pedals/clips/clipless 101?

[hipmama]

Hey there!
I'm new here~ second season cyclist - well, born again- took a break for a few years while my daughter was wee and I was working my butt off, and we got back into biking together last year.
We have a tandem mountain bike that we ride together but I'm enforcing more time for myself to ride solo and am loving it.
Which leads me to pedals and clips. I am picking up my "new to me" road bike at the end of the week I'll be moving into the clipless pedal system.
I really don't know anything about them, like, it's coming with pedals, will any bike shoes fit into them or do you have to get pedals with shoes that work with them?
I know they can be tightened and loosened to make for easier in and out- suggestions on how to do so?
Are there types that are easier for in and out than others? I know I have to learn and just get the feel for them and likely fall a few times but I'd like to set myself up for success by at least starting off with a good set up.
Also, my daughter is now asking for clips on her pedals on our tandem. She'll be 10 this summer. Any suggestions on a set up for kids?
Thanks!

[tctrek]

Welcome to TE, Hipmama! Are you saying your bike is coming with clipless pedals already? If that's the case, you will need to find out what kind of pedals they are and purchase cycling shoes and cleats for the bottom of your shoes that match the pedals.

For example, if there are SPD pedals on your bike, you'll need SPD cleats on your shoes. I'm no expert, but I started riding my road bike with mountain bike shoes and SPD pedals/cleats.

Whatever you do, the pedals on the bike and the cleats on the shoes have to match.

[hipmama]

Yup, it has clipless pedals now- I just forgot to find out what kind they were! I'll be picking it up at the end of the week so I'll know soon. I figured there had to be a match but there's so many shoes out there and so many gadgets!

[OakLeaf]

Some cleats attach to the shoes with three bolts (Look is the most common), some only have two (Shimano SPD is the most common). Some shoes will accept either type, some shoes have only two holes or only three. So yes, if you're contemplating a pair of shoes that only accepts one type, you need to know what kind of pedals you have before you buy your shoes.

[hipmama]

Thanks ladies!
Alright, any suggestions on clips or clipless for kids? Just for on the tandem- not on her own bike.

[pinkbikes]

Thanks ladies!
Alright, any suggestions on clips or clipless for kids? Just for on the tandem- not on her own bike.

Hi hipmama

I also tandem with my daughter who turned 11 last week. It really is the most wonderful investment in your relationship with your daughter isn't it?

I can't count the great conversations we've had, although she has the vexing habit of asking "life, the universe and everything" kind of questions when we are slugging up some huge hill and I have to remind her that if she has the brainpower to think up that sort of question she is obviously not pedalling hard enough!:D

I have clipless pedals for me on the tandem (SPD ones because we are often touring and I want to be able to walk comfortably when we get to where we're going, and mountain bike shoes are good for that). At first I had flats on the back for her, but found that sometimes if I wasn't careful to be smooth I could fling her feet off the pedals!

She would dearly like some clipless pedals and shoes (especially since she is hoping to grow into my roadie soon) but frankly while her feet are still growing at a mile a minute it is hard to justify the expense. As a compromise I have put the original pedals back onto the stoker position on the tandem. They are normal roadie pedals with toeclips/straps. She seems pretty happy with that for now. And it certainly helps her to spin and use more of the stroke when she is pedalling, which gets us up the hills better!

Happy riding, both on the tandem and your "new to you" roadie. I can assure you that you will feel like you have wings on your roadie after lugging even the most helpful daughter on the back of a tandem!:)

[hipmama]

Thank you! The experience you have is really helpful. I was thinking of straps for her for now- between the rate of growth and the amount of our shoes that the dog manages to find when she leaves them around- that's more investing than I care to even think about!
I put in place a rule about no serious questions while going up hill last year when she started asking me about planetary alignment and gravitational pull while climbing a steep hill heading into a major intersection- she was most definitely not working hard enough!
And yes, it is the best investment ever for us as a mother daughter team. When she was younger we always did adventure weekends, a weekend in NYC, a weekend camping alone, etc. Last year I told her we were going to bike in tandem across NYS and we did and she now wants do to it every year. She has been studying field guides all year to make sure she can identify every bird, wild flower, and tree. So much better than spongebob!

[mayanorange]

Can I ask a follow up to this? I'm considering so half-toeclips for my impending commuter- anyone used them and have comments? I don't like the idea of being 'strapped' in during a commute and want to wear my sneakers, etc.

