Dog owners: do any of you feed raw?

[PamNY]

I'm interested in other human food diets, too, but mainly raw. I have two friends -- both educated, smart women -- who swear by raw feeding.

I'd always dismissed it as woo-woo, but the glowing reports from these two have piqued my interest. Both these women had difficult dogs. One bought a bulldog at a pet store (this was years ago and she knows better now). The other has very reactive bulldog; her interest in positive training has led her to become a dog trainer, and even in this economy she's done well. Both are educated professionals and diligent about veterinary care.

If you wonder why I'm raising this question in a bike group, I'm moderator of the bulldog group I belong too, and people get in such heated arguments about dog food. I already know what they think anyway. Plus lots of people here seem well-informed about food, health issues, etc.

Pam

[smurfalicious]

Yeppa! Been a big raw advocate for a very long time! My terrier's teeth were nasty and after a month on home prepared raw including raw bones, they were and still are gorgeous. You'd never my dogs weren't pups looking at their teeth.

The big thing with feeding raw over dry is the nutrition. Heat processing robs food of enzymes and vitamins. Raw doesn't have that problem. Also most dry dog foods are packed with grains and other things the dog simply doesn't need. Dogs were designed to eat raw meat, bones, and the partially digested vegetation of their prey. My dogs kindly gave me an example of that one morning, ick. Because dogs digestive tracks are so short bacteria is less of an issue.

Currently because of my roommate situation and life in Colorado being much more expensive my dogs get a combo. Hank doesn't tolerate grains well so they get grain free foods and I switch every bag. Currently they're eating Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit. I also use a product called Honest Kitchen that is a dehydrated food. The meat isn't technically raw because it's prepped in a human food facility, but it's heated to very low temps. So they get 50/50 Honest Kitchen and Nature's Variety. I also give them salmon oil and a vitamin/joint/digestive enzyme supplement.

Usually I feed raw patties but since our freezer is feeling fickle lately I haven't been. I use Stella & Chewy's patties because NV's prices just went up and S&C has a process that kills bad bacteria without harming the enzymes and such.

I could go on forever, but I'd probably leave stuff out. My dogs are doing great, you'd never know Lucky was 8. Their coats are gorgeous and they're energetic, not spastic. Like I took their Mountain Dew away and gave them fresh squeezed orange juice.

Anyway, my store has some really good resources, and you cruise for product info and reviews while you're there:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/KnowledgeBase/knowledgebaseresults.aspx?SubjectID=13252&SubjectName=Food+%26+Diet+-+Raw

This site also helped when I first started feeding raw:

http://www.pet-grub.com

This is sad, but good reading:

http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Meaty-Bones-Promote-Health/dp/0646396242/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235714365&sr=1-1

This is incredibly useful too, but he's big into grains and I don't agree:

http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235714413&sr=1-1

Good luck!

[Eden]

I have cats rather than dogs, but I did try raw food with them. It went well for the switch over period, when they were getting some raw food and some of their regular. Unfortunately they started throwing up when they were transitioned to all raw food, so I discontinued it.

They do get an all canned 100% meat diet (cats are not omnivores like dogs - they are obligate carnivores). I think they definitely are healthier for it. They are not overweight and have very glossy, very soft, dandruff free coats.

Recently I've been giving them dehydrated chicken breast dog treats - the same company makes cat treats, but the dog ones are bigger. It gives the cats something that they have to chew on. I figure its probably good for their teeth.

[tulip]

I'm a new dog owner. I feed my dog Taste of the Wild dry dog food, and supplement it with raw stuff (beef bones and chicken necks from the meat dept. of the grocery store). I haven't tried an all raw diet with him yet because I've been living for 6 months without a kitchen, and I was worried about bacteria and the mess. I know you can buy prepared frozen raw patties, but they're pretty expensive. I'm interested in learning more about raw diets for dogs.

Does anyone know if turkey necks are also good as raw food for dogs? I saw some in the store, but I wasn't sure if they are okay.

[Andrea]

Thanks for the links, smurf!

