One Reason Cyclists Are Disliked

[Aint Doody]

I was so appalled yesterday as I was on a loosely organized group ride in our small town. There were about 10 of us taking advantage of the marginally good weather. The group was in about 3 bunches. As I came up to a stop sign where we going to turn right, I was in the front of a group of about 4 of us. I signaled a stop and said, "Stopping." My friend who was behind me said, "Going," and just kept on ahead to turn right on the street--passing me on the right to do so.

There was a pickup truck approaching from the left who had the right of way. Everybody else stopped. This really upset me. I caught up with her and told her she should have stopped. She replied that she didn't always stop at stop signs. I then said that was one reason motorists don't like us. I also reminded her that it was the law. She finally said, "OK, I'll do it for you." I said, "Do it for yourself to keep from getting splatted and because it's the law. What if there had been loose gravel and you'd gone down right in front of that truck?"

She's a very responsible person--or at least I thought so. I was genuinely shocked by her reaction. She knows all the rules of the road, etiquette, whatever. OK--rant is over.

[Tri Girl]

I totally agree. I hate to do organized rides, because there are always those cyclists who refuse to obey the laws and ride unsafe :mad:
I have even stopped riding with a group of fellow triathletes because they do the same thing (and wear headphones, to boot). I'm no goody two shoes, but I do stop at all city intersections, and even in the country with nobody around for miles I'll do a very good rolling stop (sometimes I don't put a foot down, and I'm bad for that).
Doesn't that just infuriate you? No wonder we get a bad rap. Just like some drivers, some cyclists refuse to follow the rules, but when cyclists do it the reputation of all cyclists is harmed...:(
I'm glad your friend wasn't hurt...

[jobob]

I agree too.

I'm simply not comfortable in large groups of riders on account of that - my neck and shoulders get sore from cringing so much. :rolleyes:

And, there are people I avoid riding with on account of that.

[snapdragen]

I agree too. I'm simply not comfortable in large groups of riders on account of that. My neck and shoulders get sore from cringing so much.

And there are people I avoid riding with on account of that.

:DThere's also that whole having to ride really fast to catch up with boneheaded riders so you can rip them a new one. Or politely tell them the rules of the road..... :rolleyes: :)

[Trek420]

It's intervals, that's a good thing ;) Here's the latest Spinerval DVD: :rolleyes:

Ride safely, legally and well
Sprint to catch up and rip them a new one
Ride safely, legally and sanely
Sprint to catch up, yelling all the way
Ride safely, stop at stop signs and lights
Sprint to catch up with ditwads who blew the light ...

Ultimately you're a stronger rider than them. ;)

Seriously, these riders don't respect what I say if I can't catch them. Breezing in at the next rest stop or coffee to say "hey,back there you ..." does not count. I'm not fast or strong on hills. Once or twice I've been able to catch up, that gets their attention.

Otherwise it's just "yeah, whatever, I'm ahead of you" :(

[ilima]

:DThere's also that whole having to ride really fast to catch up with boneheaded riders so you can rip them a new one. Or politely tell them the rules of the road..... :rolleyes: :)

Naw, just pull the old 'drop them from behind' move.

I've learned which groups play fast and loose with safety, laws and plain old common sense. And I don't ride with them.

[Mr. Bloom]

You did well to model good behavior to her. Some folks know the rules,nut don't follow them until someone they respect calls attention to it

[tctrek]

We did a ride yesterday where several in front of us refused to give up the road to any cars trying to get by. They would not form a paceline and had a line of cars backed up for a quarter of a mile.

I think Share the Road goes for both the cars and the bicycles. No wonder the drivers of the car get angry :mad:.

[Crankin]

I so agree. I pretty much have stopped going on group rides, except for the ones I lead, or with leaders I know. Otherwise, I ride alone, with my dh, or just a few friends. I always say something when I observe bad cyclist behavior! It probably just makes me feel better, but, hey.

[ny biker]

It's not just group rides. I have a favorite training route that is good for long rides by myself, and is popular with many cyclists. I used to think that popularity was a good thing, because if I had a mechical problem there were lots of other folks around who might be able to help. But last year I was so angry at all the idiots around me who were blowing through stop signs and stoplights, that I've decided to find a different training route with fewer cyclists.

