Gallbladders and Children

[Flybye]

Hello, I need some advice please.
My daughter who is 11 years old has been having stomach pain off and on for about a year. We tried eliminating nuts, milk products, and treating her as if she had an ulcer. Finally, we relented and went to the pediatrician.
DD had an upper GI - negative, an ultrasound - negative (NO gallstones), and a chem 14 - perfect.
A little over a week ago she had a gallbladder scan. Her gallbladder is not emptying. Any empty rate of 35% or less is an indication for surgery, her empty rate was 0%.
Since the scan we have eliminated fat entirely from her diet which has helped immensely. She still has an episode of pain nightly around 11:00, but other than that has been doing well. (She was in so much pain before this that she was throwing up occasionally and has missed about 12 days of school; the pain so bad she couldn't get to sleep).
She is not obese by any stretch of the imagination - in fact she is in the 110th percentile on height and 40th percentile for weight. I consider us pretty healthy eaters compared to the general population. None of us are above our BMI range.
We have a surgical consult on Monday at 3:45. I have so many questions before we proceed with surgery.
Herein lies where I would like some advice -
Have any of you been diagnosed by a physician with a gallbladder that is not functioning and tried remedies other than surgery? Cleanses, etc. How successful or unsuccessful? Any other advice?
I absolutely hate the thought of putting her through surgery if there is another remedy. I also am not optimistic that if her gallbladder is not functioning that it can start working again. She is in so much pain.

Thanks for your input.

[Tuckervill]

Aww, I'm sorry about the little darling. A whole year of pain is rough.

I've never heard of this before, so I don't have any advice. I will say that the gallbladder surgery is pretty routine, and the surgery itself will be a piece of cake. I don't know that I'd rush into it without quite a bit of research. She is, after all, only 11.

Sending good vibes your way.

Karen

[jobob]

No advice alas, but my best wishes for your daughter!

[crazycanuck]

Flybye, I think LBTC went through something similar a few years back. She may have mentioned something in the health section? If not, send her an email.

I hope she's pain free soon!!

Take care

[channlluv]

As the mother of an 11-year-old daughter myself, I'm sending yours all the healing energy I can. I hope you can find a solution for her soon.

Roxy

[withm]

Keep in mind that to a surgeon, every problem has a surgical solution.

I'd do a lot of research online before the consultation and ask a lot of questions before I consented to any surgery. If the Dr. is uncomfortable with the questions, look for another one.

I'd want to know how common this condition is, and what the success rates are after surgery. What happens to young children after this kind of surgery? Does it make them more prone for other conditions down the road? What are the suggested treatments if you don't have surgery? Will she still have to have a restricted diet or take medications afterward? For how long? What are the side effects from the medications? Might this be cured with dietary changes alone? If she has some improvement with a low or zero fat diet how much fat would you estimate she had been consuming before the change. Could there be particular trigger factors that exercabate the condition. Have you kept a food diary to see any patterns? Could you?

I could probably think up a lot more questions but I think you get my drift.

Of course you want to have your daughter treated quickly and efficiently, and most of all, safely. But surgery is still considered by many to be a pretty drastic measure. Yes, it has it's place, but you really want to consider all the aspects of such a step. (My father was a surgeon, and he always advised us never to have surgery unless it was absolutely necessary and that we fully understood what would be done, why, and really understood what the limitations or other effects afterward might be).

Keep in mind that a doctor is a businessman/woman just like any other and he wants your business. We'd all love to believe our doctors are just like Marcus Welby and that they really care about us, and some of them do, but I think in many cases they are just too hamstrung by insurance companies requirements and have to see more and more patients each day just to break even (there's that business problem again) thus we just don't get the care and attention that we should any more.

Good luck. This is a decision that no parent should ever have to make. Let us know how it turns out.

[Aggie_Ama]

I don't have any advice but my Dad and college roomate had their gallbladders removed. Both laprascopically and were out of the hospital same day or next day. My college roomie had to stay overnight because she had a baby by c-section a month before the docs just wanted to be careful with her. Anyway, I hope there is another remedy but if not the surgery is relatively routine (but scary as any surgery is) and the scar for most people is small. Oh and both of those two feel tons better after electing to have the surgery after several years I do not know that either has issues because of not having a gallbladder. ((HUGS))

[OakLeaf]

Keep in mind that to a surgeon, every problem has a surgical solution.

+1 to this, and I was REALLY glad to hear the same thing from my psychiatrist. It's not just my anti-doctor "bias" if you want to call it that, it's a way that surgeons think that even other doctors recognize.

Other than that, I don't have anything to offer. I know my sister had good luck with a GB cleanse last year, but she's an adult, and I don't know how bad hers was before the cleanse. When I had GB problems it was all diet and stress - once I cleaned that up, I haven't had another attack in almost 30 years.

Sending healing vibes to your daughter and serene ones to you.

