Measuring sit bones--is my yoga mat defective?

[Ana]

I am having the worst time trying to measure my sit bones. I have tried the paper/yoga mat but my sit bones don't make a deep enough impression to measure. I even made my own butt-o-meter with a ziplock baggie, water and flour but it's still very unclear where my sitbones are. I can feel them with my fingers when I'm sitting but they won't make impressions on anything.

I've done the butt-o-meter at the shop but it's far away and inconvenient for me so I know my sit bones can be measured.

Does anyone have any other tips? :p

I'm trying out the old Jett model (with seams) in 130 which is my previous Specialized saddle size. There is no soft tissue pain but a lot of weight put on my sit bones, even with my most heavily padded shorts. The pain is not as bad as the Terry Butterfly I tried a while back (I had to stop riding after 20 minutes my sit bones hurt so badly).

[VeloVT]

Hmmm... I enlisted my boyfriend as an assistant and bent over while he measured. :o

[Ana]

Hmmm... I enlisted my boyfriend as an assistant and bent over while he measured. :o

Single woman here so no possibility of enlisting non-embarrassing help ;)

[Zen]

Here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=21618&highlight=measuring+bones) ya go.

[OakLeaf]

Try a thicker mat, or folding the one you have in fourths. It's got to be able to compress enough to leave dents in the paper.

Set it on a hard surface - a flat stepstool, a hard chair, or an uncarpeted stair.

Before you take the impression, sit on the stool or whatever surface you plan to use without the mat, and wiggle your spine and pelvis around until you can feel your sitbones pressing against the surface. Then use that body knowledge to stick your sitbones out when you do take the impression.

HTH.

[sundial]

For a do it at home job, I had the best luck sitting on a counter stool with paper--it was about the right height to get a good impression.

[Ana]

Here (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=21618&highlight=measuring+bones) ya go.

Thanks for the thread link but I've already done a search for "sit bone measurement", etc and browsed all the threads :p

I think I might be doing something wrong? :p


Try a thicker mat, or folding the one you have in fourths. It's got to be able to compress enough to leave dents in the paper.

Set it on a hard surface - a flat stepstool, a hard chair, or an uncarpeted stair.

Before you take the impression, sit on the stool or whatever surface you plan to use without the mat, and wiggle your spine and pelvis around until you can feel your sitbones pressing against the surface. Then use that body knowledge to stick your sitbones out when you do take the impression.

HTH.

Oakleaf--I tried sitting my homemade butt-o-meter on the yoga mat (which was on a hard surface) and on the hard surface alone. I will try folding my yoga mat, though :)

Unfortunately, I do not have a stepstool :( The chair I use at home is a ball chair (http://www.productappeal.com/photos/uncategorized/gaiam_ergonomic_balance_ball_chair.jpg) ;)

Trying to ride on this Jett saddle is killing my sit bones :p

[sundial]

Ok, what about putting paper on top of the potty lid and giving it a whirl? One TE'er used Playdoh to get an impression.

[alpinerabbit]

Trying to ride on this Jett saddle is killing my sit bones :p
There is no soft tissue pain but a lot of weight put on my sit bones, even with my most heavily padded shorts.

yeah but(t)....


that's where your weight is supposed to be. So the width will be alright, maybe wrong thickness of padding (watch out, more padding does not necessarily = more comfort); and maybe you just need to give your sitbones time to HTFU?

If all else fails, there are always SMP saddles. They cradle your entire pelvic bone ridge (don't know the exact anatomical term) from sit bones forward. I was just musing about mine and I find they give comfort because they offer more than one good angle to sit.

[Miranda]

Hi Ana... OK, first of all, ditch that ball chair to sit on for the measurement.

I don't know if you saw any of my blab about sitz bones, saddle pain, bike fit, my wretched seat post design, etc. in your search but I am still looking for my saddle.