I try to tell myself that I shouldn't waste anger on other people, but the fact is that they do affect me because they're the reason so many drivers hate cyclists.

I'm especially appalled at the number of cyclists who don't even look for oncoming traffic at intersections.

I've also quit a local cycling forum because there were too many members who thought that they were too good to stop at stop signs and who felt that it was perfectly okay to be rude to the other users of the road just because those other people were driving cars and trucks.

If I'm on a group ride with people running stop signs and red lights, I just say, it's not worth dying over, and I stop. I don't care if I fall behind.

[Thorn]

If I'm on a group ride with people running stop signs and red lights, I just say, it's not worth dying over, and I stop. I don't care if I fall behind.

Yep.

We have a popular starting point that is in the suburbs. It is conveniently located with a nice park and an easy route out into the country side. Right outside of the park you need to cross a highway. There is a stoplight. The stoplight has a pedestrian "press here to trigger the light" *facing* the road, just for cyclists. I've been on group rides where no one paused to press the button--they just ran the light. DH and I stopped and nearly caused a pile up--the light was red, guys. We signaled we were stopping. What more information do you need?

[Pink Diva]

Man, that's just pain scary! I've only ridden on group rides where there was a 'no-drop' policy, but even then every single stop sign and red light was obeyed and every single car coming from in front of the group or behind was announced so we could fall into single file...man, I thought that was just the way you were supposed to ride in a group!

I say if you can't obey the rules and be nice to your fellow cyclists, then you should just stay away from the 'group'! Here's to living in a city where there are more stop signs then cars :D!

[maillotpois]

One of my best on bike moments this year came a month or two ago. I was meeting a friend and noticed a local race team in front of me. I figured I'd never see them again. Met up with my friend 5 - 8 miles into my ride, and we stopped briefly for a chat and kept going. We came up a series of 2 T-intersection stop signs that cyclists notoriously run - I noticed flashing lights ahead. It was a police car. My first reaction was gut wrenching concern that someone got hit or crashed or something. No. The entire race team, including a couple of friends of mine, were all pulled over for blowing the stop sign. :D They all got tickets. :D

So lovely. Especially the teasing afterward. ;)

[Aggie_Ama]

I feel if I am going to drive a car with a bumper sticker that says "Please be kind to cyclists" I better earn that treatment. Drivers think lawlessness is par for the course with cyclists and I view myself as a constant advocate for the right to be on the road. Do I stop completely at signs in the middle of nowhere country when I am turning right and you can't hear a thing but a cow? No. But I do slow to a rolling stop- no blowing through at 15-20mph. I stop and put a foot donw at any stop sign with traffic.

Sure unclipping gets tiring but it was all worth it the day I was at a 3-way intersection most cyclists run. Most chose not to stop because when headed north you have a shoulder and no cross street on your side. On this day, I unclipped for the red light and looked at the woman stopped next to me who smiled and mouthed "thanks". I remember that day from last summer everytime I ride.

Austin and the county have started ticketing. I live in a neighboring county and I wish my county would because I get irked watching my fellow cyclist anger drivers.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

We did a ride yesterday where several in front of us refused to give up the road to any cars trying to get by. They would not form a paceline and had a line of cars backed up for a quarter of a mile.

I think Share the Road goes for both the cars and the bicycles. No wonder the drivers of the car get angry :mad:.

Oh man, that is awful! No reason for that besides ego and selfishness. Consideration should go both ways.

[fidlfreek]

Ok. Everyone has made good points here but I am going to play devil's advocate.

I think you must treat a stop sign differently as a cyclist. In a car it is ALWAYS safer to stop. On a bike however I believe that your safety is always #1 and that means that you must analyze the situation and carefully consider whether or not to stop. If I am at a place where cross traffic doesn't stop I am more likely to slow and analyze the situation. If there is ample room I will roll right through. Otherwise I'm stuck starting, clipping in, with a small chance of having a catastrophically slower than usual crossing. I am causing LESS risk to myself and other drivers by being in full control and slowing and analyzing and then possibly going through. This IMHO is defensive driving which is what excellent cyclists must do.

