Dress Code - Bare Legs OK or Not?

[Deborajen]

I work at a doctors' office and we've been having some discussion about our dress code. One of the big topics is staff wearing/not wearing panty hose.

When I finished school 25 years ago, wearing panty hose was a must when wearing a dress or skirt to work or to an interview. Bare legs were considered unprofessional - too casual. I still prefer to wear hose but the staff I supervise is split - some would prefer not to and say hose is too hot, but others say bare legs don't look good so hose is necessary.

We're leaning towards not making panty hose a requirement in our dress code, but I'm curious what you all think. Do you think hose should be worn to the office or to an interview, or is it o.k. to wear a dress or skirt without hose? When you go into your doctor's office, does it make an impression one way or the other if the female doctors and staff are wearing dresses/skirts without panty hose?

By the way, I'm on the business side of the practice, not clinical. The rest of the office except the doctors & receptionists wear scrubs.--

[SheFly]

Personally, I HATE hose. I am sitting at work today (and was on Tuesday) in a skirt with bare legs. I think it is ok and still professional.

For an interview, however, I always wear hose (whether I like it or not) - mostly because that's how I was brought up (I can't wear slacks to church either...), and because often we don't know the dress code where we are interviewing.

No impression either way for me if I go to the doctor's office and see someone without hose.

SheFly

[Biciclista]

IMHO panty hose are no more sanitary and in fact, perhaps LESS sanitary than bare legs.
I probably have never noticed what the people working at the doctor's office have worn under their shoes. As long as they are clean and neat, I cannot imagine why anyone would want to force pantyhose on someone who lives in a warm climate.

[Zen]

DEFINITELY to an interview but in you work environment patients won't be too focused on your legs if they can see them at all.
If an employee is comfortable in her clothing she would be a more efficient worker.

[Triskeliongirl]

Would I wear hose to a job interview, yes, just to not offend others. I also wear hose if going to a professional event in a country where it is customary (i.e. Japan). But, I do not wear hose myself to work, or even to national professional meetings or events.

Would I be offended in any way to visit a doctors office and see the staff in bare legs? Not at all. Sure, I would want folks to look neat, clean, and well groomed, but I could care less if their legs are covered, and in fact I would probably not even notice this. In San Antonio it is very hot and folks rarely wear hose, which I think just encourages yeast infections and UTIs.

[SadieKate]

I love these threads because they highlight regional differences. I tried out a new primary care doctor a few months ago. She didn't pass the test due to her lack of knowledge but she also had on a top that barely met the top of her pants. Walking down the street, no one would have thought a thing, but in your doctor? I didn't need her to be distracted tugging down her top.

The dress code for male professionals around here is dockers and a polo shirt. The women are equally casual. Clean, neat, and all the important parts covered. On the left coast, pantyhose seems to be reserved for interviews and court dates. Maybe executives in the high powered financial district still wear them.

They're also not much healthier than wearing your bikes shorts around all the time.

[maillotpois]

It really depends on the suit for me. If the skirt is shortish, I will probably wear them. If I am in court, probably also. If the skirt is longer, then I might not. Or I might wear boots and wouldn't wear them under those (unless it is COLD in which case I'd wear thicker tights anyway).

I used to wear them ALL the time. I'm enjoying not having to spend all that $ on them these days. :rolleyes:

I would not expect hose at my doctors office. I would also expect the dress code in general at a doctor's office to be much more casual than my attorney attire, court or otherwise.

[GLC1968]

I used to manage a retail clothing store where dress code was paramount. We had an 'image' to uphold. It was a pain.

Anyway, I used to allow my employees to have bare legs in the summer under two conditions....1) their skirts were to the tops of their knees (no minis) and 2) their legs were in good condition. If they had a thousand mosquito bites - wear hose. If they took a spill on their bike and had road rash - wear pants. No bare leg 'ickyness' was allowed. Everyone seemed happy with it. Oh, and this ONLY applied between Memorial Day and Labor Day (we were in the north). The rest of the year, hosiery was a requirement.

I think that for your office it partly depends on your location. If you live somewhere warm and casual (like FL) then no one will care if everyone has bare legs. If your office is down the street from the fincial district in some major city, pantyhose might be a good idea. Perosnally, I think it's pretty relative and it's hard for us to judge as 'outsiders', you know?

Luckily, I'm now an engineer and having any 'style' at all is clearly optional for my profession so I never have to worry about it again. :p

[VeloVT]

This is an interesting thread... I was wondering about the pantyhose thing recently. 5-10 years ago, I would have definitely worn hose if I had chosen a skirt suit for an interview (although not for working necessarily). But people just don't really wear hose anymore -- it now looks dowdy and matronly. It would look strange to me to see someone under 50 wearing hose. So should I wear hose if I wear a skirt suit to an interview?

For those who need to wear hose but hate them, thigh highs (with silicone grippers, not the kind that require garter belts) are much more comfortable than pantyhose IMO.

[SheFly]

This is an interesting thread... I was wondering about the pantyhose thing recently. 5-10 years ago, I would have definitely worn hose if I had chosen a skirt suit for an interview (although not for working necessarily). But people just don't really wear hose anymore -- it now looks dowdy and matronly. It would look strange to me to see someone under 50 wearing hose. So should I wear hose if I wear a skirt suit to an interview?