I'm thinking I may switch my dogs to a raw diet- I didn't realize it was so easy (you can prep/freeze ahead of time)

[ItchyBits]

Check out Judi's blog - she has 2 dobes that she feeds raw food
www.milesandmadness.blogspot.com

[Biciclista]

I've been feeding 50% raw food to my cats for about 2 years now. Their coats are gorgeous, i have no obesity problems (and I have a cat who was overweight when we started).

I feed my cats whole ground chicken with a concentration of heart and liver. The only thing they never get are the thighs (which I eat) It really makes me feel good to know that they are eating food that I would eat, after the melamine scare, I have a thing about that.
Meanwhile, I am also feeding them some dry cat food, it's made locally and i always add water to it before I feed it to them.

It's a pain in the butt to grind the meat up, but so is doing laundry, etc, etc.. it's just another chore that i do.

[Eden]

I'm pretty convinced that my male cat's UI problem was from tainted food... I read recently that *kids* in China who got the tainted milk have been suffering from not only kidney problems, but also bladder stones....
If my kitties had been able to keep it down, they would still be getting raw, but it just didn't work out for them. They love the food they get though (Ziwi Peak) and it is very high quality.

[roadie gal]

I admire people who can do the raw diet, but it just isn't feasible for me. I feed the dogs and the cats the best kibble I can, that they will tolerate. Right now they're all getting Innova EVO.

I belong to a dog forum where this is an endless discussion.

[Biciclista]

I belong to a dog forum where this is an endless discussion.

ha, i'll bet.

I have two big concerns with dry food.
1/ is that it is based on carbs; wheat, rice, corn. For dogs, this is less of a problem than cats, because it is known that dogs don't need 100% meat.

2/ eating such dry food is really unnatural, in the wild, dogs and cats are eating animals, whose bodies contain a very high percentage of liquid. Your pet will eat its dry food until it is full and then drink some water. But is it really enough water to reconstitute the food, or are they fighting dehydration constantly? I think this part can be helped by wetting the food. The pet will get used to that.
I also don't believe in leaving food out all day for them, but that's another subject. Good luck.

[roadie gal]

ha, i'll bet.

I have two big concerns with dry food.
1/ is that it is based on carbs; wheat, rice, corn. For dogs, this is less of a problem than cats, because it is known that dogs don't need 100% meat.

2/ eating such dry food is really unnatural, in the wild, dogs and cats are eating animals, whose bodies contain a very high percentage of liquid. Your pet will eat its dry food until it is full and then drink some water. But is it really enough water to reconstitute the food, or are they fighting dehydration constantly? I think this part can be helped by wetting the food. The pet will get used to that.
I also don't believe in leaving food out all day for them, but that's another subject. Good luck.


You can find grainless foods (like the one I feed).

I believe that dehydration is more of a problem with cats than dogs. Dogs do have a thirst mechanism that makes them drink. Cats don't. They're "designed" to get most of their water from their food rather than drinking. A lot of folks make an argument that cats fed kibble are chronically dehydrated. I'm struggling with the best thing to do for my cats because of this. I like free feeding, but I don't want wet stuff that can go bad sitting out.

[ccnyc]

I've been feeding my two cats a homemade raw diet for 9 years. They both have beautiful coats and muscles and they love their food. I grind whole chicken and Cornish Game hen with liver, heart and gizzards and also grind beef and lamb and add calcium to make sure it's balanced nutritionally. I add additional supplements also. It takes me only a few hours from start to finish to make a big batch of food which I freeze in small containers. Then it's as easy as feeding canned food. I make food about once a month.

