Really Salty Energy Drinks?

[smurfalicious]

The last few miles of my ride the other day I started to feel what I call my 30 mile headache. It was only 70ish and I was at a little over 20 miles. I had already gone through the vast majority of 2 20oz water bottles (one PowerBar Endurance and one Nuun) and I was good and started drinking early.

Admittedly I was "in the hole" a little fluids wise when I left but not bad. Anyway, I get this headache almost without fail regardless of temp or for that matter fluid consumption. I even got it on a ride where I refilled bottles twice thanks to a kindly farmer and local restaurant.

I am also part radiant heater, I do believe. I rode yesterday in just shorts and jersey. My boss rode today in just a hair cooler weather and came back with his arm warmers and vest still on. I was a big red bucket of sweat, he was cool as a cucumber.

The only thing that has ever subdued 30 mile headache is Shot Blox in margarita with the extra salt. So I think as a result of my "uber hotness" and propensity towards sweat (don't worry, not trying to quit, I LOVE SWEATING!!!!) that I need a super salty drink. I have a think of Power Bar Endurance and at first at seemed salty but not any more. I <3 Nuun tabs but they don't seem to do much good for me beyond being flavor to at least make me drink.

I could add salt or something, but I'd rather just have it be right from the get go. Any ideas? Or alternate theories?

[Eden]

How about Elete? It's drops, that I believe are tasteless. You can add them to plain water, but you could also add them to your NUUN and/or Endurance for a little extra punch.

[Miranda]

:)Hi Smurf...

I have just the thing for you in this link below (E-Lyte Sport)...

http://www.crampnomore.com/

I can not stand the taste of sweet drinks. This stuff doesn't have that, or the sugary calories. Just the salty good stuff. You can pre-load shots, dilute it and mix your own bottles, etc. Plus, if you wanted extra on the ride, you could technically carry some in a small travel size container. Maybe something like those tiny screw cap bottles peeps use for the airplane for shampoo etc. in a jersey pocket. Re-mix a bottle on re-fill, shot, etc.

If you don't like the salty taste so much I think maybe adding a lemon wedge to the bottle, or squeezing some juice in might be a way to add flavor you like. I just do it salty straight up as is.

As far as the guy riding pal... women in general have more body fat (we need it to protect us for bearing babies etc. genetically). The more fat insulation you have on your body, the more you need to sweat to cool yourself off. Our hormones at different times of the month can sometimes play into how hot or cold we feel too (& if retaining H2O, or shedding it in your cycle)--something men don't have to deal with.

Hope this helps some!

[Andrea]

Add an 1/8th tsp of salt to a bottle of powerbar endurance.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I just use some Emergen-C powder in my water for long rides (over 30 miles). It's got plenty of electrolytes and sodium. For shorter rides, just water. Plus, I never ride on an empty stomach.

[Brandy]

Historically, I don't do well in the heat. Last year I was able to manage it much better and I believe it was being pro-active about my electrolyte consumption.

My vote is for Motortabs (http://www.motortabs.com/). I always carry some in my pockets, particularly when I'm training in the mountains. When I was training for Everest Challenge last year, I spent alot of time in the San Gabriel Mountains. There aren't a whole lot of options as far as refilling and on a hot day, I can blow through two bottles on the first climb and still be left with a 12 mile climb ahead of me before I can refill.

I started pre-hydrating on the drive there with 24 oz of water and two Motor Tabs. I can't tell you what a HUGE difference this made in my training out there. I also use them anytime that I don't feel a big need for calories, but need to hydrate instead. I don't go out to the mountains without them now and any longer ride, they are in my jersey pocket.

[sundial]

I second the Elete. I crave salt on a ride and this helps.

[ttaylor508]

I sweat big time on long rides and usually end up with a salt covered crust over everything. What works for me is Gleukos. It isn't sweet at all, just like light lemon flavored water and comes in a powder so you can add to your water when you feel you need it. I also use Endurolyte tabs.