For those who need to wear hose but hate them, thigh highs (with silicone grippers, not the kind that require garter belts) are much more comfortable than pantyhose IMO.

First - as I mentioned, I would wear hose with a skirt suit to an interview.

Second - a couple weeks ago , at a bike race no less, I saw a woman with the thigh highs on. How do I know? The tops of her thigh highs just barely met the BOTTOM of her skirt :eek:. AND, she had a huge run in those hose!

SheFly

[Crankin]

I was one of the last hold out as far as wearing hose. I noticed that in AZ, everyone wore hose, no matter how hot it was. When I moved back here, as soon as one warmish day came, the hose came off. Now people go bare-legged when it's 45-50.
I can't do that, so I pretty much go from tights, which I do wear with dresses and skirts to bare legs. But, there is a time, mostly in the spring and a bit in the fall, that hose meet my warmth requirements. It's only a few weeks. Mostly, I try and wear the tights.
Since I am not working now, I haven't worn skirts to class since the end of the winter, unless it was a warm enough day to go bare-legged. Wearing hose at a university would get me laughed outta there.
I also wear hose at more formal things in the evening, in the winter. For example, a wedding where I am really dressed up= no tights, but hose.

[Deborajen]

I saw a woman in town not long ago that was wearing a dress down to about her knees with knee highs - that didn't work either!

One thing I forgot to mention originally - One of the big reasons the panty hose issue is so touchy is that I have an employee that is petite and a very good dresser who never wears hose. She always looks nice and stylish and gets lots of compliments. Then last week I had another employee go hoseless. She's very pale skinned, etc. and turned a lot of heads as well (but not in the same way--). The other supervisors were complaining that I should "do something about it" - ? These supervisors and their staff (except their receptionists) wear uniforms or scrubs, yet they were quite vocal about this issue.

[Blueberry]

+1 on bare legs.

I abhor hose. Won't wear them. I think I might be allergic to them (seriously). My ob/gyn banned me from wearing them. Generally, I just go bare legged (I do live in the South). If I have to go to court, I wear pants.

I would actually be offended if a place of business required their female employees to wear hose. I would wear a pantsuit to an interview. I've hired people who came in skirt suits with bare legs - I don't care one way or the other.

CA

[andtckrtoo]

I agree this is interesting. I remember the days where the debate was requiring hose - meaning whether or not a woman had the right to wear pants! :D (And I'm not that old, actually - only 44).

I agree with most of the posters who say no hose is fine as long as the skirt is a respectable length.

[Blueberry]

I agree this is interesting. I remember the days where the debate was requiring hose - meaning whether or not a woman had the right to wear pants! :D (And I'm not that old, actually - only 44).


I'm actually more than a couple of years younger than you are, and when we did on campus interviewing at my law school, they tried to ban us from wearing pant suits. My attitude was I'd rather wear the pants and not get hired, than work for a firm that had certain opinions of women. One of the professors tried (and failed) to require women to wear skirts to our mock oral arguments.

I've also been asked during the last year in job interviews: 1) whether I have children; 2) whether I want children; and 3) whether my husband would quit his job to take care of kids if we had them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:

CA

[lph]

I agree that the salient point - and the most touchy one - is "legs in good condition". So how do you tell someone that their legs aren't up for public viewing? Or arms, for that matter? Whether it's hair, or skin tone, or bruises or acne or mosquito bites, I wouldn't want to be the one to decide. Here I happily wear sleeveless tops and above the knee skirts with no hose, but I work in a unformal environment and for any more formal setting I'd dress up.

[SadieKate]

I was one of the last hold out as far as wearing hose. I noticed that in AZ, everyone wore hose, no matter how hot it was. Until last year, I frequently traveled to Scottsdale for business. No one wore pantyhose.

[sfa]

I don't think hose should ever be included as a requirement in a dress code. It's easy enough to write a dress code that focues on looking professional without micromanaging the actual articles of clothing. This also will help deal with people like the one SheFly mentioned who probably was following the letter of the law for an office dress code (hey, she had on a skirt and hose, right?) but not the spirit of the law. And what is considered professionally acceptable these days has changed dramatically. When you have the future first lady of the United States getting on t.v. and admitting that she stopped wearing hose ages ago, you have to figure that the rules have changed.

Me personally? I heard last fall at some point that hose were considered hopelessly out of date. They were the dividing line between young professionals and old fuddy duddy professionals. I'm an old fuddy duddy professional myself and still wear them, at least when I'm wearing dress shoes. Tights look weird and are uncomfortable on me, and bare legs are only comfortable if I have on shoes that leave my heels and toes uncovered. If a shoe covers my heels or toes, I'll get blisters in about five minutes if I don't have on hose. So it's not about the legs for me--it's the feet.

Sarah

[Eden]

I don't consider myself particularly old or fuddy... but I actually like pantyhose... For one I tend to be cold all of the time and hose are oddly enough pretty warm and also I hate, really hate wearing shoes with bare feet. It bothers me a great deal and those silly little foot hose things don't help at all. They have to be small enough to be tight though. Nothing is worse than hose that feel like they are always falling down. I tend to not go bare legged with a skirt unless its very hot and I'm wearing sandals.