You can get very high quality raw food (ground whole prey and parts) from a place called Hare Today.
http://www.hare-today.com/

Carol

[TsPoet]

My dogs get dry for breakfast and 25:75 dry:raw for dinner. I started this diet when my little guy was 7 years old. His fur returned to puppy fur right away, and he lost ~1 lb (from 21 to 20, so that's significant). He also returned to being more energetic and bouncy. He was beginning to act really old. This change in an old dog to a middle-aged dog is really extreme. We even started agility at the old age of 8, and he's doing great. He could not have done agility prior to the raw food, he was too old and slow moving.
My Shiba-x also has almost normal fur, instead of the typical shiba wiry stuff. She was 1.5 when I started her on raw food, so haven't noticed any health differences in her. They've been on this diet for 1.5 years now.
Their stools were unpleasant to clean up for about a month, now cleanup is better than it's ever been.
I feed them this
http://www.columbiarivernaturalpetfoods.com/
I really like that I have a somewhat local brand to get. At first I got meat only, because I was under the impression that dogs couldn't absorb veggies. After doing research on it, they now get chicken/veggies or turkey/veggies (I'm cheap and the others are more expensive.

The other thing to note is it's gross - the chicken and turkey are the least gross (fatty). Also, at first I lightly microwaved the meat - for me. Now I just grab a handful of the stuff and plop it in the bowl, no qualms. The dogs love it.

[Biciclista]

I've been feeding my two cats a homemade raw diet for 9 years. They both have beautiful coats and muscles and they love their food. I grind whole chicken and Cornish Game hen with liver, heart and gizzards and also grind beef and lamb and add calcium to make sure it's balanced nutritionally. I add additional supplements also. It takes me only a few hours from start to finish to make a big batch of food which I freeze in small containers. Then it's as easy as feeding canned food. I make food about once a month.

You can get very high quality raw food (ground whole prey and parts) from a place called Hare Today.
http://www.hare-today.com/

Carol
oh, wow, they sell rabbit! (and ergh, ground mice!)

[Kalidurga]

I've been feeding my two cats a homemade raw diet for 9 years.

Carol, your cats (in your avatar) are gorgeous. They remind me of my Ivan.

I'd love to do raw food for my cats but, like roadie gal, it's just not feasible with my schedule. So they get wet food twice a day, with a very small amount of kibble left out in between. I recently found a new kibble from Spot's Stew (http://shop.halopets.com/Cat-Dry-Indoor-Chicken-3lb) that apparently has no meals and the only grain is oatmeal. The cats wouldn't touch the Spot's Stew canned food, but the kibble smells like something I'd like to eat and Olive and Ivan love it.

[Norse]

After a scary bout with liver failure, our dog was switched to an all-natural diet (not raw though) and is doing wonderfully. Our two cats currently get the best canned food we can find, plus one gets low protein food sold by vets due to past liver problems. Seeing the marvelous results in our dog though, I would like to switch the cats to a natural foods diet.

Questions: Those of you grinding your own food, do you include the skin and bones? Did you buy a standard meat grinder for the task? Do you include any veggies or starch (like cooked rice) or just the meat? What supplements do you give? With raw meat, are you concerned about salmonella, e-coli and othe nasty things?

[Biciclista]

yes, i include chicken skin and bones. The only supplement I add is salmon oil. oh, and egg yolks. one yolk for every pound or so of meat..
I bought a dandy little grinder that goes right through chicken bones.

http://www.irawoods.com/Maverick-MM-5501-Meat-Grinder

[Norse]

Thanks Mimi. You mentioned that you also give them some dry food mixed with water. Is the dry food addition out of concern that they might be missing some nutrients otherwise? Also, do you cook the yokes?

[Andrea]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

[Biciclista]

Thanks Mimi. You mentioned that you also give them some dry food mixed with water. Is the dry food addition out of concern that they might be missing some nutrients otherwise? Also, do you cook the yokes?

It's all raw. I do not cook the yolks. I give them dry food because my oldest cat (14 years old) won't eat the raw food, and dry food is like candy(we call it kitty crack) to all of them, so I can't give HER kibbles and not let the others have any. I think they each get an ounce or an ounce and a half of kibbles a day.

[Biciclista]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

against? It's gross.
Also, a lot of people are concerned about salmonella. Since i use human grade food and wash and handle everything just like i would for my own plate, I think I'm ok. Cats and dogs can tolerate salmonella when we can't. I'm not going to eat it off the floor, but the fact is, 30 minutes after I put it down, the cats have cleaned the bowls.