Don't know about it being a female thing, I think it just depends on the person.
DH sweats, but doesn't get the salty crust. One of my other riding buddies sweats like I do and we compare salt markings at the end of our rides. He is an ironman with very very little body fat. Other riding buddy rarely sweats at all.

[Running Mommy]

Check out Infinit.com
I have a special extra salty formula, because I'm in the same boat. I love that I can customize my formula. And they guarantee it!

[OakLeaf]

I sweat like crazy, but I'm not convinced that it's only salt I need to replace. (And my body fat isn't THAT high. I sweat way more than a lot of people I know who have much higher body fat.)

I'm being lazy right now (other things on my mind) - anyone want to point me in the direction of research on sweat loss of electrolytes? I know for sure I sweat out lots of magnesium, for one thing. And it troubles me to replace sodium and not potassium. So I'm a fan of Emergen-C too. I just wish it didn't have so much ascorbic acid (which can leach calcium). I tried the knock-off brand with Ester-C, but the packaging just wasn't completely moisture tight, so they were mostly cakey lumps. Yuk.

[Running Mommy]

Oak, when I'm in heavy training periods I have to suppliment both mag and potasium. It's a pain to have to time all of it, but if I don't I have big problems. My doctor did some blood work once and it was scary.
I seem to remember her saying something about women leeching magnesium.

[TrekTheKaty]

I'm not sure of the salt content, but I use Cytomax. It's not overly sweet and good for energy on long rides.

[Triskeliongirl]

I can't help but wonder if you aren't overhydrating. That will also dilute your blood to the point where your electrolyte levels can drop too low. 2 x 20 oz is a LOT to drink on a 20 mile ride when its only in the 70s. I would barely drink that much on a 40 mile ride if it were that cool out.

My husband gets cramps from low electrolytes. He drinks a V8 at the rest stop. We both also tried pickle juice once that was served on a group ride rest stop. Tasted better than it sounds and also high in electrolytes.

[Andrea]

Oh yeah- I also forgot to mention Pickle Juice Sport (http://www.goldenpicklejuice.com/)- either you'll love it or you'll gag on it!

[OakLeaf]

I can't help but wonder if you aren't overhydrating. That will also dilute your blood to the point where your electrolyte levels can drop too low. 2 x 20 oz is a LOT to drink on a 20 mile ride when its only in the 70s. I would barely drink that much on a 40 mile ride if it were that cool out.

I'll easily sweat out a liter an hour when it's in the 70s, especially depending on the humidity. I'm also of the school that says that if you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough. I'm very susceptible to hyponatremia, but not replacing fluids isn't the solution to that - replacing electrolytes is!

But if anyone wonders about that, the old stand-by of weighing yourself naked before and after exertion is an easy way to tell whether you've replaced all your fluids or whether you've possibly drank too much. ("A pint's a pound the world around," or less lyrically one kilogram equals one liter.) Of course that doesn't say whether you were properly hydrated to begin with, but it's a starting point.

[roadie gal]

Oak, when I'm in heavy training periods I have to suppliment both mag and potasium. It's a pain to have to time all of it, but if I don't I have big problems. My doctor did some blood work once and it was scary.
I seem to remember her saying something about women leeching magnesium.

2+ on Infinit. I'm a very heavy sweater so I have the electrolytes dialed up pretty high. Infinit's worked very well for me. The nice thing about it is that you can also adjust how strong the taste/sweetness is as well as the electrolyte content.

[ny biker]

I'm also of the school that says that if you're not peeing, you're not drinking enough. I'm very susceptible to hyponatremia, but not replacing fluids isn't the solution to that - replacing electrolytes is!

I've been wondering about this for years. I don't pee much during long rides on hot days, but after the ride ends I have to go every 20-30 minutes for the rest of the day. So what does this mean - losing too many electrolytes?