[SheFly]

I've also been asked during the last year in job interviews: 1) whether I have children; 2) whether I want children; and 3) whether my husband would quit his job to take care of kids if we had them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:

CA

Um - all illegal interview questions.... These interviewers surely did not consult with their HR reps.

SheFly

[NoNo]

This must be a generational difference, because I can't tell you the last time I've owned pantyhose. Just over Easter my mom was giving me a strange look because I had bare legs with my dress. I explained to her that no one wears stockings anymore, and everyone in my age group (I'll be 28 next week) agreed. Personally, I think dictating whether a person has to wear stockings or not is going a little too far. My company just updated their dress code, and there were quite a few complaints, I can't imagine if they told us we had to wear pantyhose too. There might have been an outright revolt.

[Aggie_Ama]

I disagree on generational, I am only 28 and I like wearing hose and think they look better. My legs are very pale, when cold they get purply I think it looks hideous on myself and others. Otherwise I think I have nice looking legs. For me hose are a more polished look, I wear bare legs to go to out to dinner in which I wear a skirt. I have a skirt suit and I would NEVER go to an interview without hose. I am in hot Texas but I love hose the right kind support your legs and reduce fatigue while still not looking like support hose. I used to sell panties, bras and hosiery and learned why a good pair of hose it worth the tag.

I have seen plenty of companies that require hose, it does not seem weird at all to me. Of course at my work they are not required but I will not being wearing skirts because we can't have visible tattoos and I have one on my ankle. :rolleyes:

[VeloVT]

First - as I mentioned, I would wear hose with a skirt suit to an interview.

Second - a couple weeks ago , at a bike race no less, I saw a woman with the thigh highs on. How do I know? The tops of her thigh highs just barely met the BOTTOM of her skirt :eek:. AND, she had a huge run in those hose!

SheFly

Eek. That is tacky. Thigh highs should definitely go high enough (or the skirt should be long enough) that you can't tell they are thigh highs. I suppose one should try them on with the planned outfit and make sure the skirt's slit doesn't reveal them either.

[Blueberry]

Um - all illegal interview questions.... These interviewers surely did not consult with their HR reps.

SheFly

Yep. They are illegal. The interviewers were employment lawyers.:rolleyes:

[maillotpois]

Yep. They are illegal. The interviewers were employment lawyers.:rolleyes:

SNORT! :p

[GLC1968]

I agree that the salient point - and the most touchy one - is "legs in good condition". So how do you tell someone that their legs aren't up for public viewing? Or arms, for that matter? Whether it's hair, or skin tone, or bruises or acne or mosquito bites, I wouldn't want to be the one to decide. Here I happily wear sleeveless tops and above the knee skirts with no hose, but I work in a unformal environment and for any more formal setting I'd dress up.

Ah yeah...it wasn't fun. My requirement was that if it was 'gross' looking, it had to go. But I don't care where you work, a visible oozing road rash is NOT professional and I'm happy to tell someone that (if it's my place to do so, of course). We certainly had the ability to wear pants or longer skirts, so it's not like they had no other options and would have to stay home. I was only asking that they THINK about what image they presented and then dressed accordingly (bare arms faced the same scrutiny but were allowed).

I did not distinguish between pale skin or tan skin - that's a matter of personal preference not style. I also didn't differentiate between someone with skinny legs and someone with big ones (like me). The bottom line was image (it was HUGELY important) and every singe employee was made aware of this constraint during the interview process. Basically, if you don't like it, don't work for me. It was definitely one of the hardest parts of my job because by nature, I'm very accepting of all types. Luckily, I understood (and saw first hand) why those constraints were in place, so all I had to do was to make sure that my employees had the same understanding.

I even had to keep a bottle of nail polish remover in my office in case an employee wearing dark nail polish chipped or broke a nail. Even chipped polish was not acceptable. :rolleyes:

[msincredible]

I prefer hose for professional situations as well, but I'm also one of those "always cold" people.

[Jolt]

Bare legs are definitely OK! Please, for the love of all that is good, do NOT require hose--they are unhealthy and uncomfortable and just end up looking crummy if they happen to get a run during the course of the day (thus defeating the supposed purpose). Very impractical. Yuck. I really don't see why there should be a problem with bare legs in the absence of so-called "ickiness" like road rash etc. and as long as the skirt isn't too short (which would be an issue regardless of hose). And why do people have such an issue with someone having pale legs? If that's their natural skin color, they shouldn't be made to feel like it's ugly and has to be covered up with hose (or fake tan for that matter). I've really become disgusted with how fake everything is in our society. The point of a dress code is to establish a basic standard of professional appearance, not make people conform to some stupid idea of what looks good.

[JH-NV]

I work in a large medical group >100 employees. Last year our dress code was relaxed, and we can now go stockingless. I work in clinical and sometimes I will not wear stockings with slacks. A couple of MD's (female) will go bare while wearing skirts. In the summer, our temps are quite warm, and we are excited to have an option.

[Eden]

with pants I generally wear.... socks.... I will agree that pantyhose under pants are not usually comfortable (but isn't that what knee high ones are for?)