[roadie gal]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

It's gross.

It can take a lot of prep time.

It can be harder to board your dog or have someone watch it if it's on a complicated food schedule.

It can be harder to get a fully balanced, nutritionally complete diet.

It can be more expensive.

Some animals can't tolerate it.

If you want to look at some of the arguments, go to www.dogforums.com and browse the dog food forum. There are MANY threads dealing with the pros and cons and the how-tos of raw feeding. Some people are very passionate... in both directions.

[Tuckervill]

If cats don't have a thirst reflex, why do they drink at all?

Seems illogical to me.

Karen, happy with her dry food fed cats and dogs with bright, shiny coats, beautiful musculature, and healthy fitness

[Biciclista]

If cats don't have a thirst reflex, why do they drink at all?

Seems illogical to me.

Karen, happy with her dry food fed cats and dogs with bright, shiny coats, beautiful musculature, and healthy fitness

they don't have a strong thirst reflex. They do have a thirst reflex.
Domestic cats have several problems that are caused/exacerbated by not drinking enough, including urinary disorders and kidney failure.

[sundial]

The question about the benefits of raw feeding does indeed spark heated debates. I have friend that feed their dogs the BARF diet and swear by it. I once fostered a dog that was on a raw diet.

Although dogs are not prone to some health issues eating raw, people are and even though I have fed them out in the backyard, in my opinion it sets up the potential for problems like E coli.

Personally, I have fed my dogs home cooked foods and saw similar benefits--reduction in skin problems, a shiny coat, less tartar, and increase of energy. I think the preservatives and less than quality ingredients in some dry kibble seems to increase some health problems. I also believe it's not a coincidence that cancer is increasing in dogs due to the fact that kibble contains byproducts of poultry and cattle which are fed questionable feed.

This is just my personal observation and every owner will have to consider the pros and cons of raw feeding.

[eclectic]

Tulip

I just perused the thread very quickly so if your question was answered I missed it.

re poultry bones

I am by no means an expert and this may be folklore passed on generation to generation but I was always told not to give poultry bones to dogs because they splinter and can get caught too easily in their throat and digestive track.

BUT on the other hand when my dog is a bored, naughty, mad at us, for leaving her too long girl and gets into the trash - she has been known to eat poultry bones and has been no worse for wear because of it. I just don't intentionally give them to her. She is a large midsize dog

Someone mentioned earlier that they grind them - I would think that would take care of all the problems

Onto the other discussion Raw vs dry

IMHO I think raw would be more natural and better. I would think if they were started on that since being a puppy they wouldn't have trouble - I think switching them over would be more difficult

I on the other hand feed my dog very inexpensive dry (OK I am a bad mom :o )
She has eaten the same dog food since we got her in the middle of her puppy stage. She is now 12 going on 13. She had cancer when she was 7 but after having surgery she has been cancer free for over 5 years. She is just now starting to get cataracts. We thought she was going deaf but have since learned she has very selective hearing.

She is an "over the fence" breed

All our purebreds never lived past 11 - definately something to be said for mutts!

[Norse]

Having not tried raw yet, other than giving the cats an occasional few pieces of raw fish or chicken, I can't speak for it but I am curious. However, I have observed that our 8 year old dog has never looked better since switching her to a home-cooked diet. For treats, she gets raw carrots. To satisfy her urge to chew, she has big nylabone.

[hayleymajayley]

I had only heard a little about raw food diets for dogs before. This is very interesting! I just got my first dog 3 weeks ago, she's now 12 weeks old. We'd been feeding her Kirkland Signature food, because that's what the breeder reccommended and hey it's SO CHEAP!!!! But then she developed crystals in her urine because she's not metabalizing it well. She's currently on a special wet food, but I'm not sure what to put her on when we go back to regular food. We are crazy busy right now so I doubt we could fit grinding up chickens into the schedule, and funds are tight so I don't want to do anything crazy expensive. Any good not too pricey natural foods out there?

