What should I look for when I look at a frame?

[Ana]

I found a frameset (yes, frame and fork only) on craigslist that I am going to look at this weekend (3/21 or 3/22). I am inexperienced in technical biking topics, although I am trying to gain knowledge all the time :)

Any specific things I should look for? Is it a good brand? What do you think I could expect from the built-up frame?

Here are the details:

De Bernardi 47cm (490mm c-c)
Lugged Steel
for 700c wheels
Head tube: 71
Seat tube angle: 74
Stand over on 700c wheels: 28.6 inches
Seat tube diameter: 26.8 inches (which is what makes me think it's old)
some cosmetic scratches and scrapes

I think the person who is selling it has a pretty good grasp on technical aspects of bikes, as he was going to build it up for his wife but she decided not to ride anymore. He sent me lots of pretty pictures and the inside is clean but unprotected (ah, frame saver, frame saver!). He bought it at a swap meet 6 years ago and has been stored inside (heated-oooOOooo) :)

Should I take it to a local dealer to have them take a look at it? The seller is traveling about an hour round trip to show me the frame (I am covering his gas cost unless I purchase the frame) and I feel unprepared to make an on-the-spot decision. It would be completely different if the frame was built up and I could take a spin on it but...alas, no such luck :p

I'm hoping to have it built up and possibly replace my current aluminum frame.

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Thank you for sharing your wisdom :)

[VeloVT]

How does the geometry compare with your current fit? Do you feel confident that it would fit? Can it be built up with wheels & bars so you can at least stand over it and have an idea? Do you feel comfortable with the cost of the bike, given the fact that you may be taking a risk on fit? Have you priced out what it would cost to build it up with the level of components that you want?

[smilingcat]

I think you should have someone who is pretty knowledgeable about frames before you purchase one. And someone other than the seller. There are little details that can turn into big headaches.

head tube diameter
seat tube diameter
ohhh has the steer tube been cut?
braze-on or clamp-on for the front deraillure

first three can become a major pain...

And start figuring out your component cost: brakes, deraillures, cranks, cassettes, chainring, pedals, brifters, cable guides, cables, wheels, rim strip, tube, tire, head set, stem, handle bar, tape, seat post, seat... did I get it all? and assembly costs by LBS.

It can be fun to build your own but I've done it enuf times. mehh :|

[smurfalicious]

Most materials fatigue with use and age. Since you didn't mention the year it's a tough call. My beloved Candy Girl, hate to say it, is at that point in her chromoly career that she's a bit, squishy. I can stand up in the saddle and I swear her bottom bracket hits the ground and rebounds. Poor old girl.

So that is a consideration, but the other thing is building up this new frame. Building is expensive. I work in the industry and seriously spent an entire night CRYING because the bike I wanted was going to cost anywhere from $1000-1500 more than buying similarly equipped, but not as nice frame wise bikes (and damnit I wanted that bike, and I wanted to name him Kermit). All the deals and discounts in the world could not make building practical.

Even if you plan to strip and old bike and rebuild the new frame with those components, if you can't do it yourself figure on at least $100-$150 each direction, tear down and rebuild.

Then that leaves you used, older, Al frame. Can you get enough out of that to demo it in the name of the new frame?

Now then, all these reasons not to do it aside, I think it depends on what you want from it. If you're going to ride the daylights out of it, I don't think this is a great idea. If you just want lugged hotness in your stable for now and again well maybe this would do, but you're also tearing apart a workhorse to make a Sunday driver.

My other concern is why did he tear this bike back apart? Selling components can be fairly profitable sure, but what a pain to tear it apart and sell it piecemeal.

I'm going to revert back to my experience in the horse world here. If someone relatively inexperienced told me they were going to try and buy a foal and train it themselves I would advise against it. Newbies belong on solid 10 year olds that still have spunk, but stop being stupid a few years back.

The risk here is too great in my book. You're buying something you can't ride and worse, at least as I understand, tearing down a bike you might decide to put back together.

I *heart* steel to no end and I think if you dig it go for it, but this isn't the best route for you at this time in your cycling career. I know you had mentioned previously you wanted steel. I'd say check out Masi and believe it or not Raleigh this year. Both are turning out some ADORABLE steel bikes of late. I'm torn between keeping Candy Girl and getting a Masi Soulville. Mmmmm those are hot.

[Miranda]

Hey Ana :) Sorry if I missed the post but did you get you professional fit? If you did, then you know wheather or not if the frame geometry is right for you.

