Fabris softener!

[Brandi]

My husband just read that fabric softener's are made of Horse tallow! Ewwwwwwww! that grosses me out! I think I might have to stop using it? I don't need my towels to be softened by an animal. Yuck!

[Blueberry]

Looks like it's mostly the liquid ones? And there are plenty of vegan options out there - check your local health food store:)

CA

[alpinerabbit]

Well, you can also go for synthetic ingredients.
These are petrol based. Petrol is dead dinosaurs. Go figure.

Your horse tallow will have been purified, distilled, and transfigured so that there's no dead stuff in there...

Do you use lipstick? can you say lice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal)?

And you do wear leather shoes, don't you? I'm just saying... not trying to make fun of ya.

[sfa]

You can always use vinegar in the rinse cycle instead. It works fairly well as a fabric softener. Of course, it's made from rotted fruits and grains.

Sarah

[sgtiger]

If that grosses you out, I recommend you not eat jello and anything that contains gelatin.

[Karma007]

Ew! I'm already a non-gelatin eater. I was not aware of this fabric softener issue. I'm off to check labels...

[HoosierGiant]

If that grosses you out, I recommend you not eat jello and anything that contains gelatin.

Jell-O, most marshmallows, frosted Pop-tarts, most brands of yogurt, Gummi-worms, most brands of jelly beans, conversation hearts for Valentine's Day... the list goes on and on. (Can't you tell we love our sweets?!) Youngest daughter was 9 when she made the switch to vegetarian eating, and she's gotten stricter over the last two years. Gelatin is a HUGE no-no for her. She requested a copy of Animal Ingredients A to Z for Christmas, and it's become her companion on trips to the grocery.

[Tri Girl]

I'm afraid the less I know about this topic, the better. I've already stopped eating meat for the most part because of guilt over using animals (but occasionally I'll crave it and I give in, I just do some penance to make up for it). If I started digging deeper I'd have to drasitically change my diet in order to not feel guilty. I'm changing one small step at a time...

TriGirl ***who is not looking into this matter further***

[alpinerabbit]

Oh, now that my head is clear - there's one very easy way around the horse goo problem: I do not use fabric softener.

I don't even use a drier (or is it a dryer?).

I love how towels get all hard, it's like free loofah in the morning - invigorating.

[ny biker]

Just noticed this when I was grocery shopping tonight - Seventh Generation now makes fabric softener dryer sheets. They use plant-based ingredients.

[LilBolt]

Aside from the animal matter, fabric softener is the mortal enemy of most of the technical fabrics that our fine (aka pricey) performance outerwear (and some innerwear) is made of. I do use Method or Seventh Generation for the sheets & towels.

[shootingstar]

Jell-O, most marshmallows, frosted Pop-tarts, most brands of yogurt, Gummi-worms, most brands of jelly beans, conversation hearts for Valentine's Day... the list goes on and on. (Can't you tell we love our sweets?!) Youngest daughter was 9 when she made the switch to vegetarian eating, and she's gotten stricter over the last two years. Gelatin is a HUGE no-no for her. She requested a copy of Animal Ingredients A to Z for Christmas, and it's become her companion on trips to the grocery.

Perhaps your daughter needs to reconsider agar-agar. It's gelatin derived from seaweed. Japanese have used it for centuries.

I have nothing else to contribute to this fabric softener hot topic. I've never used any fabric softener in my life. Do I plan to? No need.

[papaver]

Perhaps your daughter needs to reconsider agar-agar. It's gelatin derived from seaweed. Japanese have used it for centuries.

I have nothing else to contribute to this fabric softener hot topic. I've never used any fabric softener in my life. Do I plan to? No need.

and BTW fabric softener is an abosulute no go for cycling gear. Never use it to wash your jersey's and shorts.

[Irulan]

Aside from the animal matter, fabric softener is the mortal enemy of most of the technical fabrics that our fine (aka pricey) performance outerwear (and some innerwear) is made of. I do use Method or Seventh Generation for the sheets & towels.

yep, fabric softener bonds with your wicking fibers and clogs them up so they don't work any more.

I use nature's freshener.... line dry!!

[HoosierGiant]

Perhaps your daughter needs to reconsider agar-agar. It's gelatin derived from seaweed. Japanese have used it for centuries.

Agar... carrageenan... welcome to the world of polysaccharides! She's giving us all quite an education!:)

[Karma007]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

[HoosierGiant]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

Thanks a million!!!

[OakLeaf]

If you just get the agar plain (either powdered or in sticks or sheets, which just take a little longer to dissolve) you can make jello with any type of fruit juice. Way cheaper and healthier than pre-packaged desserts!

Plus, since the thickening agent is a soluble fiber rather than a protein with gelatin, it's actually good for you.

[gnarwhal]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

YAY! Another Vegan cyclist who loves Isa! I have VwaV on my wishlist but people keep buying me Veganomicon...i have 3 copies now. :eek:

[indigoiis]

Hm. For all we know, vegetables have consciousness, too.