[Biciclista]

You're in western washington. Go to a good pet food store (not petsmart) and ask.

[ccnyc]

Carol, your cats (in your avatar) are gorgeous. They remind me of my Ivan.

Thank you. I think they are very handsome. Must be the raw diet.;)

[Tuckervill]

they don't have a strong thirst reflex. They do have a thirst reflex.
Domestic cats have several problems that are caused/exacerbated by not drinking enough, including urinary disorders and kidney failure.

Oh, I guess I didn't remember the adjective by the time I got around to posting a response.

I know about cats having kidney problems. My cats seem to want to drink every day, so I don't worry about them.

Karen

[Eden]

RE - poultry bones, like turkey neck. I have no idea of the truth of this, but I read that cooking is what makes poultry bones prone to splinter and that raw bones are OK for animals to eat. I have not been brave enough to give my kitties any turkey necks to gnaw as my little one tends to try to swallow things whole....

[ccnyc]

Questions: Those of you grinding your own food, do you include the skin and bones? Did you buy a standard meat grinder for the task? Do you include any veggies or starch (like cooked rice) or just the meat? What supplements do you give? With raw meat, are you concerned about salmonella, e-coli and othe nasty things?

When I grind chicken or cornish game hen I grind it all - skin, bones, organs, neck. It is nutritionally balanced re calcium phosphorus ratio. Meat from large animals with bones too hard to grind like beef and lamb need to have calcium added to balance the high phosphorus in the meat.

I have a Maverick grinder like Mimi, although mine is 9 years old. It's a great grinder. You can't just use any grinder. Some of the more powerful ones don't grind bones very well.
This is supposed to be a very good grinder also.
http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=47

I don't include any starch/grain because cats don't have any need for them. (I've read that dogs can utilize nutrients from grain.) I include a small amount of veggie as a fiber source.

In the 9 years I've been preparing the raw diet I've never had any problems with the cats, or myself, getting sick from the raw food.

If anyone wants further info on raw diets for cats http://holisticat.com/ is a great resource. So is their forum.

Carol

[ccnyc]

RE - poultry bones, like turkey neck. I have no idea of the truth of this, but I read that cooking is what makes poultry bones prone to splinter and that raw bones are OK for animals to eat. I have not been brave enough to give my kitties any turkey necks to gnaw as my little one tends to try to swallow things whole....

It's true. Cooked bones splinter. Raw bones are fine to eat. One of my cats swallowed a 2 inch piece of chicken neck! I was shocked. He hates to chew bones. He was fine. I guess a cats highly acidic stomach acid took care of the neck.

Carol

[PamNY]

Thanks for the interesting (and non woo-woo) discussion. Thanks also for posting links, all of which seemed useful when I looked at them. I am especially interested in hearing about dogs who started acting "middle-aged" again. I've heard that over and over.

Now I just have to figure out how to do this in my home. I don't eat meat, and find it unpleasant, but at least with raw you are spared the smell of cooking. I really like the idea of grinding, though not the idea of paying $200 for a grinder.
I wonder if I can get a butcher to grind up chickens -- guess I'll find out if I ask.

Pam

[Biciclista]

I wonder if I can get a butcher to grind up chickens -- guess I'll find out if I ask.

Pam

I thought i'd get my local butcher to do that for me too. I can't remember why he wouldn't but he had a LOT of reasons. It would be hard for me to do if I didn't like meat. I like the smell of fresh chicken so that part is pleasurable for me.

[badger]

When I first got my dog, it took me quite a few months to figure out how to control his colitis. I debated the raw food diet, but was told that he'll most likely get worse before he gets better, so I never tried him on it. He was on Gastro, a specialized diet from the vet for the rest of his life (both wet and dry). He lived to about 13-14.

I'd love to try raw/home made food for my obese kitty. I wouldn't be surprised if his aggressive behaviour gets better.