Compounding this is the fact that my stomach will not tolerate food during these rides. I'm limited to gu (vanilla or orange), gatorade (orange or lemon-lime) and water. I can't force myself to ingest anything else.

[RoadRaven]

I agree with Andrea's first post (made at about 12:34am my time!!!:p )
Just add salt.
She suggests some into your normal drink.

My partner has this issue... sometimes he mixes glucose and salt into his tap water, sometimes he takes one or two pieces of rock salt and just pops one under his tongue, sometimes he just eats something salty when he gets home.

He does about 400kms per week in an average week (up to 850km when he is riding base, down to about 250km when he tapers) so he does alot of sweating and is very aware of losing those precious minerals.

Its great if you find a "brand name" manufactured drink/gu/bar which works for you... but you don't have to buy the ready made stuff - salt is salt - its in people's kitchens... and it much cheaper that way.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I can't help but wonder if you aren't overhydrating. That will also dilute your blood to the point where your electrolyte levels can drop too low. 2 x 20 oz is a LOT to drink on a 20 mile ride when its only in the 70s. I would barely drink that much on a 40 mile ride if it were that cool out.
My husband gets cramps from low electrolytes. He drinks a V8 at the rest stop. We both also tried pickle juice once that was served on a group ride rest stop. Tasted better than it sounds and also high in electrolytes.

I was just thinking this as well, and speaking for myself, I can't imagine drinking 40 oz of fluid for a mere 20 mile ride at 70F degrees either. I rode 20 miles this morning at 50F and didn't feel like drinking at all, but I made myself drink about 8 oz midway through anyway (eat before you're hungry, drink before you're thirsty and all). I started my ride after drinking a glass of water anyway. At 70F I probably usually drink about 16oz over a 20 mile ride and feel comfortable. I drink a lot more when it's hotter of course.

Unless you are sweating huge amounts during that 20 miles, you might think about cutting down on the sheer volume of your fluids, while adding some electrolytes to your water and continuing to have nutritious snacks in your stomach.
Drinking way too much water within a certain period of time can actually cause severe headaches.

One other thing worth mentioning, simply because it seems odd to me that a young person would consistently get headaches after riding 20 miles. (and by the way...do you get headaches frequently when not riding?)
This happened to me- I was wearing some Polarized sunglasses that i 'thought' were high quality, but as it turns out they were giving me terrible headaches. I only wore them while riding my bike, and I would get a nasty headache every time after about 30 minutes of riding. When it dawned on me, I experimented with removing the glasses and sure enough my headache would totally disappear after 10 minutes of riding. I put them back on and the headache would quickly return. I dumped them and got better sunglasses and the headaches disappeared. Maybe not what's going on for you, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

[smurfalicious]

Ha ha NY, I'm the same way. I get back from a ride and start going in and out the bathroom like Barkley on Sesame Street wanted outside/inside. On the Tour De Cure though, OMG I would pee twice at rest areas and sometimes water trees and I really don't think I was drinking much.

I don't normally get headaches, but my "30 mile headache" usually feels exactly like a wicked hangover. My brain does not fit in my skull, light hurts, bumps in the road hurt, etc.

The sunglasses are a good call, I've heard that before. I wear these sunglasses all the time though, so I think they'd do it other times, right?

I think I'll look into the Elete since I can get a little starter bottle cheap and take it from there. That way I can use up the Power Bar Endurance. And it could turn Odwalla Superfood into an energy drink, or any other delicious beverage.

This is going to sound weird, but if I liked cherry or apple flavors, I'd get some horse electrolytes for me. I used to give them to my horse in the summers when we were doing hard workouts 5-6 nights a week. I've tasted it, it's not that bad. And $10 for a 5lb tub, just cannot be beat. For once, my most expensive hobby has a cheaper resource than my other drain.

http://www.farnamhorse.com/product.php?catmain=&mainkey=&pid=100153&key=300139&cat=Electrolytes

Yeah the simple answer is tossing salt into my beverages but I am much too spastic to remember to do that. I'd have to figure out what's left in the container, how many servings it is, and mix salt into it.