[smilingcat]

I watched:


redondo beach police issue tickets to four guys who ran a stop sign.
Palos Verdes Police issue tickets to two guys who ran a stop sign.
Palos Verdes Police warning a guy for running a stop sign.
Torrance Police lay in wait for cylists to run a stop sign.


Here in California, it goes on your drivers license and I think the fine is around $180.00 I've got better things to spend my money.

I've also been thanked by police for coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. That 2 seconds I "waste" by stopping at a stop sign is far better than becoming a bug splat on the road.

Is it really worth taking a risk to save 2 seconds??

I have yet to ride with a squad who abide by the law.

----------

to Aint Doody,

You were in the lead and called out "stopping". Your friend following is totally in the wrong by calling out "going" ("rolling"). It doesn't matter if there was a stop sign or not. If a lead calls out "stopping", there probably is a very good reason for stopping. :mad:

[salsabike]

The safest possible thing an excellent cyclist can do is to be predictable to everyone else on the road. That means: stop at the stop signs.

[Trigress]

I recognise this from my group rides. We have a guy in our group who just will not be considerate or responsible. Every time we get to a junction or a roundabout most of us will wait if there are cars having the right of way, and then the peloton stops. However, he will then overtake us all, barge right into the roundabout or the junction, so that all the cars stop - mostly when we're riding as a team, the cars will be very cautious. I used to think this was because they want to be considerate, but having seen this guy I'm beginning to think that it's more due to their having seen this type of erratic behaviour... And the result of course is that as all the cars stop, we all feel that we should appreciate their stopping, but you all know how much time it takes to start a peloton, when all have to get back in balance, sort out pedals and so on...

[MyLitespeed]

Even when I ride by myself, if I see a motorist approaching a stop sign, I make sure that they see me stop, even if no one else is around. I want to make a positive impression on cars and not have them think that all cyclists don't obey the rules.

If there are no cars around, I will usually slow WAY down and then proceed through the intersection (only stop signs). I always stop at stop lights.

I have one friend I ride with who can be VERY unsafe when it comes to riding. I just don't want to be around when she eventually does get hurt. She doesn't like to be told what to do, so I just keep my mouth shut. Some people have to learn the hard way.

If there is a rider in front of me, signaling or telling me they are going to stop, I STOP. I figure they can see what's in front and have a darn good reason for stopping. I get to many close calls without disobeying the rules.

[Mr. Bloom]

Fidlfreek+1

I can think of several scenarios where a rolling stop is best... But, there are many more where a hard stop is a requirement.

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

[Crankin]

OK. Mr. S. I agree with your assessment of the 4 way stop... the same thing happens here with cars! No one seems to understand the person who arrives first goes first. It worked like clockwork in AZ, but I guess drivers in MA are so indecisive, they can't handle it. We actually have cars stop dead in the middle of main streets to let approaching cars from the side street turn onto the main street. They don't get you never just stop dead in the middle of the road that has the right of way.
I do come to rolling stops on country roads with few cars. I always unclip and could stop fully. Mostly I do. I ride a lot around areas with tourists (downtown Concord), kids, etc. I get in the lane and act as predictable as I can.
TC Trek, my husband has run into a similar situation as you describe. Every Friday there is a group of riders who assemble to ride at about 6:15 AM, in the lot by Walden Pond. They are obviously serious racers who are training. If my husband is driving, he has to blow his horn every time, as they absolutely will not get into a single file line to let a car pass. They give him the finger, etc. Now, this is on a narrow, heavily travelled road that is in terrible condition (pot holes). If it is a day my husband is riding, he usually goes by their route a bit after they have come through. He notices a distinct change in the behaviors of the drivers because they are pissed at group, see another cyclist and take it out on him.
This is all so upsetting. Police here are beginning to ticket, also. Last Wednesday, my dh got in an argument with a guy on our ride who was bragging about being ticketed in the neighboring town. He felt he should NEVER have to yield to cars, just because he has the right to be on the road. When I asked him about common courtesy, he sneered.