Are there any health issues in buying already ground chicken from a grocery store, or do you grind yourself due to cost saving measures?

[Andrea]

I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to think that grinding at home is important in order to prevent bacteria contamination.

[Biciclista]

The ground chicken at the supermarket does not contain bones or organ meats. (or skin probably) all of which are important to a carnivore's diet. That's why we don't use it. It's probably fine bacteria wise or they wouldn't be selling it to people.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Isn't salmonella a fairly regular problem in raw chicken? (or am I just thinking of raw eggs?). If so, doesn't it affect dogs and cats if they ingest stuff with salmonella? Humans usually cook chicken before eating it, and that destroys the salmonella, right?
I'm just curious.

[Eden]

Isn't salmonella a fairly regular problem in raw chicken? (or am I just thinking of raw eggs?). If so, doesn't it affect dogs and cats if they ingest stuff with salmonella? Humans usually cook chicken before eating it, and that destroys the salmonella, right?
I'm just curious.

They evolved eating raw meat (and entrails!) Cats and dogs have a shorter, and I believe more acidic, digestive system than humans and they rarely have any effects at all from salmonella or ecoli, unless they are immuno-compromised. If you feed raw you have to be careful managing their waste as it is possible that it might be contaminated with those bugs, (like you would want to not be careful about handling poo.....) but many people feed raw and you don't hear about them being sick all of the time.

If it really worries you, you can put a whole chicken in boiling water for a short dip to kill the pathogens on the outside, but leave it for the most part raw - as far as I know that's where things like salmonella and ecoli live. That's why eating a rare steak is just fine, but hamburger is a bad idea- with the hamburg you've taken the outside and ground it all up putting it inside...

Now parasites are a different matter - cats and dogs can get stuff like giardia and it will affect them. I would guess that raw pork (because of trichinosis) probably should not be on the menu for either of them.

[nancielle]

I don't do a full raw diet with Chloe; she showed no interest in many of the foods offered to her. Because she is intolerant of grains, she's fed a grain free kibble (and was fussy about the different ones tried.) Her scratching was eliminated when grain based food was removed. She does get some raw meals and bones (she loves chicken and turkey necks.) I also do some home-cooked meals for her as well.

Hunter (the cat) showed w a y too much interest in her raw food (seriously I never even considered raw for him. Don't know why.) So now I make sure I have enough for him to share in as well. He especially likes beef and makes a little chirping noise as he eats. :) He also drinks a lot. He especially likes splashing water from Chloe's bowl.

[tulip]

For now I feed dry food to my dog, with a raw beef bone every few days, but I mix the dry food with 1/2 cup of warm water. He seems to like it, and I know he's getting water that way. I also put a bit of flax seed oil in his food. His coat was pretty frazzled when I got him. It's getting really glossy.

[roadie gal]

I also put a bit of flax seed oil in his food. His coat was pretty frazzled when I got him. It's getting really glossy.

In the winter both of my dogs tend to get dry skin. I give them salmon oil, about 1/2-1tsp in their food.

[mtbdarby]

Pam - you can buy the meat already ground with the bones in. My vet sells it in either patties or a 2 pound log. Your choice of beef, chicken or lamb (smells the worst!). They also sell a bag of rice with a packet of nutrients that aren't in the ground meat and instructions on how to cook it and store it.

Lisa - dogs don't get salmonella like we do but you do need to wash their bowls after feeding them raw food so bacteria doesn't grow.

I fed both dogs raw food but obviously didn't grind it myself. I barely had the time to cook it and freeze it since I'd make a big batch for both dogs and it only has a few days shelf life in the fridge. I did it for about a year and saw great improvements in my dogs by I feel the damage had already been done with commercial food. I stopped doing it after I lost one of my dogs and during the year I did, I supplimented with an all natural dry food. These days I use the all natural dry food with some people food - brown rice, veggies, fruits, and cottage cheese on occasion.

If you want the brand of the ground meat I'd be happy to make a call for you.

[PamNY]

If you want the brand of the ground meat I'd be happy to make a call for you.