[pinkbikes]

I put in place a rule about no serious questions while going up hill last year when she started asking me about planetary alignment and gravitational pull while climbing a steep hill heading into a major intersection- she was most definitely not working hard enough!
And yes, it is the best investment ever for us as a mother daughter team. When she was younger we always did adventure weekends, a weekend in NYC, a weekend camping alone, etc. Last year I told her we were going to bike in tandem across NYS and we did and she now wants do to it every year. She has been studying field guides all year to make sure she can identify every bird, wild flower, and tree. So much better than spongebob!

Oh - that is wonderful! We have a bike tour each year run by our state cycling association (Cycle Queensland) which runs for 9days and travels from one obscure place to another! It is catered and they carry your bags and tents for you. We did it last year with DH (but he rode a lot faster and so we spent a lot of quality time with just the two of us).

It was such fun but the questions while climbing a particular mountain range were amusing (if she wasn't asking you of course). I think I got "So Mum... what's cerebral palsy and how does it happen and what does it do?" and "So Mum...why were those people petitioning for that dam not to get built and why does the dam have to be there and what will the petition do?"

I'm learning to shy away from anything that starts with "So Mum..."

And always when I'm just about scraping my lungs up off the ground straining up some monster hill!:D

[hipmama]

Off topic, but pinkbikes, do you ever have a hard transition from riding solo to getting on your tandem? I find that the more I'm riding alone now the harder it feels on the tandem with all of that extra weight. It makes me feel like we're doing something wrong, but in reality I assume it's the difference from one on a lightweight to two on a 45 lb bike... might help if I know I'm not alone!

[pinkbikes]

Off topic, but pinkbikes, do you ever have a hard transition from riding solo to getting on your tandem? I find that the more I'm riding alone now the harder it feels on the tandem with all of that extra weight. It makes me feel like we're doing something wrong, but in reality I assume it's the difference from one on a lightweight to two on a 45 lb bike... might help if I know I'm not alone!

Oh good golly yes! I kind of fell into the whole tandem thing because we wanted to cycle tour and our daughter wanted to come too and I got advice from a lady who tours with her kids that it was THE way to go. It certainly was the way to go but I will probably never be a huge devotee of the tandem for a tandem's sake!:rolleyes:

With the best intentions and encouragement in the world, 10yo girls are not powerful partners or sensational stokers! I hear people say "Oh tandems - they really get up hills well! Two lots of muscle and one lot of drag!" But I think they are overlooking the fact that little girls do not have a massive power to weight ratio and tandems are not light bikes! Maybe they are weapons when you have two strong blokes on one, but for me they are a slow-moving means to an end!

That is not to say that with a tailwind or down hills we don't really motor sometimes (and she loves it then) but uphill or with a headwind I find it a real slog!

I wear a heart rate monitor when we ride and I find riding the tandem a really good workout. Not sure why, but I do tend to ride in a bit higher gear on the tandem than my roadie, and so I find I burn my legs pretty well when I ride it. Often my legs feel quite dead for a few days afterwards.

When we did our big cycle tour last year our longest day was about 94km (just under 60mi) and we had to do quite a bit of training beforehand. I found my legs were tired all the time! When we came back I used this to my advantage and jumped straight into some hill work on my mtn bike and did a metric century as well on my road bike. I have never felt so strong on a bike in all my life!:D So the tandem is certainly good power work!

The down side of all that is that it feels like wading through custard when you first get back on it after a while of not riding it!:confused: We did a social ride on the weekend before Christmas (a reunion of the people on the bike tour) and dressed the tandem up in tinsel and fairy lights to take it for a ride. The ride was flat but I kept wondering if I'd messed up putting the wheels on and had dragging brakes!! It felt like such hard work after riding the roadie!:eek:

We will be starting our preparation for this year's cycle tour soon (we're really bitten by the bug now) and I slightly dread how my legs are going to take it for the first few weeks, but look forward to the strength it will give to my other cycling. Boy is the roadie ever going to feel light and fast then!

So yes - I think it feels like crap to everybody! You are NOT alone! But I will share some advice that the lady who set me on this course in the first place shared with me. I was struggling up some hills on a training ride and she asked if I had tried getting my daughter to stand up and pedal on the hills. Frankly it had never crossed my mind! Now she has a 13yo boy behind her, so I expect she gets a bit more of a push along, but I can assure you it is well worth it on those big sucker hills once you get used to how the bike moves a bit more! And a couple of times I've even stood up on a climb myself(but never both of us together)!!

I have found on longer days I have to do a few things to keep DD going. You probably do all these already but just in case...