[PamNY]

Ah yeah...it wasn't fun. My requirement was that if it was 'gross' looking, it had to go. But I don't care where you work, a visible oozing road rash is NOT professional and I'm happy to tell someone that (if it's my place to do so, of course).

Were there any age-related problems with this policy? I'm thinking of spider veins (there's probably a better term for that, but I don't know it). I'm not arguing with anyone; just curious.

This whole discussion reminds me that in some ways, conservative dress codes are easier, with fewer decisions to make.

Pam

[GLC1968]

Were there any age-related problems with this policy? I'm thinking of spider veins (there's probably a better term for that, but I don't know it). I'm not arguing with anyone; just curious.

This whole discussion reminds me that in some ways, conservative dress codes are easier, with fewer decisions to make.

Pam


Thankfully, it never came up. Most of my employees were in their 20's but the age range covered 16 to 62. Most of my older employees were pretty conservative to begin with and probably wouldn't even think of wearing bare legs with skirts. My biggest issue with dress code were the college-age girls, actually.

Honestly though - when the pressure is on to look good (and not just to be decently covered up as is the case in some workplaces), most people with flaws tend to want to cover them up anyway. I know that my first year there when I was quite overweight, I didn't wear sleeveless. My mother had awful varicose veins and would NEVER wear skirts without hosiery in a professional environment until she got it fixed. One of my employees came to work early one day in order to purchase the pants that went with a suit she had bought. When I asked why she wasn't wearing the skirt she already owned, she said that she'd fallen asleep in the sun and had neon red legs...on one side. She felt it looked too ugly to go bare and it hurt to much to wear hosiery. *ouch!* A vast majority of my employees understood what 'professional' meant and it was certainly rare that anyone had to be corrected twice.

[Veronica]

I wish there were rules about what to wear to the gym. :eek:

Veronica

[ZenSojourner]

]I've also been asked during the last year in job interviews: 1) whether I have children; 2) whether I want children; and 3) whether my husband would quit his job to take care of kids if we had them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:

CA

That's illegal!

It was illegal when I got my first job out of college, and it's illegal now.

Oooooh, that makes me so MAYYYAD!

It was bad enough when they were asking stupid questions like that back in the bad old days. To find out they're still up to their evil tricks just makes me BURN!


:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[ZenSojourner]

I prefer hose for professional situations as well, but I'm also one of those "always cold" people.

Me too.

Which is why I wear PANTS. With knee socks. Usually my ski socks in fact.

[msincredible]

Me too.

Which is why I wear PANTS. With knee socks. Usually my ski socks in fact.

Well, true, I actually wear pants > 95% of the time with long knee socks underneath.

The other reason for pants is that I commute to work by motorcycle and it's easiest just to wear the gear over the business clothes. Can't really do that with a skirt.

[Grog]

A couple of MD's (female) will go bare while wearing skirts. In the summer, our temps are quite warm, and we are excited to have an option.

This whole thread would become more interesting if it was male MDs who went bare while wearing skirts. :) Or any male, for that matter.

This being said, my husband - a MD - wear tights all the time! :D

[shootingstar]

I disagree on generational, I am only 28 and I like wearing hose and think they look better. My legs are very pale, when cold they get purply I think it looks hideous on myself and others. Otherwise I think I have nice looking legs. For me hose are a more polished look, I wear bare legs to go to out to dinner in which I wear a skirt. I have a skirt suit and I would NEVER go to an interview without hose. I am in hot Texas but I love hose the right kind support your legs and reduce fatigue while still not looking like support hose. I used to sell panties, bras and hosiery and learned why a good pair of hose it worth the tag.

I have seen plenty of companies that require hose, it does not seem weird at all to me. Of course at my work they are not required but I will not being wearing skirts because we can't have visible tattoos and I have one on my ankle. :rolleyes:

Like several others here, I wear pantyhose to any interview for any job that particularily if you expect to be paid well/decently or negotiating a good salary. Particularily jobs that require you to meet clients who themselves are professionals also or you are expected in pull at least $$$$ revenue for the company.

And I notice myself...the interviewers are wearing pantyhose themselves.

Sure, many of us have nicely shaped/toned cycling legs, but my legs bruise easily and I also have leg skin that tends to be dry even if I've put on lots of body lotion several hrs. before. Pantyhose gives my legs an overall smooth look for a dressier outfit/skirt. I don't own any casual skirts at this time in life, only dress skirts.

After the job interview and if you get the job, if the work culture permits it, sure bare legs under a skirt that hits just above the knee for work or longer, looks ok.

A concession to wearing pantyhose even in hot climates, is incredibly small, folks. It's not like being asked to wear a head covering in an fundamentalist Islamic country.

Or being a firefighter wearing rubberized turnout gear jackets in hot climates, fighting a fire... many other situations where people in certain jobs work in FAR more difficult environmental conditions.

[Deborajen]

This whole thread would become more interesting if it was male MDs who went bare while wearing skirts. :) Or any male, for that matter.