Part of my issue, well I hope it corrects 90th percentile of issues, is my bike doesn't fit. Have you had a "good" fit? And by "good" I don't mean one of those idiotic places that tells you "oh, looky honey, you can clear the top tube, it's a girly bike--you are a girly-yes?, then it fits--hooray". *pauses to vomit seething bile* (this was IME pre-days of finding TE of course;))

Is the saddle put on *level*? Like with an actual tool that shows such. My stupid one bolt tounge-n-groove seat post would tend to shift one groove either way after I rode (even with really ratching it down) and un-leveled many saddles. It wasn't just my hand strength as a women either...

There is a thread I have in bike maint. about it. A couple peeps said even their lbs mechanics had an ill word for that design. That is on my list of bike hates for future buying.

I drove a ways to the Specialized dealer to get their sitz bones tests. Next closest town over from Mayberry got the Bontrager seat. I sat on that too. I used Play-dough with plastic wrap on the top and bottom. I also used a Pillsbury ready made pie crust dough rolled out between plastic wrap and waxed paper.

The bare hard top of a toliet seat is a good tip (take off the funky fuzzy lid cover of course if you own one). I did have a small step stool. If you have steps and they are carpeted, you can put something hard over the carpet. A bigger cutting board... metal cookie sheet, etc.

The cement stoop step to my fronch porch worked well. The tip you got about sitting on it just for feel first is good. Then set up your measurement mold stuff.

Also, if there is a way to wedge your hands underneath what you seating on and sorta pull your weight down, then hold, it helps to make the impression. Sit there holding the place until it starts to almost hurt (sorta like the saddle pain). Then, measure.

Lastly, if you use my pressue pulling technique to deepen your sitz bone dents... remember the soft glute tissue will spread out more... HOWEVER, the highest point of the sitz bone tip meausrement should remain unchanged. It doesn't matter how much the tissue mushes out, or there is of it, the bone structure itself is constant.

Good Luck!:)

[lph]

good tips all around, and I would add - have a pen ready. And maybe a helpful friend. As soon as you remove yourself from whatever you're sitting on, feel around and pinpoint the deepest part of the probably rather large indentations you've made, and mark them with a pen. When I did this with paper on a yoga mat the indentations would disappear within seconds and be impossible to mark off. I also repeated the measurements several times, and reckoned an average.

[OakLeaf]

+1 on marking the paper, but I outlined the whole indentation as well as marking the deepest points. That gave me a record of the shape and slant of my sit bones as well as the distance between them.

Then I took the paper saddle shopping. Laying it over a saddle could tell me pretty quickly which saddles I shouldn't even bother trying.

And make sure you're putting enough weight on your butt. You didn't say what you're using for a hard surface, but if you're trying to sit on the floor with your legs extended, your legs will be taking a lot of your weight. A hard toilet seat is a good idea!

[aicabsolut]

Be sure you put it on a raised surface (like a chair or bench), sit and lean forward. When you lean forward, your sit bones will poke through more to make the indentations more clear.

I think you have the right size, though. When the saddle is too wide, you will have chafing problems from the sides of the saddle or your hips may rock. When the saddle is too narrow, you will have more soft tissue pain and pressure on the pubis, because not enough of your weight is supported by your sit bones. Sit bone pain only, though, indicates that you probably have the right size. It can take time to break in the saddle (and your butt). I do agree that more padding isn't necessarily good, but often too much padding causes different problems than what you're experiencing.

You may want to play with the angle of the saddle to see if that makes a difference.

[Ana]

Hi Ana... OK, first of all, ditch that ball chair to sit on for the measurement.

Good Luck!:)

Oh no, I am not using my ball chair to measure my sit bones! I was just pointing out that I don't have a hard-surfaced chair. :p

Thank you for the tips!


I also repeated the measurements several times, and reckoned an average.

You sound like a scientist--I can appreciate that ;) :D


Be sure you put it on a raised surface (like a chair or bench), sit and lean forward. When you lean forward, your sit bones will poke through more to make the indentations more clear.

I think you have the right size, though. When the saddle is too wide, you will have chafing problems from the sides of the saddle or your hips may rock. When the saddle is too narrow, you will have more soft tissue pain and pressure on the pubis, because not enough of your weight is supported by your sit bones. Sit bone pain only, though, indicates that you probably have the right size. It can take time to break in the saddle (and your butt). I do agree that more padding isn't necessarily good, but often too much padding causes different problems than what you're experiencing.