I usually keep a few jelly lollies/candy (like snakes?) in my back pocket in case she needs a sugar hit. She enjoys the treat.
I am getting her a computer of her own so she can track how fast we are going and how far we've come and work out how far to go, because it drives me nuts when she asks me every ten minutes and it'll give hersomething to think about other than sticky questions for me to answer up a hill!
I try to make her conserve energy and not pedal hard on flats. I try to do most of the work then and just get her to pratice spinning. That way she saves her energy for the hills where we really need it. Note to self: Maybe this is why MY legs are always toast!?
On the big hills I try to just roll up them as steadily as I can but when I really need a kick along I get her to stand up and do ten or twenty pedals and then sit for ten or twenty etc. It really helps on the stinkers.
We wear hydration packs rather than use our waterbottles when we ride long trips. This is because on our tandem it is really hard to get the water bottles out without being stopped and there are very few traffic lights to stop at in outback Queensland! I try to remind her to drink on every downhill.
She tends to flag a bit in early afternoon and I sometimes have to get an energy drink or some type of a soft drink (soda/pop?) into her to pep her up to get the job finished. Works a treat because she sees it as a treat!


If you have any other good ideas - please share, as we can use all the help we can get!:) Otherwise - just enjoy how light that solo bike feels!

[hipmama]

Thank you thank you thank you!
Yes, I have been running through- are the brakes grabbing? Do I not have enough air in the tires? Am I pathetic?
I love the idea of the bike computer for her! I bet she would love that. She spent the bulk of winter studying field guides so she could identify birds, trees, plants, flowers while on the back and that's exciting to her, she's quite the pro now.
One tip we have found to help on the long days is we got speakers that mount on the bike that hook up to our Mp3 player and I have some of her favorites on there, some recorded book readings, sing along songs, etc. and that really helps. Nothing to make me feel hot like toodling along on the bike with the Sound of Music blaring!
We did get the camel backs this year- as yes, reaching for the bottles can suck and land us up dehydrated quickly- we both drink a lot more with the packs on the back.
We keep the nuts and dried fruits etc. around for anytime snacking- neither of us feel very good with refined sugars in our system but I do have her drink a gatorade type drink at rest stops when on tour for the sodium- but more than one a day and she has a stomach ache... not cool!
Thanks for sharing your pain, it really helps a lot- I felt really defeated today after a ride yesterday..

[wackyjacky1]

Can I ask a follow up to this? I'm considering so half-toeclips for my impending commuter- anyone used them and have comments? I don't like the idea of being 'strapped' in during a commute and want to wear my sneakers, etc.
That's what I use. I'm pretty happy with them; they're great for commuting. They are MKS brand, found 'em on eBay.
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc71/wackyjacky1/odds-n-ends/DSCN0599.jpg

[Zen]

I use half-clips on my city bike. I LOVE them!

[hipmama]

oooh, I like those half clips! How do you think it compares to clipless as far as how much extra power you get from them?

[wackyjacky1]

oooh, I like those half clips! How do you think it compares to clipless as far as how much extra power you get from them?
I haven't done clipless, so I can't say for sure. I like the half-clips 'cause I can wear any old shoe and still jump on my bike. But I recently acquired a pair of Exustar mtb shoes from a fellow TE-er, and I've found that it's the stiff sole from a cycling shoe that makes all the difference as far as extra power in my pedal stroke. (There are no cleats installed on the shoes, so I just use 'em with my regular pedals & half-clips.)

[tandemrider48]

Good Morning All...

I am a newbie to TE as well.......

Looking for advice on what others do, when their feet become sore and numb, especially on long rides.

My husband and I ride a tandem, will be riding in the MS 150 from Houston to Austin this coming weekend.

I have changed shoes, have watched my form, but, still have some distances my feet will become painfully numb.

Any suggestions?

Gina in Houston

[pinkbikes]

Hi tandemrider48

I have two pairs of road shoes and three pairs of mtb shoes (yes - so help me I do identify with Imelda Marcos - but mtb shoes get dirty and I need at least one pair I can keep clean to wear to work/touring...).

The road shoes (Shimano and an old pair of Adidas Eddy Merckx) rarely give me any trouble, and if I do get a little numbness on a long ride, a quick wriggle of the toes seems to sort that out.

The mtb shoes I regularly wear to mtb (Shimano skate shoe sort of style and Wellgo racing style) are also great. I suspect that the fact that you are so mobile when you ride mtb means that there is less repetitive movement and more natural "wriggle" happening in the toes anyway, so there is less likelihood of numbness.

But the latest pair I bought to keep clean and wear to work for commuting between appointments (and the odd bit of touring on the tandem when I want to look presentable) are Exustar and a funny narrow fitting. They feel ok when I put them on but there is a pressure point under the outside of my right ball that starts to tingle and get numb - sometimes before I even get on the bike! I am starting to wonder if I crank them up too tight because they are lace-ups?