[OakLeaf]

Ooooh, looky what I found.

Homemade Energy Gels (http://www.summitpost.org/article/239378/home-made-power-gels-energy-for-less.html)

I started wondering about using plain barley malt, like brewers use (which is pretty much a gel as is, contains simple and complex carbs, electrolytes and protein e-venn).

I may still do that, but this page is very interesting!

[smurfalicious]

Ooooh, looky what I found.

Homemade Energy Gels (http://www.summitpost.org/article/239378/home-made-power-gels-energy-for-less.html)

I started wondering about using plain barley malt, like brewers use (which is pretty much a gel as is, contains simple and complex carbs, electrolytes and protein e-venn).

I may still do that, but this page is very interesting!

Yeah I've been scoping out some recipes too. The little tubes from Hammer and other brands are pretty cheap. I still suck at gels, they make me gag like all get out. Probably just gagging by association because I'd always take them before races when I wanted to puke anyway. I figure if I get an empty squeeze bottle from the cake decor section at the craft store it will make it easier to fill the little bottles.

[fidlfreek]

Gatorade makes a special kind of Gatorade thats called Endurance. It has like 3x the amount of sodium.

[smurfalicious]

Hey just wanted to say thanks for recommending Elete. I love the stuff! Everyone at work was grossed out when I got it in. Apparently they are not fans. I totally dig it. Then again when I grew up consuming salted koolaid when certain stomach upsets happened and I loooove Pedialyte for that these days. I got the little tiny bottle, but ordered a big 16oz one the other day now that it's tested and approved. Hurray, now Vitamin Water XXX can be my riding beverage!

[ZenSojourner]

From the Infini-T website:


Osmolality is a measure of how much “stuff” is in your sports drink. If there is too much “stuff” your drink will be too dense and your body will treat it like a food. The unfortunate result: Failure. Your system shuts down and stops processing it, resulting in gastric distress, cramping, and worse.

http://www.infinitnutrition.us/information/osmofit.asp

Is THAT why I get cramping and nausea if I try to drink uncut gatorade when I'm riding????

I have never been able to drink Gatorade or any of it's look-alikes, not while I'm riding anyway, and I can't use any of the energy bars I've ever tried. I actually threw up a couple of times in the beginning before I learned to cut the Gatorade 1:3 and leave the energy bars STRICTLY ALONE.

Lately I've been drinking Propel on long rides because it's the only thing I know I can keep down. I take extra Propel with me on long rides even if they're SAGged because all they ever give you at rest stops is Gatorade and if I forget to cut it, I'm in trouble. It's slightly better than water but I really don't think it has a balanced proportion of electrolytes and vitamins, it's just all I've ever been able to keep down.

Honestly I've been afraid to experiment because I can't tell for sure whether or not something's going to affect me unless I try it under stress, like on an actual ride, and you do NOT want to be in the middle of a 50 mile ride and be overcome with stomach cramps!

InfinIT, Enervit, the Motor tabs - is any of this stuff safe for me to try? Has ANYBODY else had the problems with Gatorade they describe above, or is that just marketing hype and I'm still some kind of loner freak? I've never found anybody who has the same trouble I do with Gatorade and energy bars/gels, but that blurb from the InfinIT website makes it sound like it's a known, common problem

[Becky]

ZenS, like you, I don't tolerate straight Gatorade well, though not to the extent that I regurgitate it. I can't speak to some of the other recommendations in this thread, but I've had good results with Vitalyte (except the orange flavor). The citrus flavor is probably the easiest on the stomach. They sell little 4 serving trial packets if you want to try without a big commitment: http://www.vitalytestore.com/

It might be worth experimenting with some different products to see what your stomach likes.