You may want to play with the angle of the saddle to see if that makes a difference.

I'll try the leaning forward thing :) Yeah, I think I have the right size but the pain is so different from my previous saddle :p I am going to give it a chance and try to break it in, though :)

I am also playing with the saddle tilt a bit. I am trying to figure out what that "butt support" thing is all about. I am just not sure whether I have it because my sensations of the saddle are overwhelmingly of the pain in my sitbones. I have a 2-bolt system so it's pretty good. I usually put a book on top of the saddle and see if it's level (although I don't actually own a level so it's not that exact).

[Eden]

I was thinking the same thing as AB and Alpinerabbit - you sit bones are what you want in contact with the saddle, so pressure on them is normal and even desirable - but severe pain after 20 min doesn't sound right either.... Butt break in usually feels more like really tender when you first sit back on the saddle the day after a long ride then goes away after a few minutes back on the bike. (And eventually stops happening altogether)

I'm wondering if the saddle is just a little too narrow and your sit bones, while still in contact with the saddle and protecting your soft tissue, are trying to slide off of the edges?

[sundial]

I'm trying out the old Jett model (with seams) in 130 which is my previous Specialized saddle size. There is no soft tissue pain but a lot of weight put on my sit bones, even with my most heavily padded shorts. The pain is not as bad as the Terry Butterfly I tried a while back (I had to stop riding after 20 minutes my sit bones hurt so badly).

Several TE'ers have complained about the Jett being too hard. I love my Specialized Avatar saddle. I noticed you said 130mm. Many people average 145mm so is there a chance you could borrow one in that width and give it a whirl? Just to see? As for the Terry saddle, many of her saddles come in a pear shape. Even though it may be the right width, it may be the wrong shape for you. I always had pain on the inside of my sit bones with her saddles. I guess the saddle sloped too much and I need a flatter type saddle--hence the Avatar.

[Ana]

I'm wondering if the saddle is just a little too narrow and your sit bones, while still in contact with the saddle and protecting your soft tissue, are trying to slide off of the edges?

Well, I'm beginning to wonder if my saddle is not too narrow as well, now... Where, exactly, are your sit bones supposed to rest on the saddle? How close to the medial line? :p

When I got measured for my saddle at the LBS where I purchased my bike (I have since decided they do not fit my needs in terms of knowledge, effectiveness, and friendliness), I sat on the butt-o-meter and the guy grabbed that thing from under me so fast once I got up, I couldnt' believe it! :confused: He tilted it so I could not see it and fiddled with it for a while before he told me he thought I was a 130. Now, if I am "between" sizes on my measurement, is it better to go a size up?


Several TE'ers have complained about the Jett being too hard. I love my Specialized Avatar saddle. I noticed you said 130mm. Many people average 145mm so is there a chance you could borrow one in that width and give it a whirl? Just to see? As for the Terry saddle, many of her saddles come in a pear shape. Even though it may be the right width, it may be the wrong shape for you. I always had pain on the inside of my sit bones with her saddles. I guess the saddle sloped too much and I need a flatter type saddle--hence the Avatar.

If any of you TE'ers could spare a T-shaped 143 saddle, I will pay the shipping to me and back to you! (If you want it back)

I will definitely look into a 143 :p I browsed through so many other saddle threads and I saw that there are supposed to be about 1cm in each side of your sit bone measurement?

I cannot tell you how much this input helps me. Saddle searching is so difficult to begin with that having the wrong width just complicates things. It is so frustrating when bicycle salesmen (it was the owner who was helping me.....:mad:) think it's okay to sell you things that you don't need or that are wrong for you.

sigh

The search for a saddle continues... I would loooove to find one of those that "disappears" while I ride! That would be a dream! :D

Here is a picture of the Jett. I think my sitbones hit the saddle at the pink circles: not exactly in the middle of the seamed space but a little towards the outside.