[sundial]

Keeping you and your daughter in my thoughts and prayers. :)

[mtbdarby]

Are there any homeopathic doctors you can go to for a second opinion? I think I'd try that first if it's an option. Regardless, best of luck and I hope she's painfree soon.

[maillotpois]

No suggestions, but I am sorry you guys are going through this. :(

[Tokie]

Fybye - you live in a pretty small town in Idaho don't you? ( I went to nursing school at ISU) Has your daughter seen a pediatric gastroenterologist? I would recommend a consultation/second opinion with one. And hopefully someone can guide you to a surgeon who is very competent in laparoscopic gall bladder surgery, if it comes to that. Good luck! Tokie By the way - one of our nurses and one of our scrub techs (both) went through exhaustive diagnostic testing for suspected gallstones. They had horrible episodes of colic and both lost lots of weight because eating so frequently caused pain (and they had to eat such a low fat diet to avoid pain). Their diagnostic tests never showed definitive gall stones, but they are both very pleased to have had their laparoscopic gall bladder surgeries. Sometimes the gallstones are tiny, more like sand than stones, and cause the same type of problems as large and obvious gallstones, without showing up on even the most high tech nuclear medicine scans.

[Crankin]

+1 to Tokie's advice. One of my kids had gastro issues at birth and we went directly to a pediatric gastroenterologist.
No offense to anyone, but "cleanses" haven't exactly been found to cure gall bladder disease. The dietary things do work, but i can't imagine it's good for a child to have a no-fat diet. I am not surgery happy, but I have known several people who have had the lap. procedure, and they were up and about in just a couple of days. It sure would be awful to be a kid with constant stomach pain and I would think this deserves a permanent solution.

[mtbdarby]

I wasn't gonna mention this because you said she didn't have gallstones, but a homeopathic way to get rid of gallstone is to eat all the raw asparagus and drink all the coke classic (coke classic only - no substitutes!) that you can in 2 hours. I know a couple of people that did this and never had a problem again. Of course, I didn't find this out until after I had my gall bladder out:p

It took me about a week to recover from the surgery. The worst part was the bloated tummy from the air they pump in there for the surgery. It's been a year since the surgery and I can still clearly see 3 of the 4 scars they gave me from the laproscopic surgery. The biggest is a 1 inch horizontal scar just below my sturnum. The other 2 are 1/4" and are on the right side of my stomach.

Unfortunately, I can easily eat anything now:p Two of my sisters have had there's out and they have discomfort if they eat high fat meals. I'm thinking for me, that would have been a good thing, lol.

Best of luck!

[Trekhawk]

Hello, I need some advice please.
My daughter who is 11 years old has been having stomach pain off and on for about a year. We tried eliminating nuts, milk products, and treating her as if she had an ulcer. Finally, we relented and went to the pediatrician.
DD had an upper GI - negative, an ultrasound - negative (NO gallstones), and a chem 14 - perfect.
A little over a week ago she had a gallbladder scan. Her gallbladder is not emptying. Any empty rate of 35% or less is an indication for surgery, her empty rate was 0%.
Since the scan we have eliminated fat entirely from her diet which has helped immensely. She still has an episode of pain nightly around 11:00, but other than that has been doing well. (She was in so much pain before this that she was throwing up occasionally and has missed about 12 days of school; the pain so bad she couldn't get to sleep).
She is not obese by any stretch of the imagination - in fact she is in the 110th percentile on height and 40th percentile for weight. I consider us pretty healthy eaters compared to the general population. None of us are above our BMI range.
We have a surgical consult on Monday at 3:45. I have so many questions before we proceed with surgery.
Herein lies where I would like some advice -
Have any of you been diagnosed by a physician with a gallbladder that is not functioning and tried remedies other than surgery? Cleanses, etc. How successful or unsuccessful? Any other advice?
I absolutely hate the thought of putting her through surgery if there is another remedy. I also am not optimistic that if her gallbladder is not functioning that it can start working again. She is in so much pain.

Thanks for your input.

Flybye I hope your daughter will be feeling better soon. Two of my sons had surgery for Hernias (apparently boys can be born with them) at the end of last year and it was a scary thing for us all. What I did notice was that children seem to bounce back quickly from operations and my boys were no different. The hardest part was keeping them from doing too much for the required time after the operations. My boys were 11 and 9 years of age when they had their surgery. Sending healthy vibes your way.

[Flybye]

I thank everyone for the advice so far.
We are headed to a pediatric doc of internal medicine (Tokie you may know him - Dr. McInturff, and yes, Blackfoot is a small town) for a second opinion and from there hope to be referred to a gastro doc.
DD is exhausted from dealing with the pain. We are too. Fortunately she has the advantage of being able to sleep in - we don't have that luxury and are EXHAUSTED.
I am going to run the cleanse idea by the doc tomorrow, following suggestions that all of you have offered. Also I will include suggestions for things to ask the doc that were offered.
Again, thanks and I will keep you posted.