Ooooh, I'd love to suggest that to my docs. We have 4 men and 3 women. The men (the owners/partners) are pretty smart-a$$ about the whole dress code issue. They swear they don't care what the staff wears, and why do we have a dress code if it causes discontent amongst the staff? Then a few beats later, I'm told they've made a comment about an employee not even dressing like she should be taken seriously. Yeah, it DOES matter what we wear. And the male docs I work for - they wouldn't be caught DEAD wearing skirts - kilts - I don't want to picture it, either --

[andtckrtoo]

[QUOTE=Grog;424536]This whole thread would become more interesting if it was male MDs who went bare while wearing skirts. :)/QUOTE]

There is a definite reason women are so interested in the Scottish lads who wear kilts. *sighs happily*

[Irulan]

A concession to wearing pantyhose even in hot climates, is incredibly small, folks. It's not like being asked to wear a head covering in an fundamentalist Islamic country.

Work/office culture is a little different from religious/political culture.



Or being a firefighter wearing rubberized turnout gear jackets in hot climates, fighting a fire... many other situations where people in certain jobs work in FAR more difficult environmental conditions.

Panty hose is not safety equipment.

For me, the the above two arguments are a real stretch for the reasons I stated.

[shootingstar]

Hmmm..work-related 'cosmetic' stuff.I haven't looked up the latest rules on full beards for police officers. But I do recall there was sufficient debate in this area in Ontario for the police officers there.

If I can recall correctly, of all the images and tv footage of Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and they do police work, not just ceremonial work...alot of them don't wear beards.

The reality at construction sites, is that we had foreign workers from hot climates, Panama, Thailand who found Vancouver winter cold..which Canadians would consider quite mild. Only a couple degrees below freezing at the foothills (not up in mountains).

In the summer, Thai male construction workers were wearing balaclavas over their faces..to prevent further skin darkening (cultural cosmetic reasons)...and keep themselves warm in cool mornings. It bewildered Canadians and others...but it wasn't a big deal.

When I worked for the judges in the courts, the judges were pissed off that some of the law students/law clerks wore jeans and bare legs with skirts. Judges fumed because they had to wear their judicial robes at all times in court even if the courthouse was not properly air-conditioned (and ours was a historic building, early 1800's) and hot summer temps. So they asked the law clerks to wear complete business attire.

Hey, some of the lawyers would be billing later on in their careers at $200-$400 per hr. for their services. Might as well get used to dressing for the part.

__________________
I agree a person's skill and competence on the job should form the basis of one's judgement. But that's not total reality.

[GLC1968]

Work/office culture is a little different from religious/political culture.

Panty hose is not safety equipment.

For me, the the above two arguments are a real stretch for the reasons I stated.


These two things may be true, but if you work in an environment where panty hose are required, it's really no different. If you want that job/career, you take the good with the bad.

I have to wear static lab coats and straps on my shoes at my job. This means that I can't ever wear heels to work and that I'm often hot. I deal. It's part of my chosen career. If it bothered me that much, I'd find a new one.

[redrhodie]

I once saw an elderly lady come out of a rest room in Central Park with her skirt tucked in to her pantyhose :eek:. I haven't worn them since.

[Crankin]

SK, my comment about wearing pantyhose in AZ is based on 15 years of working in various school districts there. But, it was almost 20 years ago. No one would have thought about coming to work without them. Even in 1990, I noticed that in the same profession, when I moved to MA, less people wore them.
Personally, I think hose make legs look nice and professional looking. I would not care if they were required for my work. I go bare legged when it's warm enough, but not in the dead of winter. I wear knee highs under pants, sort of the kind a cross between stockings and knee socks. I do not like the look of being professionally dressed in a pants suit/dress pants, sitting down, and then seeing ski socks under the pants. I solve the issue by wearing short boots with my pants a lot of the time.
I know it's a generational thing (mostly), but it also took me a long time to be able to wear pants to synagogue, even when I was there for a meeting, not a religious service.

[tctrek]

As part of the over 50 crowd there was a time when I would have been absolutely mortified to go to the office without hose on! Even showing bare ankles when wearing pants was tabu. But I think the times are changing and if the skirt is a proper fit, ie: not a mini skirt showing your behind, that it's ok. This week, for the first time in my professional life, I wore a skirt without hose to work. A cute pencil skirt that comes to my knee. It freaked me out a little, but I survived the day and was a lot cooler. My company has our A/C set at 79 degrees to save money/energy. I am roasting away in my menopausal misery, so the skirt gave me some relief.

I also think you have to be careful not to go too far at the office -- no flip flops , see-through fabrics, belly tops, etc.

I agree totally that an interview is different. You need every advantage you can get and professional dress is a big one.

[ilima]

I've also been asked during the last year in job interviews: 1) whether I have children; 2) whether I want children; and 3) whether my husband would quit his job to take care of kids if we had them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::mad:

CA

These are lawyers or people that work for law firms asking these questions? :confused:

Baffling.

[Tuckervill]

I once worked at an office that didn't allow open-toed shoes, AND required hose.

I think it's interesting that a person from Canada thinks it's no big deal to wear hose when it is hot outside. A superior from Minnesota once told a group of us that we should always wear a suit jacket, no matter what the weather. Yeah. right. Try that with Arkansas humidity or Florida temperatures!