So maybe it is about the shoes? Also I have worn shoes that were not so rigid and found that the small platform of the SPDs did create a high pressure spot because the load was not spread so well. An inner sole helped a bit.

Try wearing the shoes a little looser (your feet will swell while you're out) and wriggle those toes a bit (especially if you've been grinding away in the same position for a long time). If that doesn't fix it then you may need to look at different shoes?

[hipmama]

alrighty, I got my new bike today! Pedals are SPD- so from what I gather, I can get pretty much any cycling shoe, and just have to have the SPD cleats put in, yes?

[pinkbikes]

Wahoo! Very exciting. Bet you can't wait to get out on that puppy!

If they are SPD pedals you can just get pretty much any shoe as long as they are drilled for a two bolt cleat. It may be best to take the SPD cleat with you when you go to buy them so you can check for sure that the holes line up, because sometimes you get a knucklehead of a shop assistant who just assumes they'll be ok and gives you that "yeah it'll be fine" thing with the airy wave. And then you get home it it isn't really fine!

An MTB shoe will probably be better just from the point of view that the SPD cleat recesses into the sole and does not usually protrude beyond the tread of the shoe. This makes it a bit more stable for walking in and it doesn't scratch your floor! Also if you end up getting SPD pedals for your tandem you will be able to wear them for touring on it too and still be able to walk around like a normal human at the end of the day (not like a duck)! I only take one pair of shoes when we tour - the MTB ones.

The only down side of an MTB shoe is that if you decided later that you wanted to go all hardcore roadie and buy a more roadie-style pedal and cleat system it is quite likely that the roadie cleat will be too large to fit on the MTB shoe. It' a one way thing.... plenty of roadie shoes will take SPD cleats but most SPD style shoes won't take roadie cleats (well the three bolt ones anyway)!

[tctrek]

Great! Let us know how you make out getting your shoes and getting the cleats on the shoes... that can be fun! +1 on recommending MTB shoes. You can walk in them.

[hipmama]

Yup, I'm all over the MTB shoes- must be able to walk around- double time for the tandem, all those times I have to walk the kiddo out to the right place to squat behind a tree and stand guard for her ;)
I can't wait, it's killing me! Going to go browsing tomorrow but am really hoping to pick up a used pair as money is going in many directions right now- oy!

[pinkbikes]

Yup, I'm all over the MTB shoes- must be able to walk around- double time for the tandem, all those times I have to walk the kiddo out to the right place to squat behind a tree and stand guard for her ;)


ROTFL!!:D:D

I can NOT get mine to squat behind a tree. I cannot the count the number of times since she was a wee thing that she has been "DESPERATE to GO MUM!!!" but it didn't really matter where or when, I have NEVER been able to convince her to go behind a tree. I'm sure she thinks something is going to crawl up and bite her behind!:eek: Maybe a bit of grass tickled her butt once or something?:D

[wildeny]

Hello, today I first road-tested it inside the campus. No fall. :D

I use MTB pedals (Exustar E-PM811) on the road bike. Already read many tips on the Internet (here & the road bike forum). I set the tension to the lowest and rode slowly to learn how to clip the other foot in after taking off. It's not really difficult at all.

The only problem I noticed is when I tried to practice in releasing my right foot first and stop, because I'm not used to leaning to the right for stopping and I am afraid of doing so. I ended up jumpping from the seat and standing on both feet. :o Well, I will have to practice to use my right foot for balance on my commute bike first. Just in case I need to do so.

[pinkbikes]

It's OK wildeny - you just have to move to Oz! I have a total mental blank about clipping out my right foot too!:eek:

This would be because I am a short person who cruises up to the kerb at the traffic lights, unclips my left foot (since we drive on the left hand side of the road) and plonks it unceremoniously upon the kerb until the light changes. Right foot remains resolutely clipped in.

It has never really caused me any trouble through the twenty-something years I have had clipless pedals because they don't look like they are changing the side of the road we drive on anytime soon!!:p

However, I have had to get my act together and educate my right foot since I started mountain biking. The convenient rock or high side of the track is not always nicely coordinated and sitting there on my left!:confused:

Well done on managing a first ride clipless without a gumby stack though! My DH says that if I look up the word "gumby" in the dictionary there are pictures of my two stacks in the MTB race the other week! He was behind me for both. Should I be suspicious?:rolleyes:

[txred9876]

It's OK wildeny - you just have to move to Oz! I have a total mental blank about clipping out my right foot too!