I just went after a frameset on Ebay this way (knowing it was the size and brand I had test ridden and worked). Unfortunately, my Ebay ploys seem to always end up getting cut throat outbid at the last minute. However, I think it might not have been meant to be for one thing you are asking. I sent the seller a question if the carbon had been mechanically inspected for cracks/damage etc. No response. Hmm.

With that being said, I don't think it is unreasonable for you to tell the seller you would like some type of inspection (done by person/mechanic of your choice) before you hand over your cash.

If you have the year of the frameset, do as much Googling as you can about it. Besides reviews, look at things like TE and BikeForums for peeps who have it. What are their joys? What are their complaints?

On the condition, I don't know if you have bike pals that could look at the condition of it for you when the guy brings it?

If you have an idea roughly of what Grouppo you want, you can also Google "brand whatever and build kit". Some web sites will have the whole deal new laid out so you can get a ballpark of what it would be to do new. If you were to switch over grouppo from your current bike, will everything fit? You could ask the lbs if you plan to have them do the build of what they think too.

Ana, have you ever ridden steele before? Even if the bike is not your size, but close enough to ride, try to find one. I know it's really hard. I have been road tripping to find bikes. That's the only way I even felt ok about bidding on the one on Ebay. I looked 5hr radius on Craigs list too, but to no avail for me.

Good Luck!

[Ana]

How does the geometry compare with your current fit?

The geometry is more aggressive, I'm pretty sure. The top tube is a bit shorter but everything else looks similar.


Do you feel confident that it would fit?

No, not really....I was being hopeful... :p :(


HCan it be built up with wheels & bars so you can at least stand over it and have an idea?

I was going to call and ask the bike store down the street about that if I was seriously interested. I already called them earlier this week to test ride some steel frames :D They said they would have a Fuji in my size built up soon to ride :D I'm excited :)



HDo you feel comfortable with the cost of the bike, given the fact that you may be taking a risk on fit?

Thank you for bringing me back to reality ;) I am realizing that I do not feel comfortable risking the fit for the cost. The seller is only asking $150 for the frame but I think that I would prefer to pay more and be guaranteed that the frame fits me (either get a fitting and buy stock or get a custom) :)


Have you priced out what it would cost to build it up with the level of components that you want?

I ball-parked it when I found the listing...but for what it would cost (after browsing the internet sites for price comparisons), I think I might be better off buying new or at least entire-bike used.


There are little details that can turn into big headaches.

head tube diameter
seat tube diameter
ohhh has the steer tube been cut?
braze-on or clamp-on for the front deraillure

first three can become a major pain...

And start figuring out your component cost: brakes, deraillures, cranks, cassettes, chainring, pedals, brifters, cable guides, cables, wheels, rim strip, tube, tire, head set, stem, handle bar, tape, seat post, seat... did I get it all? and assembly costs by LBS.


Yeah, the seat tube is 26.8....:(


Most materials fatigue with use and age. Since you didn't mention the year it's a tough call. My beloved Candy Girl, hate to say it, is at that point in her chromoly career that she's a bit, squishy. I can stand up in the saddle and I swear her bottom bracket hits the ground and rebounds. Poor old girl.


I asked about the age but he didn't address that issue. He just said he bought it 6 years ago.... The seat tube is also 26.8 which makes me think it's at least 10 years old.


So that is a consideration, but the other thing is building up this new frame. Building is expensive. I work in the industry and seriously spent an entire night CRYING because the bike I wanted was going to cost anywhere from $1000-1500 more than buying similarly equipped, but not as nice frame wise bikes (and damnit I wanted that bike, and I wanted to name him Kermit). All the deals and discounts in the world could not make building practical.

Even if you plan to strip and old bike and rebuild the new frame with those components, if you can't do it yourself figure on at least $100-$150 each direction, tear down and rebuild.


Oh, it's so true! Additionally, I would not be building it myself (although I would love to have a bike project some day....:D) so that would be extra labor charges by someone else.


Then that leaves you used, older, Al frame. Can you get enough out of that to demo it in the name of the new frame?


Probably not but I'm not worrying about that right now ;)


Now then, all these reasons not to do it aside, I think it depends on what you want from it. If you're going to ride the daylights out of it, I don't think this is a great idea. If you just want lugged hotness in your stable for now and again well maybe this would do, but you're also tearing apart a workhorse to make a Sunday driver.


Yes, it was my plan to ride it a lot if I liked it.... :(


My other concern is why did he tear this bike back apart? Selling components can be fairly profitable sure, but what a pain to tear it apart and sell it piecemeal.


My impression was that he never built it up...but I am unsure now.