Karen

[ZenSojourner]

You won't catch me dead wearing a suit. I wore them for the first 2 or 3 year in the work force and grew to hate them. Then I gave them all away to a coworker, who couldn't believe what I was doing. That was in the mid-80's. I've never regretted it.

No more runs, no more sagging hose, no more uncomfortable clothes. No more skirts or dresses. In my job as a software engineer I was occasionally required to crawl under tables following cables, rerouting computer connections, what have you. I made the mistake of attending a "professional development" seminar for women - I have no idea why I did this, it turned out to be a VERY bad idea - and got held up to the rest of the women as a bad example (I showed up wearing silk trousers, a silk blouse, and a heavy sweater because I'm cold all the time, they were NICE clothes but not a suit). When I pointed out to her the practical problems with wearing skirts and dresses and then having to crawl around under tables, up ladders, and poke my head up into ceiling cavities checking connections and what not, she primly informed me I should wear CULOTTES.

I burst out laughing right in her face (which also pissed her off, but I was PAYING for this crap, LOL!)

I cannot imagine the looks if I had shown up to work in CULOTTES. Actually I can. Pants raised no hackles, bothered no one, but CULOTTES? Culottes are for gym class, LOL!

BTW, I have no idea how you could tell the difference between ski socks and any other knee sock, but if I sit down and someone peering under the table at my ankles can somehow tell they're ski socks (as opposed to "plain ol' kneesocks", whatever that means), tough. Who pays that much attention to someone else's ankles anyway? I get COLD and I will do whatever it takes to counteract that. My physical comfort trumps everybody else's sense of propriety, especially when it's over something as unobtrusive as socks under nice trousers.

[Blueberry]

These are lawyers or people that work for law firms asking these questions? :confused:

Baffling.

These were lawyers. Who represent plaintiffs in employment law matters.

For some odd reason, lawyers seem to think that the law does not apply to them.

CA

[OakLeaf]

These were lawyers. Who represent plaintiffs in employment law matters.

For some odd reason, lawyers seem to think that the law does not apply to them.

CA

I had a job interview with a federal judge once, in which he repeatedly asked me whether it was "Miss or Mrs." After about three rounds of "Ms." I finally answered his question. (I was young.) As soon as the interview as over I mentally kicked myself. I still wonder whether my willingness to stand up to him for what I knew was right, was part of the interview. (For that reason or whatever, he didn't offer me a job.)


But to the OP: I think it depends on your clientele. There are definitely people who think bare legs are "gross" in a professional setting. Even if you disagree with that, you don't want to alienate your patients. In an office where there was less contact with the public, if I were the boss, I wouldn't make pantyhose part of the dress code (even though I personally wouldn't dream of dressing "nicely" without hose). In a medical office, I might. Honestly, what would you think of men's bare legs in your office?


Aside to Tuckerville: Minnesota in the summertime is hotter than most of Florida (regularly in the high 90s to low 100s) and at least as humid as Ohio. I believe the same is true of much of south central Canada. Just because it's cold in the winter doesn't mean they don't know what summer is like.

[pinkbikes]

Luckily, I'm now an engineer and having any 'style' at all is clearly optional for my profession so I never have to worry about it again. :p

Bahahahahah! As a fellow engineer that tickled my fancy bigtime!:D

I know just what you mean. Sometimes I think that a plastic pocket protector is the highest fashion item they own!

Mind you - when I started out as an engineer I was the only female there, so I pretty much got to set the dress code since nobody knew what a female engineer should wear. I upset my boss on the first day by listening to my mother (thanks Mum) and wearing a skirt (no hose by the way) because she insisted that no woman should ever start a new job in pants! He was apalled!:eek:

Since then the crimes against fashion that I have perpetrated are truly worthy of my profession. The denim shorts were probably the worst - patched them until all the patches damned near joined together! Sometimes I wish there was a giant trapdoor that could swallow the stupid moments of the past!:o

[OakLeaf]

It's not like being asked to wear a head covering in an fundamentalist Islamic country.

Ahem. Is it like a French woman being asked to wear something above the waist when she sunbathes on American beaches?

Okay, discussions about hijab are pretty far beyond this thread... but it raises my hackles when people suggest that OUR standards of modesty are reasonable and properly enforceable by law, and OTHER cultures' standards of modesty are not reasonable and should not be enforced by law.

[Crankin]

I do not "look under the table" and peek at people's socks. What I described is just available to view, when people sit down.
I *do* care how I look. I love living in my athletic type clothes when not in a professional situation and I like being outdoors and getting dirty. But, when I am at work, I like looking a certain way. For 30 years I worked in a profession where the range of acceptable dress was wide. When I was young, I looked really young. In my second job, the lunch lady tried to stop me from going behind the counter to buy the teacher's salad. This was in a school that only went up to sixth grade! So, I wore suits, dresses, or dressy skirts. And hose. I found both students and parents reacted in a different way, as opposed to when I was dressed down.
In the last 15 years I changed my style to more business casual. But, I rarely wore jeans to school. I like buying clothes, so be it. But now, I spend more on my cycling and running stuff...
Now that I am in grad school full time, I have observed that the younger students actually dress better than most of the ones closer to my age. I was surprised to see that many of them wear skirts. I am not talking about prim, dressed up clothes, but stylish skirts and pants that look quite fashionable.
Wow, this thread has morphed a bit. To me, it's like the make up discussion that comes up every so often. Yeah, I wear make up, get my hair highlighted, wear nail polish. And I like to dress up. I guess I don't get why people think this is so horrible. I am not really a girly-girl, but even if I was, so what?
Those lawyers asking those questions :mad::mad:!