I only eat rocks.

[OakLeaf]

Ahem. I don't think there's any need to ridicule other people's life choices, which possibly have a religious or spiritual basis. (And note that it's only Buddhist and Hindu religious traditions that make "consciousness" a foundation of vegetarianism; Christian vegetarianism is historically based more on what eating the animal does to one's own body and spiritual state).

I've been slipping lately, for a number of reasons that I won't go into here, but I know very clearly which creatures I'm prepared to kill and which ones I'm not. What did/would you do when it's your turn to wring the chicken's neck or cut the steer's throat? Have you ever been to a branding?

This thread started by talking about horse byproduct. Many people who aren't vegetarians recoil at the idea of slaughtering certain animals that are capable of forming deep emotional bonds with humans. Horse slaughter is now banned in the USA (whether you approve of that legislation or not). Meat from dogs or cats - while common in some cultures - wouldn't last half a second on US grocery shelves.

[Aggie_Ama]

My family and DH's are ranchers though so you can guess we will never embrace the lifestyle but I will never go to the slaughter house again. So even the carnivores draw the line and I don't care about others choices. But I must say a rock would really hurt my teeth. :)

When I was in high school my best friend was from Indian and ate primarily vegetarian, although chicken was eaten. I would give anything to have a big helping of her mom's Samosas again. Heaven in triangle and no Indian restuarant can hold a candle to hers. I could die just thinking of them. She used to make them for me for driving her home from college for the weekend and tell me I could freeze them but they never lasted long enough.

[Karma007]

I don't judge other poeples diets. I simply believe that if every single person did a little more, we'd all be better off. If you can't give up meat, fine, just be aware of what you're eating, and what is being given to it before you eat it. If you're still okay with it, cool. We're all friends. I choose to avoid animal products where possible. My cycling shoes are leather. Does it make me a bad vegan or an avid cyclist? I don't know. I don't really care.
Regardless, I am thrilled to have another vegan cyclist on board.
And, to stay on topic, I threw away my dryer sheets last night. This has been an informative thread.

ETA- Vegan Cupcakes Take of The World is one of the most awesome cookbooks ever, no matter what you eat!

[indigoiis]

I apologize - I was not ridiculing. The rocks part was definitely being silly, yes, but I was making a valid point. Vegetables are living organisms and we really don't know that they don't have consciousness or feel pain. Where does one draw the line?

[Blueberry]

Where does one draw the line?

For me, it's what I could kill myself and where I can sleep at night. Yes, we all have to eat something (and pleasantly crunchy as rocks are, I doubt my digestive tract would like them:p). And yes, I don't eat beef, but I wear leather shoes. I haven't found an acceptable substitute. I know it's an inconsistency, and I can live with it. Most people never think about it.

However, I agree - being aware is key. If you choose to eat beef, etc. - find a local source. Make sure you know what the animals are being fed, and that they're humanely treated. And if each person gave up meat just a few days or even meals a week, we'd all be a lower burden on the planet.

CA

[Karma007]

I was vegetarian in midlle school and high school, until I got a job in a delicatessen.. As to to question of where one draws the line, I read Fast Food Nation a few years ago and developed an interest in where my food was coming from, and the less than honerable dealings of processed food manufacturing. I went vegetarian as more of an experiment more than anything else. I decided to try it for a day and it not only stuck, it evolved. Everyone has their limits, and their reasons for doing what they do. I don't preach, but I do encourage (here, try these most awesome cupcakes...) people to be aware of their food, whatever they chose to eat. The idea of hormones and antibiotics in my food is just as nasty to me as persticides on my apples.
That said, I am going to back out of this conversation (if I can keep my damn mouth shut) b/c discussions on food, poilitcs, religion and who is most evil on Survivor never end well.

[indigoiis]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

[gnarwhal]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

[Karma007]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

That's funny! I can hear the sizzle of grilled vegys now!

[shootingstar]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

Don't know how old your daughter is..but soon it might help she prepares some of the food herself. Just to understand what it is required to be vegan in meal planning and recipes.

It won't be Asia she might have problems for vegan options, it might be some parts of South America. We recently heard some real stories of serious meat eating cultures there from touring cyclists. Especially outside of big cities.

[Karma007]

Indido, does your daughter help with the cooking and shopping (I know, not cool...but vegan cooking can be awesome, especially with the right cookbooks. Have I mentioned the cupcakes?). I would tell her that, while she's welcome to eat what she wants, if she wants more than rice and vegys, she better learn to cook, and how to seek out the good stuff, even in a less than stellar grocery. There is also a list on the web somewhere of "accidentaly vegan" foods for her to check out, should she miss some of her junk food faves (Oreos!)

There are a lot of myths concerning meat and dairy free diets ("the'yre all skinny and malnourished...you can't be a serious athlete on a vegan diet...you won't get enough protien"...) and if she is choosing this route, especially as a growing teen, she'll need to have a firm understanding of what her nutritional requirements are.