[Becky]

Fidlfreek+1

I can think of several scenarios where a rolling stop is best... But, there are many more where a hard stop is a requirement.

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

Agreed re: the rhythm thing. I have the same issue with being waved across by a driver when I'm signalling to make a left hand turn. If I was a car, you wouldn't stop to let me across. Waving, though done in good faith, is just plain confusing for both parties.

[Crankin]

Exactly. This is what drivers here do to cyclists and cars. They think they are being nice, but what they are doing is actually wrong and confuses people.

[Pink Diva]

I live in a county that has two major cities in its borders. One city has so many stop signs, if you live there you know how to handle intersections like that. This same city has golf cart paths going EVERYWHERE...the people living here are used to seeing joggers, cyclists, golf carts, and walkers so they know to watch for something other then cars. The other city has people that blow through stop signs, red lights, and those areas in parking lots where you know you should stop to see if a car's coming (I've almost gotten T-Boned in my car hundreds of times from people just breezing through w/o looking). If you ride a bike here, you're going to get shoved to the side...not a very bike-friendly city, but there is a very limited amount of sidewalks or areas that even have a wide enough road to cycle with the cars without them having any choice but to get too close to you. Can you tell where I ride :p?

Anyhow, after years of driving in the one city with scary drivers, I've been taught to stop or do a rolling stop at every single intersection while I'm cycling to save myself from a dangerous situation since my favorite ride goes through both city's back roads. I would NEVER blow through an intersection regardless of where I'm at since I seem to have the luck that if there's a car anywhere in the area that I'm cycling even if they are miles away, they will be meeting me at that intersection without a doubt!

LOVE the story about the entire team getting a ticket! Bwa ha ha!!!

[OakLeaf]

My frustration comes at a four way stop, where I've stopped and the car waves me through. I expect to follow the rules and this totally breaks my rhythm

I hate to do it, but when a car with the ROW tries to wave me through, I will put my foot down and remain stopped until the car goes through, no matter how long it takes. If their window's down I may even say "You have the ROW."

To me, it's just like passing on the right when I'm in my car. I don't really expect left-lane bandits to learn any good habits from my refusing to pass them on the right, but playing along with their bad habits will DEFINITELY reinforce them.

These people don't understand how dangerous their behavior is to us (and to a lesser extent, puts themselves in danger of being rear-ended). If we refuse to play along with it, MAYBE they'll think a little harder.

[OakLeaf]

I think you must treat a stop sign differently as a cyclist. In a car it is ALWAYS safer to stop. On a bike however I believe that your safety is always #1 and that means that you must analyze the situation and carefully consider whether or not to stop. If I am at a place where cross traffic doesn't stop I am more likely to slow and analyze the situation. If there is ample room I will roll right through. Otherwise I'm stuck starting, clipping in, with a small chance of having a catastrophically slower than usual crossing. I am causing LESS risk to myself and other drivers by being in full control and slowing and analyzing and then possibly going through. This IMHO is defensive driving which is what excellent cyclists must do.

+1. I always make sure that (1) I'm ABLE to put my foot down quickly when cross traffic has the ROW, and (2) I'm proceeding slowly enough and with enough visibility that I'll know WHEN and IF I may need to come to a complete standing stop.

But I agree 100% that a complete standing stop is not always the safest thing for a two-wheeled vehicle (motorized or non), even though it may be the legally required thing. Every intersection and every set of traffic conditions has to be analyzed individually; blindly stopping at every stop sign is not automatically safer, any more than blindly blowing every stop sign. IMHO.

[Aiacha]

I was actually shocked by this on one charity ride. We had come up on a light at a potentially busy intersection, near the end of the ride. There were probably 5 ot 6 of us stopped and waiting for the green light, when two others just zoomed right by us and went through the red light. (I say zoomed because we were standing still; we caught up to them quickly and, if I remember right, my friend gave them an ear-full) Up to that point I had never seen someone just out and out run a red light unescorted.

I'm guilty of taking rolling stops through rural stop signs, but not before I look and check to see that I'm not about to get squished like a bug. I would never dream of running a red light.