Yes! I would appreciate that. One of the friends I mentioned in my post is planning a 13th birthday celebration for her bulldog. That's really old for a bulldog, and very inspiring to me. I might make the switch soon.

Now I have to fret about taking my dog food business away from the small, independent retailer who treats every customer like royalty (and delivers my food within 30 minutes, regardless of weather). She sells some frozen raw food, but it's pricey. Hope I can buy at least something from her.

Pam

[Andrea]

So after being inspired by this thread and a LOT of research, I fed my dogs their first raw meal this morning...

http://blog.brickhouseracing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dsc_8075.jpg

Turbo, polishing off a chicken wing :D

[lph]

This thread is fascinating. I'd never even heard of feeding raw before, as a concept. Will have to look into it once we decide on who is the one to come home and be our new kitty :)

[PamNY]

Hey, Turbo looks like he approves of this change. Lloyd's had a couple of raw meals and seems to agree.

I haven't yet summoned the nerve to feed a whole chicken wing; I've been cutting them up with poultry shears.

Does anybody feed fish? I can get lovely fresh fish trimmings for $2 a pound.

Pam

[Andrea]

Even my smaller dog can chomp right through a whole chicken thigh or wing in just a few minutes! It's funny, because it used to take Turbo about 20 seconds to inhale her kibble, but now she's forced to slow down & gnaw instead.

From what I've read you can feed them just about anything!

[mtbdarby]

Pam - sorry it took so long to respond. I haven't been good at checking in.

Anyway, the raw food I've used is called Natures Variety. Check www.naturesvariety.com

Hope that helps.

[andtckrtoo]

I just wanted to say that this thread has convinced me to go raw. I've been hovering on the edge for a while - fed a home cooked diet to my Eskie who had cushings and diabetes because the canned the vet recommended had no food in it, only isolates and other chemicals! She lived a lot longer than my vet thought she would. Jimmy benefited from that too but when Kimo died, I stopped and he started getting fat on the commercial food - even the high quality stuff.

So far he LOVES it. I started simple with chicken parts, and veggies mixed with egg and shell, but I'm slowly adding more things. This morning he had sardines with his veggies and lapped those up like it was nothing. So far his digestive track is happy. I had to laugh last night though because I was going out and wanted to get his food ready so that I could leave. I took the veggie mix and put it in his bowl, then got the chicken out and he started dancing around. I have never seen him so excited to eat in my life. Now, this is a dog who adores food, so that's saying a lot. I need to cut back on the amount - he's not finishing everything. So, I'll play around with that until I get it right. But I have to admit that it takes a lot less time and effort than I thought (much less than the home cooked), and it's a ton cheaper than buying the commercial done raw.

[tulip]

Christine, how did you determine how much to feed? (I haven't gone on line to do all the research I need to yet, but it's on my list!)

[andtckrtoo]

I was basing what I feed Jimmy on several different articles based on 55 pound dogs (he's 60, so I figured it'd be similar). But as each dog is different, it's really a matter of experiment. Jimmy was starting to look a little slimmer (he's probably about 5 pounds overweight, but as Aussies tend to gain weight easily, I want to keep that under control), but after the past two days, he's been bulking up again. I cut about 1/4 cup of what I feed him to see if that does anything. If not, then I'll cut a little more. But I don't want to starve the poor guy either, so I'll do it slowly.

[PamNY]

I've temporarily suspended my raw feeding experiment. I did try the Nature's Variety and it seemed excellent (though pricey). I've learned that I have to do lots more research to find affordable meat sources that will work for me (Manhattan apartment, no freezer, no car). There is a Yahoo group on NYC raw feeding that will probably be useful.

Another discouraging point: Lloyd was thrilled when I brought home kibble. It wasn't even dinnertime, and he's not the most food-motivated dog. I did a whole clicker session with kibble and he worked his little heart out for that stuff. I resisted calling him an ingrate, realizing he doesn't know how far I have traveled and how much I have spent. Sigh.

Pam