Its my left foot! I have just started using them and already fallen a few times. I just get back up like nothings wrong and move on...LOL

tina

[tctrek]

The only problem I noticed is when I tried to practice in releasing my right foot first and stop, because I'm not used to leaning to the right for stopping and I am afraid of doing so. I ended up jumpping from the seat and standing on both feet. :o Well, I will have to practice to use my right foot for balance on my commute bike first. Just in case I need to do so.

wildeny, I have found that unclipping left foot first works best for me. You can unclip it in advance of the stop. Try to unclip and just let your left leg hang down a little in front of the pedal, you are braking/coasting to the spot where you want to stop. Right foot is still clipped in and most likely in the down pedal position. When you are ready to stop, fully engage the brake and just put your left foot down to complete stop. Obviously, you have to leave the saddle to get your left foot all the way down on the road. Leave your right foot clipped if you are just stopping for a stop sign or some obstacle. Make sure to keep your brake engaged so you don't roll off with your right foot clipped... you are a one legged girl on a skateboard at that point! Bike is leaning a little to the left.

When you're ready to go, just lift your right foot to about 2 o'clock position, push off on your right and hoist yourself back into the saddle. Now you're rolling and can clip in your left foot again. I have found that I sometimes have to make one or two pedal strokes to get my darn left foot re-clipped. That's ok, cause your right foot can make slow revolutions while you get the left foot clipped again.

If you repeat this over an over an always do it exactly the same, eventually it becomes a habit and clipping in/out is natural.

You can do this fast as well, if you don't know in advance that you have to stop, you can quickly unclip left, apply full brake, hop down from saddle and plant your left foot leaving right foot clipped in.

I have seen people unclipping on the right and even unclipping both feet at once and hopping down and it looks incredibly difficult to me... maybe because I am now brainwashed to unclip on the left. Also, on the trainer or spinning bike, it's opposite for me, unclip on the right.. but I'm used to that as well.

[Michi1244]

Hi everyone,

I just started riding. I bought the cleats and pedals, but i am having a horrible time with the clips. would it be dumb to just go back to regular pedals?

[alpinerabbit]

Well, it depends.

If you intend to do serious distance, it would be dumb as you get better power, can last longer, and prevent muscular imbalance...

But if you need some more time to get comfortable with the bike per se, go back, but not for too long...

[wildeny]

Make sure to keep your brake engaged so you don't roll off with your right foot clipped... you are a one legged girl on a skateboard at that point! Bike is leaning a little to the left.

This point is really important. I had a clumsy stop because I didn't apply brake firmly enough. :o

Michi1244, what's your problem with clips? Everyone has his/her way of learning clipless pedals.

I didn't install my SPD pedals right after I bought them. I am a new roadie so I take some time to get use to a road bike first. I was also afraid of falling. But then I remember someone's saying, "it will all be mental." As long as one know how to cruse on bike. Just remember to clip out before roll into a stop.

I used the approach tctrek described, and test rode in a parking lot. After I took off, I looked ahead and tried to feel the side of my left pedal (mine is SPD on one side and regular on the other) while pedaling slowly. Sometimes it took few pedals to clip in my left feet, but that's all right. Just don't look down (you can have a quick glimpse though). And think you won't fall.

[tctrek]

This point is really important. I had a clumsy stop because I didn't apply brake firmly enough. :o
My most awful, embarrassing and painful experience was my first day with clipless pedals. I had been starting/stopping for about 25 miles without any trouble. Stopped at a beautiful creek to get a drink (I still can't get my bottle out and drink while riding). For some stupid reason I did not unclip my right foot. Grabbed my bottle and while drinking let go of the brake. I must have been leaning to the right a little and took off like a one-legged girl on a skateboard into the creek, bike and all. I slid down some rocks and ground my legs into hamburger meat on the way down. About 5-6 cyclists all standing there watched me fall in!!! I had water up to my knees, shoes full of creek mud, bleeding and still clipped in. They somehow hauled me out of the creek and offered me help with cleaning up my wounds. At that point I was still 10 miles from my car and had no choice but to get back on and ride.

That was a year ago and I haven't fallen since. Don't give up and brake, brake, brake!

[hipmama]

I'm clipped in!
Finally picked up my shoes, got the MTB shoes. So far just a couple of miles around my neighborhood- getting the feel before heading out into the high traffic road I need to use to get anywhere, but I think I did alright!
Clipping out seems easier on my right, which sucks because I need to keep clipped in there and slip in and out of left, but I loosened them up far as I could and will be practicing a lot!
Tomorrow night I'm meeting the guy I bought the bike from so he can show me how to replace part of the headset that is worn down. My goal is to ride to his house. It's only about 8-9 miles but I do need to navigate about 2 miles of city riding in that. hmmm.