[OakLeaf]

I would never dream of running a red light.

Do you have a steel frame? Where you ride, are the lights triggered by optical sensors, or the older magnetic induction loops? On a bicycle, particularly a non-steel frame (and even some motorcycles) you may not be able to trigger a light. In busier areas there may be a pedestrian crosswalk button that you can dismount and push. That carries its own set of risks - but at a lot of intersections, there's no button.

Most of the places I ride, the induction loops are slowly being phased out, and I am SO loving the optical sensors! But at many intersections, a cyclist may have no choice but to either run the light, or to do a right turn on red and then a U-turn which may be quite a bit more dangerous.

[Eden]

You want to have the roads open get yourself a racing license and stay between the cars.... but seriously, I don't blow stop signs or red lights. Not only does it give drivers a really bad impression (though undeserved.... many, many more cars roll stop signs than bikes.... people just don't take notice of it), it can be downright dangerous.

When we ride as a team we will at times slowly roll a stop sign - if we all stopped as individuals we'd be forever getting through.... and cars would be even less appreciative of all the time it takes than if we go through as a group, but not blow through, that's just plain dangerous and we'd never, ever roll a red light.

As far as people waving me on.... I tend to pretend I don't see them... It's dangerous - they only think of their own little world - look how nice I'm being- and forget about traffic coming in the other direction or coming around them from behind (lots of people, especially when its a 4 lane street will blow right by a stopped car without ever looking - its a real danger for pedestrians and bikes if you take that offer). I don't know how many times I'd have been hit if I'd taken someone's friendly wave.... They are putting themselves at risk of being rear ended too.

[beccaB]

I'm guilty of taking rolling stops through rural stop signs, but not before I look and check to see that I'm not about to get squished like a bug. I would never dream of running a red light.



My sentiments exactly.

I attended a school bus driver training class where we learned about the proper use of traffic roundabouts. In the video it was mentioned that most people who ride bicycles should use the crosswalks (walking the bike across) and only EXPERIENCED riders should ride in the roundabout. In my experience it's the "experienced" rider that thinks they are invincible and not subject to the rules of the road. That is not a blanket statement, but an observation of what I've witnessed. My co-workers commented on how I rolled my eyes when the presenter talked about experienced riders.

[HoosierGiant]

Cycling on the roadways, as with driving a motor vehicle, is a privilege not a right. As such, there are certain rules and regulations in force that we are expected to obey. In Indiana (and probably every other state as well) the legislative code considers a bicycle to be a vehicle subject to the "rules of the road" -- no exceptions. I wouldn't dream of disregarding a stop sign in my vehicle; I won't do it on my bike.

I live in the country, and when the corn's down there are scads of seldom-traveled intersections with visibility of 1/2 mile or more. Do I stop? Yes. Foot down? No. My thinking is this -- you never know who might be looking out a nearby window, etc. An impressionable teen who thinks, "Hhhhhmmm... pushing the envelope... everyone does it..." A seen-it-all grandfather who thinks, "Those pesky cyclists... think they own the road..." As you can tell, I come from the black-is-black-and-white-is-white school of ethics -- not many shades of grey here. :)

That being said, we don't ride under the types of traffic conditions some of you encounter. We rarely have to navigate stop lights, and when we do they are on a simple timer system, so no worries about triggering a green, etc. Didn't mean to sound preachy; I respect all of you ladies who brave the roads in search of a cycling fix!

[OakLeaf]

Do I stop? Yes. Foot down? No. My thinking is this -- you never know who might be looking out a nearby window, etc.

Meh.

Personally I can't do a track stand and I have the utmost admiration for people who can, especially without a fixie.

But. If you're not talking about track stands, a momentary pause without loss of forward momentum isn't a "stop." It's a "rolling stop." And, I don't think that a track stand is any safer than a rolling stop. (Maybe even a little less safe, since I think it's pretty difficult to trackstand with one foot unclipped? But since I can't do one at all, I wouldn't know. :rolleyes:)

Plus, 99% of onlookers, whether they be impressionable kids or traffic cops behind the billboard, will not recognize a track stand as such, but will think that you did a rolling stop. So if your main concern is with who's looking and not with your own safety, put your foot down. (On the moto, I usually drag a toe through a rolling stop in case that cop's watching. On the bici, not so easily done.)

