humans who will open wide for you. Believe me when I say if it could really be done, vets would be ALL over it.

Third, I am all for raw diets. However, too many people that feed them do not feed them correctly and feed diets that consist solely of necks and wings because these are cheap cuts. There has to be meaty pieces in there: breasts, thighs, etc., or you run the risk of blockages from the bones. The necks and wings are simply not meaty enough. Please, if you are going to feed raw, make sure to feed plenty of *meaty* cuts, too. I have seen way too many blockages come through the clinic from people who think they are feeding a great raw diet and since they are only feeding necks and wings, their animals block up. Done properly, a raw diet is a great way to keep teeth clean and animals healthy and regular. I'm not saying never feed necks or wings, just make sure to make those the smallest part of the diet. Just make sure to research raw diets well before throwing some chicken parts to your dogs.

Off my soapbox now :)

[smurfalicious]

Third, I am all for raw diets. However, too many people that feed them do not feed them correctly and feed diets that consist solely of necks and wings because these are cheap cuts. There has to be meaty pieces in there: breasts, thighs, etc., or you run the risk of blockages from the bones. The necks and wings are simply not meaty enough.

You'll note that I recommended them for supplemental feeding to help get her teeth clean a safe, natural way. I merely mentioned that my dogs teeth have also benefited from their raw diet for emphasis.

Further, I really don't place much stock in the opinion of conventional vets. I've seen the ingredients on the insanely overpriced "prescription" diets they pawn off on people and they make me sick. Not only are people paying too much for them, they're effectively buying corn flakes and hot dogs dressed in a little left overs from the brewery.

Feeding dogs recreational bones, or chicken necks is a great way to not end up needing the cleaning in the first place. I think that's valuable info for anyone who cares about their animals health. I didn't know that until a few years ago, and I'm glad I learned. Lucky, my terrier was supposed to have a cleaning and within two months on a raw diet her teeth were gorgeous and my vet was amazed.

I can understand being dubious of the anesthesia free cleaning but the gals that do it are amazing. We had multiple cats at the first clinic and you never would have known. So I imagine that after 8 years of school the gals that do the clinic are aware of what needs to be done and do so.

[Heifzilla]

Further, I really don't place much stock in the opinion of conventional vets. I've seen the ingredients on the insanely overpriced "prescription" diets they pawn off on people and they make me sick. Not only are people paying too much for them, they're effectively buying corn flakes and hot dogs dressed in a little left overs from the brewery.

...

I can understand being dubious of the anesthesia free cleaning but the gals that do it are amazing. We had multiple cats at the first clinic and you never would have known. So I imagine that after 8 years of school the gals that do the clinic are aware of what needs to be done and do so.

8 years of what? School for anesthesia-free dentals?

As for the prescription diets, people need to understand they are designed to treat a particular issue and they do it. Most people do not have the expertise, time, or nutritional education to be able to fix an appropriate diet for their animals with certain health issues. If someone does, then by all means they should make their own food. But the prescription diets have their place. They're not perfect but not much is in life.

[solobiker]

Well, today Shoni had here teeth cleaned and while she was under they also removed some "tumor" like bumps off of her neck and back. They ended up having to pull 3 of her teeth. She is pretty sleepy right now and I can tell she does not feel her best, my poor little baby girl.:( Every so often she growns a bit. I know/hope it is only temporary. She has to wear one of those cones so she won't lick her sutures. I plan to give her all the love in the world.

[jesvetmed]

Poor Shoni. I hope that she is feeling much better by morning. Keep her warm and comfy tonight, and stay with her. She'll appreciate it. It's always hard to see them that way after anesthesia. They are so sad. Glad things seem to have gone well.

[Aggie_Ama]

Ugh, I took my Heidi to the vet last week for her shots and he said her teeth are bad. He said from a visual exam it appears she needs some pulled. She is a tiny miniature schnauzer and already had two pulled two years ago. My poor baby is going to need doggie dentures soon and she is only 7! She hates chewing, so getting her to assist in cleaning has never worked for her the little Diva. :rolleyes:

[grey]

Chicken necks are not a bad idea, Smurf - I do want to advise a little caution on chicken - sometimes my dogs do not deal well with the cartilage, and puke it back up later (the bone is fine). And I agree with you on the packaged food... one of the biggest scams of our current day. I also agree with Hef that most people lack the nutritional education to figure out what it is their dog needs (let alone THEMSELVES). Good on you both for figuring out what it takes to keep your buddy healthy.