[AnnieBikes]

I am also a great believer in the 2nd opinion route and a believer in that going to a surgeon nets you surgery. One of the questions my husband, a physician, would have you ask. "If this was YOUR _____ (child, mother, husband, father etc...insert proper person), what would you do?" He often recommends that to people who ask him, as a friend, what to do in a certain medical situation (no particular situation). If there is any hesitation, then get ANOTHER opinion. I think the suggestion to go to a pediatric gastroenterologist was very good. This seems to be a problem that needs further work-up and expertise.

Good luck and I send good karma and healing thoughts your way.

[Flybye]

Just wanted to take a second and update everyone.
DD goes in tomorrow, Wednesday am, for surgery to have her gallbladder removed.
We have had more doctors visits than I can count but we have ruled out so many other things that we are now comfortable (okay that is a lie, really, how can you be comfortable with surgery on a kid) with the surgery.
Thanks for all your imput.
Now I covet your prayers.....

[salsabike]

You got it, Flybye. In 24 hours, you all will be coming out the other side and this and starting to get better.

[shootingstar]

Best wishes for good recovery for DD!

[Tuckervill]

Vibing it up for good outcome over here!

Karen

[Trekhawk]

Sending wishes for a speedy recovery.:)

[Deborajen]

Best wishes - let us know how she's doing. I'd be a little suspicious of a gallbladder that doesn't empty - and no stones? I've been through gallstones and they are painful. I sympathise with her - whatever the cause of the gallbladder not working right - and hope she feels better soon!

[mtbdarby]

You've got my prayers. Please let us know how the surgery goes and how she's doing.

[ASammy1]

My prayers have been sent!

Please post an update as soon as you can so we can all feel relieved with you. :o

[Flybye]

Hello!
We are home - everything went without a flaw.
She is awake and chatty and doing great.
I have recovered, too. I thought I might pass out or throw up while waiting for her, but a little coca-cola and some crackers did the trick. She was braver than I ever would have been. She didn't cry or resist going this morning. She wanted to see her gallbladder after they removed it. She asked if she could be awake and watch :eek: the procedure. They said no :). She wanted pictures. She didn't flinch when they gave her the IV. I know that I gave birth to her, but today makes me wonder if she really is my child :D. We may have a future doctor on our hands.

And in case this may be helpful to anyone else, we tested for ulcers, Hpylori ulcers, liver/pancreas functioning, and celiac disease before we had her surgery. Those are all things that can contibute/mimic gallbaldder pain. Her HIDA scan empty rate was 0%

Thanks for all of your support, my TE family!

[ASammy1]

Hello!
We are home - everything went without a flaw.
She is awake and chatty and doing great.
I have recovered, too. I thought I might pass out or throw up while waiting for her, but a little coca-cola and some crackers did the trick. She was braver than I ever would have been. She didn't cry or resist going this morning. She wanted to see her gallbladder after they removed it. She asked if she could be awake and watch :eek: the procedure. They said no :). She wanted pictures. She didn't flinch when they gave her the IV. I know that I gave birth to her, but today makes me wonder if she really is my child :D. We may have a future doctor on our hands.

And in case this may be helpful to anyone else, we tested for ulcers, Hpylori ulcers, liver/pancreas functioning, and celiac disease before we had her surgery. Those are all things that can contibute/mimic gallbaldder pain. Her HIDA scan empty rate was 0%

Thanks for all of your support, my TE family!

Ummm that was quick!

I'm so glad that everything went well and that she was so brave (and interested!) I'm wishing you both a super speedy recovery!

[Tuckervill]

Whew! Glad that's over and hope it's all over for good!

She sounds like a pro!

Karen

[Trekhawk]

Hello!
We are home - everything went without a flaw.
She is awake and chatty and doing great.
I have recovered, too. I thought I might pass out or throw up while waiting for her, but a little coca-cola and some crackers did the trick. She was braver than I ever would have been. She didn't cry or resist going this morning. She wanted to see her gallbladder after they removed it. She asked if she could be awake and watch :eek: the procedure. They said no :). She wanted pictures. She didn't flinch when they gave her the IV. I know that I gave birth to her, but today makes me wonder if she really is my child :D. We may have a future doctor on our hands.

And in case this may be helpful to anyone else, we tested for ulcers, Hpylori ulcers, liver/pancreas functioning, and celiac disease before we had her surgery. Those are all things that can contibute/mimic gallbaldder pain. Her HIDA scan empty rate was 0%

Thanks for all of your support, my TE family!

Wonderful news!

[salsabike]

Flybye, she sounds like a wonderful and delightful kid. And thanks for the update.

[mtbdarby]

Flybye,
Thanks for the update. What a trooper you have on your hands! I'm glad she's recovery great (that you both are:p). I sure hope she's feeling loads better already.

[msincredible]

Glad to hear she's doing so well! :)

[Biciclista]

glad she's doing ok! Can they tell anything by looking at her excised gallbladder?

[OakLeaf]

Glad she's doing so well. Hope the healing is uneventful and quick!