[wackyjacky1]

Tricky subject. I will confess to rolling through stop signs quite frequently, but only after I've slowed down and determined that I have a clear line of sight and there are no cars coming. If I see a car, even if it's pretty far away, I will stop. If I can't see down the road in both directions, I will stop. I don't run red lights.

[OakLeaf]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?


I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

[smilingcat]

In some jurisdiction, a definition for a complete stop for a bicycle is foot down on the pavement. Track stand, no matter how long, is not considered to have come to a complete stop.

A guy in SD got a ticket for just that reason. Track stand, foot never touched the ground and got a ticket. Took it to court, and brought a track rider with a bicycle for a demo. The guy who got the ticket was so so on track stand but the track rider could stay put for h---o---u--rs. While the said guy was arguing for a dismissal, the track rider was track standing the whole time in front of a judge. Ticket was dismissed. The intent of the law was come to a complete stop and the judge clearly saw that the intent of the law was fulfilled. :)

A good day. :D :D

I don't take a chance. I put my foot down. There is a judge around where I live who HATES cyclists, his prejudice will not allow him to be impartial and no matter how I argue, I'll end up in the pokey. It just isn't worth it.

Slightly on a different note, Years ago when I was tad bit faster, I regularly had my "picture" taken by radar gun :D :D. Wasn't quite fast enough to earn a speeding ticket. Now that would be one ticket I would have been proud! :D :D

[Jolt]

One of my best on bike moments this year came a month or two ago. I was meeting a friend and noticed a local race team in front of me. I figured I'd never see them again. Met up with my friend 5 - 8 miles into my ride, and we stopped briefly for a chat and kept going. We came up a series of 2 T-intersection stop signs that cyclists notoriously run - I noticed flashing lights ahead. It was a police car. My first reaction was gut wrenching concern that someone got hit or crashed or something. No. The entire race team, including a couple of friends of mine, were all pulled over for blowing the stop sign. :D They all got tickets. :D

So lovely. Especially the teasing afterward. ;)

That is hilarious!

[salsabike]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?


I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

Actually, the OP and the first few posts after that were all about blowing stop signs and red lights. That's what I thought we were talking about. Here, I've been told by cops---although I bet they don't all see it the same way--that they don't insist on anyone putting a foot down as long as we slow down enough to make it clear we intend to give right of way to whichever car or bike or pedestrian is supposed to have it. It's the four-way stop thing---do we act predictably there? We slow down enough to give others the right of way, in such a way that they can tell we intend to do that. I think that's what people get concerned about, not whether there's a rolling stop with no momentum vs. a foot down.

And if there are no cars in sight, we will do a rolling stop and keep going.

[wackyjacky1]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?
I guess I'm fortunate in that I've never had to deal with that situation. But I think if I were stuck at an unchanging red light, I would make sure there's no traffic coming, and then proceed.

[Thorn]

I have to ask - those of you who categorically state you will not go through a red light - what do you do when the light won't change and there's no pedestrian button?


I legally (in Wisconsin) proceed after counting to 45 yielding to traffic in the intersection



I don't think anyone here is advocating BLOWING a stoplight or stop sign. We've all seen people do it and most of us have done it at one time or another, but it's pretty much impossible to justify.

In this thread, we're talking about rolling stops with zero forward velocity, and/or going through a red light after a complete foot-down stop. Either of those is completely different from just ignoring the traffic signal.

Yep...interesting the thread started with blantant disregard of traffic signals, but has turned into an argument of rolling. These are the same arguments for/against the Idaho stop -- rolling stop signs and stop and proceed at red lights.

People get all charged up because they don't differentiate between the blantant disregard of signals (we can probably all agree is wrong) and the respect of a slow roll through a stop that yields to traffic that has the ROW (something that most of us do whether we admit it or not).