Something I'd like to add: if a dog is not used to raw, it takes a while for the body to adjust - even in a young dog, I'm told you can look forward to two weeks of the runs (mine didn't have this problem). I'm not sure I'd advocate doing this with an old dog whose teeth are in rough shape - you could *try* a large bone or so, since he'd have to work to get the meat off and likely wouldn't manage to ingest much of the bone itself, especially if his teeth are not feeling great.


Third, I am all for raw diets. However, too many people that feed them do not feed them correctly and feed diets that consist solely of necks and wings because these are cheap cuts. There has to be meaty pieces in there: breasts, thighs, etc., or you run the risk of blockages from the bones. The necks and wings are simply not meaty enough. Please, if you are going to feed raw, make sure to feed plenty of *meaty* cuts, too. I have seen way too many blockages come through the clinic from people who think they are feeding a great raw diet and since they are only feeding necks and wings, their animals block up. Done properly, a raw diet is a great way to keep teeth clean and animals healthy and regular. I'm not saying never feed necks or wings, just make sure to make those the smallest part of the diet. Just make sure to research raw diets well before throwing some chicken parts to your dogs.

Off my soapbox now :)

Seconded. I'm a raw feeder - yes it costs more to get pork, organ meat, beef and some of the bigger cuts, but it is NECESSARY in order to ensure the dog's health. Big, raw bones with marrow are also needed - they need the marrow in their diets.

My older dog is not geriatric at 7 years old - but her teeth are beautiful. A dogsitter got confused seeing some of the age in her face (hair from cornering a cat grew back in white) and tried to guess her age at three because her teeth are so pretty. It is work to keep dogs on a raw diet... but it is worth it.

[crazycanuck]

Solobiker, how is your doggie today?

[solobiker]

She is doing much better today. Her eyes are brighter and she is moving around with more energy. DH and I had given her a new stuffed animal the day she came home and she was not interested in it at all. Today she playing with it:) She is such a trooper. Thanks for asking!!

[greycoral]

I have mixed feeling about this. The practical part of me says not to do it, only because dogs have lived hundreds and thousands of years without getting their teeth cleaned. I don't even have dental insurance, why the heck would i pay for my DOG to get its teeth cleaned?

I realize it is important, but for older dogs, I don't believe it's worth the risk AT ALL. My 8 yr old Boston Terrier just died last week after having complications with the anesthesia after his dental :( They did a full blood panel, he was perfectly healthy before, and then was just gone. He didn't have any problems with his teeth at all, we had just been getting pressured by the vet to get it done. I would take it back in a heartbeat. I'd rather have a dog with no teeth than no dog at all.

[Tuckervill]

I'm sorry, grey...that is so sad and senseless.

I had my dog's teeth cleaned when he was already being sedated to have a cyst removed from his neck. He was 5 at the time, and I figure he's good for at least another 5 years.

Karen

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

OMG Grey..I am SO so sorry for your huge loss . The vet should feel every bit of guilt... It was NOT your fault...you did every bit of prep necessary and we just don't know when a dog's systems will react so poorly to it. I am sure you are devastated at the loss of your Boston. I'm a fellow dog mom and I can feel that pain. I SO wish I could take it away. I feel horrible that happened to your baby.

[greycoral]

thanks guys :\ It's been really really hard. Like I mentioned, he was older, but we only had him for 3 years. I miss him so much.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3563/3513364929_e56e47fc07.jpg
That's Frank, our Boston with Gus, our Pug. Gus really misses his brother too. He's been moping around ever since we lost him. I'm so hesitant to get a dental done on Gus now too, brachycephalic dogs are so much more susceptible to problems with anesthesia than other dogs. He's only 5, but still.

[solobiker]

Grey, I am sooo sorry for your loss. Such a cute picture. It was a very hard decision for DH and I to make as Shoni is our child and has been with us for 12 years. Once again, I am so sorry that happened.

[Aggie_Ama]

Grey that is terrible! I am sorry for your loss as we are still getting over Maggie and we knew it was coming, days get easier but us doggie moms (and dads) still miss our babies. ((HUGS))

I am still trying to decide on Heidi. She has visible teeth issues but still eats like a pig. It is a hard call because after Maggie I can't bear to lose Heidi now. We got her as a puppy and she is only 8 years young. Again I am sorry you did what you thought was best and now your little Frank has passed.