Also, if's she a web surfer, have her check out the Post Punk Vegan Kitchen (theppk.com). It's full of like minded individuals, and if she loves food, she's welcome there, regardless of where her politics stand.

Feel free to email me if you would like more info :)

Here's me...shutting up again...

[deeaimond]

Indigo,

I agree with shootingstar, that if your daughter chooses to be a strict vegan, you should not have to be the one cracking your head over what she can or cannot eat all the time. Since she is old enough to make the food choices that enable her to be a vegan, she should also be able to take enough care to make sure she is eating healthily. Learning to cook for herself will mean that she gets to experience how complicated food prep can be and so she will learn to not complain. It also means there are more things for her to eat, and who knows, some of them might be good enough to tempt the rest of the family as well. (Then occasionally she can take over the cooking duties :D leaving you free to go for as nice long ride)

In my home my parents have always worked full time so cooking duties always fell to me. I cook well, but occasionally there are some slip-ups. Or sometimes, especially these days when i come back from work exhausted (with more work waiting to be done) and dad and bro are just waiting for a meal. I'm happy to cook more (I have to eat too)

But I understand the frustrations of having to prepare food around the various likes and dislikes of a whole family of people. Having one vegan makes it even more tough I imagine. Fortunately for me, no one dares complain (because then I will just cook for myself for a week and all they can have is the smell of good food.):p

Oh and another good jelly substitute for gelatin is konnyaku (a kind of japanese yam) It makes excellent jello and is full of fibre.

As for the original topic of fabric softener, I don't use any either, because its hard to know what kind of chemicals are in it and i have unidentified allergies to chemicals.

[Irulan]

Don't know how old your daughter is..but soon it might help she prepares some of the food herself. Just to understand what it is required to be vegan in meal planning and recipes.


I third this. She's got no business complaining about which yogurt you buy etc if shes a) not doing the shopping, b) not paying for it and c) not doing the food prep. It's easy to have a special diet when someone else is doing all the work.

While my kids never did vegan or other non-mainstream food paths, I did have a very picky eater. He learned at a very young age that I wasn't a short order cook or a waitress, and that he could come and help shop if he didn't like what I got. ( we are talking when he was 10 or so) Even at that young age, he knew how to fix things for himself if he didn't like what was on the menu.

[indigoiis]

Thanks you all.
We were getting tired of the rocks. :D

[Brandi]

Well, you can also go for synthetic ingredients.
These are petrol based. Petrol is dead dinosaurs. Go figure.

Your horse tallow will have been purified, distilled, and transfigured so that there's no dead stuff in there...

Do you use lipstick? can you say lice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal)?

And you do wear leather shoes, don't you? I'm just saying... not trying to make fun of ya. I use vegan lip stuff as well as makeup. i don't have many leather things actually. I am just slightly bothered by using it on stuff I rub oe wear on my body. You can make fun of me! I am rubber!

[Brandi]

Just noticed this when I was grocery shopping tonight - Seventh Generation now makes fabric softener dryer sheets. They use plant-based ingredients.
I will be going the vegan route!

[Brandi]

yep, fabric softener bonds with your wicking fibers and clogs them up so they don't work any more.

I use nature's freshener.... line dry!!
I would love to line dry but we live in a very moist environment so it won't work for me.To bad I would love to dry my clothes like that.

[Brandi]

YAY! Another Vegan cyclist who loves Isa! I have VwaV on my wishlist but people keep buying me Veganomicon...i have 3 copies now. :eek: Bet some ladies here would buy them off you?

[Brandi]

I am not a vegan. I don't do crap food though except here and there if there is nothing else. I am bothered by the fact that we need all these wierd things in our life. I don't mind eating meat here and there. We tend to lean twords vegatarian if we can. I don't use fabric softener's on our bike our hiking clothes. I liked it for things like sweaters, towels, sheets etc...I understand it is clean and so on. But putting animal fat on your clothes is strange now that I know about it. And it doesn't say on the bottles so looking for it doesn't work. I know there are probably a lot of things just like this. But what does fabric softner really do? Make your clothes smell nice and soft? True. But do we need it?

[Irulan]

static control, "soft feeling", wrinkle control and artificial scents.

[Aggie_Ama]

I switched to Bamboo Sheets and they can't use dryer sheets but they are oh so soft. Organic sheets, no fabric softener= win! And they breath so well in hot Texas. My only gripe is they are a natural color and seem dingy because DH and I both tend to have oily skin in the summer. But did I mention they seem naturally soft and light? :)

[Karma007]

I found thse neat laundry sachets at Trader Joe's. They're reusable, and gave my laundry nice lavendar scent...

[Brandi]

I found thse neat laundry sachets at Trader Joe's. They're reusable, and gave my laundry nice lavendar scent...
I am going to tj's today I will look for those!