[tzvia]

Ana,
I would guess that as long as your sit-bones are on the padded parts and not on the hard edges, it would be a good size. Saddles are made for a range of sizes, hence the generous padded areas. The next larger size may be too big and interfere with pedaling motion. But as we all know, there is more to comfort than fit. I could not get the Jett saddle comfortable no matter what I did. I raised the nose, lowered the nose, double checked the fore-aft and seat height; I ended up frustrated with it and ditched it for an Aspide Glamor. Sometimes the extra padding is just not comfortable. I think it was just not supporting me properly. The Aspide Glamor has no cutout and is thinly padded and you would think it would be painful looking at it. But for me, it was fine, but a little flexy so I kept looking

I have since bought a Bontrager saddle (they have a 90 day unconditional return so I thought 'what the heck'). They have several models, and I went with the RXL, which again has no cutout, thin padding, and has firm support (carbon shell). It does not look as comfortable as the Jet, but it is night and day for me- When I die, I am going to be buried with that saddle!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yes, your sit bones is where most of your weight SHOULD be.
Look, I didn't ride all winter. Yesterday I finally got in a 20 mile ride to start the year off. Today my sitbones are really really sore. That's totally normal. As I get in another dozen rides or so the soreness will be all gone for the year and I'll ride several thousand miles with no sit bone pain and no soft tissue pain at all. I ride on a pretty hard unpadded Brooks leather saddle that is basically designed to support my weight on the sitbones.

If you are used to only being on padded cushy foam/gel seats and padded chairs, then your sitbones are going to hurt the first time you actually put all your weight on them...and they'll be plenty sore for days afterwards. But they'll adapt as you keep riding and then they likely won't hurt anymore. Having your weight on your sit bones prevents painful soft tissue pressure.

Riding on your soft tissue areas and not on your sitbones is very painful and can lead to nerve damage. But unlike your sitbones, your soft tissue cannot adapt to bearing weight, and will simply continue to hurt and/or become numb with nerve damage.

[Ana]

Thank you for all of your input!! :D Sharing your experience is invaluable! :)


I could not get the Jett saddle comfortable no matter what I did. I raised the nose, lowered the nose, double checked the fore-aft and seat height; I ended up frustrated with it and ditched it for an Aspide Glamor. Sometimes the extra padding is just not comfortable. I think it was just not supporting me properly. The Aspide Glamor has no cutout and is thinly padded and you would think it would be painful looking at it. But for me, it was fine, but a little flexy so I kept looking

What about the Jett did not work out for you? Did you have similar intense sit bone pain?


I have since bought a Bontrager saddle (they have a 90 day unconditional return so I thought 'what the heck'). They have several models, and I went with the RXL, which again has no cutout, thin padding, and has firm support (carbon shell). It does not look as comfortable as the Jett, but it is night and day for me- When I die, I am going to be buried with that saddle!

Hm...maybe I will stop by my Trek LBS :) Is it one of the new Inform models I've seen a couple threads discuss?


Yes, your sit bones is where most of your weight SHOULD be.
Look, I didn't ride all winter. Yesterday I finally got in a 20 mile ride to start the year off. Today my sitbones are really really sore. That's totally normal. As I get in another dozen rides or so the soreness will be all gone for the year and I'll ride several thousand miles with no sit bone pain and no soft tissue pain at all. I ride on a pretty hard unpadded Brooks leather saddle that is basically designed to support my weight on the sitbones.

If you are used to only being on padded cushy foam/gel seats and padded chairs, then your sitbones are going to hurt the first time you actually put all your weight on them...and they'll be plenty sore for days afterwards. But they'll adapt as you keep riding and then they likely won't hurt anymore. Having your weight on your sit bones prevents painful soft tissue pressure.

Riding on your soft tissue areas and not on your sitbones is very painful and can lead to nerve damage. But unlike your sitbones, your soft tissue cannot adapt to bearing weight, and will simply continue to hurt and/or become numb with nerve damage.

Thanks, this is very encouraging! :D I will try to hold out for a dozen rides (it seems like so many :p) and try to break it in :)

I wish the bicycle stores were more attentive to saddles upon selling a bike... :p Perhaps it would make all this saddle searching less painful.