[Crankin]

Oakleaf, I was faced with blatant disregard of red lights on my old commute. It was 6:15 AM, so not a lot of traffic. The first situation required stopping at a residential street that crosses a busy state highway. There is also a left turn arrow, for traffic on the highway. There's a detector thing, but it doesn't get triggered by my bike. I would wait for another car to come, but the first time, I didn't make it across the highway before the light turned yellow. So, from then on, I started across when I saw the traffic on the highway get the yellow and I clearly saw no cars coming. The second one is a T intersection that's on a little uphill, where I had to turn left. I have trouble navigating these for whatever reasons. Again, my bike doesn't trigger the sensor, but there was more traffic here. If no cars were coming, I went through the red. Sometimes my boss would pass me on her way to work, but thankfully, she never saw this...
I would never blatantly blow a light or stop sign. I have seen this plenty of times. Once my dh did it and I told him I would never ride with him again! It worked.

[Aint Doody]

Going back to my OP--If you were right behind me along with 2 others in single file, would you pass me ON THE RIGHT after I have signaled a stop and yelled, "Stopping"? Remember--there was a truck approaching from the left. Her husband told me this morning that she told him I was mad at her. Maybe I am, but it's because she potentially gave the entire group a black eye. More like I'm annoyed with her decision.

[katluvr]

Going back to my OP--If you were right behind me along with 2 others in single file, would you pass me ON THE RIGHT after I have signaled a stop and yelled, "Stopping"? Remember--there was a truck approaching from the left. Her husband told me this morning that she told him I was mad at her. Maybe I am, but it's because she potentially gave the entire group a black eye. More like I'm annoyed with her decision.

You are right...you were in front and communicated the stopping.
I agree w/ almost everything said in this thread. I avoid a lot of groups d/t the blowing thru. I also think there is a diff between ignoring lights/stop signs and the slowing down or "rolling stop".
I gues this is how I handle it:
Stop signs = rolling stop at times.
Traffic lights = stopping but w/some exceptions...early morning when the light DOES not or WILL not change and I can truly assess the situation. We have a small downtime w/ lots of one way streets...fairly easy to assess.
Does this equal "obeying" traffic laws? Proably not, no more than pedestrians that WALK with the Do Not Walk sign flashing or don't cross at corners/intersctions/cross walks.

But I do try and do think I am safe. Safer than most.

[Aint Doody]

I agree with Katluvr's actions. That's what I do, too. (And I jay-walk!)

[katluvr]

I agree with Katluvr's actions. That's what I do, too. (And I jay-walk!)

Jay-walking OMG!:eek:
I am sure you slow down and assess the situation fully!;)

I think we all agree here it is that blatant disregard for traffic signs/signals that the problem AND DOES give all of us a bad reputation!

[OakLeaf]

I think we all agree here it is that blatant disregard for traffic signs/signals that the problem AND DOES give all of us a bad reputation!

Yep.

[Aint Doody]

Double Yep.

[Geonz]

ah, the old stop sign debate...

but back to the original post, yes, the dangerous blatant disregard that happens scares me and helps me appreciate driver hostility... and, frankly, is one reason I often don't dress like a racer. (I figure the resistance of my sweats vs. tights gets me in better condition...) Our paceliners are reasonably compliant, too, I'm happy to say - it does help that we have many miles of truly open road.

I obey the spirit of the law... and when in doubt, I obey the law. Stopping at a four-way stop in the middle of the prairie when I can see for two miles in all directions means I've surrendered my thought processes to the signage. I'm much more cautious at the totally unmarked intersections, when the corn's up...

[crazycanuck]

I'm too chicken to go through a stop sign after about 630am :o. If it's 530 am or so, í'll just do a rolling peek & go through. This all depends on the road of course!!

Traffic lights..I aim to set myself on the line where the sensors are. I wasn't aware of this until someone mentioned that if you place yourself on the cracked lines at the lights, green light!

Since I normally ride on my own, I am not about to make a fool of myself!

Another thing that irritates me is cyclists with no rear lights.

While i'm here, i have another complaint. I am frustrated with VERY bright blinky front lights...Geez, if you're cycling along a path towards or behind other cyclists, can you turn them to normal mode? OW..it hurts me eyes & don''t appreciate it at 6am. (as a motorist as well..)