[Grog]

These were lawyers. Who represent plaintiffs in employment law matters.

For some odd reason, lawyers seem to think that the law does not apply to them.


Is it perhaps because it in fact is not applied to them, i.e. there are not sufficient complaints filed against them and cases that end up in courts to cause them to bother? What if every female candidate sued their @$$ off for asking such questions?

[ZenSojourner]

Crankin, caring about how you look is fine. But extending the same standards to other people - not so much. Again, I wonder how you can tell the difference between "ski socks" and any other socks. But then maybe it's socks altogether you find objectionable? I'm really not sure, maybe you were only speaking for yourself after all, it just seemed you were setting a standard for everybody. I actually did not remember who said that, so it was a response to content and not person, and may very well have been taken out of context.

Anyway. One time in my life I have run up against someone I considered hypersensitive on the issue of modes of dress, and she justified it for similar reasons that you give - being short, female, and very young looking, she became overly concerned with appearing "professional" at all times, which for herself might have been fully warranted, but as a university professor, she turned around and tried to apply these same standards to her students. Some of whom (me for example) were significantly older than her.

Now keep in mind that she was not an employer, she was a university level professor at a small regional public college, and we are not talking about comportment and dress at work, but in class settings, not by employees, but grad students. She actually made whether or not she approved of your dress part of your grade.

The fact is that in a therapy setting, dress is appropriate or inappropriate IN CONTEXT. There are settings where you'd better dress to the nines if you want your client's trust and respect, and there are settings where you'd better NOT show up dressed to the nines if you want your client's trust and respect. You need to use a little common sense.

This woman believed and tried to enforce the idea that her standards of dress were ALWAYS appropriate in all situations, and took it a step further in my case to the point where she was downgrading me in class for wearing sandals (not flipflops but sandals) OUTSIDE of class. Then she gave me a C (the graduate level equivalent of a flunking grade) because, she told me, "the profession needs to be protected from you".

Guess who didn't teach that class anymore by the time I was done with her?

Harkening back to another thread, if my only choice in job hunting was a job that required a standard of dress I didn't like, I'd take the job, I'd conform, and I'd keep looking for something better. It's all arbitrary anyway.

But doing so (or not) doesn't change my personal standards. Pantyhose? Haven't worn them in almost 25 years, won't ever wear them again. When I first left home I was so self-conscious of my bare legs I wouldn't wear SHORTS without pantyhose. I got over it, and so has most of society, as time has passed.

I don't wear makeup, and I never will. If I came upon an employer who tried to require me to wear makeup you'd see a lawsuit shortly. IN CONTEXT; there is no job I'm going to be applying for that would have any excuse for making such a requirement.

As far as the hijab and purdah being compared to full frontal nudity, we don't stone women for going topless on the beach. Women in certain areas of the world where Islamic law is trumping secular law are beaten, raped, and killed for so much as showing a strand of hair. It's not even mandated by the Qu'ran. It's something that's barely mentioned in the Hadith, based on varying translations of 3 different sentences.

That's hardly the same thing as going topless and getting fined and maybe arrested.

[OakLeaf]

we don't stone women for going topless on the beach.

First of all, the comment I was responding to was one about women being "asked to" cover their hair. In the context of a discussion about what women are "asked to" wear on the job. Not what we're being stoned for doing.

Second, although it's certainly true that some of the behavior you mention is sanctioned by law in some countries, most of it is extrajudicial. A woman in the United States who was raped after walking topless down the street would get very little sympathy from most quarters, either, I'm sorry to say.


And I still think there's a strong chance that asking those questions in a job interview is a test, not a real search for the answers.

[Jolt]

Wow, this thread has morphed a bit. To me, it's like the make up discussion that comes up every so often. Yeah, I wear make up, get my hair highlighted, wear nail polish. And I like to dress up. I guess I don't get why people think this is so horrible. I am not really a girly-girl, but even if I was, so what?


It's perfectly fine if someone *chooses* to do those things because they like it. The issue is with making it a requirement or an expectation and "forcing" people to do it in order to be acceptable. Especially for impractical, uncomfortable and potentially unhealthy things like hose and heels (and neckties for guys--especially in a clinical setting where they have been SHOWN to be an infection control problem). As for people thinking bare legs (in good condition and under a skirt of a decent length) are "gross", I still don't get it.

[ZenSojourner]

Ahem. Is it like a French woman being asked to wear something above the waist when she sunbathes on American beaches?

Okay, discussions about hijab are pretty far beyond this thread... but it raises my hackles when people suggest that OUR standards of modesty are reasonable and properly enforceable by law, and OTHER cultures' standards of modesty are not reasonable and should not be enforced by law.

I was responding to what is enforced by law, not what is "asked".