[Eden]

I'll agree that sit bone pain is normal until you break in your backside - but your description of excruciating pain after 20 min doesn't sound like normal sit bone soreness.....

It's been a while that I've been off the bike long enough, but what I remember is being on the saddle wasn't painful, what hurt was getting back on the day after or after a break - it would hurt for a few minutes and then that hurt would go away. Like breaking in a new pair of shoes.

btw - I have a several Jetts. One came on my race bike and I like it so much that I bought one for my rain bike - but everyone is a bit different, so what works for one person may not work for the next - keep trying. I think I'll go with the S works when these wear out - same shape, but thinner and lighter.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'll agree that sit bone pain is normal until you break in your backside - but your description of excruciating pain after 20 min doesn't sound like normal sit bone soreness.....
"excruciating" means different things to different people.
The substantial sitbone soreness I'm feeling today might possibly be called excruciating by someone else. I'm cringing every time I sit down today. :cool: I'll live.


It's been a while that I've been off the bike long enough, but what I remember is being on the saddle wasn't painful, what hurt was getting back on the day after or after a break - it would hurt for a few minutes and then that hurt would go away. Like breaking in a new pair of shoes.

I've had a lot more sitbone pain than that- but even the worst has always faded away completely after a week or two of regular riding. I guess we are all different- differently 'padded' behinds, different saddles, angles, etc.
I used to own a horse when i was young and rode all the time for hours. Now when I go for years without riding and then suddenly ride one day- I feel excruciatingly sore and painful both during and after the ride. One time I truly didn't think I could unmount and hit the ground standing because of the pain....but I did. I had to retreat to a bed for hours afterwards. :(

[GLC1968]

For measuring, I have a much simpler method assuming you have reasonable flexibility.

Get a tape measure (a flexible fabric or paper one), and lie on your back on the floor. Flip your legs into the air (towards your head) and feel around for your sit bones. When you locate them, measure them with the tape measure holding it with your thumbs marking the location of each bone. Then, without letting go, put your legs through your arms so that you can veiw the tape measure in front of you. Voila!

My sit bone measurement is 133. When I sat on the butt-o-meter, all they told me was that I needed a Specialized 143 saddle. No other information, which wasn't very helpful when looking at other brands! I tend to favor men's saddles. So far, I've been successfully using the Terry Fly, but because of the padding, it does get softer over time and needs replacing. Luckily, as far as saddles go, it's not that expensive. I need to replace it about every 3000 miles or so. I may have an extra one lying around, and if so, I'd be happy to let you try it out. I'm still searching for the perfect saddle which for me would pretty much be a Fly with minimal padding.

[malkin]

I went to the press the flexible tape measure against the bones school too. One hand on each side and don't let go before reading the measurement.

[tzvia]

Ana,
Yea the saddle is one of the new Inform ones, and I had seen it several times at the LBS before a crash damaged my Aspide and I had to buy a new saddle. At first, I looked at the WSD ones, which had more padding than I wanted. Then I noticed the RXL (Unisex) came in wide 154 (my sit bones measure 144)...

I had gone the padded route previously, with a Terry Butterfly TI, and it was ok till the padding 'broke in' and I just sank into the thing and it became painful. Then I found the Aspide Glamor, which felt ok, and I realized that padding is not for me; I want support. No holes, no Gel. I want my weight distributed evenly over the thing so I don't get pressure in any one spot.

The Jett just plain hurt. My sit bones hurt all the time. If I hit a bump, it hurt more. The longer I rode, the more it hurt till I was thrilled that the ride was over. Even my Terry was more comfortable. I read about the Aspide Glamor here, and bought one. One ride - no pain - and I realized that it was not my sit bones that were the problem, it was the Jett. To be fair, while I don't know what size it was, I am certain it was in the 140's and was too small. But I had ridden mens saddles for years without that kind of pain.

Yes, your sit-bones may need to get used to the saddle if you have been off the bike for some time, but you should see improvement over time as you put the rides in. If you don't then maybe the saddle isn't a good match.