* * * * * * * *

Thanks for all your input! :) You guys are awesome and brought up all the considerations that did not occur to me :) Thank you for keeping me grounded and forcing me to come to terms with my hopefulness and idealism ;)

I think I've decided to forgo this frame and look at a new frame, that will fit me :) It will probably cost a bit more (but maybe not) and take more time but then I know I would love it :)

[DebW]

Seatpost size of 26.8 indicates that the frame is probably not one of the lighter steel framesets around. 27.2 seatpost size is used on the better, thinner steel framesets (this was true from at least the 1970s til present). This frame might be fine for you, but it's weight might be on the heavy side - ask or weigh it if you can. Also, it may be a somewhat stiff frame - it may not have butted tubes (tubes that are thinner in the middle than the ends). So much information conveyed by seatpost size on a steel frame...

[Ana]

Seatpost size of 26.8 indicates that the frame is probably not one of the lighter steel framesets around. 27.2 seatpost size is used on the better, thinner steel framesets (this was true from at least the 1970s til present). This frame might be fine for you, but it's weight might be on the heavy side - ask or weigh it if you can. Also, it may be a somewhat stiff frame - it may not have butted tubes (tubes that are thinner in the middle than the ends). So much information conveyed by seatpost size on a steel frame...

He said the frameset weighs in at about 5 pounds which seems heavy to me :p The again, I love that my aluminum setup weighs like 15 pounds :)

[Blueberry]

That seems really heavy to me - a 56 cm cross check frame is 4.88 lbs, and the fork is 2.19. The frame you're looking at is much smaller. And a Surly cross check frame would not be considered by many to be anywhere approaching light (though they are nice, and I ride one).

I'd ask the shop that has the Fuji if they can order a Surly frame - the pacer would be a nice bike for you to consider. They should be able to figure out for sure whether it would work for you before ordering it. They may also be able to get a SOMA Smoothie - also a nice (actually nicer tubing, and not much more $$) steel road frame. Both are sold through at least of the major bike supply companies that lots of shops order from.

Good luck!

CA

[aicabsolut]

Yeah, wow, that is probably 2x heavier than my frame.

I think you need to know more about bikes and bike building before you jump on a frameset purchase like this. You said the TT is shorter. Do you know if that will fit you? Those are also pretty steep angles, which I guess is pretty common in a frame of that size, but, again, do you know if it will fit you?

Build kits can be very expensive. It's almost always cheaper to buy a complete bike. I just built up a new frame, but I saved money in that the frameset was less than 1/2 MSRP due to a crash replacement price, and I got the build kit at near cost through a team sponsorship with the LBS. There are ways to get some discounts on the build, but it's definitely something you need to think about in terms of affordability, even though this frame is so cheap.

[Cataboo]

If you're still going to try the frame out - take the wheels off your bike and at least put it on the frame and check the standover. It sounds like the seatpost is not going to be something you can swap on easily.

I don't know if you have something that you can set in there as a stem (whether it's threaded) and see whether the top tube seems like it'd work for you.

The time I bought a frame & fork only off craigslist - I made sure to bring a seatpost, wheels, and a stem & handlebar that I could stick on the frame quickly & at least tell that I thought it would fit or not. I'd looked at the geometry enough to know that the seattube was the same as what I'd been riding, but the top tube was a bit longer. I also had my old bike with me so I could hold the frames up to each other.

But $150 sounds kinda expensive for that frame & fork. I paid less for the used surly pacer frame & fork that I bought on the for sale section on here.

[Ana]

I'd ask the shop that has the Fuji if they can order a Surly frame - the pacer would be a nice bike for you to consider. They should be able to figure out for sure whether it would work for you before ordering it. They may also be able to get a SOMA Smoothie - also a nice (actually nicer tubing, and not much more $$) steel road frame. Both are sold through at least of the major bike supply companies that lots of shops order from.


I'm hoping to get a frame made in the USA :) Originally I was thinking maybe saving up for a lifetime titanium frame but when I called the bike store near my house, the guy was a steel-lover so he might try and convince me to get steel ;) :D

At that time, they did not have anything in/built up that would fit me but told me the Fuji should be coming in soon :) I'm excited :)


But $150 sounds kinda expensive for that frame & fork. I paid less for the used surly pacer frame & fork that I bought on the for sale section on here.

Yeah, I responded and told him that it would probably be best for me to get fitted by a knowledgeable bike shop for a built up bike :) That way, I know for sure that it will fit me (and that it's not old, and not have a weird seatpost size, etc...) :)