C

[Aiacha]

Do you have a steel frame? Where you ride, are the lights triggered by optical sensors, or the older magnetic induction loops? On a bicycle, particularly a non-steel frame (and even some motorcycles) you may not be able to trigger a light. In busier areas there may be a pedestrian crosswalk button that you can dismount and push. That carries its own set of risks - but at a lot of intersections, there's no button.

Most of the places I ride, the induction loops are slowly being phased out, and I am SO loving the optical sensors! But at many intersections, a cyclist may have no choice but to either run the light, or to do a right turn on red and then a U-turn which may be quite a bit more dangerous.

Most of the time, there is traffic where I'm riding. Sometimes a cycle of lights passes me by, but a car comes up shortly and I move along. If I just can't catch the light, I'll walk it across. If there is an area without a lot of traffic, it probably doesn't have a light, just a 4-way stop.

Heh. It's funny you mention this. On the self-same ride, near the beginning, the ride passes through a couple lights. There was no officer at the lights, like there usually is on a large organized ride. We never got the light, probably through 2 or three cycles, so we just started piling up. It was almost ridiculous.

[Mr. Bloom]

I think we all agree here it is that blatant disregard for traffic signs/signals that the problem AND DOES give all of us a bad reputation!

...and so does spandex:p

Oops, was that a hi-jack?

[Brandi]

I used to ride with my best friend. But I swear she was going to kill me or get me killled! She is not that great of a rider in the first place but I thought if she was with me she would get out more etc...but she was bringing me down. And the whole not watching what she was doing and so on i just couldn't take the stress of it anymore. Actually after we did a mountain bike trip with her...that was pretty much it. The trip was awful for her cause she wasn't prepared and almost ruined it for the rest of us. She again almost got herself killed. bad part is her Doc said she can only ride her bike now cause she has a bad hip problem. Hope she doesn't call me to ride. I love her but....

[alpinerabbit]

Last year I went for a test ride with a couple tri buddies. They can't ride in even a loose paceline (not that I can ride a tight one). Squirreling left and right (specially in aero), into traffic, no signalling, unpredictable moves, and they missed pointing a piece of wood on the road, in fact they just rode a hair's width next to it and I ended up riding almost over it - I nearly wiped out and was soooo pished off. I won't ride behind them anymore. Ever.

[kenyonchris]

I'm a bike cop...and I bike off duty. On duty, I ride 12 hour shifts. I have given cyclists tickets for running stop signs (primarily). The law (for Texas anyhow) says that a bike is a vehicle, and as such subject to the laws of the road, just as one in a car would be. I have worked plenty of car v. bike accidents, seldom are they pretty.

I was driving one day (off duty but as I was coming from the range I was wearing plain clothes but had my weapon holstered and my badge on my jeans waistband} when I passed a guy on a bike. He was in the middle of the road, cruising around a set of curves. I waited until I could see around him, then passed him, giving him plenty of room....but he WAS riding to the center of the two lane road, I guess because it was more level there. I stopped at the light about 1/8 mile up and was startled when he pounded on my window. As I was armed and curious , I rolled my window down to see what he wanted (a little conversation? after all, the bike rack, specialized sticker, etc. should clue him in that I am a cyclist) only to have him start yelling at me about passing him at all. I gave him the blank cop stare until he was done (the light had cycled through...no one there but us so we didn't block traffic), calmly pulled my badge off my waistband and showed it to him (which also exposed my weapon) and explained to him exactly the rules of the road involving bicycles. He shut up at that point.

People are rude when they operate a vehicle...bike or otherwise. I theorize that it the anonymity of dealing with people you will probably never see again. The bike generally loses road rage cases...

As to iPods. Just like radios in a car, they are a distraction. On duty, I bike, of course, with my radio. The earpiece lets me hear as opposed to tilting my head to listen to the handset so if dispatch is looking for me to respond to a call I can hear. Off duty I have to admit to cycling with the ipod. I listen one-ear style and keep it low. I am aware that I have to be aware. Anything can be used unsafely...ipods are one of many distractions.