[Tuckervill]

Is it perhaps because it in fact is not applied to them, i.e. there are not sufficient complaints filed against them and cases that end up in courts to cause them to bother? What if every female candidate sued their @$$ off for asking such questions?

Maybe they'd stop asking the questions and using the answers in their hiring decisions! Imagine that! :)

Karen

[Deborajen]

Honestly, what would you think of men's bare legs in your office?

This sits in the back of my mind as far as dress code. Is it really fair for women to go hoseless with a dress saying panty hose is hot, yet require men to wear slacks and not shorts? If I hire a man, I might have to face this. What's the difference, really? We like our legs but not men's?

I'm really not trying to force my preferences on my employees. Like I said, we're leaning towards NOT making panty hose a requirement, but I want to be fair - and there are a lot of opinions and preferences, some of them pretty strong -

[Crankin]

I am not opposed to socks... in fact I have many many pairs of cycling socks because they are cheap fixes for my addiction to cycling apparel.
My standards are only for me. Your former professor seems slightly, uh, strange. I don't think bare legs are "gross," I just don't think stockings are, either. So, when it's a bit too warm for tights and too cold for bare legs, I wear them.
I have never worked anywhere with a dress code, but I don't think they are so bad in certain situations. I remember when girls had to wear dresses and skirts to school; a bunch of us started wearing jeans to class (in 1968), until the school gave in to us. So, I am not totally unaware of the effects of dress codes. I guess I won't speak any more about the way I dress (except for my wool purchases), because I seem to be in the distinct minority here, which is the total opposite of my real life.
I wish I were still "young," when dressing professionally meant the difference between others thinking whether I was 16 or 30!

[ZenSojourner]

Men in shorts . . .

Men in kilts . . .

Be still my beating heart! LOL!

SO MOTE IT BE!

[Blueberry]

Maybe they'd stop asking the questions and using the answers in their hiring decisions! Imagine that! :)

Karen

I used their answers in my decision as to whether to accept their offer, that's for sure:)

CA

[Deanna]

My two cents on the hose issue is they should not be required, however, I support an HR policy that states "professional and neat appearance". This would cover you if you need to request somebody where them for whatever reason.

Personally, for me, it all depends on the shoe. Hose seems to prevent foot sweat from building up in the shoe (don't ask me how, that's just an observation). Some of the shoes I wear with a suit just start making noises if I don't wear hose. IMHO that is not professional and makes me self conscious and uncomfortable, so I wear hose with those particular shoes.

[OakLeaf]

Men in shorts . . .

Men in kilts . . .

Be still my beating heart! LOL!

SO MOTE IT BE!

Sorry, I just get flashes of that guy in "Reno 911." :eek::p

[ACG]

My first job in a department store, they wanted us to dress professionally (in dresses), wear hose, 1977 to 1980

1980 to 1986 Corporate headquarters for retailer, hose, professional, slacks were okay, no open toe shoes.

1986 to 1999 Law Firms of various sizes and types of law (except entertainment law) in downtown Los Angeles Professional attire (suits) , hose, towards the end of the nineties, this started to slack off a bit. Heck for a while when casual fridays first started, they told us no jeans.

1999 to Now-Large corporations, engineering and accounting, no mention of hose, just professional attire. A professional skirt, blouse usually does it.

Thing is I've always worked in HR or Office Management. So I've always had to dress one step up from everyone else, to set the example. If I came into work in a mid-driff or worn clothing, low cut tops, jeans, dockers, sandals, t-shirts, short skirst, etc, well it would be very frowned upon very much.

I don't know how to not wear hose with some shoes, heels, pumps. So I wear hose depending on the shoe and the skirt.

Right now I'm wearing Jeans, with slack socks and heeled hush puppies and a blue sweater set. Boring I know, but I'm not hear to impress people with my stylish outfits, I have a job to do.

On weekends, it is sandal, shorts and a t--shirt.

Hope this helps.

Mind you I have to wear these outfits, but do style my clothes for my tastes. I can't wear

[ZenSojourner]

Sorry, I just get flashes of that guy in "Reno 911." :eek::p

Oh thank you very much!

You just HAD to go and spoil it for me, didn't you?

LIAM NEESON! COME BACK! SHE DIDN'T MEAN IT!

[BikeDutchess]

Thread hijack, I know, but on the subject of dress codes: U of Oregon to Frisbee team: No pants, no season (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090501/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_naked_frisbee) :eek:

Anyway, back to the work place - when I still worked in the office (I telecommute full-time now), one reason I rarely wore skirts is that I hated wearing hose. Perhaps now it is more acceptable to not wear hose, but I also hate wearing (work-appropriate) shoes with bare feet.

I really enjoyed reading the various viewpoints in this thread. I recently read an article about how millennials, Gen Xers and baby boomers get along in the workplace, and the issue of dress code (and even panty hose specifically) was discussed as well in the context of generational differences. Reading this thread, to me it seems as much a practical issue as a generational one.

[deeaimond]

I never liked hose, and here no one wears hose anymore. (not even in the courts as far as I've seen.) pantyhose under pants?????

as for with some shoes, here we can get mini-socks that are for pumps or ballet flats. They're very thin but thicker than panty hose and just cover the part of the foot that is in the shoe. I think its a japanese/korean invention.
I wear those...